Magic World: Hail and Farewell

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It's been 'dead' for years now, as far as Nu-Chaosium is concerned. Lots of games I like are 'dead'... maybe I'm a necrophiliac.
Yeah don't get me wrong, I am a fan of MW and will be forever. It's just that I appreciate a publisher's support in terms of spells, scenarios, campaigns, etc.
 
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You can get a new copy on Amazon for $40. But that's too much for a second copy (for me) when I have a working copy and the rules both in PDF and in my memory.
To be fair there's some used copies kicking around for about ~$20, but I suspect once the stock of new books runs out, Amazon bot pricing will do its thing and start ridiculously inflating prices (or not; you never can tell why or when it's going to happen).
 
Or even cheaper through Noble Knight, though nothing is going to compete with the $10 price Chaosium was offering when they were selling off their stock last fall.
 
Atomic Empire still shows it as available to order, the corebook at least.
 
To be fair there's some used copies kicking around for about ~$20, but I suspect once the stock of new books runs out, Amazon bot pricing will do its thing and start ridiculously inflating prices (or not; you never can tell why or when it's going to happen).
Okay you talked me into it (I am such a pushover). I bought a second used copy of Magic World. It makes sense as I use it heavily.
 
There are solid business reasons for most actions at Chaosium these days. MW sold terribly bad, and while a trickle of money from the pdf sales might be nice, you also get constant questions about the line, someone has a problem downloading a file and so on. Yadda yadda.That's a cost.

I am not a businessman, but it seems like the cost of those things should be factored into the price of the product. If you have 1 hour worth of labor costs answering download questions about this, that should be factored in, and I would think would be factored in with all of the other products you have downloaded from your store - i.e. it can be spread over a lot of downloads, and the actual cost for that one is very small. I find this argument fairly specious.

Also, I'm curious to know the reoccurring cost of a PDF in the host of other PDFs that represent an online distribution platform. It would seem to me that putting the file in s3 would cost on the order of $0.02 a year.

I would also note that if I remember correctly DTRPG's percentage is 30 or 35%, and the publisher gets 65 or 70% (please, anyone feel free to correct me, this is on memory, but I did read something about digital sales on their site). Since this works out to be almost exactly the price Chaosium is publishing it for, seems likely they were putting it up there without adding in the costs of maintenance of an online store, or somehow are incredibly cheap compared to DTRPG.

Seems odd, all things told. Seems like it would be a great generic BRP book.
 
I am not a businessman, but it seems like the cost of those things should be factored into the price of the product. If you have 1 hour worth of labor costs answering download questions about this, that should be factored in, and I would think would be factored in with all of the other products you have downloaded from your store - i.e. it can be spread over a lot of downloads, and the actual cost for that one is very small. I find this argument fairly specious.

Also, I'm curious to know the reoccurring cost of a PDF in the host of other PDFs that represent an online distribution platform. It would seem to me that putting the file in s3 would cost on the order of $0.02 a year.

I would also note that if I remember correctly DTRPG's percentage is 30 or 35%, and the publisher gets 65 or 70% (please, anyone feel free to correct me, this is on memory, but I did read something about digital sales on their site). Since this works out to be almost exactly the price Chaosium is publishing it for, seems likely they were putting it up there without adding in the costs of maintenance of an online store, or somehow are incredibly cheap compared to DTRPG.

Seems odd, all things told. Seems like it would be a great generic BRP book.
I'd also add that if downloads of Magic World that require customer service are such a time sink, either they must be selling a lot, or their online store works so poorly, they might want to consider closing it down and moving all their PDF sales to DriveThru.
 
I'd also add that if downloads of Magic World that require customer service are such a time sink, either they must be selling a lot, or their online store works so poorly, they might want to consider closing it down and moving all their PDF sales to DriveThru.

So much this. I've never understood a reason to take the PDFs down other than licensing reasons.
 
