How The Kids Play Today

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I think that players, because they tend to be more casual gamers, flock to the biggest brands (DnD mainly, maybe PF and Call of Cthulhu secondarily), and that's one reason there is a DM shortage. For every other game, I think it's the opposite problem: people who are willing to GM but have a hard time finding players. I have a theory that indie games, as a whole, speak mainly to GMs and maybe aren't doing enough to attract players.
 
Is it really a rising narrative? I recall shitty DMs being quite fond of claiming GMing as some kind of highly skilled endeavour. That way they could discourage anyone else from DMing and maintain their little viking hat.

Even recently when my sister-in-law expressed interest in DMing in our old group her husband told her it was too difficult for her.
In my teacup, I'm brewing a small storm for those people:thumbsup:!
I think that players, because they tend to be more casual gamers, flock to the biggest brands (DnD mainly, maybe PF and Call of Cthulhu secondarily), and that's one reason there is a DM shortage. For every other game, I think it's the opposite problem: people who are willing to GM but have a hard time finding players. I have a theory that indie games, as a whole, speak mainly to GMs and maybe aren't doing enough to attract players.
Interesting. Care to tell me more:shade:?
 
Sure. DnD has an clear and attractive value proposition for players: You will live epic adventures and grow to become a kickass warrior/wizard/cleric/thief with extraordinary abilities (that are well supported by the rules). When I look at indie games, a lot of them sell themselves primarily on the strength of an interesting setting and/or innovative mechanics, i.e. things that resonate mostly with GMs and can even be a barrier for players due to lack of familiarity.
 
Sure. DnD has an clear and attractive value proposition for players: You will live epic adventures and grow to become a kickass warrior/wizard/cleric/thief with extraordinary abilities (that are well supported by the rules). When I look at indie games, a lot of them sell themselves primarily on the strength of an interesting setting and/or innovative mechanics, i.e. things that resonate mostly with GMs and can even be a barrier for players due to lack of familiarity.
Yeah D&D started with zero setting and a crappy hand drawn maps and crummy illustrations. I kind of think that whole aesthetic is more exciting to GMa and players. It clearly states this is not something to hard for you to do! B1 even said hey man stock this crazy dungeon however you want. Here's some cool ideas for random rooms. Why's this all here? Uh crazy powerful adventurers like you'll be did it. Youre 12, You want a cool pool room and a crazy series of corridors in your house right? I mean you'd put a secret door pretty much anywhere you could if you had the my money right? Well on D&D you can do that!!! Put a friggin ogre in the living room! Why? So other people can kill it!

That sells! What they didn't expect was even that was a high bar so they switched to modules fully stocked. Because that's how lazy we are when you get right down to it. Most just want the fight scene. Maybe some crazy interactions with a lizard man tribe or a rust monster.
 
I've been on a little journey, playing catch up with the VTT world. It's easy enough to understand how moving token over a map might work (even when my face-to-face gaming has been largely threatre of the mind anyway) but learning about VTT, the automation and how companies now sell virtual content targeting the VTT (both in terms of rules sets and adventures with preconfigured floorplans and extras) is entirely different ball game. Many thanks to @malc who demoed his Foundry setup. I've since messed around with a free Roll20 account just to get a feel for it.

But in all this, the big surprise is how widespread the Pay to Play model has become. We are talking anything from $10 to $25 per player, per session. And that's even for things like PbtA sort of games, so it's not like there is a vast overheard in terms of buying modules, tokens and expansions.

To put in context, if you search for scheduled games on Roll20 that are recruiting, there are 25 pages of results. If you narrow it down to those that by free to play, that falls to just 9 pages of results. I suppose this doesn't take into account games with established groups which I assume aren't looking for players, but it's still a lot. In the end, it's all supply and demand, nice work if you can get it, I guess. But I feels like a different world from that the gaming world I knew.
You are filtering out the games marked as not suitable for children. If you change that, you'll see that the majority of games advertising for players are in fact free to play. But it does still leave about 40% of the adverts being for paid games.
 
I've been on a little journey, playing catch up with the VTT world. It's easy enough to understand how moving token over a map might work (even when my face-to-face gaming has been largely threatre of the mind anyway) but learning about VTT, the automation and how companies now sell virtual content targeting the VTT (both in terms of rules sets and adventures with preconfigured floorplans and extras) is entirely different ball game. Many thanks to @malc who demoed his Foundry setup. I've since messed around with a free Roll20 account just to get a feel for it.

But in all this, the big surprise is how widespread the Pay to Play model has become. We are talking anything from $10 to $25 per player, per session. And that's even for things like PbtA sort of games, so it's not like there is a vast overheard in terms of buying modules, tokens and expansions.

