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Welcome to the Pub, chongjasmine chongjasmine :smile:!

People, that reminds me of the two Biblical gamebooks. In one of them you play Samson, and in the other, Joshua. Has anyone else played any of them:wink:?
 
Now I want Biblical era Mythras :weep:

I have thought that if I were to ever write an RPG book, it would be Biblical Mythras. I would start with a campaign of the time when the Israelites crossed over the Jordan and conquered the promised land. The cover would be from Joshua 8: looking over Joshua's shoulder as he stands on a hill and holds his spear towards Ai below (similar to the picture below but more in the style of other Mythras covers). The Israelites would have Theism magic, and the magic of the other peoples would be Sorcery and Animism. I would also like to cover other Old Testament times.

joshua.jpg
 
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I want to do an RPG based on Super 3D Noah's Ark

super_3_d_noahs_ark_1c9fed25-ffc1-49b2-a855-f8bc3ce90d51.jpg


For those unfamiliar, back during the original NES days they had a big issue with Christian developers making pirate games for the system. The design of the super nintendo largely prevented this except for one game that found a work around: Super 3D Noah's Ark

1512578249_1359829.jpg


To get this to play you had to insert an official super nes game, and plug this one on top of it. What you were then faced with was a blatant reskin of Wolfenstein, with the Nazis replaced with farm animals. Instead of gunning them down wth a machine gun, you "put them st sleep" with a slingshot...

1594233462391.jpeg

But the hilarious thing about this was, the reason that this was actually a really good reskin of Wolfenstein 3D is because the developers of Wolfenstein were so pissed off at the way NES butchered their game when they did a port for the super NES system, that they went ahead and gave the original code to the Christian pirate game company (four words I'll never tire of saying) Wisdom Tree to make this rip off (and rumour has it may even have developd the tech that allowed Wisdom Tree to bypass the Super NES's security systems).

Anyhow the concept of an elderly man running around an (apparently skyscraper-sized) maze-like wooden ark (decorated with pictures of his smiling face) getting attacked constantly by animals with only a slingshot to defend himself just seems like a great RPG waiting to happen...

 
I have thought that if I were to ever write an RPG book, it would be Biblical Mythras. I would start with a campaign of the time when the Israelites crossed over the Jordan and conquered the promised land. The cover would be from Joshua 8: looking over Joshua's shoulder as he stands on a hill and holds his spear towards Ai below (similar to the picture below but more in the style of other Mythras covers). The Israelites would have Theism magic, and the magic of the other peoples would be Sorcery and Animism. I would also like to cover other Old Testament times.

Elijah would have a serious POW score.
 
I have thought that if I were to ever write an RPG book, it would be Biblical Mythras. I would start with a campaign of the time when the Israelites crossed over the Jordan and conquered the promised land. The cover would be from Joshua 8: looking over Joshua's shoulder as he stands on a hill and holds his spear towards Ai below (similar to the picture below but more in the style of other Mythras covers). The Israelites would have Theism magic, and the magic of the other peoples would be Sorcery and Animism. I would also like to cover other Old Testament times.
Sounds like you could have a mini-GPC style campaign for the entry to Canaan. You'd have some cool NPCs with the various monsters and otherworldly angels.
 
Even though I'm an atheist, I still would find a biblical game very interesting indeed... The background is super rich and has loads of gaming potential.

Sorry, and the idea of 'converting' people to Christianity, really appeals to my dark sense of humor and it's a delicious excuse for being a murder hobo. ;) Don't judge me too harshly, I love dark and gritty games.

If the rules were good I'd probably back thins.

Urm... Am I going mad, or has the page seems to have disappeared? :sad:
 
In the discussion of Christian role playing games, where does In Nomine fall?


Depends on IMHO on which version, U.S. vs Original. The original was from what I've read quite well done with a lot of "humor" (not in silly, just well irreverent in nature and quite good.) The U.S. version was not as well handled in its nature and toned that down and more serious in nature, sort of like a pseudo-wannabe White Wolf game. Far less White Wolf style and generally a better take on the latter concept, I'd recommend Relics (by a good friend of mine.)

Anyway, I hope that makes sense, I'm not coherent but I'm putting why in another thread.
 
Nope, seems gone.

I hope that it was taken down to tighten up the pitch, rather than due to reception of the concept.
It may be the latter. The reception elsewhere was a lot harsher than here...

Unfairly in my opinion. I may not share her faith but from what I've seen the OP was nothing but respectful when it came to things like making sure to post in the right subforums etc.

It's a pity she didn't return. I think people here were mostly genuine about trying to help out with advice on promotion etc. But I think she may be feeling a bit bruised from the responses elsewhere.
 
The reception elsewhere was a lot harsher than here...

Unfairly in my opinion. I may not share her faith but from what I've seen the OP was nothing but respectful when it came to things like making sure to post in the right subforums etc.

