Lamentations of a Badly Done Hellboy Adaption

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All of the main monstrous characters are totally different from each other with little overlap in capabilities.

The only difference between a few of the BPRD agents is their superpowers (and that's only a few of them, there are many non-powered agents) - otherwise, their skills and abilities are mostly comporable

Take away Johann's physical state what's the difference between him and Kate Corrigan or Bud Waller?
 
The agents are more similar, I agree. Hopefully, they go with only 3 or so classes to keep it simple. You can actually keep the core of D&D rules without classes and some games have done it.

I think 5e is one way to go but not the only way. Cinematic Unisystem, Savage Worlds, Atomic Robo all could have worked. The result quality would be in the details, though only 1 of those 3 has any audience and it's not huge. On the other hand, 5e isn't a license to print money, either. Sure there are millions of players, but there are also thousands of products so it's hard to get seen, though a licensed entity is a big boost. I get the impression that most D&D players are interested in D&D and things that can work into D&D, not so much things with similar rules.

I would have gone with what someone else said and expanded the boardgame, where they already have an audience - make your own characters, have longer missions that are not purely tactical, a campaign system for growth. It could be played stand alone but it would be more fun if you shelled out for the boardgame... There's nothing wrong with a single book game where only 10-20 pages of the book is mechanics.

But we're getting a 5e version and it could be fine as the core mechanics could handle it with just a few tweaks. Or it could be a cobbled mess. I'm waiting for the quickstart rules.
 
Excellent! Did you use any CineUni games in particular? I was thinking the Angel RPG would be a good starting point.

Rules-wise it was mostly the Angel RPG, but I also used the magic system from Ghosts of Albion.

Character creation was a mix of stuff from Angel, Ghosts of Albion and Armageddon for ClassicUni.

For enemies, I remember using a mix of stuff from the above games plus All Flesh Must Be Eaten's excellent zombie creation system.

All of this is strictly from memory, for more detailed info I would have to find my notes from back when.
 
So, if I wanted to pick up some of the comics, would people suggest starting with the Omnibus (first published) or the Complete Short Stories (chronologically first)?
 
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Hey guys! I just came up with a revolutionary idea!
What about... waiting to actually read an RPG before pissing on it?

...crazy talk, I know...



I've read Dungeons & Dragons


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Got this notification today

"Mantic Games is excited to announce that it is partnering with Dark Horse Comics and visionary creator Mike Mignola to bring Hellboy: The Roleplaying Game to Kickstarter this summer. Hellboy: The Roleplaying Game will be a whole new way to explore the Hellboy and B.P.R.D. universe while creating your own spectacular one-off stories or action-packed chronicles.

Powered by the world’s most popular RPG ruleset, Fifth Edition, Hellboy: The Roleplaying Game gives you the tools to step into the shoes of a B.P.R.D. agent, ready to face the forces of evil. You can become a field researcher skilled in the study of the occult, a hard-nosed B.P.R.D. security agent, a rookie with hidden supernatural powers, and more…. The choice is yours.

Developed by Red Scar Publishing, Hellboy: The Roleplaying Game is being led by ENnie Award-winning writer and game developer Marc Langworthy, who has worked on Mutant Chronicles 3rd Edition Roleplaying Game, Judge Dredd & The Worlds of 2000 AD Roleplaying Game, and the Conan: Adventures in An Age Undreamed Of Roleplaying Game.

Once the Kickstarter launches, you will be able to try the roleplaying game for yourself with a detailed quickstart that features six pre-generated characters, all the rules needed to play, and a unique adventure inspired by the Hellboy graphic novels, written by Red Scar.

“We can’t wait to bring Hellboy back to Kickstarter,” said Ronnie Renton, CEO of Mantic Games. “The roleplaying game is going to be a fantastic new way to experience Hellboy on the tabletop. The team at Red Scar has done an amazing job of capturing the feel of the Hellboy universe. Plus, your miniatures from Hellboy: The Board Game will be compatible with the RPG, which will bring a whole new lease of life to your awesome mini collection.”

Mantic Games launched Hellboy: The Board Game on Kickstarter in 2018 and raised almost two million dollars during the campaign. The board game is a co-operative experience in which players face off against some of the comic’s most famous foes. Up to four people take control of iconic B.R.P.D. members––Hellboy, Abe Sapien, Liz Sherman, and Johann Kraus––before exploring gothic locations, uncovering ancient artefacts, and battling one of Hellboy’s most notorious foes, Rasputin! After launching at retail last year, the game is now available in multiple languages (French, Italian, Portuguese, and Russian) and is on its fourth reprint after selling out worldwide
."


This is....really depressing, to be honest. I love Hellboy, I've wanted a new RPG for years after the GURPs game.

And I couldn't think of a less suitable system for him than D&D. I don't know how anyone could look at the D&D rules and think they would be good for modelling the world of Hellboy.

