Little Interest in The Marvels (MCU disaster?)

Best Selling RPGs - Available Now @ DriveThruRPG.com
It's pretty clear that the MCU is in dire straits. IMO, the best thing Disney could do ATM is to cancel everything they have planned, and shelve the MCU for five years or so and let people recuperate.
When Forbes disagrees with that assessment, I don't think it's valid. Many people just want it to be so, and many are saying idiotic things about The Marvels to also drive word of mouth down. When someone says that it's worse than Quantumania, MOM, and Love and Thunder in their review, IMO it's biased. Those had major problems, where this was just a serviceable, safe entry.
 
I was giving this some thought… I have young kids who should be prime demo for this film. I’m also a comic book fan, and overall a fan of Marvel and so on.

I have no desire to rush out and see this film in a theater when I can just watch it on my couch in three months or so. My kids are also not demanding to see it because we got rid of cable and they’re no longer subjected to constant advertising about it (not that they don’t see ads because they certainly do, but not for this film).

My son is 6 and mentioned seeing this movie once, but has no real concept of when it would be out. My daughter’s 9 and liked the first film enough that I’d expect her to want to see this, but she hasn’t mentioned it at all. Like, she was very aware that Barbie was coming out a few months ago. They both also liked the Ms. Marvel show well enough.

But without the typical nagging by them to be taken, there’s just no incentive for me. They didn’t nag because they weren’t really aware this movie was coming out. Something as (I would think) simple as having the Disney Plus home page play the trailer for it in the month or two leading up to release would be a good idea. The most I saw was a suggestion to watch the first film “before The Marvels hits theaters”. It looks to me like a missed opportunity.

I’ll happily watch from my couch and save myself $80 in February. The last time I went to the theater to see one of the Marvel films was Endgame, which had a lot of buildup to it and was the culmination of the whole concept of a cinematic universe. Also, it was pre-pandemic.

All this is to say that there is so much that’s changing about the film industry and the way we consume media that there are going to be some growing pains as Disney and other studios learn (or don’t) to adapt.
 
It's pretty clear that the MCU is in dire straits. IMO, the best thing Disney could do ATM is to cancel everything they have planned, and shelve the MCU for five years or so and let people recuperate.
That would be a big middle finger to the fans especially with Deadpool coming next year. Slow down? Sure but to stop and essentially reboot would repeat the mistakes we have seen DC do over and over.
 
That would be a big middle finger to the fans especially with Deadpool coming next year. Slow down? Sure but to stop and essentially reboot would repeat the mistakes we have seen DC do over and over.

I remember people saying a Thor movie was unfilmable. They were wrong. I remember people were also saying an Avengers movie could never work. They were very wrong. And I remember people saying maing an Ant-Man was nut. It was nuts, but in a good way.

The point being, with the right script, cast and focus on quality, any concept can work.

There is merit in the notion of a reboot. The MCU has burned through so many classic characters (heroes, villains and supporting cast), Asgard is gone, Shield is a mess, the multi-verse even messier. Age, tragedy or just questionable casting choices further restricts the toys in their playset.

That said they still have a huge playset. The Fantastic Four and the X-Men are strong enough IPS to carry the MCU and there are play of more street-level stories (like Echo promises to be) that can be told, possibly borrowing more from the Netflix Marvel.

Reboot or no reboot, all that matters is getting the right script, cast and focus on quality.
 
There is merit in the notion of a reboot.
I think its way too early. What are you going to do, tell the same stories over again ad infinitum? There's been years of stories done in comics and what they've done is a miniscule amount compared to what they have to work with. Consequences need to be long lasting and explored. They've done a piss poor job with doing that so far and I think that's why moving on has been difficult. The themes explored have been interesting but the execution has been lacking because they won't commit.
 
This may all be the standard over reaction of fandom but I hope it is a sign that the days of the megabudget 'event' film is in decline like Hollywood experienced with their Bibical and historical epics (also crafted to get people into the theatres and away from their TVs) in the 50s and 60s.

Mainly because that led to the American film renaissance with a wide variety of movies, including serious films for adults, in the 70s.

Whenever the culture can briefly escape the grasp of the money men it is a good thing.
 
Last edited:
I don’t think the Fantastic Four or X-Men can do the heavy lifting for the MCU going forward. They will be merely accessories.
 
I don’t think the Fantastic Four or X-Men can do the heavy lifting for the MCU going forward. They will be merely accessories.

Why do you think that about the X-Men? The previous films were big hits even as they slid into mediocrity and doesn't it remain the most popular comic series for Marvel, both historically and currently?

Perhaps audiences will be resistant to a reboot or are just burned out on superheroes period, I guess we'll see.
 
