Let's Read "THE PRICE OF FREEDOM" from West End Games

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It was presented straight-faced when released and Greg defended it as such, as he says "to capitalise on the conservative fan base". Thanks for the reference. I'm not saying there isn't humour in his design and writing, so much so I've generally found it daft rather than funny. You might read it as hilarious satire now but I think framing it like that gives it too much credit.
 
Bilharzia said:
It was presented straight-faced when released and Greg defended it as such, as he says "to capitalise on the conservative fan base". Thanks for the reference. I'm not saying there isn't humour in his design and writing, so much so I've generally found it daft rather than funny. You might read it as hilarious satire now but I think framing it like that gives it too much credit.
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‘The Note to Liberal Readers’ from the game itself hardly presents the game straight-faced. It ends with ‘Blow it up! Blow it up real good! Eat hot death, Commie Dog! That’s the ticket.’

And Costikyan is paraphrased by the author not quoted directly when it comes to the ‘conservatives’ line. Also note the rather left-European interpretation of ‘conservative’ in that very line. Whereas in the game Costikyan refers to the game more accurately as a ‘right-wing nightmare.’

I think we’re seeing Pettersson’s interpretation in that sentence not the designer’s. The entire piece by Pettersson reflects a European sensibility quite at odds to the 80s pop irony I think Price of Freedom and almost all of Costikyan’s more personal games reflect.
 
He seems pretty straight laced here (WD87), even when at the time he's cautious about his "preying on the gullibility of right-thinking Americans" comment, the rationale for the game is realism. Of course perhaps this is likely Greg's genius ploy of extending the satire into the PR for the game.

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That comes across as straight-laced? Really? Yes, he's defending the game, but he's not being 100% serious there either.
 
If the game is good, does it really matter if it’s straight or played for laughs? It seems that this game can do either experience because there aren’t any built-in impediments to either.
 
Dumarest said:
It's almost like we're allowed to read into it whatever we choose and play it any way we want! :shock:
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Oh I don't think so, because if you read it straight then "the irony is lost on you", (presumably because you're too dim to notice) or you can't read because you're "a pretentious humourless wannabe author that reviewed stuff in White Dwarf and Imagine at that time and reviewing stuff without reading the product properly", probably due to the deadly serious grimdark WFRP game they were writing at the time. :sleep:
 
Dyrnwyn said:
That comes across as straight-laced? Really? Yes, he's defending the game, but he's not being 100% serious there either.
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Yeah that response to me is drenched in irony for the first half. But either way I agree the game can be played tongue-in-cheek or straight, that is laid out pretty clearly in the game itself.
 
Maybe you guys can start a new thread to debate the secret meanings of The Price of Freedom.

In the meantime, Chapter 5: Combat starts out with a quote from Rousseau and the assertion that "A lot of the time in The Price of Freedom you'll be fighting the fanatical Commie invaders and their simpering minions through indirection--by gathering information, sting operations, and the like. In the final analysis, however, the only way to defeat the enemy is to kill enough of them that the others lose heart. Whatever you do, combat will be a big part of the game." Honestly I don't recall ever playing out any sting operations and the information gathering was generally only in the service of blowing up Commie supply lines and such.

One nice section in the rules states to players who want to read all the rules in the Gamemaster Book as well as the Player Book: "Be warned about one thing, though; we specifically tell the gamemaster that he shouldn't let rules details get in the way of the action," that the GM "may purposefully ignore certain rules to keep the game flowing," and "don't bug him with questions like 'But don't I get a +1 die-roll modifier because the possum is dead, according to rule 7.69.2, part c?'"

The Price of Freedom comes with maps and cardboard counters you can use for combat. You used to see this often: TSR Marvel Super Heroes, Task Force Games Heroes of Olympus, Star Frontiers, and Gangbusters are just some of the RPGs I recall coming with maps and counters for tactical combat. However, none of those came with a nifty storage tray like The Price of Freedom did!
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I don't know when maps and counters became passé, but I'd venture to guess it was around the mid-1980s as all of my games from the latter half of the decade assume combat will be "theater of the mind." Well, anyway, I like both but prefer counters to miniatures in any case. I've made plenty of my own counters using paper glued to those semi-hard boards collectors stick behind comic books in their bags. The Price of Freedom has plenty of counters for pretty much anything you might need for the game: PCs, vehicles, weapons, wound status, barbed wire, jammed guns, etc.
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It should be clear, though, that the use of maps and counters is strictly optional. Personally I'd go without them for most scenarios as I find they can be a distraction for some players, like a laser pointer to a cat, causing then to spend more time looking at the map and the various counters than thinking about the situation and what their PCs should try. But in some situations they can be helpful for clearly defining a set-up, so I go case by case.

