[Kickstarter] Demon City by Zak Smith aka. Sabbath

[Voros]

I'm not usually one to Kick the Start but there have been a few projects that caught my interest recently and I figure I may as well grab the pdf at least.

Mike Evans of DIY RPG Productioms (Hubris, Gathox Vertical Slum) is publishing Zak Smith's (aka. Sabbath) next game DEMON CITY, a not-OSR horror game with Tarot cards as the mechanic although with an optional dice hack for those who don't want to tempt the Devil with his tools.

 

[Trippy]

It looks very creative.

 

[Necrozius]

Looks gorgeous and fun but 70$ CAD (minus shipping) is way too high for me for a single book that I'd probably mostly use as reference (and a coffee table book).

 

[Muchacho]

Awesome art. I'm getting a Shin Megami Tensei Nocturne vibe out of it. Makes sense ?

 

[Voros]

Looks gorgeous and fun but 70$ CAD (minus shipping) is way too high for me for a single book that I'd probably mostly use as reference (and a coffee table book).

I’m just getting the pdf.

 

[Ladybird]

Looks and sounds good, but it's not a product I'm USD 60+ interested in, so I'll probably pass.

 

[The Butcher]

Awesome art. I'm getting a Shin Megami Tensei Nocturne vibe out of it. Makes sense ?

I’m getting more of a “Zak’s OSR-powered WoD heartbreaker” vibe but you could be right.

 

[Dumarest]

Never liked his aesthetic and his personality would preclude giving him my money even if I did.

 

[Doc Sammy]

Never liked his aesthetic and his personality would preclude giving him my money even if I did.

Pretty much what this guy said.

 

[TristramEvans]

View attachment 3473

Looks like the 1980s threw up all over that page

So when did Zak start calling himself "Sabbath"?

 

[Ladybird]

So when did Zak start calling himself "Sabbath"?

That's his... acting... name.

 

[TristramEvans]

That's his... acting... name.

*spit take*

 

[Ladybird]

*spit take*

Something like that, yes.

 

[Trippy]

I always make my final decision about what to get on a Kickstarter when the campaign ends. It gives me a few weeks to ponder on it, so I may just end up with the PDF. That said, I like anarchic arty books anyway - so, this is as much of an appeal as the game. With regards to the game I don't quite know enough about it - it seems to operate on D10s or Tarot, which in turn means the Tarot system may have application to other D10-based systems, like WoD games. It's a bit of Sod's Law that this comes out the same time as a new John Tynes-penned Delta Green supplement and Jonathon Tweet's new version of Over The Edge on Kickstarter. I prefer not to back Kickstarters these days...and I have a limited budget to spend.

I also don't really know enough about Zak Smith personally to make comment but I prefer to keep art seperate from the artist (it's why I think Repulsion, Rosemary's Baby, Chinatown and even the underrated The Ninth Gate are excellent movies despite the director). The whole anti-Zak thing seems to be a lot of claim and counterclaim to me anyhow, so I'd personally judge him on his personal conduct in what I know rather than online hearsay. He's often mentioned alongside RPGPundit - who I do have a view on, based on first hand experience - but Zac seems to be a different, albeit still divisive personality.

 

[TristramEvans]

Well, there's an anti-Zak thing that's kinda political, so I prefer we don't go there. But there's plenty of other fair criticisms, wether it's that his art just isn't to everyone's taste or his...somewhat abrasive...online interactions. If we can keep any talk to the latter and ignore the former that'd be for the best.

 

[Voros]

An artist being a bit of an asshole is hardly news. I don't really care, hell one of my favourite novelists is the anti-semitic and pro-fascist genius Celine. Compared to him the worse of the worse in RPGs are small-time.

 

[TristramEvans]

An artist being a bit of an asshole is hardly news.

True enough.

If people like his art/graphic design, I say good on you.

 

[Dumarest]

An artist being a bit of an asshole is hardly news.

I think he's a boring, predictable artist as well as an a-hole.

 

[TristramEvans]

I think he's a boring, predictable artist as well as an a-hole.

And that's a fair assessment as well.

Well, I don't think his art is bad, he just very obviously follows the Baron Storey school which became very trendy in the late 80s/early 90s, so it looks dated to me. If that was intentional with the material, I might find it a bit charming, as I'm playing with retro designs in my own RPG. But I haven't gotten the impression that's the case. But hey, his Alice in Wonderland D&D thing was quite well-regarded, so he's pleasing somebody, which is the best any artist can hope for.

 

[Dumarest]

And that's a fair assessment as well.

Well, I don't think his art is bad, he just very obviously follows the Baron Storey school which became very trendy in the late 80s/early 90s, so it looks dated to me. If that was intentional with the material, I might find it a bit charming, as I'm playing with retro designs in my own RPG. But I haven't gotten the impression that's the case. But hey, his Alice in Wonderland D&D thing was quite well-regarded, so he's pleasing somebody, which is the best any artist can hope for.

There are real, live Rob Liefeld fans too.

 

[TristramEvans]

There are real, live Rob Liefeld fans too.