Why do you think that about the X-Men? The previous films were big hits even as they slid into mediocrity and doesn't it remain the most popular comic series for Marvel, both historically and currently?

Perhaps audiences will be resistant to a reboot or are just burned out on superheroes period, I guess we'll see.
The X-Men were their best selling series until about 2000 bar none. When Spider-Man picked up with JMS and Romita Jr on the title and then the Ultimate Spider-Man sales was good. Sales have remained fairly good since then. You could say it’s a wash. Civil War and Secret Invasion were popular but those have already been plucked for use.

Spider-Man is the MCU juggernaut now, no pun intended, now that RDJ is “retired”.
 
Last edited:
No Way Home made $1.9B during the pandemic. Huge number. Disney would be happy if a movie did even a whiff of that now, Avatar excluded.
 
I don’t think the Fantastic Four or X-Men can do the heavy lifting for the MCU going forward. They will be merely accessories.

I've seen terrible movies made from the characters popular like Batman, Spider-Man and Wolverine. I've also see greatness spring from less known titles like the Guardians of the Galaxy or Jessica Jones. I mean Groot became a household name practically overnight. Whether the FF or the X-Men can carry the MCU depends entirely on how good their respective movies turn out to be.
 
I've just got back and it was a solid superhero film. Certainly better than people are giving it credit for and the mid credit scenes is great!

Ok, it wasn't Endgame but that had ten years of build up and pay off.
 
I've seen terrible movies made from the characters popular like Batman, Spider-Man and Wolverine. I've also see greatness spring from less known titles like the Guardians of the Galaxy or Jessica Jones. I mean Groot became a household name practically overnight. Whether the FF or the X-Men can carry the MCU depends entirely on how good their respective movies turn out to be.

I think we should remember that the success of a film and its quality are orthogonal at best. Lots of great films have flopped and lots of crap has raked it in.
 
Last edited:
Don't get me wrong, She Hulk started well but the 4th wall breaking went from knowing asides to breaking the metaphysical barrier and a Monty Python non-ending. What a waste.
"This series has become too silly to continue."
 
A major reason for the film's flop is that the workload placed on Marvel's chief creative engine, president Kevin Feige, is starting to catch up with him, according to the authors of the recently published MCU: The Reign of Marvel Studios.
 
I think that The Marvels will be the death of super-hero films for a bit. It's not really super-hero fatigue as much as that just about all of the super-hero films for the past few years have been bad, and that's tired people. From everything I've heard and read, The Marvels will be a spectacular trainwreck.
Belatedly weighing in on this. I think when it comes to mainstream audiences, superhero fatigue is real. And at the same time, Marvel lost sight of what most comic fans wanted from them. That meant they even lost their core, guaranteed audience, leaving them with nothing.

The MCU is such a jumbled mess now, I don't see how they can even fix iti short of a total reboot. And they'd probably need to wait years before they could attempt that. There's a lot of rumors now in entertainment news about brining Downey back to resurrect Iron Man in a desperation move. Honestly, I think that would only make things worse. Undoing Stark's sacrifice would retroactively ruin Endgame.

It would a repeat of Disney brining Palpatine back from the dead as a cheap stunt and undermining Return of the Jedi.
 
I'd say another huge misstep in the post-Endgame MCU is the lack of romance. Back when Iron Man came out, all the reviews I saw mentioned the chemistry between Tony Stark and Pepper Pots. As the MCU went on, we had Steve Rogers and Agent Carter, Bruce Banner and Black Widow, Starlord and Gamorra. The earlier movies understood that part of the classic Marvel recipe was a degree of soap opera.
 
We do have Antman and Wasp on the romantic front.

I think another problem is how quickly these movies show up streaming. If I know it’s only two or three months to see it on tv I may not bother spending the money to go to the theater. (In my case I will because I enjoy the Alamo Drafthouse experience but if it was a regular, crappy theater I’d be far less likely to go).
 
The earlier movies understood that part of the classic Marvel recipe was a degree of soap opera.
And I think that's what helped the first lot of films from Iron Man to Endgame. The callbacks to other films, the stingers hinting at what was to come. We weren't watching films, we were watching the worlds most expensive ongoing series.

So far the mid and end credit stingers haven't really led anywhere. We've had the BlackKnight and a v/o from Blade but nothing has come of it. We had Starfox and Pip, nothing came of it. They've hinted at Thunderbolts since both Black Widow and Hawkeye but we're still waiting. I'm sure there's a post-it covered, cork board somewhere in Disney Towers where all this stuff comes together but unless you put that stuff on screen so people get a sense of pay-off from watching the credits, you're just wasting time.

(I sat through the credits for the Marvels and feel they shot their load too early. The end scene of the film should have been the mid credit scene and the mid credit scene should have been end credits).
 
