IPs You Cant Believe Don't Have An RPG

[TristramEvans]

I have no idea what a "Canadian Heritage Minute" is, but that sounds like a political issue, so of no interest to the forum. I've also never heard the argument that Superman, the character himself, is Canadian. He's always been depicted as having been raised in the rural Midwest States.

My point, however, still stands, you said that Canadians have "no cultural conception of superheroes", which is a silly statement when the entire genre was co-created by a Canadian, and there are multitudes of prominent and influential Canadian superhero comic creators. And superhero comics and media have always been just as popular in Canada as the US

 

[Endless Flight]

I'm not sure I buy that superheroes are just a North American (US & Canada) thing. If you look at Marvel movies, they all do exceptionally well in foreign markets. The Avengers made $623M domestically and $895M in foreign markets. Marvel pretty much treats their comic books as promotional material for the movies nowadays.

 

[daniel_ream]

[...]the entire genre was co-created by a Canadian

That's the propaganda. Joe Shuster was not a Canadian. He emigrated to the US permanently at the age of nine, and was in the US for longer than he ever lived in Canada before he created Superman. He has never identified as Canadian.

and there are multitudes of prominent and influential Canadian superhero comic creators

Yes, going to the US to find fame and fortune in the entertainment business is a longstanding tradition for Canadian artists. Now name three Canadian superheroes that were created in Canada by Canadian artists/writers, for a Canadian publisher for Canadian distribution.

And superhero comics and media have always been just as popular in Canada as the US

You're missing the point, at this point I suspect deliberately.

 

[daniel_ream]

If you look at Marvel movies, they all do exceptionally well in foreign markets.

They do, but that's more due to the very, very recent globalization of culture. Guardians, Krrish, Maharakshak, and the upcoming Netflix Turkish superhero show are all a direct result of the global MCU juggernaut.

When I say "superheroes are a uniquely American (okay, plus Mexico) phenomenon" it's because the genre could only have arisen in the US because its constituent tropes reflect long-term cultural attitudes, mores and traditional hero archetypes unique to the United States. Other countries occasionally import the notion when there's a big superhero blockbuster, but with very few exceptions there are no countries with a domestic superhero media industry.

 

[Stevethulhu]

They do, but that's more due to the very, very recent globalization of culture. Guardians, Krrish, Maharakshak, and the upcoming Netflix Turkish superhero show are all a direct result of the global MCU juggernaut.

I hate to say this, but globalisation of culture isn't that recent. And as for superheroes being an American exclusive, anyone who takes a cursory look at the Mahabharata or Ramayana. not to mention things like Greek and Norse myth, Journey to the West and so many other traditional epics can see that the superhero archetype isn't a new one by any stretch of the imagination.

And don't get me started on Japanese Spider-Man.

 

[Simon Hogwood]

I hate to say this, but globalisation of culture isn't that recent. And as for superheroes being an American exclusive, anyone who takes a cursory look at the Mahabharata or Ramayana. not to mention things like Greek and Norse myth, Journey to the West and so many other traditional epics can see that the superhero archetype isn't a new one by any stretch of the imagination.

I suppose this depends a bit on how narrow or wide you define "superhero archetype". Stories about human or human-like characters with abilities better than standard are indeed pretty much the oldest form of literature there is, but the cape-and-spandex mutant vigilante type is much more recent and, I agree, pretty much of American origin. While the latter is a subset of the former, I don't think it's a useless distinction to make - even Thor, when he first made the leap from myth to comics, had a secret identity and a colorful costume.

Returning to the original topic, given its origins as a thinly-plotted art book I'm a little surprised that there's never been a Dinotopia RPG.

The more I think about it, though, the more I wonder if it would actually work. Like many other Utopian* works, what little plot there is involves the character traveling around looking at things, which isn't exactly the best fit for a tabletop game. I know later artless books had more of a plot to them, but I'm fuzzy on the details. And then I guess there was that miniseries with the resource-hunting plotline, that might work.

