Lace and Steel - Australian Swashbuckler Game by Paul Kidd

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Not to be confused with the rather remarkable exploitation film Steel and Lace, this is Lace and Steel, a swashbuckling RPG game from the late 80s with some (non-standard) fantasy elements by Paul Kidd, who went on to write rather bizarre novelizations of White Plume Mountain and D1-3 modules.

It uses cards for the swordfights, tarot for chargen and has an interesting sounding system for interpersonal relationships and even repartee.

Released by The Australian Games Group as a boxed set, later republished as a book minus the intro adventure. The art by Donna Barr is quite nice.

Anyone have this or ever played it? Looks intriguing. Unfortunately no legal electronic version is available.

LS1e.jpeg
 
Read about that one...anthropomorphic animal swashbucklers...not really my thing. Tell us how you like it.
 
I have a copy! It's really neat. The amthromorphic characters are satyrs, harpies and centaurs, by the way, not furries.

Typing this while on the go, will write more later or as soon as I can.
 
I have a copy! It's really neat. The amthromorphic characters are satyrs, harpies and centaurs, by the way, not furries.

Typing this while on the go, will write more later or as soon as I can.

Yes, please do. I'm not interested in the fantastical aspect but would be curious to know about the gameplay.
 
Not to be confused with the rather remarkable exploitation film Steel and Lace, this is Lace and Steel, a swashbuckling RPG game from the late 80s with some (non-standard) fantasy elements by Paul Kidd, who went on to write rather bizarre novelizations of White Plume Mountain and D1-3 modules.

It uses cards for the swordfights, tarot for chargen and has an interesting sounding system for interpersonal relationships and even repartee.

Released by The Australian Games Group as a boxed set, later republished as a book minus the intro adventure. The art by Donna Barr is quite nice.

Anyone have this or ever played it? Looks intriguing. Unfortunately no legal electronic version is available.

View attachment 619
I owned it for a while. It looked pretty cool, but I didn't have any players that were interested. Admittedly, I had a lot of other things I was running as well, so I never really campaigned hard for it either. A couple of years later, I had a big move that led to a game purge, and as something I had never played or had plans to play, it didn't make the cut.

It is one the games I have sold that I still get pangs of regret about never playing though.

It hit at a time when the people I gamed with more into playing CoC, WoD and Kult. Over the Edge was the most whimsical game in rotation. Lace and Steel just didn't come along at the right time.

I have a copy! It's really neat. The amthromorphic characters are satyrs, harpies and centaurs, by the way, not furries.
Yes, the supernatural aspects of the setting are drawing on Greek mythology. Nothing furry about it. If I recall, they'd be pretty easy to remove from the game.
 
I have a copy! It's really neat. The amthromorphic characters are satyrs, harpies and centaurs, by the way, not furries.

No, they're furries, in the sense that they're there mostly to satiate the female fans of the game who fantasize about centaur sex.

The game is a mixed bag of mechanics, like a lot of good ideas in a blender. Character generation is not actually Tarot based, it's straight up roll-and-assign plus calculated stats;the Tarot element is really no different than WW's Nature/Demeanour mechanic (which tarot card you draw determines small bonuses/penalties to the stats you already rolled to reflect your personality).

The swordfighting system seems underdeveloped and is too dependent on the specific cards and card deck that comes with the game. For a game that already uses Tarot (although barely) it seems odd they couldn't align the swordfighting rules to a Tarot deck. It's been done elsewhere. The Repartee system just re-uses the swordfighting system. Still, there's a lot of good ideas in there in a kind of larval stage.

As late as 2011, OEF PDF copies were available from Golden Elm publishing, but their RPGNow store seems to be defunct.
 
Odd reading of the furries phenom which seems to be mostly guys, but okay...
I know nothing about it, nor do I want to. I don't even understand "cosplay." But I'm an old crank who thinks Zoners shouldn't be allowed on our beaches.
 
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Thanks for the feedback on the game, the mechanics do sound like a dog's breakfast but this is a late 80s game so that is a bit par for the course (with honourable exceptions of course). I like the idea of a card mechanic for sword fights though.
 
Ack life is complicated. I've been looking for an excuse to reopen that box and figure out the rules for a few days but I've been so drained.

Some highlights from the last time I poured over the game's contents:

- the cards, which seem really cool, have a needlessly complex equation that you have to make to determine if you succeed or miss. I may misremembering, but it's more involved than THAC0.

- I like the parts about Tarot, but it seemed limited to backround info during character creation. Felt like a wasted opportunity, considering that cards are used for duelling (blades and social). As a writer, I would have tried to find more uses (random generators, for example).

- as wary as I've always been about furries, the Greco- near human races never came across as 'squicky' at all to me. However, I never intended to include them, were I ever to run it. Not sure why.

- I love the artwork: all done by the same artist (I forget her name).

All in all, it was very unique and memorable (although not all the specifics about the rules, obviously).