Yeah, that does not surprise me tbh... It's a sad state of affairs. :sad: Why people can't let other people just make games without all the judgement baggage I just don't know. If you don't like it, don't buy it.

I honestly would have backed this if it had good rules... There's a gap in the market for this time period/type of game.

PS - I hope she comes back and the game goes up again.
 
I haven't checked other forums yet, but let me guess: the people who want to make sure that every creative voice can be heard (and the voices of female creators doubly so) did take offense at what she had to say about her religion. Now am I right or am I right:devil:?

If this game goes back again, I am backing it!
 
I haven't checked other forums yet, but let me guess: the people who want to make sure that every creative voice can be heard (and the voices of female creators doubly so) did take offense at what she had to say about her religion. Now am I right or am I right:devil:?

If this game goes back again, I am backing it!
What forum is this being discussed on? I can't find it... Linke please...
 
Yah, I haven't seen it discussed elsewhere so far (but then again, I don't go to every site on the Internet).
 
Just to be clear: my post was "I haven't seen it elsewhere, so I don't think we can judge that other sites aren't being supportive"; not "I haven't seen it elsewhere, so it must not be supported."
 
I don’t mind if you guys post links elsewhere, but we don’t really want to have posts talking about why other sites aren’t as supportive as we are here at the Pub. It just leads down that rabbit hole.
Thanks I wasn't going to bring it back here. I did look on the two biggest suspects but saw nothing.
 
I think the goal was a bit high, the idea may be better suited for a zine approach for a few thousand goal ($1000-1500). That seems like a good way to present a mini-game concept by someone without an established rpg background that people will be willing to take a risk on for a few bucks. Also include someone on the project to do the layout and that wasn't really addressed in the pitch that I saw.

In terms of Christian rpgs, one of the most popular, The One Ring and Adventures of Middle Earth, with its Corruption mechanic is often overlooked. Tolkien wasn't very heavy-handed in general but his entire world is informed by the Christian ethic. Much more successfully than the Protestant Lewis imo, who often was too heavy-handed in his later fantasies and sf.
 
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I agree that Tolkien's work is influenced by his Christianity, but I thought I read in the intro to the Silmarillion that he explicitly said it was not a work of Christian allegory. Am I remembering that wrong? If that's the case, then I'm not sure I'd categorize The One Ring as a Christian RPG.
 
I don’t mind if you guys post links elsewhere, but we don’t really want to have posts talking about why other sites aren’t as supportive as we are here at the Pub. It just leads down that rabbit hole.
Agreed that we shouldn't do that! But in my defense, I wasn't asking why, merely making a guess that fits a certain pattern of behavior:smile:!
 
Since this has turned into a more general thread: tell me more about KC's Wolves of God? I just saw fantasy middle-ages western European OSR RPG and kept on going, but it sounds more interesting now that it's been raised in this context. Anyone have / played / run it?
 
I agree that Tolkien's work is influenced by his Christianity, but I thought I read in the intro to the Silmarillion that he explicitly said it was not a work of Christian allegory. Am I remembering that wrong? If that's the case, then I'm not sure I'd categorize The One Ring as a Christian RPG.

Yes, that is a well known statement, can't say I trust the author there though. The entire ethical framework of LotR is informed by a (slightly sentimental) Christian framework. I think Moorcock ironically makes a good case for that in his brutal critique of Tolkien.

I think Tolkien may have meant allegory is in the often vulgar sense where many twist things very clumsily to read LotR as very literal metaphor for WWI or WWII for instance. The kind of reductive reading that Sontag critiques in her essay Against Interpretation. I believe that the heavy-handed allegory of Lewis' fantasy came in for a drubbing by Tolkien for instance.
 
What forum is this being discussed on? I can't find it... Linke please...
If it's ok, if people want the specific site I'm talking about I'd rather they asked me in IM. I'm a member and don't want to stir up drama, especially as I'm planning to drop a note to admin suggesting that some people were behaving unacceptably.
 
Agreed that we shouldn't do that! But in my defense, I wasn't asking why, merely making a guess that fits a certain pattern of behavior:smile:!
I'm not taking about TBP. :p
 
Yes, that is a well known statement, can't say I trust the author there though. The entire ethical framework of LotR is informed by a (slightly sentimental) Christian framework. I think Moorcock ironically makes a good case for that in his brutal critique of Tolkien.

I think Tolkien have meant allegory is in the often vulgar sense where many twist things very clumsily to read LotR as very literal metaphor for WWI or WWII for instance. The kind of reductive reading that Sontag critiques in her essay Against Interpretation. I believe that the heavy-handed allegory of Lewis' fantasy came in for a drubbing by Tolkien for instance.
Yah, it seemed that Tolkien had a low view of allegory, for sure. It also wouldn't be the first time that an author wasn't fully honest about their own work for PR reasons ... :grin: Still, I have trouble thinking of The One Ring a Christian RPG. (EDIT: Kinda in the same way that there's obviously some Christian influence on shows such as BUFFY, ANGEL, and especially SUPERNATURAL, but I wouldn't call those shows or RPGs based on them Christian).
 
