Is Anyone Still Playing Vampire 5th Edition?

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TristramEvans

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If so, how has the system held up over longterm play?

What new supplements have come out, and how is the game line proceeding with Hite's departure?
 

Trippy

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Well, actually it was a point of discussion at the gaming table last night. Masks of Nyalathotep is drawing to a close after about 2 years of play, and we were considering what to play next - Vampire was a popular option.

The support via supplements has been slow as the license gets banded about - but what has come out is very good. Our group is considering The Fall of London campaign, which is basically Harry Potter in reverse, where you attempt to summon the big bad methuselah vampire - Mythras (à la Voldemort).It looks a good campaign, although the players might not want to be tied to the pregens. The other options are the old favourite, Chicago by Night which is well done, but I’d prefer a European chronicle, myself, and the yet to be released Cults of the Blood Gods (which actually interests me the most).

There was a recent announcement about the WoD development moving forward here:


I’m a bit ambivalent. Justin Achilli is an old hand, and Karim Muammar was the guy that innovated most of V5s mechanics. It looks like an enthusiastic development team, and they’ll be using the Vampire Companion as a freebie to rope in their fanbase again I think. The next scheduled book, apparently will be a Sabbat book, which shifts the direction a bit away from the Second Inquisition book (that I was hoping for). Note that Justin Achilli was mostly responsible for Vampire Revised, which was a bit of a kitchen sink edition for me. I was actually confused as to how many Clans there are now going to be - with three meant to be added with the Companion, seven in the core, and another four already added in other supplements. So that is....14? Is this right?
 

Malleustein

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Is Vampire 5th Edition worth anything to someone who already has a couple of shelves full of World of Darkness books?

This is in no way supposed to be a passive aggressive question. I know a few people who have it, but none have been able to articulate why I would want to buy and referee it over what I already have.

This isn't a "sell me on...", just a genuine request for what makes it unique or especially worthy of my time.

For sake of openness, I have everything for the original Vampire: Dark Ages (my absolute favourite), and all the books I like for Vampire: the Masquerade 2nd Edition. So if the answer needs something for comparison, that's where I am coming from when I ask.
 

Trippy

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Is Vampire 5th Edition worth anything to someone who already has a couple of shelves full of World of Darkness books?

This is in no way supposed to be a passive aggressive question. I know a few people who have it, but none have been able to articulate why I would want to buy and referee it over what I already have.

This isn't a "sell me on...", just a genuine request for what makes it unique or especially worthy of my time.

For sake of openness, I have everything for the original Vampire: Dark Ages (my absolute favourite), and all the books I like for Vampire: the Masquerade 2nd Edition. So if the answer needs something for comparison, that's where I am coming from when I ask.
Well, in my view, V5 is like a ‘Remastered' version of V1, as opposed to V20 say, that feels like a ‘Greatest Hits’ compilation.

It presents newly fashioned rules about Hunger which changes the dynamic of gameplay to match what has always been written about in the text of the game, and otherwise the systems as a whole are more polished than they ever were (combat, for example, doesn’t go on indefinitely with small incremental successes after rolling buckets of dice). The game feels more dangerous in play for the PCs, in a ‘personal horror’ way - you are fully aware of playing a monster in this game.

In terms of background and setting, V5 hones in on the Camarilla vs Anarch central conflict, and introduces a more potent human threat in the form of the Second Inquisition. Supplements are set to expand on this, but the game as a whole feels more focussed. Obviously, it also makes some effort to make the game feel like it is set in the 21st century, rather than the 1990s.
 

Malleustein

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Well, in my view, V5 is like a ‘Remastered' version of V1, as opposed to V20 say, that feels like a ‘Greatest Hits’ compilation.

It presents newly fashioned rules about Hunger which changes the dynamic of gameplay to match what has always been written about in the text of the game, and otherwise the systems as a whole are more polished than they ever were (combat, for example, doesn’t go on indefinitely with small incremental successes after rolling buckets of dice). The game feels more dangerous in play for the PCs, in a ‘personal horror’ way - you are fully aware of playing a monster in this game.

In terms of background and setting, V5 hones in on the Camarilla vs Anarch central conflict, and introduces a more potent human threat in the form of the Second Inquisition. Supplements are set to expand on this, but the game as a whole feels more focussed. Obviously, it also makes some effort to make the game feel like it is set in the 21st century, rather than the 1990s.