I'd also add that if downloads of Magic World that require customer service are such a time sink, either they must be selling a lot, or their online store works so poorly, they might want to consider closing it down and moving all their PDF sales to DriveThru.
well, there is a barrier in buying at $25 vs $15, I suppose. if you sell a pdf for y on DTRPG and for x on your own site, does the amount you sell more cover the differences. No idea what their math there is. But if you make the same amount with DTRPG, but sell less, is that ok? Maybe so.
 
On the topic of prices at Drivethru, MOB at BRPCentral just posted this snippet:

"1 hour ago, NickMiddleton said:
Is the current PDF price of Magic World ($2.99 marked down from $24.42) as a result of a particular sale?
In past five years at DriveThruRPG MW and AS between them have barely sold 2-3 copies a month (if that), so we're gonna see if this moves the needle..."

My guess is no needles will be moved without promotion, but hey if anybody around here was holding out to get a PDF of the game, it's hard to beat $6 for the 2 core books.
 
I tried buying the MW books when they were on sale about a month ago. I couldn't get the sale to complete when I had the books in my cart. I emailed customer service and they told me that they didn't have all the books in the most of the same warehouses any more. I didn't know they have 5 different warehouses. Not way I want to pay the cost to send me books from the other side of the world so I just got the core book. I decided a PDF of the others was ok and got them last week on Drive thru. I emailed Chaosium and they said they had no plans to take them down from there, but took them off their website as they clean it up for their main game lines.

One thing I gotta admit, I have a color hardcover Call of Cthulhu book and its way nicer in layout and art than my MW books.
 
What happens if it's delisted from DTRPG? Do purchasers still retain a download link in their history?
 
Yeah don't get me wrong, I am a fan of MW and will be forever. It's just that I appreciate a publisher's support in terms of spells, scenarios, campaigns, etc.
And folks wonder why I am so anal about open content. In an ideal world why shouldn't Magic World get support from those interested in what it offers.
 
In my experience, yes. That's the case with licensed games that disappear from sale.
What he said. Judges Guild products got pulled for sale from DTRPG but I still have them all my library there.
 
I have the Magic world softcovers on my shelf next to my Stormbringer 4th Ed and Elric! softcovers. It's has been my goto system since 1990. I was thrilled when Magic World first came out. I was really disappointed when it vanished so fast.

I have since made the near complete shift over to Mythras. I still love the MW system but the facts that Mythras is alive, the support is outstanding, and folks like Loz, Releel, Hannu (and countless others) are readily available to answer question means EVERYTHING.
 
I have the Magic world softcovers on my shelf next to my Stormbringer 4th Ed and Elric! softcovers. It's has been my goto system since 1990. I was thrilled when Magic World first came out. I was really disappointed when it vanished so fast.

I have since made the near complete shift over to Mythras. I still love the MW system but the facts that Mythras is alive, the support is outstanding, and folks like Loz, Releel, Hannu (and countless others) are readily available to answer question means EVERYTHING.
I'm still working up the courage to run Mythras (and probably will once my long-running Magic World/Dolmenwood campaign comes to a natural conclusion). But you're right, TDM is the gold standard for D100 publishers (and most publishers); high quality products and friendly to boot. Loz Loz and Pete Nash deserve lots of support and that's only reinforced by the community on Discord and their forums, which have always been very friendly and a great resource.
 
I'm still working up the courage to run Mythras (and probably will once my long-running Magic World/Dolmenwood campaign comes to a natural conclusion). But you're right, TDM is the gold standard for D100 publishers (and most publishers); high quality products and friendly to boot. Loz Loz and Pete Nash deserve lots of support and that's only reinforced by the community on Discord and their forums, which have always been very friendly and a great resource.
Yeah and look how well researched TDM games are. Books like Mythic Rome are the gold standard in the RPG world.
 
How does Magic World compare to OpenQuest for a rules-lighter d100 option?

I’m currently running Mythras, so I think I’d use OpenQuest for a rules-lighter option but as it’s my first d100 system, I often wonder how I’d like BRP, Magic World and RuneQuest 2, 3, and G.

And does Magic World Advanced Sorcery have any use for a Mythras GM?
 
How does Magic World compare to OpenQuest for a rules-lighter d100 option?

