M-Space?

[natty bodak]

Does anyone have any experience with it, and or any guidance on the system?

I haven't paid much attention to the RQ6 /Mythras division, so a quick catch up there would be great.

Ultimately I have a desire to use all of my great David Pulver Transhuman Space setting material and maybe try a new(to me) system along the way.

 

[Raleel]

I own it and Mythras. What would you like to know?

 

[TristramEvans]

I know nothing of "M-Space", but Runequest 6/Mythras I'm convinced is the best fantasy RPG system on the market.

 

[Raleel]

Ok, now that i have coffee...

Lets start with Mythras. Mythras got it's name because TDM lost the rights to the Runequest 6 name. They picked Mythras, and released a new version with some minor text edits (except the animism chapter, which is more substantially reworked and a lot clearer) and a major layout change that reduced the page count quite a bit. You won't be missing much if you have RQ6 and not Mythras, but frankly Mythras is a great buy.

Mythras/RQ6 is, in my humble opinion, an amazing system and deserves all of the honors I can heap on it. A great deal of thought and refinement has gone into the system, and it's pretty evident.

M-Space is a Mythras Imperative derivative, licensed under the Mythras Gateway. Imperative is sort of the cliffs nots of the rules, free and 32 pages or so. You could comfortably do a campaign with it, though you would be making a lot on your own.

Anyhow, M-Space is sci-fi supplement. It is geared somewhat towards space opera, but it can certainly fill a number of roles. It defaults to, I think, a touch less crunchy than Mythras itself, owing to several systems being constructed inside it and not leaning on 30 years of history like Mythras. Most of the system is the same - characters are cross compatible, there are a few skills that are new, etc. If you are familiar with d100 variants, it's very much like that.

Unique features of it include

• rules for extended conflicts, which functionally turns a stat or two into a conflict pool of "hit points" and you drain that pool.
• Rules for simplified combat. Subset of special effects, broad combat styles, no hit locations, and so on.
• Starship design rules. these are pretty full, essentially making a sort of character out of a ship.
• Of course with starship design, you get starship combat. It has it's own set of special effects, boarding, ramming, fast ship advantages and so on. It also has simplified starship combat. it ALSO has Advanced starship combat, for those of us who like pretty detailed stuff. This is the section that gets into spinal mount weapons, firing arcs, and the like.
• Alien creation rules. this section is pretty table heavy, but that's part of the fun for folks, I think (at least for me). tables for advantages (claws, extra senses, high intelligence, etc), disadvantages, communication, body shape, tech level, laws, foreign policy, and more. It's pretty detailed
• World building. not a huge section, but helpful for having a place to put your aliens.
• Circles. the cults and brotherhoods of space I suppose. Detailed a bit differently, but similar role.
• Psionics. Not the same as psionics in Luther Arkwright. Sections of powers for Sense (intuition, battle meditation, etc), Mind (empathy, control mind, etc), and Matter (TK, physical augmentations, etc)
• Vehicle Design. Different than the Luther Arkwright ones. Covers land and water and air. Also includes vehicle weapons.
• Technology. the equipment chapter. datalinks and droid controllers and tracer beacons oh my.

There are some sample vehicles and lifeforms in the back as well.

 

[natty bodak]

That's some pretty good coffee you got over there! I'm going to pour a cup or three and start reading your reply.

Thanks, and be right back...

 

[Raleel]

That's some pretty good coffee you got over there! I'm going to pour a cup or three and start reading your reply.

Thanks, and be right back...

Pacific Northwest. We do not mess around with our coffee. Coffee is Serious Business™

 

[natty bodak]

Pacific Northwest. We do not mess around with our coffee. Coffee is Serious Business™

So, it seems I bought a hardback copy of RQ by TDM semi-recently in what must have been a mad sales discount frenzy. It's TDM100B - is this RQ6, and if so, it sounds like I wouldn't necessarily need to get anything else, either to play in Mythras games or settings, and that in getting M-space I'd be in a similar situation and not really need to buy anything else.

Is that accurate? Starting to read some M-Space blurbs now. As you said it seem maybe more inclined toward space opera than what I had in mind right off the bat, but sometimes going in an unexpected direction is its own reward.

For those of you still following along, would you be interested in giving a "most mythras moment" from play that says "this is exactly what the game's about?"

I've got an international fight in the morning, so I'm preloading some good reading for the hangtime.

Thanks for that great info!

 

[Raleel]

So, it seems I bought a hardback copy of RQ by TDM semi-recently in what must have been a mad sales discount frenzy. It's TDM100B - is this RQ6, and if so, it sounds like I wouldn't necessarily need to get anything else, either to play in Mythras games or settings, and that in getting M-space I'd be in a similar situation and not really need to buy anything else.