We do have Antman and Wasp on the romantic front.
Barely. Something has been lost in the chemistry between them, and I'm not sure what it is.

I think another problem is how quickly these movies show up streaming. If I know it's only two or three months to see it on tv I may not bother spending the money to go to the theater. (In my case I will because I enjoy the Alamo Drafthouse experience but if it was a regular, crappy theater I'd be far less likely to go).
I think the reduction in the lag time is one of the best things to hit the industry. It's just that, like music, they'll have to adjust and figure out a way into this new future. The consumer shouldn't have to suffer inconvenience just because they are stuck in the past.
 
Barely. Something has been lost in the chemistry between them, and I'm not sure what it is.


I think the reduction in the lag time is one of the best things to hit the industry. It's just that, like music, they'll have to adjust and figure out a way into this new future. The consumer shouldn't have to suffer inconvenience just because they are stuck in the past.
I’m not advocating for an artificial six month time lag in going from the big screen to your home, I’m just saying the faster turn around, or even worse a concurrent release, definitely impacts ticket sales at traditional theaters.
 
I think another problem is how quickly these movies show up streaming. If I know it’s only two or three months to see it on tv I may not bother spending the money to go to the theater. (In my case I will because I enjoy the Alamo Drafthouse experience but if it was a regular, crappy theater I’d be far less likely to go).


That's definitely a big part of the problem. There's nothing like the Alamo Drafthouse around me, just regular movie theaters. The last movie I saw in the movie theater was Shazam! back in 2019, and I'm not about to go to a movie theater again anytime soon. It's just not worth it.

In 2013 (back when I still drank soda), I went to see Pacific Rim in the movie theater. I went to the concession stand, and ordered a medium Coca-Cola. The lady behind the counter filled the soda, and pushed it to me... knocking the drink over. I'm a dwarf IRL. I was literally soaked in Coca-Cola from the neck down. The lady apologized and got me another one. Then, during the film, while I'm still soaked in Coca-Cola, there's a toddler sitting behind me who keeps kicking my chair and screaming. Towards the end of the film, the toddler literally threw his flip-flops over my head and onto me.

I was so steaming angry after that that I didn't go back to a movie theater for two years. The next film I saw was Mission: Impossible - Rogue Nation. In the theater was someone playing a video game on his cell phone during the entire film. You could clearly see the light from his screen in the movie theater. About a half hour into the film, an elderly couple began yelling at him to turn it off... except the jerk then held his phone up higher so the light could be better seen by everyone. That lasted the rest of the film. The next film I saw after that was Star Trek Beyond. About a third of the way through the film, the movie theater's fire alarm went off and we evacuated. Waited outside in the rain for ten minutes, only to discover that some jerk pulled the fire alarm as a prank.

Went to see Shazam! in 2019. There were three people on the phone throughout most of the film.

I just don't see the point of actually going to the movie theater anymore. Why spend $$ to subject myself to rudeness and jerks, when I can just wait a few months, rent or buy the film, and watch it in the comfort of home?
 
That's definitely a big part of the problem. There's nothing like the Alamo Drafthouse around me, just regular movie theaters. The last movie I saw in the movie theater was Shazam! back in 2019, and I'm not about to go to a movie theater again anytime soon. It's just not worth it.

In 2013 (back when I still drank soda), I went to see Pacific Rim in the movie theater. I went to the concession stand, and ordered a medium Coca-Cola. The lady behind the counter filled the soda, and pushed it to me... knocking the drink over. I'm a dwarf IRL. I was literally soaked in Coca-Cola from the neck down. The lady apologized and got me another one. Then, during the film, while I'm still soaked in Coca-Cola, there's a toddler sitting behind me who keeps kicking my chair and screaming. Towards the end of the film, the toddler literally threw his flip-flops over my head and onto me.

I was so steaming angry after that that I didn't go back to a movie theater for two years. The next film I saw was Mission: Impossible - Rogue Nation. In the theater was someone playing a video game on his cell phone during the entire film. You could clearly see the light from his screen in the movie theater. About a half hour into the film, an elderly couple began yelling at him to turn it off... except the jerk then held his phone up higher so the light could be better seen by everyone. That lasted the rest of the film. The next film I saw after that was Star Trek Beyond. About a third of the way through the film, the movie theater's fire alarm went off and we evacuated. Waited outside in the rain for ten minutes, only to discover that some jerk pulled the fire alarm as a prank.

Went to see Shazam! in 2019. There were three people on the phone throughout most of the film.

I just don't see the point of actually going to the movie theater anymore. Why spend $$ to subject myself to rudeness and jerks, when I can just wait a few months, rent or buy the film, and watch it in the comfort of home?
100% plus with Alamo for about the same price as soda and popcorn I can have a burger and beer.