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In his letters Tolkien (if I remember right) says it's not allegory because Illuvatar is literally meant to be the Christian God, but where God had simply taken a different creative "mode" or method for bringing about the world.
 
In terms of Christian rpgs, one of the most popular, The One Ring and Adventures of Middle Earth, with its Corruption mechanic is often overlooked. Tolkien wasn't very heavy-handed in general but his entire world is informed by the Christian ethic. Much more successfully than the Protestant Lewis imo, who often was too heavy-handed in his later fantasies and sf.
tolkien lewis.jpg
 
In his letters Tolkien (if I remember right) says it's not allegory because Illuvatar is literally meant to be the Christian God, but where God had simply taken a different creative "mode" or method for bringing about the world.
Huh, I thought I recalled that intro (which was a letter to the publisher, now that you mention it) going out of its way to show that these beings weren't Christian beings at all. Again, I could be remembering wrong, it's been a while ...
 
I'm surprised I can't find any Pilgrim's Progress rpgs out there in the wild. I'd have thought it was a really strong concept.
 
Yah, it seemed that Tolkien had a low view of allegory, for sure. It also wouldn't be the first time that an author wasn't fully honest about their own work for PR reasons ... :grin: Still, I have trouble thinking of The One Ring a Christian RPG.

I think of it like Pendragon, the behaviour of your PCs are to follow is a sense of the heroic informed by a Christian ethic. We're so used to the Christian ethic that we often don't even recognize it. It is a very different sense of the heroic you encounter in Roman and Greek sources and some Sagas. Wolfram von Eschenbach's Parzival comes to mind as a romance that has a very different ethic than most of its pagan equivalents, it actually reminds me of the surprisingly ecumenical Sufi material like The Conference of Birds.
 
Oh, sure: Christianity is the historically dominant religion of the western hemisphere, so it has widespread influence, whether or not the author or work is or is advocating Christianity, no argument there. I'd personally reserve "Christian" as a descriptor of an RPG for something more specific than that, I think.
 
Huh, I thought I recalled that intro (which was a letter to the publisher, now that you mention it) going out of its way to show that these beings weren't Christian beings at all. Again, I could be remembering wrong, it's been a while ...
I don't know how much you might want me to bore you to tears with this :grin:, but it's tied up in Tolkien's metaphysics concerning the relation of created beings with their creator. Here are example letters from Tolkien:
Letter to R. Murray said:
The Lord of the Rings is of course a fundamentally religious and Catholic work; unconsciously so at first, but consciously in the revision.
Letter to P. Hastings said:
We differ entirely about the nature of the relation of sub-creation to Creation. I should have said that liberation "from the channels the creator is known to have used already" is the fundamental function of "sub-creation", a tribute to the infinity of His potential variety ... I am not a metaphysician; but I should have thought it a curious metaphysic – there is not one but many, indeed potentially innumerable ones – that declared the channels known (in such a finite corner as we have any inkling of) to have been used, are the only possible ones, or efficacious, or possibly acceptable to and by Him!
From these (and other material) Tolkien gives the fairly clear reading that Illuvatar is a mode of being God may have chosen. Alternate to the one in the real world, but not contradictory to Catholic dogma. He wrote a few "defenses" of a created being like himself imagining alternate paths for the Creator (the second letter above gets at this).

In later material in his Legendarium there is an early meeting between men and elves where the main elf has a sort of vision/reasoning where he sees Illuvatar will one day come in the form of a man to repair the relation between himself and creation.

Even for example that Elves and Men are the same race biologically, but simply differ in how their souls are integrated with their bodies is meant as a sort of exploration of the two different fates mankind is meant to have in Christian theology.
 
I don't know how much you might want me to bore you to tears with this :grin:, but it's tied up in Tolkien's metaphysics concerning the relation of created beings with their creator. Here are example letters from Tolkien:


From these (and other material) Tolkien gives the fairly clear reading that Illuvatar is a mode of being God may have chosen. Alternate to the one in the real world, but not contradictory to Catholic dogma. He wrote a few "defenses" of a created being like himself imagining alternate paths for the Creator (the second letter above gets at this).

In later material in his Legendarium there is an early meeting between men and elves where the main elf has a sort of vision/reasoning where he sees Illuvatar will one day come in the form of a man to repair the relation between himself and creation.

Even for example that Elves and Men are the same race biologically, but simply differ in how their souls are integrated with their bodies is meant as a sort of exploration of the two different fates mankind is meant to have in Christian theology.
Not at all boring, thanks!
 
One thing I like about TOR is that it isn't afraid to say 'you should be heroic' the same way MSH does. Makes sense as both sources are very much about heroism.

I find the OSR's promotion of non-heroic play its least interesting feature.
 
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