How Do You Learn a System?

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TristramEvans

TristramEvans

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A spin-off from the Outlaws of the Water Margin thread

Sleepyscholar of Shentian stated:

"Those who really want to know how the rules work, in my experience, will try to create a character in order to figure it out, and if I make the character generation more streamlined, as you suggest above, that should be possible, with reference to the Action chapter to fill in detail. I put character generation where it is, not so much from RPG tradition, but for this reason: for many people it's a 'route in' to the system."

My response was:

"I've put a lot of thought into how I learn RPGs, and I find that I do two things primarily before anything else - I take a look at the character sheet and I find the base task resolution mechanic. Then I look at combat, and from there go back and get into the nitty gritty. I couldn't in a thousand years say how universally applicable this approach is, but I do appreciate when a game puts a character sheet front and centre and it immediately gives me a visual indication of many parts of the rules."

As I stated, no idea how common my approach is, but it made me curious.

So how do you go about learning a system? Do you read a new rulebook cover to cover? Do you jump right into character creation? Do you jump around the rulebook to different sections, and if so - in what order?

And is there something RPGs could do - be it organization or otherwise, that would make them easier for you to learn the system?
 
Every single system that isn't rules-light should HAVE a rules-light writeup, prominently displayed at the front of the corebook. It should have a giant banner in great honking crimson letters averring "These are the rules you need to play the game: you don't have to read anything more. But if you like more crunch, everything else adds more flavor! (It's still OPTIONAL though!)"
 
Pretty much as the op. Character creation followed by base mechanic. I used to skim combat as most games over complicate it and I'd wing the rest.
 
Look at the pictures. Look at some tables. Character creation. Find someone that knows the rules. Trick them into running a campaign. Show up for the first session then immediately move to another city that has no internet. ;)
 
I''m very much in the "look at the character sheet first" camp. Then basic resolution as well as I will use it whenever I forget some specific rule (and it always make me wonder how some designers need half a page to tell you their system is d20+modifiers > Difficulty). Nowadays I also look at the monsters/NPC stats: big stat blocks are a huge turn off for me. These are great if you feed them to a computer or VTT, I'm just a human being, I don't care if Verilian the Magnificent, leader of the thieves' guild has 12 CON or Natural World at 37%.

I used to make a character and I should do it again, it doesn't help me learn the system but it makes helping the players making their characters that much easier.

If after my first session I immediately want to go back to the book and clarify some things, it usually means I really like that game.

On the other hand, the session may have been pleasant but if I have no urge to look at the book again to get a better grasp of the rules I usually resell it quite fast.

So: I need to know: how a character works, how NPCs work and the core mechanic, the rest I learn by running the game/trial and error.
 
If I am serious about learning a system, I take written notes, just like when I was at school. Restating a rule in my own words is a pretty good test that I have actually understood the concept and it helps memorizing it. The notes often become my personal cheat sheet I can refer to in play.

If this sounds all very structured and organised, it really isn't. The actual process is more of skimming through the book, feeling generally confused, making a cup of tea, looking a the pictures in the book a bit longer, read a bit more, still feel confused, check the lastest Dark Memes post on The Pub, reluctantly open a new Google Doc and start taking notes as I re-read key sections of the rulebook.
 
I look at the character sheet first too. It can tell you so much about a game before you look at anything else.

If it's got 30+ skills on it with space to write more then I know I'm not likely to like it. Conversely if it can be written on an index card then I'm more likely to pay attention.

I then take a look at the Table of Contents (should there be one), and jump to a section that interests me the most. These days that's likely to be the introduction or game/world overview, I know I can chuck 99% of systems and substitute it very easily, followed by any GM tools as I love these, especially if they are system agnostic and help me run the game.

It feels like a long time since I tried to learn/read a game though, mostly because of a lack of swashbuckling releases or anything else that interests me.
 