And so it feels, I dunno, gimmicky, or like a cash grab :sad:
Yeah, d20 or 2d20, it's pretty much the same:thumbsup:!
I guess that I'm lucky not to be a Hellboy fan, so I don't care much.
 
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I've read Dungeons & Dragons

Lots of people had read both D&D and LoTR, then AiME happened.

CoC is essentially a generic D100 ruleset, but it has one specific rule that has made it such a decades-long success: Sanity, coupled with the Cthulhu Myth skill. That one simple rule completely changes the flow of the game. Sometimes, it's amazing what you can do with some well-aimed changes.

I can get your general disappointment, but "cash grab", "lowest common denominator", "the fans lose" before even reading the book is quite simply prejudice.
 
Lots of people had read both D&D and LoTR, then AiME happened.

You're talking about the game based on a book based on a game also based on that book?

Oh yeah, really comparable example...
 
Lots of people had read both D&D and LoTR, then AiME happened.

CoC is essentially a generic D100 ruleset, but it has one specific rule that has made it such a decades-long success: Sanity, coupled with the Cthulhu Myth skill. That one simple rule completely changes the flow of the game. Sometimes, it's amazing what you can do with some well-aimed changes.

I can get your general disappointment, but "cash grab", "lowest common denominator", "the fans lose" before even reading the book is quite simply prejudice.
I love CoC and wouldn't list either Sanity or the Mythos skill among the factors that I like about it. Not even in a top 20.

And alas, at this point expecting a game that's a disservice to the source material when we hear about d20/D&D being used for the core system is just statistics:shade:!
 
Hey guys! I just came up with a revolutionary idea!
What about... waiting to actually read an RPG before pissing on it?

...crazy talk, I know...

That's the thing. I haven't actually seen anyone pissing on the game. Just presupposing that the no matter how well done, 5e isn't the first choice for a system for such a game and discussing the merits of that choice. GURPS Hellboy was well done. But the system got in the way of the work that they put into it, IMO.
 
Has anyone here played the original Hellboy RPG?

I did, some...fifteen years ago? Oy gevalt. It was OK, but it was still GURPS, which I have never been a fan of. I found the system didn't do the setting any favours; not enough modification to fit Hellboy. My view is probably shaped by the fact that my character - a werewolf working for the BPRD - was a real pain in the butt to put together; shape-shifters just didn't work so well in that iteration of GURPS. It didn't do the free-flowing action that I really wanted to see in a Hellboy game, either.

(All IMHO of course.)

I agree with those who say Cinematic Unisystem or Atomic Robo would be a good fit. Savage Worlds would be OK (especially with the Superpowers Companion). I'm skeptical that 5E is fit for purpose here but we'll see; I would've said d20 was a terrible choice for superheroes but M&M made it work pretty well.
 
I see this and go back to my standby: “..or I could just do this with FATE,”

Did a very brief scratch-n-sniff and found one person who tried a BoL hack for BPRD. They just added “Freaky Power” as an ability.
 
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I did, some...fifteen years ago? Oy gevalt. It was OK, but it was still GURPS, which I have never been a fan of. I found the system didn't do the setting any favours; not enough modification to fit Hellboy. My view is probably shaped by the fact that my character - a werewolf working for the BPRD - was a real pain in the butt to put together; shape-shifters just didn't work so well in that iteration of GURPS. It didn't do the free-flowing action that I really wanted to see in a Hellboy game, either.

(All IMHO of course.)

I agree with those who say Cinematic Unisystem or Atomic Robo would be a good fit. Savage Worlds would be OK (especially with the Superpowers Companion). I'm skeptical that 5E is fit for purpose here but we'll see; I would've said d20 was a terrible choice for superheroes but M&M made it work pretty well.

I think GURPS is a better system than D&D5 for Hellboy and brother, that’s saying something.

This thread really makes me want to run Hellboy with Savage Worlds SPC. Or dust off my old Day After Ragnarok campaign which had both Hellboy and LoXG as inspirations.
 
The problem they have here is that the more they depart from standard 5e they more they lose the point of using 5e in the first place.

We saw this with the D20 boom. Despite the fact that the system quite clearly was written in such a way as to minimise the importance of classes if you wished to hardly anyone ever had the guts to simply remove the class system from their SRD game.

There is also the fact that if you strip 5E down enough you get a list of ability scores that were never made for the function they serve and a proficiency/skill system which works best when you take it as a general indicator of competence and mostly avoid rolling the dice (ie. don't use it). Or in other words, if there's a basis that's worth building on in 5E at all, it has to be in the implementation of D&D and not in any system of core underlying mechanics.
 
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Well, it's launched:



I'm in it for the hellboy bag and dice (already own all the minis)

My expectations of the game have dropped further after reading the bios of the creative team, but hey, it will be a pretty shelf-warmer next to my Limited Edition of the GURPs Hellboy RPG
 
The quick start is available:

 
It is nice to see a lot of my old friends from the Boardgame KS comments showing up, something tells me I'll be actively involved in the comments section
 
Yeah, I'm really not seeing any issues with the team; Modiphius are the current hot UK RPG company, so a lot of writers will go through there.
 