TDM100B is runequest 6. It should work just fine for M-Space, and you are correct. Mythras/RQ6 has some free content on their website, including a free adventure and some GM tools which include a couple of free adventures, and some firearms rules which are quite nice.

Is that accurate? Starting to read some M-Space blurbs now. As you said it seem maybe more inclined toward space opera than what I had in mind right off the bat, but sometimes going in an unexpected direction is its own reward.

I don't know a lot about your setting that much, but I imagine it would work just fine. While I say "space opera", TDM's Gift of Shamash adventure was released recently, is more of a gritty sci-fi Aliens style adventure, and they even recommend M-Space for it. It is much closer to something like The Expanse than, say, Star Wars. It will work just fine. The Author says at the beginning:

M-SPACE is mostly intended for heroic and mythic sci-fi games, but can be used for many other styles too with a few tweaks. You can emulate everything from contemporary near-realistic settings, to 1940s pulp-inspired heroes.

For those of you still following along, would you be interested in giving a "most mythras moment" from play that says "this is exactly what the game's about?"

I've got an international fight in the morning, so I'm preloading some good reading for the hangtime.

Thanks for that great info!

Mythras is somewhat of a generic system, so setting issues crop up in the "what this system is about" question. But I can point to a combat we did early on in a Varangian guard game. We were coming down through Bulgar lands, escorting a merchant caravan. We got jumped by bandits. We had a character jump the boss and pull him off his horse, my viking drop 3 people with javelins to the heads (got extremely lucky), and 3 bandits in a row go down to left legs getting chopped off.

Another combat comes to mind, when we were doing our Hyborian age game - party of 5 got deceived by sultry priestesses of a diseased rat god, were led to him, and mass melee ensured at close range. The Hyperborian used a set of manacles as a flail, wrapped them around the rat god/demon's arm, and broke it with a very strong yank while the PC Stygian Necromancer and the Nemedian Justicar were battling the priestesses with spell and sword.

A big selling point of mythras/rq6 is the special effects. Essentially, if you beat your opponent handily (you succeed to hit, he fails to defend), you get a special effect, like trip, choose location head or leg, entangling a limb, etc. if you crit you get more, if they fumble you get more. crit + fumble = 3 effects, which can include ones from the crit only and fumble only lists.

a less combat situation was in the same Hyborian game when the party was betrayed by the Stygian slave girl they rescued and lured into an ambush. They survived, bent on revenge now, and stole 20 horses from the local bat cultists. Then they sold the horses to a representative of the local padashah, who turned out to be the slave girl disguised and conning them. They sold them for about 1/3 what they were worth, then went to find her and ended up burning down a drug lord's tavern and stealing 10k silver in grey lotus. Of course, he was supplying the local general of the army, so now the army is chasing after them

 

[Simlasa]

The framework for cults and such are a big part of what I like about Mythras/RQ6... that they're removed from their Gloranthan constraints and can be twisted to all sorts of other purposes like guilds, martial orders, secret brotherhoods.

On the other hand, I'm not fond of how Mythras/RQ6 ditched the RQ2/BRP method of PC advancement... and I still like the Resistance table/formula, but those are minor quibbles I can fix for myself.

 

[Raleel]

I'm not familiar with RQ2's method of advancement. can you explain it?

 

[Simlasa]

I'm not familiar with RQ2's method of advancement. can you explain it?

There was no XP to spend as you want.
If you used a skill in a meaningful way, the GM would tell you to put a check mark next to it and at some point you could try to roll over that skill's current rating to see if you gained percentage in it. You could also increase through training somewhat... but the gist was that you only increased skills you used and/or trained, and as you got better it got increasingly difficult to advance.
As a houserule, I always gave skill advancement checks for fumbles as well.
(I might be gumming this together with later BRP incarnations like Magic World, which has a few subtle differences)

 

[Raleel]

There was no XP to spend as you want.
If you used a skill in a meaningful way, the GM would tell you to put a check mark next to it and at some point you could try to roll over that skill's current rating to see if you gained percentage in it. You could also increase through training somewhat... but the gist was that you only increased skills you used and/or trained, and as you got better it got increasingly difficult to advance.
As a houserule, I always gave skill advancement checks for fumbles as well.
(I might be gumming this together with later BRP incarnations like Magic World, which has a few subtle differences)

ah, thanks. I vaguely remember that now. Yea, those things are pretty modular. real strength of the whole d100 family.

 

[CRKrueger]

There was no XP to spend as you want.
If you used a skill in a meaningful way, the GM would tell you to put a check mark next to it and at some point you could try to roll over that skill's current rating to see if you gained percentage in it. You could also increase through training somewhat... but the gist was that you only increased skills you used and/or trained, and as you got better it got increasingly difficult to advance.
As a houserule, I always gave skill advancement checks for fumbles as well.
(I might be gumming this together with later BRP incarnations like Magic World, which has a few subtle differences)

That's super-easy to put in Mythras. Just check the boxes like normal, then when you hand out advances, PCs can only use them for skills with checks. If you want, you could declare a few skills the PC can be considered to be working on during downtime, like languages or lore skills. There are also training rules in Mythras so you can gain advances that way. Plus in Mythras you get an automatic 1% increase on a fumble.