*Which is pretty much what the setting is, Lee Crabb's surprisingly Greek-literate** protestations notwithstanding. Now that I think about it, Crabb is pretty much the closest thing to a typical PC the original stories had.

**When you break it down, Dino-topia literally means terrible place.

 

[Baulderstone]

That's the propaganda. Joe Shuster was not a Canadian. He emigrated to the US permanently at the age of nine, and was in the US for longer than he ever lived in Canada before he created Superman. He has never identified as Canadian.

I left Australia when I was eight, but those years were more than enough for it to be a significant component of who I am. Maybe Shuster's early years were less significant to him, maybe they weren't. In general though, I would say your early years count for a lot.

Anyway, rather than argue, let's all enjoy some fine Canadian content courtesy of SCTV.


As an Australian, I feel obliged to share some our fine TV. Here is Naomi Watts in an early TV appearance.

**When you break it down, Dino-topia literally means terrible place.

That is a wonderful observation.

 

[Endless Flight]

I read somewhere the formative years of human life leave the biggest impression, say like the ages of 4-8 or so.

I blame my father for turning me into a Star Wars nerd by taking me to see A New Hope when I was in those crucial years of development.

 

[Baulderstone]

I read somewhere the formative years of human life leave the biggest impression, say like the ages of 4-8 or so.

I blame my father for turning me into a Star Wars nerd by taking me to see A New Hope when I was in those crucial years of development.

I had the good fortune to be five when A New Hope came out, and I have good enough parents that they took me to see it in the theater at that age. I also have fond memories of my late grandfather patiently indulging me as I told him the entire story of the movie afterwards.

Those memories came in handy when my father watched the Game of Thrones season finale with my four year-old nephew a few weeks ago before I got around to watching it. My nephew was excitedly telling me about this awesome movie that Papa showed him. As ice zombies, dragons and a castle shaped like a wall" crept into the narrative I realized this story was spoiling the heck out of the episode.

An urge rose in me to tell him to stop, but I remembered that happy memory of telling my grandfather all about A New Hope, and I decided that hearing my nephews enthusiastic account was probably better than watching the actual thing anyway.

 

[Endless Flight]

Absolutely. He'll probably remember telling you all about it 40 years from now.

The other thing that really, really stuck with me around that era (I was born in 1973) is the Superfriends. It was really my first exposure to superheroes and I loved it. I would watch the cartoon on Saturday mornings and take my crayons and draw the characters on any paper I could get my hands on. I would then cut the characters out and have my own adventures with my paper action figures.

 

[Baulderstone]

Absolutely. He'll probably remember telling you all about it 40 years from now.

The other thing that really, really stuck with me around that era (I was born in 1973) is the Superfriends. It was really my first exposure to superheroes and I loved it. I would watch the cartoon on Saturday mornings and take my crayons and draw the characters on any paper I could get my hands on. I would then cut the characters out and have my own adventures with my paper action figures.

I loved that back then as well. That episode where the aliens discovered an Earth in ruins blew my little mind at the time.

 

[TristramEvans]

That's the propaganda. Joe Shuster was not a Canadian. He emigrated to the US permanently at the age of nine, and was in the US for longer than he ever lived in Canada before he created Superman. He has never identified as Canadian.

My thought on the matter is that being born and raised in a country is enough to legitimately say they are whatever-ian. I'm not sure there's any way to definitively say that, just as I don't see any legitimate proof you could offer to dispute that, so its probably an agree to disagree situation. At the same time, you seem to have a vested interest in declaring him not Canadian and downplaying that, which seems to extend beyond the context of just my disputing your initial assertion. So leaving Shuster aside, do you have any points to back up your claim that effectivelly dismisses the large role Canadian creators have played in the comics industry and the fact that superhero comics and media permeates the Canadian cultural landscape to a level at least close to equal that of the States and has since well before I was born?