I’m currently running Mythras, so I think I’d use OpenQuest for a rules-lighter option but as it’s my first d100 system, I often wonder how I’d like BRP, Magic World and RuneQuest 2, 3, and G.

And does Magic World Advanced Sorcery have any use for a Mythras GM?
I'd say Magic World is a bit meatier than OpenQuest: More levels of success to compare, it uses variable armor vs. static, MW has a major wounds table to simulate limb loss and catastrophic injuries, it has a more comprehensive weapons and equipment list. However Sorcery is simpler in some ways (no magnitude, etc.), but Advanced Sorcery gives you several more systems to play with: An open-ended casting system with Deep Magic, a rune-based magic system, Necromantic incantations, Fey Magic, and some expanded herbology, and a pretty useful system for characters with 101+ skills called "arete."

As for the usefulness of Advanced Sorcery for Mythras, it's like most BRP-type magic systems, it's easy to bolt it on to another chassis without breaking anything and can be easily adapted if you want to tweak it a bit.
 
How does Magic World compare to OpenQuest for a rules-lighter d100 option?

I’m currently running Mythras, so I think I’d use OpenQuest for a rules-lighter option but as it’s my first d100 system, I often wonder how I’d like BRP, Magic World and RuneQuest 2, 3, and G.

And does Magic World Advanced Sorcery have any use for a Mythras GM?
I would advise getting RuneQuest: Adventures In Glorantha if you specifically want to play in Glorantha.
Which is a great reason to buy RQG, but certainly not one that will appeal to everyone.
RQG runs pretty much on an early version of the BRP game engine (RQ2), with some later ideas bolted on from RQ3 and Pendragon.
It is really good, but in some areas it does feel a little clunky at times to me. The skill list is quite cumbersome, and I don't like the way base chances were calculated in classic BRP games. It's not a big deal I suppose, but it niggles me. There's still lots to love about it.
However the setting of Glorantha is very richly portrayed in RQG, and that is the main reason to buy it.

Mythras is very similar to the RuneQuest game engine, but feels a bit more edited and improved to me.
It hits the same beats, but does it better - but this is really just my personal preference. They are both BRP games, and very similar.
But yeah, Mythras just finely tuned RQ to hum how I prefer it these days.

If you already run Mythras, then I feel that OpenQuest may be a better fit for a rules-lite BRP than Magic World is.
OQ is more aligned with Mythras due to both of these versions of BRP stemming from the MG RQ SRD.

However alot of the MW Advanced Sorcery book could be bolted onto either OQ or Mythras if you wanted to do it.
A bit fiddily, but easily done.

But its all 'horses-for-courses', as Mythras, OQ, RQG, and MW are all BRP, and are really great games :thumbsup:
 
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Also I believe OQ uses opposed rolls (BOO!) where MW rightly uses the resistance table.

I grew up with D&D, and there’s some things that I like about it due to nostalgia, which people new to old school D&D might not necessarily like. I wonder if the resistance table is similar for people who have played RuneQuest or RQ based systems for a while. What do you think?
 
I grew up with D&D, and there’s some things that I like about it due to nostalgia, which people new to old school D&D might not necessarily like. I wonder if the resistance table is similar for people who have played RuneQuest or RQ based systems for a while. What do you think?
I don't know. I've seen plenty of complaints about the Resistance Table from old BRP grognards on a few forums. Gamers that were glad that it was removed from CoC 7e and newer forms of RQ. (I've not read RQ: AiG, so don't know if it was removed there).

I've played BRP games for quite a few decades now, and don't have a problem with either opposed rolls or the Resistance Table. I prefer the RT in a lighter system (like CoC 1e-6e), as a fast and intuitive resolution tool for the GM. If I'm playing a heavier version of BRP then I lean more towards opposed rolls - because the emphasis is more on grittier mechanics than speed of play.
 
How does Magic World compare to OpenQuest for a rules-lighter d100 option?

I’m currently running Mythras, so I think I’d use OpenQuest for a rules-lighter option but as it’s my first d100 system, I often wonder how I’d like BRP, Magic World and RuneQuest 2, 3, and G.