TristramEvans said:
A spin-off from the Outlaws of the Water Margin thread

"I've put a lot of thought into how I learn RPGs, and I find that I do two things primarily before anything else - I take a look at the character sheet and I find the base task resolution mechanic. Then I look at combat, and from there go back and get into the nitty gritty. I couldn't in a thousand years say how universally applicable this approach is, but I do appreciate when a game puts a character sheet front and centre and it immediately gives me a visual indication of many parts of the rules."
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As I stated in the same thread: "I suspect it's really popular among experienced roleplayers. That's how I learn new systems, and it's also how I explain them to people that haven't read the rules:thumbsup:."
BTW, after checking charsheet, base mechanic and combat, I usually try to create a character as well. After that I start checking other stuff as well and see how well the character created would deal with different tasks.
 
I jump straight to character creation and make a couple of different character types. Creating a character not only gives me an idea of the mechanics (maybe not true for every game) but often gives me a taste of the lore as well (if the mechanics are connected with the lore). If creating a character is difficult, its a fair indication that the rules are either complex or the books isn't that well laid out.

I then have the characters engage with combat with each other and try to figure out the combat system. Its probably at that point I read the rest of the book.
 
It's not a given that I'll look at the character sheet at all. I don't often use the official ones. For heavier systems, I'll usually try to read the book straight through once to give myself a baseline understanding of how everything fits together. Then I go back and practice character creation. Then I put a character or two (often one made to be a combat monster and the other explicitly not so) through mock combat to try and get a feel for the system in action.

The absolute best books from my perspective give you a quick rules summary, then character creation, then a detailed rules deep dive. Setting information can precede or proceed this, but if it comes first it really needs to be a broad strokes outline of the setting. For the love of God don't give me a setting deep dive before you've given me a clue as to how to play (looks angrily at Exalted).
 
I usually look for a summary of the core rules…like a “the basics” section or similar. A quick-start booklet or starter set can be great in this regard.

Then character sheets and/or character creation. As others have said, the sheet and what’s on it will be (or should be) what the game is about. It’s how the character will interact with the gameworld. There’s a lot that’ll be very clear from looking at a character sheet, and even more that may not be obvious.

One thing I’ll sometimes do that I haven’t seen anyone else mention yet is I'll check out videos about the game. Reviews or how-tos or even actual plays (if I can find one that’s bearable). These’ll give me insight not offered in the book itself. Along with this, I might post here or on other forums if I had some questions or wanted general opinions or best practices.
 
My stand in used to be create characters and then try a sample combat.

Hmm, most recently, learned (or more accurately been learning) Bushido. Before I started my PbP I read through the rules but didn't absorb much (was actually more focused on learning about the setting via Bushido and other samurai/ninja RPGs). A couple of the players had some previous experience and someone put together a Google Sheet to automate some of the calculations. Then we started playing (one of the players also started a campaign). I bailed out of the GM seat when I realized I just wasn't grokking the setting enough to run it and became a player. We've had some combats, used some magic and done other things. We are slowly learning the system.

I've also used forum reading, which helped a lot with Burning Wheel.

I'm actually not much interested in a rules light quick start. Yea, Burning Wheel sort of has that, but honestly, if I'm interested in the system as a whole, I'm interested because I want the crunch. So I'm more inclined to dive in pretty quick. And really these days, that's much more of what I do. Make characters and dive in.

Since my Champions days, I have a general policy of allowing players to change their characters after the first few sessions if they discover their character doesn't work well in actual play.
 
PolarBlues said:
If I am serious about learning a system, I take written notes, just like when I was at school. Restating a rule in my own words is a pretty good test that I have actually understood the concept and it helps memorizing it. The notes often become my personal cheat sheet I can refer to in play.

If this sounds all very structured and organised, it really isn't. The actual process is more of skimming through the book, feeling generally confused, making a cup of tea, looking a the pictures in the book a bit longer, read a bit more, still feel confused, check the lastest Dark Memes post on The Pub, reluctantly open a new Google Doc and start taking notes as I re-read key sections of the rulebook.
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This. For serious I need to learn it cases I take notes. I start with the basic resolution mechanics and a framework for how the game runs, and then I dive into characters based on that, after which I go back to fill in the rest of the rules. I take handwritten notes in two rounds, the first is a quick skim for mechanical stuff, and then I go back through the rules a flesh out and add to my notes as I go, ending up with something like an idiosyncratic SRD. I remember things better when I take notes, so while this seems a little OCD, it is the best way for me to learn a new system.
 
