David Johansen
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So, I've been running some in store D&D 5e lately and been reminded how much I hate the magic system. If you want to talk about why the game looks like a bad video game that's where you start.
I guess I should talk about where I'm coming from a bit. I want minor magic to be fairly ubiquitous and powerful magic to be rare, hard to obtain, and note worthy. I want village witches and wise men and two bit hermits and princesses to have access to a little magic. I want mighty sorcerers to guard their secrets jealously. I really hate highly effective tactical magic in rpgs. I also hate class abilities that should be spells like the various specialist wizard stuff in 5e.
Admittedly, while I had some pretty good response for The Arcane Confabulation's magic system as I was writing and rewriting and rewriting it back in the day. Now mostly, people look at it and wonder what the point is. I was trying to produce a sense of magic as a process and a part of the world rather than a long list of combat attacks.
I want the world to be a magical place. Even in Earth's middle ages in Europe the common folk interacted with a magical world. I don't want a world that feels modern or tightly defined, I want ignorance, passion, and fury. I think Runequest does a fairly good job of it but is very limited and structured. My favorite BRP magic system comes from the Worlds of Wonder Magic World booklet a bit limited but more traditional and less trapped in the shammanic / divine paths. Swordbearer certainly makes magic a process and involves the player in the process. DragonQuest is a little too structured and cut and dried though it does capture something awe inspiring in places. Chivalry and Sorcery is pretty good in first edition but third is really structured and has a magic missile analog. Dangerous Journeys Mythus is interesting though it boils down to spell lists. Rolemaster is neat but a bit dry and a bit odd in the structure. The author really had a thing against telekinesis. I always love the Bard and Magent lists but really they're the type of thing I'm complaining about in D&D 5e, even if Volunteer From the Audience is the funniest mind control spell ever. Tunnels and Trolls is arbitrary and weird, I like it for what it is but my Tunnels and Trolls games always wind up really silly. GURPS Magic is amazing, one of my favorites but it's also really dry and rigid. Ritual Path magic is closer to what I like but players always struggle to wrap their heads around it. Galloway's Fantasy Wargaming was really inspirational in terms of thinking about magic, probably because I read it before reading Chivalry and Sorcery. I should probably mention Maelstrom's magic which I read when it came out back in the eighties. It's neat but too open ended, puts too much on the player and GM really. I really liked Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay's magic system in first edition but actively disliked the system used in second edition.
I quite like the first edition Advanced Dungeons & Dragons magic system and would point to it as one of many examples of why the WotC design folks have never understood D&D.
Oh well, those are my thoughts on magic in games, what are yours?
I guess I should talk about where I'm coming from a bit. I want minor magic to be fairly ubiquitous and powerful magic to be rare, hard to obtain, and note worthy. I want village witches and wise men and two bit hermits and princesses to have access to a little magic. I want mighty sorcerers to guard their secrets jealously. I really hate highly effective tactical magic in rpgs. I also hate class abilities that should be spells like the various specialist wizard stuff in 5e.
Admittedly, while I had some pretty good response for The Arcane Confabulation's magic system as I was writing and rewriting and rewriting it back in the day. Now mostly, people look at it and wonder what the point is. I was trying to produce a sense of magic as a process and a part of the world rather than a long list of combat attacks.
I want the world to be a magical place. Even in Earth's middle ages in Europe the common folk interacted with a magical world. I don't want a world that feels modern or tightly defined, I want ignorance, passion, and fury. I think Runequest does a fairly good job of it but is very limited and structured. My favorite BRP magic system comes from the Worlds of Wonder Magic World booklet a bit limited but more traditional and less trapped in the shammanic / divine paths. Swordbearer certainly makes magic a process and involves the player in the process. DragonQuest is a little too structured and cut and dried though it does capture something awe inspiring in places. Chivalry and Sorcery is pretty good in first edition but third is really structured and has a magic missile analog. Dangerous Journeys Mythus is interesting though it boils down to spell lists. Rolemaster is neat but a bit dry and a bit odd in the structure. The author really had a thing against telekinesis. I always love the Bard and Magent lists but really they're the type of thing I'm complaining about in D&D 5e, even if Volunteer From the Audience is the funniest mind control spell ever. Tunnels and Trolls is arbitrary and weird, I like it for what it is but my Tunnels and Trolls games always wind up really silly. GURPS Magic is amazing, one of my favorites but it's also really dry and rigid. Ritual Path magic is closer to what I like but players always struggle to wrap their heads around it. Galloway's Fantasy Wargaming was really inspirational in terms of thinking about magic, probably because I read it before reading Chivalry and Sorcery. I should probably mention Maelstrom's magic which I read when it came out back in the eighties. It's neat but too open ended, puts too much on the player and GM really. I really liked Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay's magic system in first edition but actively disliked the system used in second edition.
I quite like the first edition Advanced Dungeons & Dragons magic system and would point to it as one of many examples of why the WotC design folks have never understood D&D.
Oh well, those are my thoughts on magic in games, what are yours?