The maps use hexes that are six meters across and weapon ranges and movement allowances are measured in hexes, which I dislike; I prefer actual measurements that I can convert to hexes as needed, even though it's just the same thing backwards. Colors and patterns indicate terrain types and difficulty of movement through a particular hex. Some hexes are divided by things such as walls so as to avoid bizarrely-shaped buildings and fences. These hexes are called "half hexes" and moving from one half to the other costs the same as moving from one undivided whole hex to another, due to the wall or other obstruction. This can also work to your advantage, though, if you're on the other side if a wall and being pursued, or if a grenade lands on the opposite side of a wall you'll have a reduced effect on your side. Half hexes do not affect range.
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The Gamemaster Book comes with a blank page of hexes you can photocopy to make your own maps. However, it's in the middle of the book and has no margin at the left side, so actually getting a good copy can be a pain. There is a small margin on the right side: had they only turned the hex page the other way, they could have made it much easier to make copies.
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It's getting late and I'm exhausted from spending four hours assembling a bunkbed for my kids, so I'll pick up with (5.2) Combat and Gamemaster Control next time.
 
The only thing I miss from the old box set really are the cool maps.
 
At this rate we should complete this "Let's Read" sometime in 2020...part of the "problem" is that so much of the game is intuitive or self-explanatory that there doesn't always feel like there's much to comment on.

(5.2) Combat and Gamemaster Control begins by explaining SOP for most RPGs: "Each player controls one character on the map. The gamemaster controls and makes decisions for all non-player characters." It also explains the the GM does not give the players information their characters don't have: for instance, if an NPCs gun jams or is out of ammunition, you don't place the "Jam" or "Ammo" counters on the NPC unless the PCs would have some way of knowing this. See what I mean about not much to comment on? It's all pretty standard and clear unless this is your very first RPG.

(5.3) Combat Sequence breaks down into six steps how to run combat rounds.
  1. Panic Segment: The GM secretly determines which NPCs panic. (Morale, basically.)
  2. Observation Segment: The GM secretly checks to see if the PCs spot anyone they weren't already aware of. If so, add 'em to the map. Then you do the same for the NPCs.
  3. NPC Decision Segment: The GM decides what each NPC will do this round.
  4. Player Decision Segment: Same as Step 3 but for the PCs now. Note that you declare your actions and cannot change them later.
  5. Combat Resolution Segment: self-explanatory, I hope!
  6. Movement Segment: Move any counters that declared movement. Opportunity fire and charge/melee may be triggered by movement. What does this mean? Stay tuned for the explanation as well as other possible actions when we look over (5.4) Actions!
 
Since the other communist invasion RPGs were mentioned, we should take note of what was probably the first; Invasion U.S. a supplement for either Stalking the Night Fantastic or Fringeworthy.

It was released in 1984, and maybe not in response to the Red Dawn movie. The idea of a Russian invasion was not a new idea of course and the setting of Invasion U.S. was in fact an alternate world listed on the Prime Earth Portal in the Fringeworthy rulebook.

For a 32 page supplement, it covers all the basics you'd expect/need to run a campaign. A map of the People's Republic of America, a guide to speaking Russian, list of common Russian names, a lot of stats for military vehicles, prices and tables for Occupied America, etc.

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ORtrail said:
Since the other communist invasion RPGs were mentioned, we should take note of what was probably the first; Invasion U.S. a supplement for either Stalking the Night Fantastic or Fringeworthy.

It was released in 1984, and maybe not in response to the Red Dawn movie. The idea of a Russian invasion was not a new idea of course and the setting of Invasion U.S. was in fact an alternate world listed on the Prime Earth Portal in the Fringeworthy rulebook.

For a 32 page supplement, it covers all the basics you'd expect/need to run a campaign. A map of the People's Republic of America, a guide to speaking Russian, list of common Russian names, a lot of stats for military vehicles, prices and tables for Occupied America, etc.

JCn1zEF.jpg
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Invasion USA was a classic campy 50s anti-communist propaganda film, there is a quite good MST3K episode that features it. The 80s film is technically a 'remake' although the 80s film basically just retains the title and the broad idea of a Russian/Cuban invasion.
 
I have to admit the reasons my posting rate for this "Let's Read" has been so slow compared to the others I've done (James Bond, Golden Heroes, and Flashing Blades) boil down to (1) it's been a pretty dull read, nothing about the game inspires me, and (2) I don't see any possibility I'll ever play it again. I'd still like to finish it at some point but, with apologies to anyone reading along, I'm going to put this one on hiatus until I'm feeling the right vibes. :cry:

But on the bright side, I'll soon start one for another game.
 