To put in context, if you search for scheduled games on Roll20 that are recruiting, there are 25 pages of results. If you narrow it down to those that by free to play, that falls to just 9 pages of results. I suppose this doesn't take into account games with established groups which I assume aren't looking for players, but it's still a lot. In the end, it's all supply and demand, nice work if you can get it, I guess. But I feels like a different world from that the gaming world I knew.

I dunno, might just be the grognard in me, but I wonder if the style of playing described can't overall replace the experience of playing in person, an analog activity among friends, that is more of an appeal in the current age as an escape from online interaction, in the way way that the traditional board game industry is thriving. but maybe that's just my generation.
 
Is there actually a lack of GMs? What is the evidence?

I am genuinely wondering, not just being contrarian.
 
Online is a tradeoff. It doesn't have the real world interaction which is a bummer but you also don't have to wear anything more than pajamas.
I will say kids today don't seem to care one way or the other. My son's play both in person and virtual and I can't say they have a strong preference.
 
But in all this, the big surprise is how widespread the Pay to Play model has become. We are talking anything from $10 to $25 per player, per session. And that's even for things like PbtA sort of games, so it's not like there is a vast overheard in terms of buying modules, tokens and expansions.

To put in context, if you search for scheduled games on Roll20 that are recruiting, there are 25 pages of results. If you narrow it down to those that by free to play, that falls to just 9 pages of results. I suppose this doesn't take into account games with established groups which I assume aren't looking for players, but it's still a lot. In the end, it's all supply and demand, nice work if you can get it, I guess. But I feels like a different world from that the gaming world I knew.
Looking at this again, how many of these pay-to-play games get off the ground? If the majority of games looking for players are pay-to-play does that mean pay-to-play is popular or that lots of people want to do it but don't have players?
 
Looking at this again, how many of these pay-to-play games get off the ground? If the majority of games looking for players are pay-to-play does that mean pay-to-play is popular or that lots of people want to do it but don't have players?

Another thing to consider is that games which fill up are removed. If free games are filling up much faster that would leave a disproportionate number of paid-to-play games up on the board. I cannae be arsed to figure it out properly, but looking at a few of the listings currently on top, the free games are showing lots of activity in their application threads and the pay-to-play games, despite seeming to be there longer, aren't.
 
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Looking at this again, how many of these pay-to-play games get off the ground? If the majority of games looking for players are pay-to-play does that mean pay-to-play is popular or that lots of people want to do it but don't have players?

Sure. The example I provided was really just a rough and ready measure. The point remains, just a few years ago the notion of professional GMs was largely met with derision, now it is significant enough for Roll20 to explictly cater for it with filters and disclaimers. It was a joke, now it's a thing.
 
Looking at this again, how many of these pay-to-play games get off the ground? If the majority of games looking for players are pay-to-play does that mean pay-to-play is popular or that lots of people want to do it but don't have players?
There do seem to be a lot of pay-to-play games that seem to only have a couple of players. I suspect it's both; pay to play is reasonably popular but it's increasingly a buyer's market. So pay to play GMs are going to need to offer something extra to really stand out.
 
There do seem to be a lot of pay-to-play games that seem to only have a couple of players. I suspect it's both; pay to play is reasonably popular but it's increasingly a buyer's market. So pay to play GMs are going to need to offer something extra to really stand out.
I'd definitely look at the times offered before coming to any conclusions.
 
Online is a tradeoff. It doesn't have the real world interaction which is a bummer but you also don't have to wear anything more than pajamas.
I will say kids today don't seem to care one way or the other. My son's play both in person and virtual and I can't say they have a strong preference.
Yeah, we’re just starting year 3 of our 5E game online, which is 3 hours on Sunday mornings. Other than long weekends where people travel (or specific things like Mother’s Day), we rarely miss a session.

When we played face to face, it was once a month in concept, but due scheduling issues it was more like every 6-8 weeks. Tough to maintain any momentum playing that rarely.

Still, if I could get the players together to play, that would be my preference, but that’s not going to happen until we all retire.

My son is like yours, in that he has online games (with friends scattered at different universities), and an in-person campaign with some local friends. It’s purely about what’s feasible based on who is playing.
 
Yeah, we’re just starting year 3 of our 5E game online, which is 3 hours on Sunday mornings. Other than long weekends where people travel (or specific things like Mother’s Day), we rarely miss a session.

When we played face to face, it was once a month in concept, but due scheduling issues it was more like every 6-8 weeks. Tough to maintain any momentum playing that rarely.

Still, if I could get the players together to play, that would be my preference, but that’s not going to happen until we all retire.
I couldn't agree more. I prefer playing in person, but scheduling sessions for in person gaming is much harder than scheduling for online play.

I started to play online this very year, and my group is able to get together almost every week. We would never be able to do that if we played in person.
 
