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TristramEvans

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We already have an ongoing DC thread, so I figured a thread for the (former) House of Ideas was in order...

Wanted to share this video about Captain Britain, who, growing up, was my favourite Marvel character besides Spider-man


The video deals with the origins of the character, focusing on Alan Moore's reboot, though I was introduced via Excalibur and only later went back and acquired the Moore run and the highly under-rated follow up to Moore's run by Alan Davis.

The character's story was essentially brought to a close in the final issues of Excalibur, a series that was suffering in the early 90s and was at least allowed to go out gracefully rather than be subjected to the grimdark reboot of it's contemporary X-titles. Effectively, Brian's marriage to Meggan and overcoming his alcoholism, while it didn't tie up every loose thread of the series' run, did grant the character something few Superheroes get, a finale that wasn't an imaginary future or alternate universe tale (maybe somewhat ironically as the character that introduced the multiverse to Marvel cannon). The character's been rther clumsily brought back a few times over the years, but one does have a complete epic running from Moore's run on the character (give or take some stuff after Davis left Excalibur that can be skipped) that stands alone and it would be nice to see reprinted in it's entirety some day.

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E-Rocker

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I wasn't too much of a fan of Captain Britain as an individual character, but man, I loved Excalibur. I really enjoyed the slightly goofy tone that set it apart from the rest of the X-books. Also, Kitty has always been one of my most favorite Marvel characters. Since she was the youngest X-Man at the time, she was the one I related to most as a kid reading their adventures.
 

TristramEvans

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June 5th, 1987 was one of the most important days of my life. It was my first trip to the United States, an 8-hour drive from Kingston, Ontario the day before. The occasion? Attending Spider-man's wedding to Mary Jane Watson in Shea Stadium.

It would be hard for me to impress to anyone just how important Spider-man was to me at that age. The only remaining photograph I have from my childhood, taken just three years prior, at Christmas in 1984 shows me holding my Mego Spider-man doll:

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The story, as recounted by my mother later on, was that I pulled back the first rip of wrapping paper on the box revealing the head of the Spider-man figure inside the packaging, and I became so excited that my hands were shaking too rapidly to hold on to the present and I had to hand it to my mom to get her to open it for me.

For a year or more that figure never left my side. I refused to go anywhere without it.

Other stories from that time recounted how, just before the schoolyear started, she bought me a whole new wardrobe of fall and winter clothing (presumably costing several hundred dollars), and was horrified to wake up the next morning and find that I'd used a permanent black marker to draw spider-man style webbing on EVERYthing.

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I was able to procure tickets to the Spider-man wedding through a radio contest. It's one of only 3 such contests that I've ever won in my lifetime, the others being a Patreon miniature giveaway and a Strawberry Shortake figure in a cereal box sweepstakes (which I gave to my sister). It's possible it set me up with some unrealistic expectations towards the odds of winning contests from that point on, which was only tempered through years of loss, but looking back, if I was going to win anything, that was the one that mattered.

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We had binoculars, but even then, it was hard to see anything during the ceremony, performed by Stan Lee, with actors portraying Spidey and Mary Jane, and a host of other costumed Marvel heroes and villains, along with a few member of a NY baseball team to this day I can't recall the name of. But there was an autograph period afterwards, and while the wait seemed like forever (an hour is an eternity at that age, and it was probably at least that long or more of a lineup), eventually I did get up to the happy couple and Stan Lee. My mother had to speak for me, I couldn't really say a word. Stan Lee handed me a pre-autographed photo and a plastic baggie of knick-naks, the guy playing Spider-man said some corny pre-prepared line, but I bee-lined straight for MJ, and got a hug and a kiss.

It's entirely possible that my obsession with redheads started at that exact moment.

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PolarBlues

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For me it was this issue that changed everything. Technically it was a reprint, as we didn't get American comics but rather reprints that were years behind the US and generally comibine two or three different comic book titles.

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But this was the story that got me hooked. The FF face the rutheless Frightful Four and comprehensively defeated. There is no happy ending. And this one incident leads us straight into Daredevil leading the powerless FF againt Doom, the Battle of Baxter building, the brutal betrayal of Ben Grimm, Inhumans, Silver Surfer, Galactus, Dr Doom stealing Surfer's powers, Black Panter and Wakanda... Every story was connect natually to the next, every even foreshadowed. In hindsight, it is hard to imagine a more magical moment to get into superheroes.
 

E-Rocker

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I started reading comic books nearly as soon as I could read at all, with "funny animal" comics like Donald Duck, Daffy Duck, etc., so my first entry point to Marvel Comics was Peter Porker, The Spectacular Spider-Ham. From there I became interested in the mainstream Marvel Universe, first via The West Coast Avengers. Fairly soon, I was reading every Marvel title I could get my hands on.
 

TristramEvans

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Spider-ham is one of my favourites to this day. I got a thrill that hit me right in the childhood when she showed up in Into the Spider-verse (and got that same thrill again in the INsanely awesome post-credits scene).

There's been talk of him getting his own flick.
 