Pretty much what OP said. I kick things off by skimming the book and if I like what I see I head for the character sheet and basic task resolution mechanic. Then I will make a character, reading relevant rules along the way which usually includes combat. At some point the MRB gets the cover to cover treatment. A vitally important step for me is consulting message boards and blogs to learn rules nuances, best practices, and pitfalls to avoid.
 
I've learned a few systems in the past few years - D&D 5e, FATE and Scum and Villainy.

5e consisted of going through the rule book and trying to figure out how to do a character, then repeating a couple of times. Since then it's been mostly looking up stuff as I needed it, although I'm not DMing the game. The system has a lot of rules and specificity in the wording and it still rewards system mastery so there's quite a lot to learn, especially if you're playing with min-maxers.

FATE suffered from a lot of re-invented jargon and a fairly wordy rule book that didn't explain stuff well, in particular how to do aspects. I ended up doing quite a lot of online research to make sense of FATE. The system itself isn't terribly complex but there's a second-order abstraction to the way aspects work so you have to understand how to design aspects in order to make a character.

For Scum and Villainy I did some online research and found a couple of third party cheat sheets that summarised the system. I also got a copy of Blades in the Dark, which (IMO) does a better job of explaining the game mechanics than Scum and Villainy itself does.
 
I read the book then try to run something. The first few sessions are part of the learning experience, so sometimes we have to stop and review or figure things out. After that, if I really want to get into a system, I out together a GM screen or cheat sheet of the mechanics (or in the case of WWN, as a hack of OSE into WWN as a “guide” for my group).

I tried to skip that last step with Pathfinder 2e, and I think it contributed to a sense of not having mastered the system even after I ran it for a year, which contributed to my burning out on it. I may have been able to get away with that with OSE (which is well-written and organized), but PF2 is too verbose and bulky for that.
 
I'll start by skimming the resolution mechanic, then jump into character creation as well. At a table I have no problem showing up, asking a few questions, then create a character and learn by play.

If I own the game I will certainly read all the rules because that is just how I am and it is easy for me. If I like the game I often go so far as to set up an interactive spreadsheet to makes characters or create ready tables. So much info can be conveyed by table, I really wonder why RPGs seem stuck in conveying information via paragraphs and text.
 
xanther said:
I'll start by skimming the resolution mechanic, then jump into character creation as well. At a table I have no problem showing up, asking a few questions, then create a character and learn by play.

If I own the game I will certainly read all the rules because that is just how I am and it is easy for me. If I like the game I often go so far as to set up an interactive spreadsheet to makes characters or create ready tables. So much info can be conveyed by table, I really wonder why RPGs seem stuck in conveying information via paragraphs and text.
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Because of all the people on Internet who get a rash when they see a table...:shade:
 
My initial focus is generally on the character creation and task resolution sections. Those are the things I flip to first when deciding whether to buy a game or not.
 
I definitely like checking out the character sheet first, and character generation is always something I look at early. You can't get a handle on a game until you know what kind of characters exist in it. Beyond that, it really depends on what drew me to the game.

After that I'll usually take some notes, either from reference, or just as a way to process the information. If a game is on the crunchier side, I like to make a OneNote document that outlines the system. Most RPG books are designed more to teach you the system than to be useful table reference.

I've been running WFRP 4E off and on for a few years now, I am starting a new campaign, so I am putting together a OneNote doc that contains everything from the game. I'll use either screenclips from the PDF or just boil something down to an outline, as I have here.

1632236490305.png

The original entry in the book is fine for explanation, but I think my entry above is a lot more useful as table reference than having to parse this while the whole group stares at you, waiting.
1632236699017.png

Making detailed notes helps me spot things I missed when I simply read the book, and as I have OneNote on my tablet, I can call up anything at the table in seconds. It's a lot more useful than a GM screen.

If you look at the bottom of the left column, I also have a secret GM section, where I keep maps, NPC stats, adventure notes, notes taken during the session, etc.
 