And does Magic World Advanced Sorcery have any use for a Mythras GM?

You run a good Mythras game. I really think you should stick with it. There isn't anything you could gain from switching other than snipping away some of the rules you've already been using. :smile:

That said, if you do switch I'd go with the simpler system that is currently alive and getting support - and of the ones you listed that'd be the new Open Quest. I supported the kick starter, got the advance PDF proof, and I really like what I see.
 
You run a good Mythras game. I really think you should stick with it. There isn't anything you could gain from switching other than snipping away some of the rules you've already been using. :smile:

I thought I recognized that cat...

Using something like OpenQuest would not be in lieu of Mythras, but rather as an option to play with kids, or do a rules light d100 B/X D&D hack. I could probably just do that with Mythras though if I removed some things, as you mentioned.
 
I grew up with D&D, and there’s some things that I like about it due to nostalgia, which people new to old school D&D might not necessarily like. I wonder if the resistance table is similar for people who have played RuneQuest or RQ based systems for a while. What do you think?
Some people have a 'thing' against tables of any sort. But the Resistance Table in BRP is based on a simple formula that can easily be used on the fly. No need to look things up unless you prefer it.
 
I grew up with D&D, and there’s some things that I like about it due to nostalgia, which people new to old school D&D might not necessarily like. I wonder if the resistance table is similar for people who have played RuneQuest or RQ based systems for a while. What do you think?
I have only been playing Magic World and BRP since late 2015 so I doubt nostalgia applies to me. In any case the resistance table makes more sense than opposed rolls and is easily done in your head (no table needed). There was never a "good" reason to get rid of it.
 
I thought I recognized that cat...

Using something like OpenQuest would not be in lieu of Mythras, but rather as an option to play with kids, or do a rules light d100 B/X D&D hack. I could probably just do that with Mythras though if I removed some things, as you mentioned.

If I were to run Open Quest, I'd totally steal the way Mythras handles task difficulty. I'd also keep Special Effects - though I'd really simplify them. I might steer the fights to have non-lethal conclusions so having a solid set of maneuvers to disarm, knock-over, and whatnot would be nice.

Years ago I ran a con game for kids using a really simplified BRP. I reduced all d100 rolls to d20 rolls a la Pendragon. That way EVERYTHING was d20 roll under. No prep, totally improvised, and we all had a really good time.
 
You run a good Mythras game. I really think you should stick with it. There isn't anything you could gain from switching other than snipping away some of the rules you've already been using. :smile:

That said, if you do switch I'd go with the simpler system that is currently alive and getting support - and of the ones you listed that'd be the new Open Quest. I supported the kick starter, got the advance PDF proof, and I really like what I see.
You guys don't forget the new Jackals is also based on OpenQuest (though I have been told they added some Conan 2D20 things in it) and its absolutely beautiful in terms of production values.
 
I've always thought that the slavish orthodoxy that surrounded the Resistance table was a really weird hill to die on. In BRP it's a trivial task to house-rule something in or out of your game. If you don't like it don't use it. If you like it use it. Done, now move on an play the damn game. It reminds me of High School when the B/X players would get teased by the 1E players for playing "a kids game."
 
I'm not a fan of charts these days unless it is universal as in FASERIP. But I'm not sure if the 7e solution strikes me as easier.

It has been a while, what is the calculation you can use instead of referring to the table?
 
You guys don't forget the new Jackals is also based on OpenQuest (though I have been told they added some Conan 2D20 things in it) and its absolutely beautiful in terms of production values.

It's a beautiful book, to be sure. I like that they weren't afraid to experiment pretty heavily with the Open Quest rules system. They definitely did a really good job of making it their own thing.
 
I've always thought that the slavish orthodoxy that surrounded the Resistance table was a really weird hill to die on.
Is it slavish orthodoxy? Has anyone died on that hill?
I think it's just a preference. I've got a similar preference for using RQ2's method of advancing skills, vs. how Mythras does it... but there are plenty of new things that I do like about Mythras.
 
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