Cheers for that.

It doesn't convince me to rush out and buy it, but it's the first time I've read anything concise and clear about the game.

I don't know that they are selling points for me personally, except perhaps a new Hunger mechanic, which I hear people like.
 

The Mad Hatter

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I'm currently a player in a Vampire V5 game. Specifically a The Fall of London campaign. We have only played two sessions so far, and most of the first session was spend on character creation. I'm liking it so far.

Malleustein Malleustein this thread on here goes into details about the differences between previous Vampire editions and V5.

Vampire nth Ed thread
 

Malleustein

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I'm currently a player in a Vampire V5 game. Specifically a The Fall of London campaign. We have only played two sessions so far, and most of the first session was spend on character creation. I'm liking it so far.

Malleustein Malleustein this thread on here goes into details about the differences between previous Vampire editions and V5.

Vampire nth Ed thread

Cheers.

That thread's looong though, and I'm lazy. I was just wanting the bullet points, which Trippy provided.

Kidding aside, I will give it a look when I've got spare time on my laptop.
 

The Mad Hatter

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Cheers.

That thread's looong though, and I'm lazy. I was just wanting the bullet points, which Trippy provided.

Kidding aside, I will give it a look when I've got spare time on my laptop.

It's okay. The link goes to page 3 of the thread there most of the talk about V5 begins.
 

Doc Sammy

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I see Ravnos are coming back. Doc Sammy Doc Sammy must be pleased

I'm glad the Ravnos are coming back but V5 still sucks. Still don't trust Achilli either.

Unless they put the Gangrel and Brujah back into the Camarilla and put the Lasombra back into the Sabbat and also bring back the Giovanni (fuck the Hecate) while reverting the Assamites and Followers of Set to their proper names, I'm still not forgiving Nu-WW.

Plus the mechanics seem kinda borked and even more punitive than the original Humanity meter if the previews from 2017-2018 are anything to go by.

But hey, baby steps. Maybe this will get better over time, who knows?

*Insert obligatory scathing comments about the punk subculture here*

Well, in my view, V5 is like a ‘Remastered' version of V1, as opposed to V20 say, that feels like a ‘Greatest Hits’ compilation.

Hard disagree.

In my personal opinion, V5 is a pale imitation of V1 at best and a smug pretentious mockery at worst.

At the risk of mentioning some hot-button issues, V5 is like the Disney Star Wars to V1's Original Trilogy and Requiem's Prequel Trilogy (and we're gonna leave it at that)

Or to use a less potentially risky analogy, V1 is like the 1968 original Night of the Living Dead where it's a bit rough around the edges by today's standards but still holds up.

V5 is like Russo's shitty "30th Anniversary Edition" of the movie or the "Night of the Living Dead 3D" remake from 2007.

Alternately, V5 is the Twilight to V1's Lost Boys.
 

TristramEvans

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I'm glad the Ravnos are coming back but V5 still sucks.

Unless they put the Gangrel and Brujah back into the Camarilla and put the Lasombra back into the Sabbat and also bring back the Giovanni (fuck the Hecate) while reverting the Assamites and Followers of Set to their proper names, I'm still not forgiving Nu-WW.

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TristramEvans

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I always wanted to play a Kiasyd. That's probably the only thing that would entice me to play in a Vampire game of any edition these days

(except Vampire: The Dark Ages. I'd play the hell out of that one any chance)
 

Doc Sammy

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We still have the older editions, so that's good at least

I always wanted to play a Kiasyd. That's probably the only thing that would entice me to play in a Vampire game of any edition these days

(except Vampire: The Dark Ages. I'd play the hell out of that one any chance)

Vampire: The Dark Ages is awesome as fuck

Do you prefer the original Vampire: The Dark Ages from 1996 or the Dark Ages: Vampire from 2000?
 

TristramEvans

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Vampire: The Dark Ages is awesome as fuck

Do you prefer the original Vampire: The Dark Ages from 1996 or the Dark Ages: Vampire from 2000?


The original. I heard the system was cleaned up for the scond edition, but visually it didn't grab me. The original is one of the most beautiful RPG books I've ever owned, a real work of art.

Though if I were to run it now, I'd be tempted to look at what Hite did with 5e's system and see if I could adapt it.
 

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The original. I heard the system was cleaned up for the scond edition, but visually it didn't grab me. The original is one of the most beautiful RPG books I've ever owned, a real work of art.

