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Must be something unique to video game KS
Another thing I've never backed
Another thing I've never backed
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Most Kickstarters that I have backed had preview PDFs scoured over by backers looking for errors, and many of them have solicited playtest feedback as well. On average, the final results have been more carefully considered than most of the supplement treadmill books we used to get in the '80s and '90s.Kickstarters are kind of just a continuation of current trends to rush something out and make money then polish it later and charge for dlcs.
Fair point, you would know more on that than I.Most Kickstarters that I have backed had preview PDFs scoured over by backers looking for errors, and many of them have solicited playtest feedback as well. On average, the final results have been more carefully considered than most of the supplement treadmill books we used to get in the '80s and '90s.
I think Faylar was right, goes back to Ultima IX.Must be something unique to video gameKS
Then Monte Cook Games came along and ruined the trend...On average, the final results have been more carefully considered than most of the supplement treadmill books we used to get in the '80s and '90s.
Evil Hat just publicly announced - in light of the Kickstarter news mentioned earlier - that they are "reassessing how their platform aligns with our own company values".
Much ado about nothing? Or the first sign of the industry attempting to move away from the platform?
Indigogo seems to have a bad reputation with gamers.
Steve Jackson Games ran an Ogre Indigogo campaign earlier this year. Indigogo seems to have a bad reputation with gamers.
I don't know Evil Hat, are they trendsetters in the industry or have any sort of clout?
Well, I personally find them a bit....suspicious. Don't like some of their policies, and the tendency to see rejected Kickstarters end up there. But I don't know if my opinion reflects that of anyone outside myself. I thought a few weeks back someone earlier in the thread said they only had good experiences with them.
Publishers of Fate Core.
That would be me.
Hmm, well known at least, but I'm not sure if it's going to go anywhere. For a lot of indy RPG creators, KS is the most viable way of finding funding. Is this story tending or whipping up twitter mobs at this point?
Were they RPG projects you backed? How was the experience for you overall in comparison to Kickstarter?
I've seen it going around various political circles I'm in. People aren't happy with KS over it, not sure I'd call it a mob though; it's the people you would expect having the opinions you would expect them to. There are no surprises here.Hmm, well known at least, but I'm not sure if it's going to go anywhere. For a lot of indy RPG creators, KS is the most viable way of finding funding. Is this story tending or whipping up twitter mobs at this point?
As a rule, I avoid Twitter, and this is the only forum I visit anymore...and I'm in kind of an RPG bubble over on Facebook...so I can't say for sure.
Yup. I haven't had a bad experience...but I do my due diligence as with Kickstarter. By the nature of the beast, I've backed fewer IndieGogo campaigns, but I've had a 100% success rate. It's also the popular choice for publishers in countries not allowed to use Kickstarter.
Yup.
"Project creation is currently available to individuals in the US, UK, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, the Netherlands, Denmark, Ireland, Norway, Sweden, Germany, France, Spain, Italy, Austria, Belgium, Switzerland, Luxembourg, Hong Kong, Singapore, Mexico, and Japan who meet the requirements below.
*People under the age of 18 can launch projects only in collaboration with an adult or guardian that meets these listed requirements. The adult will need to verify their identity, enter their banking information in project build, and assume the responsibilities for fulfillment of the project, listed in our Terms of Use.
- You are 18 years of age or older.*
- You are a permanent resident of one of the above listed eligible countries.
- You are creating a project in your own name, or on behalf of a registered legal entity with which you are affiliated.
- You have an address, bank account, and government-issued ID based in the country that you're creating a project in.**
- If running your project as an individual, the linked bank account must belong to the person who verified their identity for your project.
- You have a major credit or debit card.***
**Citizens of the E.U. are welcome to use a government-issued ID from any E.U. country (such as an E.U. passport, etc.). Note: your project must be run in an E.U. country that is eligible on Kickstarter.
***Citizens of Canada must have a major credit card."
I dunno man, at a certain point a person can be so risk-averse that they hinder themselves by missing out on opportunity. Driving is a leading cause of death but you still drive to work every day, right?In some cases, the extended length of time in the process itself leads to further complications. I've been involved in campaigns where creators have had mental illness, blindness or even died. These are entirely unforseeable events.
Well, yes, but this is precisely why people keep jumping at campaigns that then go on to be problematic.I dunno man, at a certain point a person can be so risk-averse that they hinder themselves by missing out on opportunity. Driving is a leading cause of death but you still drive to work every day, right?
Most of the problematic Kickstarters I've experienced are nothing to do with the personal rep of the creators. They have everything to do with uncontrolled scaling up of their business model and the difficulties of meeting all demands in a bulk effort. The most well meaning, high integrity creator can still end up flat-footed. In some cases, the extended length of time in the process itself leads to further complications. I've been involved in campaigns where creators have had mental illness, blindness or even died. These are entirely unforseeable events, as are the multitude of mistakes made by the best of people.