So it's already really close to what you want, can be made almost exactly what you want with a minor change, and can be replaced with exactly what you want without really affecting anything else.

 

[CRKrueger]

Another combat comes to mind, when we were doing our Hyborian age game - party of 5 got deceived by sultry priestesses of a diseased rat god, were led to him, and mass melee ensured at close range. The Hyperborian used a set of manacles as a flail, wrapped them around the rat god/demon's arm, and broke it with a very strong yank while the PC Stygian Necromancer and the Nemedian Justicar were battling the priestesses with spell and sword.

a less combat situation was in the same Hyborian game when the party was betrayed by the Stygian slave girl they rescued and lured into an ambush. They survived, bent on revenge now, and stole 20 horses from the local bat cultists. Then they sold the horses to a representative of the local padashah, who turned out to be the slave girl disguised and conning them. They sold them for about 1/3 what they were worth, then went to find her and ended up burning down a drug lord's tavern and stealing 10k silver in grey lotus. Of course, he was supplying the local general of the army, so now the army is chasing after them

Now that's some Hyborian gaming by Crom!

 

[Raleel]

Now that's some Hyborian gaming by Crom!

thank you. my crew is VERY bitter about the slave girl. very very very bitter. it's spilled into other systems. every female with a speaking role i put into my game I name with some variation of her name just to taunt them. Honestly, one of my proudest moments in gaming.

 

[CRKrueger]

thank you. my crew is VERY bitter about the slave girl. very very very bitter. it's spilled into other systems. every female with a speaking role i put into my game I name with some variation of her name just to taunt them. Honestly, one of my proudest moments in gaming.

When your players hate one of your bad guys so much that they keep talking about it, even years later...

 

[Baulderstone]

It's a great idea to the read the GM advice in RQ6. It's not filler like in a lot of RPGs. They clearly spell out how to use the system to its best advantage.

Another tip related to RQ6/Mythras: It is an expanded and refined version of the second Mongoose edition of Runequest (MRQ2) which was written by the same authors (Whitaker and Nash). Almost any MRQ2 supplement is seamless to use with RQ6. Quality can be variable with Mongoose supplements, but I've found any of them actually written by Whitaker and Nash are well worth it if the subject matter interests you.

Also, when Mongoose lost the license to RuneQuest, they released Legend, which is just MRQII with RuneQuest intellectual property removed. Legend supplements are also effortless to use with RQ6.

 

[Simlasa]

So it's already really close to what you want, can be made almost exactly what you want with a minor change, and can be replaced with exactly what you want without really affecting anything else.

Agreed. That's why it doesn't bother me too much.
The experience system of RQ/BRP was one of the things that originally drew me to the game.

 

[Raleel]

It's a great idea to the read the GM advice in RQ6. It's not filler like in a lot of RPGs. They clearly spell out how to use the system to its best advantage.

Another tip related to RQ6/Mythras: It is an expanded and refined version of the second Mongoose edition of Runequest (MRQ2) which was written by the same authors (Whitaker and Nash). Almost any MRQ2 supplement is seamless to use with RQ6. Quality can be variable with Mongoose supplements, but I've found any of them actually written by Whitaker and Nash are well worth it if the subject matter interests you.

Also, when Mongoose lost the license to RuneQuest, they released Legend, which is just MRQII with RuneQuest intellectual property removed. Legend supplements are also effortless to use with RQ6.

This is all excellent advice.

I went back and reread the GM section last night a little slower and with intent to fully understand and pulled some information out of it that I had learned the hard way. It's a very good GM chapter.

I used pieces of Legend in my Hyborian Age game. The whole campaign was based on the Spider God's Bride (a legend version) and I used the the Blood Magic supplement, written by Mr Nash. Our Varangian game used Vikings of Legend, also written by Mr. Nash.

 

[The Butcher]

Ultimately I have a desire to use all of my great David Pulver Transhuman Space setting material and maybe try a new(to me) system along the way.

If you ever get around to a conversion, please, please post it somewhere and let us know. Still looking for a system that'll do Eclipse Phase without fuss.

 

[Raleel]

XP based off charisma is supposed to be due to social interactions. You don't get it if you don't talk.

 

[Simlasa]

XP based off charisma is supposed to be due to social interactions. You don't get it if you don't talk.

You mean to trainers? I thought I'd read somewhere that it was based on finding good trainers to help you advance... that if you're a smelly schlub you won't get the best teachers.

