Low Math, Iconographic RPG

[David Johansen]

For years now I've been trying to figure out a way to set up D&D visually with minimal math. I drew this up tonight. It would require custom dice but I don't see how else you could get around it. It might be possible to position the d20 icons in such a way that the die could be shifted a number of faces to handle bonuses. Though, I think if you can't manage the bonus format here, you probably can't play D&D. I don't know, it's an idea I've been screwing around with anyhow. Light Passages?

 

[Silverlion]

Did you ever see Dragon Dice? Those were dice with custom icons, but you rolled to see what you could do for each army unit..

A better option might be a non-D20 based system using a small die pool, but in some ways that is the madness of the recent Star Wars/Genesys system game. All these icons, and slow as heck result parsing because of too many symbols/dice sizes. I'd suggest d6es with fixed icons and results: Like 3D6 with Armor, Armor, Sword is good for soaking an attack. While Sword, sword, sword is good for an attack. You'd need to keep the symbols low in number, and consistent in results (nothing like negative dice to counter the positive or cause weird you succeed wildly but with setbacks of Genesys)

 

[Mankcam]

Hey if you are wanting to try an extremely rules-lite rpg that isn't D20, I highly recommend Tricube Tales
The bundle comes with heaps of microsettings, and it very cheap (you can download the settings individually for free)
This is absolutely worth checking out: Tricube Tales Bundle

The core system is really basic
There is not much meat on the bone, which is the charm of it. Everything resolved by rolling one to three dice (1D6 to 3D6), and/ or spending various tokens.

Characters have an Archetype ( which is a combined Character Trait and a Character Concept) and a Quirk, as well as a few Perks, and some kind of Tokens for Luck/Effort, etc

That's it, the character sheet all fits on an index card with heaps of space left over, and no cumbersome maths at all.

Very simple, and does the job well for newbies or pulp adventure etc.
It's really a great little game

 

[David Johansen]

Well, the point of it is pretty specifically to try to D&D with greatly reduced math, reading, and numbers. I had a guy coming into my store for a while who was really struggling but wanted to play. One day he asked me to dial the phone for him and it all came together. He was covering up pretty well for a guy who couldn't read the numbers on a phone well enough to dial them from a note on a piece of paper. He never came back after that.

Between that and trying to play with my kids when they were little, the idea has stuck in my head. But I think part of it is that D&D is so tied to numbers and math so making a mathless version is really challenging. It'd probably be clearer with better icons.

But, mostly it's a thing I doodled up and thought, neat enough to share.

 

[Ladybird]

I think the problem here is that D&D's design is all about numbers, right down to it's core, so any attempt to excise them is starting from a faulty premise. Instead what you need to do is start with the basic concepts and rebuild from scratch, hiding the numbers where possible; you'll lose depth and complexity, sure, but that might be the right trade-off for this design.

 

[David Johansen]

Yeah, I know, and custom dice aren't exactly the inexpensive way to achieve it. I think what I've doodled up is workable. I'm not sure it's all that readable but I think it's more or less solid. As it stands I made spells more like class abilities. The cleric can heal and turn undead, the wizard can blast stuff and protect themselves. I think there'd always be a need for text explanations but they can be read and explained at least. But yeah, you lose a ton of depth and complexity. I'm guessing that wouldn't be a huge issue for people who can't read.

For my next trick Iconographic Rolemaster Standard System!

 

[rumble]

I've always loved efforts like this. Trying to translate a game or anything else into "something simpler" or just different is no mean feat.

But really, at the end of the day, you're translating one language into another. This means, unless your translation is truly simple (or to use a loaded term, "intuitive"), you're going to leave a lot of people like me in the dust.
Especially since I've always had a very difficult time learning languages, and that goes double for character-based languages (Chinese, Japanese) compared to alphabet-based languages (English, Russian).

Most normal humans can process about 7 different things quickly, and then it gets slower from there. In English, we learn 26 letters (in small groups or by singing (which is another language)), and then build word memory (spelling) from that point forward. Word memory = pretty sure research shows you can scramble letters in words, leaving the original first and last letters in place, and readers will still be able to skim successfully.

Personally, my first question is: do you want to recreate DnD, or are you trying to recreate the essence of DnD.
For example, do you really need to communicate chainmail, or is that just "flavor", and you want to communicate the "strength" of your armor at any given moment. If you're going for essence, you could reduce all your armor and hitpoints to pipes (|) and open circles (o) respectively. That way, +2 leather would be the same as a chain shirt, or 13, which you might represent as (|||).

If you're trying to recreate the complexity of DnD, you're likely to lose people like me. Not because I don't understand DnD--I do, and reasonably well--but because I don't want to learn another language to play the same game.

Just because Shatner learned Esperanto doesn't mean I'm going to learn it to talk to him. English works just fine.

Other data points:
Throwing Stones RPG tried something similar (I thought it was a fantastic attempt).
And Slice and Dice is an android game that pulls it off delightfully well, even though I have to keep looking up what non-basic die faces mean.

 

[Sosthenes]

It would require custom dice but I don't see how else you could get around it.

VTTs/Apps. Up 'til now only computer RPGs were allowed to have more complex mechanics (well, at least a more complex D&D). Tabletop games had to be manageable with some dice and paper.
Now that VTTs are getting quite popular, there's more room for change.

 

[David Johansen]

A bit of an evolution of concept would be to use symbols on the d20 x, triangle, square, circle, star. ten of the x and two of each of the others. Then things like armour could have ratings like triangle, triangle and circle, triangle circle and star to show the results that would hit. Stat bonuses would probably give an additional symbol, I haven't quite worked it out in my head yet. Ideally they'd turn some of the misses into hits. But how to keep that from getting complicated or mathy eludes me.