He use to sell millions of comics a month based on his...talent.

 

[Dumarest]

Googled Barron Storey, gotta say this Zack Sabbath does seem to be aping him quite a lot.

 

[Endless Flight]

Black Sabbath is cooler.

 

[Necrozius]

Googled Barron Storey, gotta say this Zack Sabbath does seem to be aping him quite a lot.

Also some Bill Sienkiewicz mixed in there.

I dig Zak's style a great deal. I also like his writing (I have Red and Pleasant Land + Frostbitten & Mutilated). But I'm getting strapped for cash!

 

[Dumarest]

Black Sabbath is cooler.

True.

 

[Voros]

Black Sabbath is cooler.

BS are cooler than 99 percent of anyone.

 

[Necrozius]

I am a happy father: my 6-year old son's favorite song ever is N.I.B.

(skip to 0:41 if you aren't interested in the solo)

 

[Trippy]

True.
View attachment 3493 View attachment 3492

The first photo is like they are all smirking at a dirty joke involving a chicken. The second is like they are all being told off for it.

Oh, and the best Black Sabbath album is Master of Reality.

 

[Justin Alexander]

Well, there's an anti-Zak thing that's kinda political, so I prefer we don't go there. But there's plenty of other fair criticisms, wether it's that his art just isn't to everyone's taste or his...somewhat abrasive...online interactions.

On the non-political front, Zak got caught impersonating RPGNet moderators on reddit. That's when I gave up on giving him the benefit of the doubt when it comes to online interactions.

But he makes awesome shit.

 

[TristramEvans]

True.
View attachment 3493 View attachment 3492

I have a hard time looking at those pics and not hearing "But this button goes up to eleven"

 

[TristramEvans]

Also some Bill Sienkiewicz mixed in there.

Indeed, Dave McKean is also part of that tradition.

 

[Ladybird]

On the non-political front, Zak got caught impersonating RPGNet moderators on reddit. That's when I gave up on giving him the benefit of the doubt when it comes to online interactions.

But he makes awesome shit.

No, that was his friend. Who uses his computer. At his house. And talks like him. And is into the same hobbies. And has the same grudges. And likes defending Zak S online. And hasn't logged into Reddit since all this became public.

 

[TristramEvans]

No, that was his friend. Who uses his computer. At his house. And talks like him. And is into the same hobbies. And has the same grudges. And likes defending Zak S online. And hasn't logged into Reddit since all this became public.

Yeeeeeah...that was a case when I think just not saying anything would have been far less damning.

 

[Stevethulhu]

So when did Zak start calling himself "Sabbath"?

I wonder if this guy knows some penny-ante games guy is using his name. And considering he's best friends with Ozzy and managed by Sharon, Zak S might have a problem.

(I know his name is Jeff, AKA Zakk Wylde. Bu thte Zakk Sabbath thing has been a Black Label Society thing on and off for a couple of years now.)

 

[Justin Alexander]

"Zak Sabbath" has been his porn name since 2006.

Zakk Sabbath named their cover band after a porn star* in 2014.

* Not actually what happened.

 

[Just Another Snake Cult]

Does anyone know how the whole Tarot card-based system works? Is it a touchy-feely symbolic interpretation thing like Everway* or an actual numerical mechanic (i.e something like "Card X adds +1 to your ability, Card XX adds +2, but Card XXX is an automatic success and Card Y is an automatic failure")?

*A now utterly forgotten game I actually really liked.

 

[A Fiery Flying Roll]

An artist being a bit of an asshole is hardly news. I don't really care, hell one of my favourite novelists is the anti-semitic and pro-fascist genius Celine. Compared to him the worse of the worse in RPGs are small-time.

Yeah, I don't bedgrudge people for making decisions on whatever they see fit. But if I was going to chuck out art because the creator behaved like a dick that's half my music collection out the window.

 

[Simlasa]

Yeah, I don't bedgrudge people for making decisions on whatever they see fit. But if I was going to chuck out art because the creator behaved like a dick that's half my music collection out the window.

I'd really empty out my house if I was to weed out all the stuff made by well-known assholes.
If I had psychic powers and could read the minds of all the folks who make stuff, with that same 'purity' impulse... I'd probably be left standing naked in a field somewhere.

But there are a few people who, for whatever reason, just rub me the wrong way... to the point of distraction... so I just make sure to buy their stuff on the second-hand market.

 

[Stevethulhu]

"Zak Sabbath" has been his porn name since 2006.

Zakk Sabbath named their cover band after a porn star* in 2014.

* Not actually what happened.

The one with the manager who stopped Tony Iommi from using the name Black Sabbath adter he'd been doing just that for 30 years since Ozzy left the band would probably win that particular knife fight.

Though I think it's safe to say that an indie RPG designer and minor porn star is not getting Sharon Osbourne's attention any time soon.

 

[Ladybird]

Though I think it's safe to say that a for gr8 RPG designer and minor porn star is not getting Sharon Osbourne's attention any time soon.

He's big in the art world as well, but under the same name as his RPG work.