Though if I were to run it now, I'd be tempted to look at what Hite did with 5e's system and see if I could adapt it.
Did you get the 20th Anniversary Edition?
 

Séadna

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No. Was it any good? I heard there were a lot of changes made
I enjoyed it as it is beautifully produced and goes into plenty of detail on the period. However that said I never played the original and it has plenty of the usual issues Onyx Path books have* but to a lesser degree than most of their books. On balance my guess would be you wouldn't like it.

* too much fiction, overwritten in general, authors rarely get into the head of a character different from themselves
 

Doc Sammy

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What is it about the rules you don't like? Like Trippy I thought it has the best match between the rules and the supposed themes yet.

The "supposed themes" really get overstated by later authors and by the more pretentious side of the White Wolf fandom. The "personal horror" of V1 was little more than a marketing tagline as opposed to the thematic "One True Way" that V5 deems it to be.


But at this point, I'm just clobbering a horse that's been dead so long it's now fossilized
 

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The "supposed themes" really get overstated by later authors and by the more pretentious side of the White Wolf fandom. The "personal horror" of V1 was little more than a marketing tagline as opposed to the thematic "One True Way" that V5 deems it to be.
Most of the V1 core presents a lot of personal horror elements though and there are attempts at mechanically supporting personal horror. It was originally supposed to be Anne Rice the roleplaying game as such.

But even if you leave personal horror aside to me V5 just has more streamlined rules for powers, blood consumption and other aspects of being a vampire (heightened senses and so on). Even little things like humans having different flavours of blood that charge you in different ways. To me V1 had a lot of stuff that didn't really fit like a slow D&D inspired combat system. The way the hunger dice work matches Vampires from myth better even ignoring the Anne Rice element.
 
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TristramEvans

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I enjoyed it as it is beautifully produced and goes into plenty of detail on the period. However that said I never played the original and it has plenty of the usual issues Onyx Path books have* but to a lesser degree than most of their books. On balance my guess would be you wouldn't like it.

* too much fiction, overwritten in general, authors rarely get into the head of a character different from themselves

Yeah, I don't think it's possible to go back to the 90s for me, unfortunately, too much detritus in the years hence and I've changed as a person. I've held onto my Changeling The Dreaming books out of nostalgia alone, but even when I flip through them, all I have is thoughts about how I'd do it different - to the point I'd pretty much rewrite the entire game.

But hey, that's what Phaserip is for, for me. My section on the supernatural has my own reinvention of the tropes that made up the World of Darkness, with my taste for the original folklore added back in. I've even got my own "Vampiric bloodlines" based on various versions of Vampires from across Europe, and a workable individual system for them, where Karma/Arete is replaced with "Blood" for vampires, "Miasma" for ghosts, etc.
 

Trippy

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The "supposed themes" really get overstated by later authors and by the more pretentious side of the White Wolf fandom. The "personal horror" of V1 was little more than a marketing tagline as opposed to the thematic "One True Way" that V5 deems it to be.

But at this point, I'm just clobbering a horse that's been dead so long it's now fossilized
Any marketing that occurred with Vampire in the earliest edition was fairly circumstantial. Even the iconic cover with the red rose on marble was a last minute inclusion because they couldn’t afford the cost of the actual cover art. Vampire and the WoD may have become a commercial phenomenon, but the reason why any of it was originally written, primarily by Mark Rein-Hagen, was because it was attempting to show how a roleplaying game could be ‘art’. Now, some may (and do!) call that pretentious, but the ‘personal horror’ motif was an earnest design goal of the original game. In my view, it was only fully realized with effective mechanics when they introduced the Hunger mechanic in V5.
 

tenbones

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I tried selling my group on V5... they wanted none of it. We honestly tried to sit together and make it work - it simply did take. Everyone was much more interested in the 20th Anniversary addition.
 

Trippy

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I tried selling my group on V5... they wanted none of it. We honestly tried to sit together and make it work - it simply did take. Everyone was much more interested in the 20th Anniversary addition.
Well, every group is different. I find 20th Anniversary Vampire to be a dead weight at the table - all the systems are just so clunky and tired.
 

tenbones

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Yeah I wanted to like V5. Didn't click with the group-sniff test. 20th was *really* easy to get into. I knew immediately what to toss and what to focus on. My group - half of which never played Vampire preferred it.
 