As to what I do with a new system ... I read through character creation -- including all the options for races, archetypes etc -- completely. And over again. For the most part, that tells me much of what I need to know, and whether I want to bother with the system at all. I don't sweat things like core mechanics; every system has some method of resolution, and they pretty much do the same things. After that, I usually muddle through creating a test character.

After that, I skim the whole rest of the book.
 
For me character creation and basic rules (i.e. Core Task Resolution Mechanic, etc.) go first, followed by skimming through the rest of the rules little by little as the need or interest comes up, initially focusing more on stuff like skill entries, powers and such. If the book covers setting details and/or GM info that always goes last. I never read an TTRPG book cover to cover in one go and I consider it to be bad advise when it comes up in social media (I've seen it pop up a couple of times) because generally when people new to the hobby ask "What part should I read first?" they're not asking you for your geek creds or to show off how much you like reading a 400+ page tome. What they're really saying is "I'm not a nerd and I need to know how I can play this game FAST."
 
Flip through the book, look at the character sheet for a bit. Then head over to glance at stat's and skills and then move right over to the combat chapter and read that through while flipping back to other pages as needed. If the intitual combat section reads well for me, then I go back and read the book front to back.
 
Skim the book. Detail read about how the basic mechanic(s) work. Detail read the overall process of character creation but not necessarily every little ability/class. Create some basic function characters. Figure out how combat works. Run a sample combat by myself. Corral someone into playing the same combat while I run it. Set up an introductory game where we fumble through the rules.
 
One thing OWoD books used to do, that I really liked, was to present a scenario in "comicbook" form with the rules interpretations on the facing page. My favourite example of this is from the Vampire: The Dark Ages corebook:

DAV 1.JPGDAV 2.JPGDAV 3.JPG
 
Character sheet for sure and then looking at the central resolution mechanic(s). If I really like the game and it's something I think I might like to run, I usually look around for a form-fillable PDF character sheet that does a bunch of auto-calculations of derived characteristics and/or skills, am almost always disappointed at what's available, and then I set about making my own character sheet that handles most of the tedious calculations involved with character creation, which always cements the rules in my head. A few simulated combats is usually the last step to see if I and everyone I play with actually likes the way it feels.
 
Generally start reading from the beginning but dare not try and read in bed as I nod off shortly after... I have noticed as I get older my ability to soak in new ideas and rules grows more... 'stubborn'. If I can't grasp the game in the first 10-15 minutes of reading chances are it will need another go another time. For instance Icons, which seems like a very easy to learn and play game, has taken me years to grasp and I still don't know it thoroughly yet. Maybe I should run it then I'll *have* to break through that mental lethargy that clouds me.

In the 80s and early 90s I would easily soak up new games, apart from the odd exception. Traveller 2300AD, Shadowrun (especially the hacking rules), Spacemaster (I *got* Merp easy enough, and just about mangled my way through Rolemaster, but by god was it chewy. Spacemaster was page after page of text wall and it bored the life out of me trying to grasp it) and a few others were 'nope. Not happening.' games as far as I remember. There may have been others.

These days my 'really can't be arsed' barrier to learning new games is up almost immediately. Must be getting old :sad:
 
J Jenx I've noted similar issues now that I've gotten older. It's not just you. What has helped me a bit is if a rules system isn't grokking for me at first I'll put it down for a bit and come back at it later. I love reading and learning mechanics systems, even if I have no real plans to run the mechanics.

I've taken to attempting to diagnosing what might be causing me issues. Sometimes it's been the way the mechanics have been written, other times a change of vision (meaning I needed to update my reading glasses prescription). Other times in the case of say Mythras rpg books, it was font type and size etc. Usually the issues are correctable, sometimes not.

Recent example was the MYO mechanics, some of it I got some I didn't. I think some of it was due to how the mechanics sentence's were structured and the words used. An issue at times when reading some of the Free Leagues books for me with the translations from Swedish to English and the thought process. (not sure if I'm making total sense here but it has been a thing/issue for me at times)

Now though, after reading through the books after taking a few months break and reading some posts here and on Reddit plus some YouTube videos the latest read is much different. It's all making sense and I'm really liking the mechanics over all. Actually liking it so much that my plan this spring is to start up a Forbidden Lands campaign at the local gaming shop, pandemic depending of course.