I did not buy a single comic in the states until the early 90s., around the time my interest in superheroes began to wane. Meanwhile, I was raised on Spider-man, Batman, X-men, like most of my generation. The 60s Spiderman cartoon and Justice Friends were a staple of children's television. In fact, there was at least one Canadian-produced children's show that licensed Spider-man for live action segments. Superhero toys lined the shelves of Canadian Tire right next to Star Wars and He-Man figures. PSAs aired on TV on saturday mornings featured Captain America and the Hulk. I ate Superman brand peanut butter in elementary school. I was Spidey for Halloween 3 years in a row.


Edit: on retrospect, I don't want to harsh the vibe of the thread by this continuing exchange coming off as too confrontational. I'm not demanding you prove anything to me, its fine if we have differing opinions on this. Its just vikings in tights.

 

[Endless Flight]

Remember the Mego action figures back in the 70s? They were like six inches tall with fabric costumes and gloves that looked like oven mitts. I had a few of them but the strange thing about Batman was they made his bat-logo a sticker. Once you played with him for ten minutes, it would fall off. :rolleyes:

 

[TheophilusCarter]

Remember the Mego action figures back in the 70s? They were like six inches tall with fabric costumes and gloves that looked like oven mitts. I had a few of them but the strange thing about Batman was they made his bat-logo a sticker. Once you played with him for ten minutes, it would fall off. :rolleyes:

Ha, I had a few of those. I can't remember if Batman was among them, though.

 

[Baulderstone]

I had die-cast metal set of Batman vehicles: the Batboat, the Batmobile, and the Batcopter that all came in the same box. The Batmobile has a dull, rounded, metal "blade" that popped out of the front like a switchblade. After it rained one day, I decided to play with the Batboat in the flooded gutter, and I lost it to a storm drain. I've never entirely gotten over that loss. At least Pennywise wasn't around that day.

 

[The Butcher]

Absolutely. He'll probably remember telling you all about it 40 years from now.

The other thing that really, really stuck with me around that era (I was born in 1973) is the Superfriends. It was really my first exposure to superheroes and I loved it. I would watch the cartoon on Saturday mornings and take my crayons and draw the characters on any paper I could get my hands on. I would then cut the characters out and have my own adventures with my paper action figures.

Superfriends (Portuguese-dubbed weekday morning reruns) must have been my first exposure to superheroes too. That cartoon was pretty awesome!

 

[Endless Flight]

I loved that back then as well. That episode where the aliens discovered an Earth in ruins blew my little mind at the time.

There were so many awesome episodes. I loved the Challenge of the Superfriends with the Legion of Doom.

Other than those, my favorite was probably "Lord of Middle Earth", a slavish homage to Tolkien, although I didn't realize that until much later.

 

[TheophilusCarter]

At least Pennywise wasn't around that day.

Bite your tongue! I just got back from seeing IT, and may not sleep tonight ...

 

[TristramEvans]

Remember the Mego action figures back in the 70s? They were like six inches tall with fabric costumes and gloves that looked like oven mitts. I had a few of them but the strange thing about Batman was they made his bat-logo a sticker. Once you played with him for ten minutes, it would fall off. :rolleyes:

I still have my Mego Spider-man! And...Spock for some reason.

 

[Bunch]

I had die-cast metal set of Batman vehicles: the Batboat, the Batmobile, and the Batcopter that all came in the same box. The Batmobile has a dull, rounded, metal "blade" that popped out of the front like a switchblade. After it rained one day, I decided to play with the Batboat in the flooded gutter, and I lost it to a storm drain. I've never entirely gotten over that loss. At least Pennywise wasn't around that day.

Oh crap I remember that car! So cool at the time. Micronauts is another toy I can't believe doesnt have an RPG.

 

[TristramEvans]

 

[Dalekdad]

While arguing about how Canadian Joe Shuster was in a thread about IPs that don't have RPGs is the height of thread derailment, the links below summarize the frequently made (and compelling) cases for young Shuster's Canadian identity and influences.