This thread has piqued my interest, and now I want to play out some Red Dawn-ish fights. I'll probably do it as a miniatures game rather than an PRG. Does this game have any scenarios?
 
warwell said:
This thread has piqued my interest, and now I want to play out some Red Dawn-ish fights. I'll probably do it as a miniatures game rather than an PRG. Does this game have any scenarios?
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The Gamemaster's Screen comes with a scenario as well.

Other than these two, amd the ones in the book, I don't think there are any more.

But the GM screen does have rules for generating Soviet troops amd installations.
 
Gabriel said:
I wonder how easy it would be to hack this into an RPG for the original V miniseries and V: The Final Battle?
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At a glance, the rules are not too dissimilar from Paranois 2e, so probably not too difficult.
 
Thanks Ralph Dula and Gringr. Pity there's no PDF of these. Ebay has PoF but it's more than I'd like to spend.
 
There are illegal PDFs around, at least of the boxed game and Your Own Private Idaho. They're not hard to find. I know it's piracy, but this game is as dead as dead gets, and I doubt there'll ever be a legitimate source. I realize that's a cheap rationalization, but it works for me, in this case.
 
Gabriel said:
I wonder how easy it would be to hack this into an RPG for the original V miniseries and V: The Final Battle?
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FGU's Freedom Fighters had a similar theme and specifically included alien invaders as an option. I'm much less familiar with this game though, often confusing it with Freedom Fighters.
 
I picked up both supplements and each was about what I paid for the box set. Which was bout 75 bux apiece.
 
I loved the original Red Dawn, and me and my players and I played Red Dawn as an RPG before The Price of Freedom came out, using-of all things-the Alma Mater rules! That being said; I don't believe that this game was meant to be either serious or ironic, or a parody of the times. It was nothing more than a fantasy action adventure game. Especially since there were already some Miltary RPG's around at the time (T2K, Behind Enemy Lines, etc), so another Military game in that vein wasn't abnormal. You have to remember that the idea of Russian Soviets invading the West was always in the back of everyone's mind. As much as this was far-fetched (they could never have pulled it off)...it was still there. After all, Twilight 2000 was the same with the Soviets invading Europe, a much more believable attack. I know the only slap-stick part of it was the use of language; Commies, Quislings, Cowardly Turncoats etc. But this game could always, and probably is, played 'straight'.

Someone mentioned using these rules for running a game of V or V: The Final Battle...and this thought has crossed my mind a number of times. I never could understand why, in the time of licensed properties, why this was never done by a company. The Price of Freedom is about occupying forces, so this would fit in very well. Also, the fact that POF WAS'NT about aliens, makes it more appealing, whereas other occupying games threw in aliens as a sop to keep criticism off their backs I would have bought everything for a game about V. I will still do this someday, just have to figure out how to make up rules for the blasters.
 
Freedom Fighters had rules for aliens. I was kind of turned off by the simplicity of Price of Freedom back in the day compared to other games (I had the same reaction to Top Secret SI after playing Top Secret for years) but now I appreciate the game design in SI and need to dig my copy of Price of Freedom out to give it a another look.
 
Dyrnwyn said:
That comes across as straight-laced? Really? Yes, he's defending the game, but he's not being 100% serious there either.
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Yeah, even my terminally tone-deaf ass is drowning in the sarcasm dripping from that letter
 
No, I was serious. I think you just have an opinion on this that can't be changed. You seem to be 'against' the game.
I was being serious. And I still am.
Who is Srukk?
Glad to be here. I'd like to comment on a few games.
I like POF, and am running it on roll d20. We are playing it straight, as it was meant to be.
It's a fun game. But, It is simplistic. But.. I like that. But I do get worried about PC's getting blasted by a single die roll (easily ignored)
T2K has great detailed rules, but thie is a game of fast fun action...so I use it as is.
 
Scott Lynch said:
No, I was serious. I think you just have an opinion on this that can't be changed. You seem to be 'against' the game.
I was being serious. And I still am.
Who is Srukk?
Glad to be here. I'd like to comment on a few games.
I like POF, and am running it on roll d20. We are playing it straight, as it was meant to be.
It's a fun game. But, It is simplistic. But.. I like that. But I do get worried about PC's getting
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Who are you talking to? Bilharazia? This thread is a necro, no idea if he's even read any of the new replies
 
Scott Lynch said:
Swo?
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It may have been a necro, but it brought a game to my attention that I only remembered from the rather awful White Dwarf review. It makes me wonder if the game wouldn't have done better for a non-US audience if it had been citizens Vs the Bug Eyed Monsters from Outer Space and had a range of satire to serious alien invaders.

That's a game world that I could find something to play in rather than what appeared to be a TW2000 knock off looking for it's own niche. Which is what I thought it was.
 
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