I've been on a little journey, playing catch up with the VTT world. It's easy enough to understand how moving token over a map might work (even when my face-to-face gaming has been largely threatre of the mind anyway) but learning about VTT, the automation and how companies now sell virtual content targeting the VTT (both in terms of rules sets and adventures with preconfigured floorplans and extras) is entirely different ball game. Many thanks to @malc who demoed his Foundry setup. I've since messed around with a free Roll20 account just to get a feel for it.

But in all this, the big surprise is how widespread the Pay to Play model has become. We are talking anything from $10 to $25 per player, per session. And that's even for things like PbtA sort of games, so it's not like there is a vast overheard in terms of buying modules, tokens and expansions.

To put in context, if you search for scheduled games on Roll20 that are recruiting, there are 25 pages of results. If you narrow it down to those that by free to play, that falls to just 9 pages of results. I suppose this doesn't take into account games with established groups which I assume aren't looking for players, but it's still a lot. In the end, it's all supply and demand, nice work if you can get it, I guess. But I feels like a different world from that the gaming world I knew.
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I play online occasionally, and I enjoy it, but for me at least it's not the same as playing in person. Maybe I'm old, IDK.
Nah, I ran a game recently over Discord. It was decent, but it was different, too:thumbsup:!

We just couldn't play it face to face because one of the group was in a different city for the whole week:shade:.
 
Considering how much a lack of experienced GM's affects every RPG companies bottom line, I would expect there to be a lot of help, training and information really pushing the "Be a GM!" idea...
I am running a workshop at Gen Con this year called "GM 101" that's aimed exactly there, on behalf of a company that is developing a GM campaign management software. We've essentially gamified game-running so novice GMs can explore the art of the GM with "GM coaches" on hand to give feedback and so forth. I am looking forward to seeing what kind of reception we get and how well it works. A sort of pilot effort last year seemed to work pretty well, so I have high hopes.

https://www.gencon.com/events?search=Gm+101
 
I am running a workshop at Gen Con this year called "GM 101" that's aimed exactly there, on behalf of a company that is developing a GM campaign management software. We've essentially gamified game-running so novice GMs can explore the art of the GM with "GM coaches" on hand to give feedback and so forth. I am looking forward to seeing what kind of reception we get and how well it works. A sort of pilot effort last year seemed to work pretty well, so I have high hopes.

https://www.gencon.com/events?search=Gm+101
Similarly, I'm planning to go to a local GM Meet and maybe explain how to run sandbox games without relying on a constant stream of premade material, if people are receptive...:shade:
 
The landscape of gaming has undergone a radical transformation since my high school days 30 years ago. Back then, online gaming was not even on the horizon. Our band of enthusiasts was a small group of self-proclaimed nerds, delving into an esoteric hobby that was little understood or appreciated, even in the large US city where I grew up. Interaction with the broader gaming world was limited to the occasional gaming convention—Hexacon in Phoenix was just getting started during my youth. Apart from that, our connections were largely confined to chats with hobby store employees, crossing our fingers that we'd find one who shared our passion for role-playing games.

Fast-forward 30 years and the status of gaming has dramatically changed. It's so mainstream that even late-night talk show hosts routinely discuss it. The mysterious and misjudged world of gaming, once associated with the Satanic Panic and Chick Tracts of the '80s and early '90s, has become commonplace. Today, everyone knows someone who plays D&D. A colossal online community stands ready to play, and these gamers aren't necessarily friends. Personally, the idea of running a D&D game for a group of strangers is not appealing, unless there is some form of compensation involved. Even when I used to run games at conventions, there was usually a symbolic book or similar reward for the game masters. The prospect of creating an intricate, shared story or game with unknown individuals can seem daunting without some motivating factor.

That being said, I must tip my hat to those brave souls who willingly run games for the sheer love of it, irrespective of whether the players are strangers or not, and without expecting any remuneration. These individuals are the unsung heroes of our gaming world.

The current state of gaming, I believe, is a combination of a significantly expanded audience and an increased demand for game masters. The balance has always tipped towards those who wish to play rather than run a game—this seems to be a fundamental aspect of human nature. In a capitalist free market, this creates opportunities for those willing to fulfill this demand for a price. Some may critique this as a degradation of the original spirit, others may celebrate it as progress, but I view it simply as different—an evolution in the grand tapestry of gaming.
 
Personally, the idea of running a D&D game for a group of strangers is not appealing, unless there is some form of compensation involved.
Well, obviously a lot of people agree with this:grin:!

The current state of gaming, I believe, is a combination of a significantly expanded audience and an increased demand for game masters. The balance has always tipped towards those who wish to play rather than run a game—this seems to be a fundamental aspect of human nature. In a capitalist free market, this creates opportunities for those willing to fulfill this demand for a price. Some may critique this as a degradation of the original spirit, others may celebrate it as progress, but I view it simply as different—an evolution in the grand tapestry of gaming.
Makes sense to me as well.
 
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