I will crack it open this weekend: I'm excited to looking it over again (and I owe this thread more details).
 
Thanks for the feedback on the game, the mechanics do sound like a dog's breakfast but this is a late 80s game so that is a bit par for the course (with honourable exceptions of course). I like the idea of a card mechanic for sword fights though.
If your looking for a card mechanic for sword play. You should take a look at "En Garde!". While not an RPG, it has an interesting card dueling mechanic. I've knocked around the idea of it as a subsystem for for a homebrewed swashbuckling game.
 
What's really too bad is that this game isn't in PDF on DriveThruRPG... I was running a search and came across mention of a PDF pack the author had out - and there was evidently a website for the game at one time in 2003 - but both have disappeared. More's the pity. :cry:

Later!

Harl
 
I loved Lace and Steel's fencing mechanic but otherwise, it was kind of the same old stuff otherwise. Since I don't know about furries, AT AL (sarcasm) L. Younger women these days are into it a bit, but like gaming is typically the older generation had a more notable male population (or trans.) Considering most people would consider me a furry, and I'm part of the fandom of anthropomorphic characters (not costumes, not sex, since that's actually a minority.) I like games like Justifiers, Ironclaw (though it so needs a simpler system), and others. I also like anthro art (although 98 percent of what I like is PG-13 at best.)

I even remember someone trying to do their inspired by Tailspin game over on another forum. I always want to do a pulp-anthros game.

Anyway. Lace and Steel had very little to do with that community at ALL but on a comic (obscure) one called Dream something? Which was a very centaur-heavy renaissance style time like the game. I don't think it was ever nearly adult is Monster-Girl, or Bronie stuff either. The comic or the game.

Meh, it's really just labeling stuff 'Furry' that doesn't all fall under the same umbrella except by the vaguest connection. Sort of like S. John Ross's porn logic of games (which could sub in manga/anime/U.S. comics instead of porn.) http://rolltop-indigo.blogspot.com/2021/01/porn-logic.html In short, it's not all about the same thing, it just has similar trappings, like anime can tell an animated story about /anything/ cooking, tennis, etc. It's just that the more mundane stuff isn't popular in the U.S. as the other kinds which may be fantasy/sci-fi/high weirdness anime.

I mean Free Fall for example has an "anthro/uplifted" wolf, and she's a core character, but it's not about her being "furry", is simply a way to tell a semi-realistic sci-fi setting that has humor and yet is also a pretty hard science comic.
 
I loved Lace and Steel's fencing mechanic but otherwise, it was kind of the same old stuff otherwise. Since I don't know about furries, AT AL (sarcasm) L. Younger women these days are into it a bit, but like gaming is typically the older generation had a more notable male population (or trans.) Considering most people would consider me a furry, and I'm part of the fandom of anthropomorphic characters (not costumes, not sex, since that's actually a minority.) I like games like Justifiers, Ironclaw (though it so needs a simpler system), and others. I also like anthro art (although 98 percent of what I like is PG-13 at best.)

I even remember someone trying to do their inspired by Tailspin game over on another forum. I always want to do a pulp-anthros game.

Anyway. Lace and Steel had very little to do with that community at ALL but on a comic (obscure) one called Dream something? Which was a very centaur-heavy renaissance style time like the game. I don't think it was ever nearly adult is Monster-Girl, or Bronie stuff either. The comic or the game.

Meh, it's really just labeling stuff 'Furry' that doesn't all fall under the same umbrella except by the vaguest connection. Sort of like S. John Ross's porn logic of games (which could sub in manga/anime/U.S. comics instead of porn.) http://rolltop-indigo.blogspot.com/2021/01/porn-logic.html In short, it's not all about the same thing, it just has similar trappings, like anime can tell an animated story about /anything/ cooking, tennis, etc. It's just that the more mundane stuff isn't popular in the U.S. as the other kinds which may be fantasy/sci-fi/high weirdness anime.

I mean Free Fall for example has an "anthro/uplifted" wolf, and she's a core character, but it's not about her being "furry", is simply a way to tell a semi-realistic sci-fi setting that has humor and yet is also a pretty hard science comic.
Amusingly I like the system of Ironclaw 2e, the setting I can take or leave:thumbsup:.
I also like anthropomorphic characters since TMNT, which for me is "since I was a kid". Free Fall is my preferred gaming webcomic, even though I'm really behind, because I read in big bursts:grin:!

But these days games with those tend to attract a crowd which contains way too many people that I'd prefer not playing with...
Thus, I tend not to play them, reskin them for humans if the mechanics appeal (what I'd probably do with Ironclaw) or run them for strictly "invitation-only" groups:shade:.
 
I can understand that. Been there myself. I like Ironclaw, just a tiny bit more streamlining might help it, but combat can be pretty brutal. I mean for me, the point is playing a "person" who may look like a fox, or whatever. But that's me, I don't make it weird or anything. Mind you I've had a friend run it and he sort of got lost pre-Covid with life stuff, and when he came back one of his players and I don't get along anymore (I was running a Gamma World game for him, and my dog was DYING of cancer, so I canceled a game, one or two sessions while I dealt with grief and trying to save her. but he blew up over it because gaming is more important than something I love dying apparently.)
 