Joe Shuster, Hal Foster: Canadian or Not?
Truth, Justice the Canadian Way

In terms of overlooked IPs, I'm surprised there's never been a solid Highlander rpg

 

[Endless Flight]

I was thinking of Indiana Jones, but that would really play better as a solo game because who wants to be Sallah? I might because I like his sense of humor, but that's not the point. Maybe a game that doesn't require a GM. Of course, at that point, it's almost like a choose-your-own adventure book.

 

[Baulderstone]

I was thinking of Indiana Jones, but that would really play better as a solo game because who wants to be Sallah? I might because I like his sense of humor, but that's not the point. Maybe a game that doesn't require a GM. Of course, at that point, it's almost like a choose-your-own adventure book.

The summer after the TSR version came out, I had just moved to a new town and still had only one friend to game with when school ended. Indiana Jones was perfect for one-on-one play. I've since completely forgotten the mechanics, but we had some epic action scenes and chases with that game.

The next school year, I was able to assemble a real group, and I completely abandoned the game, never looking at it again.

 

[Endless Flight]

The summer after the TSR version came out, I had just moved to a new town and still had only one friend to game with when school ended. Indiana Jones was perfect for one-on-one play. I've since completely forgotten the mechanics, but we had some epic action scenes and chases with that game.

The next school year, I was able to assemble a real group, and I completely abandoned the game, never looking at it again.

I own the WEG Masterbook Indiana Jones game. It's OK; it borrows a lot from D6, but it isn't as intuitive, and that's a problem. If they had just used D6 out of the gate, I think it would have sold better. They ended up doing a half-assed conversion in a sourcebook later, but it was too late.

 

[Baulderstone]

I own the WEG Masterbook Indiana Jones game. It's OK; it borrows a lot from D6, but it isn't as intuitive, and that's a problem. If they had just used D6 out of the gate, I think it would have sold better. They ended up doing a half-assed conversion in a sourcebook later, but it was too late.

I played in a game of it that a friend ran when it came out. It was a good game due to the GM, but the system really never did anything for me. I didn't hate it or anything, but I didn't have any urge to pick it up myself, and this was during a time when I bought a ridiculous amount of game books. D6 definitely would have been a better way to go.

 

[Llew ap Hywel]

I'd like to see games based around Donaldsons two series

Thomas Covenant (only read the first two series) and the Gap series.

I think behind the actual story he's telling, which I enjoyed, there's a couple of really interesting settings.

 

[Stevethulhu]

I'd like to see games based around Donaldsons two series

Thomas Covenant (only read the first two series) and the Gap series.

I think behind the actual story he's telling, which I enjoyed, there's a couple of really interesting settings.

The third series is really good. And gives a glimpse of the ancient past of the Land. But like many settings from literature, the Land is tied really tightly to the specific story being told in the Chronicles.

Still, it would still be interesting to see what could be done with the scant information that places the characters of the books don't visit.

 

[daniel_ream]

what little plot there is involves the character traveling around looking at things

Not only is this not terribly uncommon in fantasy works, it's not terribly uncommon to RPG sourcebooks, either. I've lost track of the number of settings I own that read like they would look awesome on screen, but RPGs aren't a visual medium and there's nothing for adventurers to do in the world.

Back to the OP: despite its popularity as a subgenre and the existence of GUMSHOE, there's no medieval murder mystery RPG. (Slice that as finely as you want; there's no Cadfael/Shardlake/Crowner John RPG) There have been supplements for other RPGs that try to cover the genre, but nothing dedicated.

 

[Ronin]

Back to the OP: despite its popularity as a subgenre and the existence of GUMSHOE, there's no medieval murder mystery RPG. (Slice that as finely as you want; there's no Cadfael/Shardlake/Crowner John RPG) There have been supplements for other RPGs that try to cover the genre, but nothing dedicated.

While I do agree wit this. If you're playing a fantasy medieval game it's hard to run a mystery. When characters have access to spells like detect lie, detect alignment, and such. Just a thought.