Trippy

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Yeah I wanted to like V5. Didn't click with the group-sniff test. 20th was *really* easy to get into. I knew immediately what to toss and what to focus on. My group - half of which never played Vampire preferred it.
Well, I’m not going to argue with your own experiences, but V20 did nothing for me or my group. I’d say that Vampire over the years was one of my formative gaming experiences and V5 recaptured that for my group. Like I say, I found V5 to be a ‘remastered’ version of the game, but V20 was a 'greatest hits' album. As such, it reflects my own taste in music where I generally avoid compilation albums.
 

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You can't really compare V20 and V5, because they are quite different beasts. V20 is like the ultimate lexicon of Vampire: The Masquerade from the 90's early 2000. It's in my opinion, more of a toolbox to make your own Vampire game out off.
V5 is more sort of a reboot of the game. It streamlines a lot of things and have some completely new stuff too. I really like the Hunger mechanic for one thing.

I think I've said it before on here, but the ultimate Vampire game for me would be a mix of all the Vampire games.
I would make a list of clans and disciplines based on V20. Replace the sect system with the covenants from Requiem. The mechanics would otherwise just be V5.
 

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My preference for V5 is basically that its rules feel like rules for being an actual mythic or gothic vampire where as older editions felt like you were the vampire class in a fantasy game (mechanically, the fiction was different) due to the complex combat rules, powers, feats etc.

Like The Mad Hatter there are certain things I like from the other games. Requiem's approach that vampires are actually not all the same thing but a bunch of blood drinkers from different mythologies that have come together under the title "vampire" was cool. Same with its covenants being more interesting than the Camarilla-Sabat stuff like the Scientific-Buddhist Ordo Dracul.
 

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I tried selling my group on V5... they wanted none of it. We honestly tried to sit together and make it work - it simply did take. Everyone was much more interested in the 20th Anniversary addition.

Your group definitely has patrician tastes then

The Virgin V5 vs. The Chad V20

older editions felt like you were the vampire class in a fantasy game (mechanically, the fiction was different) due to the complex combat rules, powers, feats etc.

You say that like it's somehow a bad thing?
 

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You say that like it's somehow a bad thing?
Well it's that even if you wanted that other games did it better, the WoD system just wasn't very good even for fantasy/action vampires. If you prefer that GURPs Masquerade would be better. There's even homebrew LotFP classes that'd be better.
 

tenbones

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While it was fun to revisit WoD... I was *deep* into Vampire (and all the other splats) back in the day. And that went right up through NWoD 1st edition up to Demon. But it's lost a lot of luster for me. This return to 20th Anniversary even, while it was enjoyable, it felt hollow. V5 felt absurd in its assumptions of post-Gehenna.

And maybe that's the problem? The Gehenna event *happened* and it didn't really feel like it matters. Not really liking the system either (and trust me 20th Anniversary mechanics while cleaned up, were doing us no real service either). My tastes have clearly changed, and while I'll always have love for 1e/2e WoD... I'm at the point where I'd rather just create my own cosmology that steered well clear of anything from White Wolf just for pure palate-cleansing needs.

It's not to say there aren't great elements to Vamprie (there most certainly are), it's just so "beaten to death" that it felt rote. And when you divert away from those assumptions - it felt silly to me. So it's clear it's time for me to move on and do something different within the "vampire" genre. (i.e. it's not a mechanics thing - its really just WoD seems tired to me as a whole.)
 

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Well it's that even if you wanted that other games did it better, the WoD system just wasn't very good even for fantasy/action vampires. If you prefer that GURPs Masquerade would be better. There's even homebrew LotFP classes that'd be better.
This reflects our experience with VtM 2e. We were coming from Shadowrun and Gurps back in the day and went head on on the Vampire gothic punk wave. We found the system too clunk and not really fun for the kind of action scenes we were familiarized in those other games. Eventually we dropped it.

As a genre-emulation afficionado, I think 5e is a great reboot, and I'm happy that there is the 20th anniversary edition around for those who prefer stick to the old metaplot and superpowered mode.
 
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Doc Sammy

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Well it's that even if you wanted that other games did it better, the WoD system just wasn't very good even for fantasy/action vampires. If you prefer that GURPs Masquerade would be better. There's even homebrew LotFP classes that'd be better.

GURPS Masquerade is pretty awesome
 
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