 

[Raleel]

A character’s CHA score may adjust the number of Experience Rolls the character has, reflecting the relationship he has with his peers, and his reputation in his community. If CHA is high people are willing to put themselves out to help train or support the character whilst they undergo tuition. Conversely, if CHA is particularly low, there may be some difficulty improving one’s capabilities without the assistance of others; finding someone to spar against for example.

So, sort of, yes. It's not quite the same as a teacher which has a whole different thing.

 

[natty bodak]

It's a great idea to the read the GM advice in RQ6. It's not filler like in a lot of RPGs. They clearly spell out how to use the system to its best advantage.

Another tip related to RQ6/Mythras: It is an expanded and refined version of the second Mongoose edition of Runequest (MRQ2) which was written by the same authors (Whitaker and Nash). Almost any MRQ2 supplement is seamless to use with RQ6. Quality can be variable with Mongoose supplements, but I've found any of them actually written by Whitaker and Nash are well worth it if the subject matter interests you.

Also, when Mongoose lost the license to RuneQuest, they released Legend, which is just MRQII with RuneQuest intellectual property removed. Legend supplements are also effortless to use with RQ6.

You ain't kidding. There's a good bit of practical & pragmatics GM advice there, and you can tell it's from long experience with running a variety of games, but also games of this family.

I've been reading through the RQ6 book in my travel time, and my now rare downtime. On the one hand, this version of the rules isn't SF focused, so I'm having to delay the part I was so eager to stampede toward in the beginning, but it's worth it so far. I might get Gift of Shamash that Raleel mentioned to give me something to read that will bring the two threads together for me as I read.

So, thanks for all the good advice so far. Our holiday time is spent much out / in the water, so every day I feel like an even older man, so I apologize if my participation here doesn't rise to the level y'all brought it to with your great responses. Just wanted to make sure you knew it's way appreciated.

 

[natty bodak]

Making good progress through RQ6, although now I fear that my end goal is going to have to be put on a back burner while I get RQ6 under my belt. I vaguely remember having played some RQ involvling cults of Vivamort and Found Child, but that is literally about all I can remember.

So to keep leaning on you fine folks for recommendations on first adventures to get people going, or good actual play sessions, or folks willing to do a one-shot intro?

Edited for clarity

 

[Baulderstone]

Making good progress through RQ6, although now I fear that my end goal is going to have to be put on a back burner while I get RQ6 under my belt. I vaguely remember having played some RQ involvling cults of Vivamort and Found Child, but that is literally about all I can remember.

So to keep leaning on you fine folks and recommendations or first adventures to get people going, and good AP, folks willing to do a one-shot intro?

Sarinya's Curse, which is free on the DM website, is a solid starting adventure. I see there is also a science fiction adventure for sale that is POD: A Gift from Shamash.

By AP, do you mean "adventure path"? If so, The Book of Quests is a nice series of adventures that form a campaign. It even has a basic setting presented in the first chapter. There is a book of adventures for the Luther Arkwright setting that had just gone out to kickstarters, but I don't see it for sale yet.

 

[natty bodak]

Sarinya's Curse, which is free on the DM website, is a solid starting adventure. I see there is also a science fiction adventure for sale that is POD: A Gift from Shamash.

By AP, do you mean "adventure path"? If so, The Book of Quests is a nice series of adventures that form a campaign. It even has a basic setting presented in the first chapter. There is a book of adventures for the Luther Arkwright setting that had just gone out to kickstarters, but I don't see it for sale yet.

Edited my previous post for clarity. I got, and read Shamash which seems like it could be a good one-shot intro with pre-gens that would likely be both a TPK and a campaign launch prequel where the players all know something their new characters won't about one of the boogeyman of the setting.

Has anyone ever started a campaign with an "Alien" / "The Thing" type scenario one shot with disposable pre-gens where a new set of player created characters start the real campaign with a dose of scary ooc knowledge that may or may not be part of the main campaign! I've been on the player side off that in CoC before.

Also got Sarinya's Curse for the flight home, thanks much!

 

[Baulderstone]

Has anyone ever started a campaign with an "Alien" / "The Thing" type scenario one shot with disposable pre-gens where a new set of player created characters start the real campaign with a dose of scary ooc knowledge that may or may not be part of the main campaign! I've been on the player side off that in CoC before.

Sure. I remember we'd call that an X-Files opening session back in the day. The first time I did it was with the Kult adventure Taroticum. In that adventure, the first session is a dream all the players have about previous life, so it works as foreshadowing as well as letting the players use it as in-character knowledge. I used the basic formula a couple of times in CoC as well.

It's always fun making people go through character generation and then telling them, "Put those characters aside. You are playing these guys instead."

Depending on the timing, I would be interested in one-shot.