 

[daniel_ream]

While I do agree wit this. If you're playing a fantasy medieval game D&D it's hard to run a mystery. When characters have access to spells like detect lie, detect alignment, and such. Just a thought.

Fixed that for you.

I'm not talking about a generic fantasy medieval setting, either, I'm talking about actual medieval history murder mysteries.

This brings up a point I was mulling while reading the thread. It is an article of faith amongst RPG publishers that "straight" genre settings don't sell, which is why gonzo RPG settings are so common. I've seen at least one designer say, in essence, "players want kewl powerz and won't buy a game that doesn't have them".

While it's not true that there are no "straight" genre RPGs - I can think of several Western, Hard-boiled PI, Bronze/Iron Age, High Medieval, modern action, etc. RPGs off the top of my head, they're not "famous" and they don't sell very well. Watching Westworld last year I remember thinking it was charmingly retro in its assumptions that people would pay that kind of money for a historically accurate cowboy/samurai/Roman/medieval experience.

I notice that nobody has mentioned any number of IPs that seem on the surface to have a good fit for RPGs, like Bones, Crowner John, The Borgias, or even Herman's Head.

So is the assumption true? Is the only marketable setting for an RPG one with kewl powerz and gonzo mashups?

 

[Simlasa]

So is the assumption true? Is the only marketable setting for an RPG one with kewl powerz and gonzo mashups?

It seems true... and holds out over other media such as movies and video games... there are cool historical games like Crusader Kings... but the most of the blockbusters have some element of fantasy/scifi.

I like generally prefer relatively 'street level' games but still with a big dollop of weirdness... supernatural or otherwise.

 

[Tommy Brownell]

I notice that nobody has mentioned any number of IPs that seem on the surface to have a good fit for RPGs, like Bones, Crowner John, The Borgias, or even Herman's Head.

So is the assumption true? Is the only marketable setting for an RPG one with kewl powerz and gonzo mashups?

Maybe. I've been sitting here trying to figure out a good fit for a game based on something like The Shield or Justified, and there's not a ton of support out there. (I want cops without zombies, vampires or aliens...if I were a better writer, I'd write it myself.)

That said, there was a Leverage RPG, and it got around "kewl powerz" with little tricks you could learn based on your archetype. Streets of Bedlam for Savage Worlds was basically Sin City: A little cinematic, but no supernatural elements.

 

[TristramEvans]

I've played the Everyone is John RPG , which was enough to convince me a Herman's Head rpg is a bad idea.

Power fantasies sell, especially to a demographic that is known for being socially ostracized. The audience for a straight historical rpg is going to be older and more likely to respond to something presented in the manner of a "Murder Mystery Party" game.

 

[Tommy Brownell]

Murder mysteries in D&D5e aren't as rough as in the past. There is no Detect Lie (though there is Detect Thoughts). Detect Alignment no longer exists in the way it did in the past (you can detect Aberrants, Demons, Dragons, etc, but not "Good" and "Evil"). Throw in magic items meant to thwart things like mind reading, etc, and it still works...just changes the variables.

 

[TristramEvans]

If I was going to run a medieval murder mystery (and have in the past), I would probably stay clear of fantasy excepting the Old Warhammer world.

 

[daniel_ream]

most of the blockbusters have some element of fantasy/scifi.

I think that's a relatively recent phenomenon, though. Star Wars is an outlier if you look at movie grosses over time. On the Top Ten grossing list, only four are fantasy/SF (five if you count The Ten Commandments, let's not get into that). Since 2000 or so F/SF has utterly dominated the top spot, but it's more varied prior.

 

[Baulderstone]

While I do agree wit this. If you're playing a fantasy medieval game it's hard to run a mystery. When characters have access to spells like detect lie, detect alignment, and such. Just a thought.

First of all, you don't need to have all spell in the PHB available. Secondly. magic-users aren't always loaded up with investigation spells.

On top of that, being evil doesn't make you guilty of the crime being investigated, and neither does lying. Maybe the guy was sleeping with his neighbor when the murder was committed. You know he is lying, but not what the truth is.