The biggest issue for me is my eyes these days now that I need to wear glasses for reading. My eyes are sensitive to being tired. So I try to remember to blink often, look away into the distance and focus on some at some distance for a bit. Using eye drops, lightning etc all help me. I've been on a rules book mechanics tear the last few months and all of these things have helped me overcome most of the issues. Bad font size and type along with layout issues are beyond my power though. Lol
 
TristramEvans said:
So how do you go about learning a system? Do you read a new rulebook cover to cover? Do you jump right into character creation? Do you jump around the rulebook to different sections, and if so - in what order?
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Read character generation first. Task Resolution second. Then other parts as needed - depending on whether they'll come up in a campaign or not.

I don't think I've read a rulebook cover to cover in 30 years. I always skip around, and treat them more like study material than novels.
TristramEvans said:
And is there something RPGs could do - be it organization or otherwise, that would make them easier for you to learn the system?
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I always appreciate systems that use a kind of iconic character to illustrate chargen and task resolution. Harvey Walters, Cormac the Pict, Roark Garnet - I want examples throughout.
 
PolarBlues said:
If I am serious about learning a system, I take written notes, just like when I was at school. Restating a rule in my own words is a pretty good test that I have actually understood the concept and it helps memorizing it. The notes often become my personal cheat sheet I can refer to in play.
Click to expand...
I do the same sort of thing. Basically re-write the rules to suit how I understand them... and to cut out any clutter. A lot of times I'l also keep a running commentary of how the game compares to other systems I'm familiar with... sort of like a translation/critique that also calls out things I do not care for. Usually a separate document for each chapter/segment... so one for chargen, one for combat, one for each type of magic/powers/whatever.
Once I've gone through the book that way, ideally I'd make some characters and do some combats with them... because, for me, combat is always the most stressful part of running a game.
 
TristramEvans said:
J Jenx Acmegamer Acmegamer - how much does a detailed example of play in a game help or do you think would help with grokking a new system you're having trouble with?
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Detailed examples really help. My issue with say YouTube is finding actual good examples of that. A vast majority of the time when you try to find examples, the actual play is too heavy on role play and other elements, which in the right context are great.

You see this with new product Kickstarters often. Months of "actual play of the new", but when you go and take the time to watch them, you tend to learn very little of the games mechanics. Time that would have been better spent doing something else to learn the game mechanics in my opinion. I've had a rather crappy track record of finding a lot of great mechanics actual play videos honestly.

Here's the thing in my case, I can't focus on learning the rest of the rpg until I feel I have a comfortable understanding of the game's mechanics systems. Once I do, then it's all gravy. Reading the setting, learning the lore, plotting the demise err adventures etc.

So yeah, while I understand that for some, instructional videos might be boring, to me they would be a great help on grokking the system so I could get that out of the way and focus on the next phases of learning. I've occasionally found some on YouTube who've done that well.

For example there was a guy who was doing videos on breaking down the mechanics of Shadowrun at one point who I thought did an excellent job at making sense of the mess that is SR mechanics for example. Sadly when the most recent version came out it seems he gave up, don't really blame him SR is a mess, but I truly appreciated his adding clarity to the mechanics.
 
Quick skim.

Then I go through and run through bits I find interesting like character generation.

Then I go back and run bits I find difficult like combat. (I on;y do this if there's a serious chance of me running).

Now and again I'll run through a scenario if I've got one.

I learn wargames by playing them multihanded and it's a similar process.
 
I'll flip through the book then look at example characters/roster book if it's something like a supers game.
I'll then go to look at basic mechanic / character generation. If there's an example of play, I'll pour over that.

For some reason as I've gotten older, I find my brain not -getting- systems like I used to. Without good, detailed examples it's much harder these days to follow what's going on, especially those that stray further from traditional mechanics.

I really loved the example of play in the James Bond game, with the narrative on one column and the table play on the other column, or the example in 1st ed DC with Batman vs. Riddler. That was well done.
 
My method: Read chargen, see if it makes sense. Attempt to make a character. If I get through that, then look at the resolution mechanic and test the character against some things and see how that works. From there I read more of the rules to learn its tricks and such.
 
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