I took a quick look through the quick start. It looks like it will work fine but it doesn’t seem inspiring for Hellboy. I think if I were a fan I’d just get this for the art.
 
Yeah, I'm really not seeing any issues with the team; Modiphius are the current hot UK RPG company, so a lot of writers will go through there.


That was shorthand for GW's benefit, I have issues with them I'm not willing to talk about with people here, but I did say I was talking about "My expectations", which isn't really anything people need to defend against.
 
I took a quick look through the quick start. It looks like it will work fine but it doesn’t seem inspiring for Hellboy. I think if I were a fan I’d just get this for the art.


Unfortunately none of it is new art.

But the dice are beautiful

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The only thing I remember Mike Mignola doing was a few Batman covers back in the 80s. :clown:

Seriously though, the “A Death in the Family” covers were fantastic.

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From an initial browse of the QS, I have to say it looks to be really well done.

The D&D core is there, so it'll be familiar enough for people who have only ever played D&D to jump right in with minimal friction... but the changes are substantial enough that I think it'll play quite differently.

As noted previously, it seems every character has at least a couple of bonus actions and reactions available (on top of the standard "shared" ones), so there will be a lot more use of those types of abilities and tactical choices at the table.
There is a nice "injury" system that does away with the "I'm ok, I'm ok, I'm ok, I'm down" nature of damage in D&D, plus a "second wind" like action, that does away with the need for magical healing and seems like it'd balance well even in a standard D&D game without clerics. Also the resting mechanics are much more appropriate for the genre than the D&D short/long rest.

The list of "origins" and the classes also seem to be pretty well done.
The ingenuity and doom mechanics I'm a little on the fence about... I kind of like the way they're used, and the fact that they introduce a bit of a "yes, but" / "no, and" mechanic to 5e... but the way they're generated by rolling an extra d10 along with every d20 roll leaves me a little cold... maybe it'll play better than it reads, I'm not sure. I definitely think I'd prefer using the boardgame dice here rather than a standard d10.

The only thing that caught my eye that I didn't like was that it (re)introduces damage reduction on top of resistance/vulnerability and immunity... that's a little bit too far into unnecessary crunch territory for me. I was tempted to do the same thing in the early days of 5e, but having played and run extensively now I just don't think it's needed.

I mean, if you hate D&D / d20 with a passion, then this likely isn't going to change your mind. But if you like 5e and/or are more system agnostic, there is a lot to appreciate in there. I'm pretty optimistic for the final game.
 
I have no idea why you've posted this, it's not a 2d20 game.

The 2D20 game system was designed by what company?
What company did several of the designers in the KS work for?

Seriously, Ladybird got the connection right away.

Perhaps you could actually answer the question instead of incessantly whining about a game you didn't like but backed anyway

If you don't like the premise of a thread, then don't post in it.

And no, I don't intend to answer your question any further than I have. As I stated before, I was talking about my expectations, there's nothing for you to argue about in regards to them.
 
I mean, if you hate D&D / d20 with a passion, then this likely isn't going to change your mind. But if you like 5e and/or are more system agnostic, there is a lot to appreciate in there. I'm pretty optimistic for the final game.

It's going to look pretty at least. New stretch goal just upgraded to leatherbound.
 
The 2D20 game system was designed by what company?
What company did several of the designers in the KS work for?

Seriously, Ladybird got the connection right away.



If you don't like the premise of a thread, then don't post in it.

And no, I don't intend to answer your question any further than I have. As I stated before, I was talking about my expectations, there's nothing for you to argue about in regards to them.
Can you just answer without all this silly bullshit? What is the problem with their biographies? Simple enough question surely?
 
He said it’s because they worked on 2d20.

You know, the game I like to meme all the time.
 
The only thing I remember Mike Mignola doing was a few Batman covers back in the 80s. :clown:

Seriously though, the “Death in the Family” covers were fantastic.

View attachment 21387


My introduction to Mignola was Triumph & Torment, the first full telling of Doom's origin

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My favourite DC work by him was Gotham by Gaslight

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I always did like Doctor Doom. He has that honor that I like. The Secret Wars stuff stuck with me when I was a kid. I remember drawing a rendition of issue #10 with Doom on the cover. Loved his whole look.
 
I always did like Doctor Doom. He has that honor that I like. The Secret Wars stuff stuck with me when I was a kid. I remember drawing a rendition of issue #10 with Doom on the cover. Loved his whole look.

He's hands down my favourite supervillain, visually astounding (I've heard, but don't know if it's been confirmed, he was an influence on the design of Darth Vader), but moreso such a complex character, at once a megalomaniac, but at the same time enough of a genius that it's almost justified. His country is essentially a paradise on earth for his subjects, leading to the very real question of whether Doom succeeding in taking over the world would actually be a net positive for humanity.
 
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