I can understand that. Been there myself. I like Ironclaw, just a tiny bit more streamlining might help it, but combat can be pretty brutal. I mean for me, the point is playing a "person" who may look like a fox, or whatever. But that's me, I don't make it weird or anything. Mind you I've had a friend run it and he sort of got lost pre-Covid with life stuff, and when he came back one of his players and I don't get along anymore (I was running a Gamma World game for him, and my dog was DYING of cancer, so I canceled a game, one or two sessions while I dealt with grief and trying to save her. but he blew up over it because gaming is more important than something I love dying apparently.)
Well...I can see why you wouldn't get along:thumbsup:.

I mean, that's pretty insensitive from him. And yes, that's coming from me, who doesn't pretend to understand all the mushy stuff:shade:!
You probably remember that from other threads:evil:.

Anyway, back to Ironclaw - you know I like brutal combat and no system ever has made me say "too brutal", right? So me and the Sanguine's house system were made for each other*, given the levels of injury wounding system and the fact that the default defense in most iterations** is counterattacking:grin:!
Ah, the things that make me feel at home when reading a system:heart:!

Amusingly, it's also got many social skills, which I've been drifting away from in recent times. But as always, I can play systems with or without them.

*Just don't tell my wife:tongue:!
**Like Usagi Yojimbo and Myriad Song, with the latter being probably my favourite - especially since it's not split in 3 separate books like Ironclaw.
 
Well...I can see why you wouldn't get along:thumbsup:.

I mean, that's pretty insensitive from him. And yes, that's coming from me, who doesn't pretend to understand all the mushy stuff:shade:!
You probably remember that from other threads:evil:.

Anyway, back to Ironclaw - you know I like brutal combat and no system ever has made me say "too brutal", right? So me and the Sanguine's house system were made for each other*, given the levels of injury wounding system and the fact that the default defense in most iterations** is counterattacking:grin:!
Ah, the things that make me feel at home when reading a system:heart:!

Amusingly, it's also got many social skills, which I've been drifting away from in recent times. But as always, I can play systems with or without them.

*Just don't tell my wife:tongue:!
**Like Usagi Yojimbo and Myriad Song, with the latter being probably my favourite - especially since it's not split in 3 separate books like Ironclaw.
I wonder what Myriad Song is like? Start a new thread on it? Tell us about it?
 
No need: it's a SF game and setting using the same system as Ironclaw (well, with variations). Interesting races, and surprisingly for a Sanguine product, has humans as a playable race:grin:!
 
No need: it's a SF game and setting using the same system as Ironclaw (well, with variations). Interesting races, and surprisingly for a Sanguine product, has humans as a playable race:grin:!
Well, are the aliens good? What's the technology base like? What's it /about/?
I have questions and I didn't want to derail Lace and Steel too much. Since I did long ago own copy and actually played it.
 
Well, are the aliens good?
Good and bad aliens are a matter of taste. I mean, are the Aslan feline space samurai, or a furry race? Both? Neither? Depends on the group:shade:?

Weird. Most of them are weird. Not surprising since they say it's meant to emulate the newer SF...I'd say it was a success, and a welcome change in my book.

What's the technology base like?
Don't remember the technology. Most people in the setting don't necessarily understand much of it, either. There has been a technological decline...:devil:

What's it /about/?
I'm not the one you should ask that. To me, it's about playing a SF game...no more, no less.
What the author means we should be doing...I simply don't really care unless it's made intrusive via mechanics. It's not, so I'm fine:grin:!
But you can actually ask CRK how much I ignore what the author think we should be doing:tongue:!
Authorial intent<My Intent. And I'd have it no other way. Your* SF game doesn't permit it? I label it "useless", never run it and go back to playing/running Cepheus Engine, M-Space, CP2020, Fates Worse Than Death, D6 Space, Eclipse Phase...or Myriad Song, for that matter:thumbsup:!

*General "you".
 
Good and bad aliens are a matter of taste. I mean, are the Aslan feline space samurai, or a furry race? Both? Neither? Depends on the group:shade:?

Weird. Most of them are weird. Not surprising since they say it's meant to emulate the newer SF...I'd say it was a success, and a welcome change in my book.
Well, they're really Chanur, with numbers filed off--so I keep thinking of the series whenever Aslan comes up. Mostly I consider good aliens are "not seen in a novel series, then numbers filed off that I can tell." Or just Elves and Orcs in spaaaace! (Which I don't mind when they just DO that and say so.)

I mean admittedly my space swashbuckling game has the Seelie and Unseelie Sidhe, and all those things encompass trolls, dwarves, etc. But that's the point they're fey, and with fey, image, is intentionally everything. Seemings after all are part of the concept as is glamour.
 
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