For those not familiar the Alamo will kick out rude customers, they bring your food to your table and you can order during the film. Plus they have a customized half hour pre show before every movie.
 
We do have Antman and Wasp on the romantic front.
Like chuckdee chuckdee said, there isn't any chemistry there. I feel like the the Wasp is vaguely contemptuous of Ant-Man, and I can't think of any reason she is with him other than the script saying she is. In the Iron Man movies, Pepper Potts was frequently critical of Tony Stark, but her criticisms seemed to come from her genuinely caring about him.

Maybe other people see it differently, but even then, it's a holdover romance from the Golden Age.
I think another problem is how quickly these movies show up streaming. If I know it’s only two or three months to see it on tv I may not bother spending the money to go to the theater. (In my case I will because I enjoy the Alamo Drafthouse experience but if it was a regular, crappy theater I’d be far less likely to go).
I agree that earlier streaming is an issue for theaters, but it shouldn't be for Marvel movies. If we had early streaming back when Endgame came out, can you imagine many people saying, "Nah, I'll watch it on TV in a few months"?

In the case of The Marvels, my feeling is that people simply don't want to watch it at all, not that they are waiting to watch it on TV. Keep in mind, the low-budget Five Nights at Freddy's movie is on track to beat The Marvels in total box office.
And I think that's what helped the first lot of films from Iron Man to Endgame. The callbacks to other films, the stingers hinting at what was to come. We weren't watching films, we were watching the worlds most expensive ongoing series.

So far the mid and end credit stingers haven't really led anywhere. We've had the BlackKnight and a v/o from Blade but nothing has come of it. We had Starfox and Pip, nothing came of it. They've hinted at Thunderbolts since both Black Widow and Hawkeye but we're still waiting. I'm sure there's a post-it covered, cork board somewhere in Disney Towers where all this stuff comes together but unless you put that stuff on screen so people get a sense of pay-off from watching the credits, you're just wasting time.

(I sat through the credits for the Marvels and feel they shot their load too early. The end scene of the film should have been the mid credit scene and the mid credit scene should have been end credits).
On that note, this just came up in my Youtube recommendations.
 
I’m not advocating for an artificial six month time lag in going from the big screen to your home, I’m just saying the faster turn around, or even worse a concurrent release, definitely impacts ticket sales at traditional theaters.
I think 3 months is perfectly fine for a wait with a well made movie that doesn't blow its budget- even 45 days. Barbie and Oppenheimer should have proved that. They made bank, and got no longer a lag in the movie.
 
I thought the original Captain Marvel film was fine. I think they really messed up by not dropping a proper CM sequel, and adding in some other characters that no one really wanted to see basically watered it down to something else. Meh...

Re. She hulk. I never watched it because the trailer made it look ridiculous - like a silly comedy and I don't really like wacky stuff (but that's just me). However, the actress who plays She Hulk (T.M.) is amazing. I first saw her in Orphan Black and she did a damn fine job! But from the clips I saw this was not my bag at all.
 
If they'd have done this Captain Marvel instead of Aryan Space Karen and her Diversity Sidekicks I would have been all over that...

captain-marvel-688x1024.jpg
 
If they'd have done this Captain Marvel instead of Aryan Space Karen and her Diversity Sidekicks I would have been all over that...

View attachment 71299
You realize she’s in the movie and
saves the universe at the end of the film, she will be back.

Edit to add the “Aryan Space Karen and her Diversity Sidekicks” is the type of comment I’d expect to see on TheRPGSite not here.
 
She's really the only reason I want to see it. That said, I fully expect complete character assassination and mishandling because Marvel's gotten worse and worse about that.
 
=Re. She hulk. I never watched it because the trailer made it look ridiculous - like a silly comedy and I don't really like wacky stuff (but that's just me). However, the actress who plays She Hulk (T.M.) is amazing. I first saw her in Orphan Black and she did a damn fine job! But from the clips I saw this was not my bag at all.
I wish they had gotten Tatiana Maslany to play Crazy Jane in the Doom Patrol series. The actress they got was the weakest link in an otherwise great cast. And to be fair to her, it was a very challenging role, so it doesn't mean she can't act. She just wasn't up this particular challenge.
 
I wish they had gotten Tatiana Maslany to play Crazy Jane in the Doom Patrol series. The actress they got was the weakest link in an otherwise great cast. And to be fair to her, it was a very challenging role, so it doesn't mean she can't act. She just wasn't up this particular challenge.

I forgot there was a Doom Patrol series. Was it any good?
 
Banner: The best cosmic horror & Cthulhu Mythos @ DriveThruRPG.com
Back
Top