Moreover, it is increasingly the case that reputable companies like Evil Hat, Chaosium and others are basically choosing to just not do Kickstarter campaigns for their products.
It's what most people use it for. Which is why some are upset when things change.As far as I'm concerned, Kickstarter is just a pre-order storefront. I'm not really wanting to argue it or try to convince anyone otherwise.
No, but they are...hmm, how to say this...one of the gaming companies that is very public with their beliefs and values.I don't know Evil Hat, are they trendsetters in the industry or have any sort of clout?
Yeah, if you need to make a comparison to the video game industry, a more apt one would be an early access game, which is close to what Baulderstone is describing.Most Kickstarters that I have backed had preview PDFs scoured over by backers looking for errors, and many of them have solicited playtest feedback as well. On average, the final results have been more carefully considered than most of the supplement treadmill books we used to get in the '80s and '90s.
That would depend entirely on what state Kickstarter is incorporated in. In many states you can fire an at-will employee for any reason at all, or no reason. In what state is Kickstarter incorporated?... fired for attempting to organize a union, which is illegal...
No, I roll the same way.Just read that Kickstarter's internal reports say 9% of Kickstarter projects fail to deliver rewards and 8% of dollars pledged went to failed projects:
Kickstarter Fulfillment Report
The largest independent analysis to examine the Kickstarter community and project fulfillmentwww.kickstarter.com
"Project backers should expect a failure rate of around 1-in-10 projects, and to receive a refund 13% of the time."
Those % seem really high to me, but I wouldn't back a Kickstarter anyway on account of I prefer to see and inspect a product before I buy it. Does that seem high to you?
The odds seem about right to me. But then I've joined dozens of KS without any of them failing to deliver.Just read that Kickstarter's internal reports say 9% of Kickstarter projects fail to deliver rewards and 8% of dollars pledged went to failed projects:
Kickstarter Fulfillment Report
The largest independent analysis to examine the Kickstarter community and project fulfillmentwww.kickstarter.com
"Project backers should expect a failure rate of around 1-in-10 projects, and to receive a refund 13% of the time."
Those % seem really high to me, but I wouldn't back a Kickstarter anyway on account of I prefer to see and inspect a product before I buy it. Does that seem high to you?
I'm assuming those are the numbers for Kickstarters that actually fund. If you count failure to fund, the numbers are probably a lot higher.Just read that Kickstarter's internal reports say 9% of Kickstarter projects fail to deliver rewards and 8% of dollars pledged went to failed projects:
Kickstarter Fulfillment Report
The largest independent analysis to examine the Kickstarter community and project fulfillmentwww.kickstarter.com
"Project backers should expect a failure rate of around 1-in-10 projects, and to receive a refund 13% of the time."
Those % seem really high to me, but I wouldn't back a Kickstarter anyway on account of I prefer to see and inspect a product before I buy it. Does that seem high to you?
I’ve never had any problems with Indiegogo.IndieGoGo is a bit controversial because a) they tend to use "flex funding", which means they take the money out even if the goal isn't met and b) they are less prone to cancelling, ah, projects deemed "problematic" by some of the more political vocal folks in creative fields.
Publishers of Fate Core.
That would be me.
And there we go again...
Yes, they're right to want something for it. But the nature of KS is such that they might not get it, and there might be nobody wrong about that - especially with less-experience designers, where you are taking a risk...possibly because you want a given game to be created.
And if that worst-case scenario happens? Then they must choose whether to act entitled, or not.
I think it's safe to say that we are not using Entitled to mean people with legitimate complaints... but people who are actually acting entitled. We kind of hashed this a bit already.It's not entitled to express concerns when something you spent money on hasn't delivered. It is the literal opposite of entitlement. It is in fact quite justified. It doesn't matter whether one can expect all kickstarters one backs to deliver, lack of delivery is still a perfectly good reason to express dissatisfaction. Edit to remove bit that was not appropriate
Part of the confusion may be that "entitled" now means two mutually contadictory things:
(1) to believe yourself to be inherently deserving of privileges or special treatment.
(2) to have a legal right or a just claim to receive or do something.
Why did she have to disparage the venerable C64?!?!I missed this a few days back, but Olivia Hill posted a great Twitter thread about this fuckup. She gets very... Olivia Hill, as is her brand, but basically this project is pretty fucking dead and she's ended up just as screwed as the rest of us because she was banking on the work.
I've been following the discord chat so you don't have to but frankly it looks about what you'd expect.