Endless Flight

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This is how I got a started with Marvel, and really comic book reading. I got G.I.Joe #1 for Christmas one year in my stocking along with several of the toys under the tree. I think Snake-Eyes, Rock ‘N Roll and the MOBAT were some of them.

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Voros

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The first comic my Mom bought me.

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First comic I bought myself.

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Ironically that issue is the one that helped introduce The Maurauders and the crippling of The Angel. But over the next few years I started to feel my interest in the darker turn the X-Men comics took less to my taste than the 70s comics I discovered via Classic X-Men, where they felt more like a family, more touches of humour and the romance between Scott/Jean and Kitty/Colossus made it sweeter and more touching.

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For that reason I was also a fan of Excalibur and comics aimed more at kids like the aforementioned Spider-Ham and the underrated Power Pack, I responded to the colour and clean lines of PP just as I did to Arthur Adams and Walter Simonson's art in X-Men, X-Factor and Thor. And of course that the superheroes were kids with parents.

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At the same time I was a big Savage Sword of Conan kid, collecting them cheap out of the dollar bins along with old Mad Magazines. They were the ultimate in ultraviolent, adolescent power fantasy with sexy, semi-nude princesses and picts getting their heads chopped off.

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But my brother was reading Daredevil and I discovered the Born Again storyline. It still impressss me as one of the best attempts to tell an 'adult' storyline in superhero comics, easily the best thing Miller wrote and Mazzucchelli's art is first rate, a dynamic improvement on his Year One work I think. Soon after I discovered Dark Knight and Watchmen but Miller/Mazzucchelli's work here is just as good and as little understood by its many imitators in my opinion (although I think Fraction's early Hawkeye comics capture some of its magic).

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Silverlion

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I was hooked by FF#215-216, I'd never read comics before that. It was bought on a rainy day at my grandparent's lakeside mobile home because we couldn't fish due to the weather. I didn't read much FF, but I was drawn to giving way to reading comics, as I realized some actually tested my reading ability (I was reading reasonably adult books at that point.) I got hooked on New Mutant and X-men and read those for years, picking up Spider-Man when I could as well.

I didn't run into Captain Britain until I found a crossover (original costume) with Spider-man in the back issue bins decades later.

I'd never read the original, although I did get Excaliber when it came out and became fond of him. I didn't know he and Psylocke were related for a bit.) I always liked his original costume when I learned of it, but I admit his later one--and larger build was an interesting change that worked. I wish I'd had the option to pick up reprints of the colored Black and White issues. Never knew they were available, 2002 was a rough year pre-hell 2004. Anyway, but I always liked the X-titles, and read a lot, I also try a lot of different titles here and there, but many of those were short-run non-Marvel comics. Sometimes in the 90's I lost a lot of interest, too many of the characters I liked were written out of the comics, and then the pre-Image apocalypse hit--which surprisingly at first I gave into but realized later how terrible most of them were. This was when I developed a stronger interest in Captain America and Spider-man.

Now, I pick up a few (3-4?) titles monthly, I tried the new X-men, but they feel too much like bad guys now. (I suspect they ARE.) But I read one Spider-man title, and Ms. Marvel and Squirrel Girl when I can.

It's funny because I used to spend 20-40 dollars on titles (when they were still under 3usd each.) Now? I get far fewer titles. I love some Marvel characters but realize you can't change some of them for me. Like changing Spider-man will never work completely in my lifetime, he has to be Peter Parker. Miles Morales makes an interesting contrast but shouldn't use the name in the 616 universe. I do like him otherwise. I love Spider-Man 2099 though but I miss his original costume. The white one is terrible.

I've read a lot, thanks to hunting down comics from reading the OHATMU, and looking to read about all those characters I had an interest in, and eventually started playing MSH, because of my love for its universe, and the game system. Now? The universe is fun for stories now and then but not always enough to keep me following.

My favorite heroines mostly come from comics: Rachel Summers and Kitty Pryde. A few come from elsewhere, and my love of Moon Knight has grown, as well as Spider-man when well written and always good guy -Captain America
 

TristramEvans

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The 1990's for Marvel was essentially a decade-long dumpster fire, ending in The House that Jack and Stan built declaring bankruptcy and acquired by the House of Mouse. I was driven from the comics that I'd grown up with, eventuually even Spider-man, as the drawn-out and overly gimmicky Clone Saga siphoned any remaining ounce of fun or creativity from the character that had shaped my childhood.

There were, however, the rare exceptions, and one of those was the 1995 mini-series Typhoid done as part of the short lived attempt by Marvel to answer DC's Vertigo comics for mature readers, "Marvel Edge".

Typhoid Mary, created by Anne Nocenti during her legendary run on Daredevil in the late 80s, is one of my favourite female characters in comics of all time. A split personality, Typhoid is sometimes the innocent and naive artist Mary, more often deadly and cynical professional killer Walker, and occasionally psychotic and pyrokinetic Typhoid.

Nocenti returned to the character in this series, drawn by Van Fleet (artist of easily the most under-rated comicbook mini-series of all time, Shadows Fall), and is finally allowed protagonist status rather than playing villainess to an unsuspecting male superhero.

This is essentially a police procedural/detective story, except where the investigator is actually three investigators sharing the same body, who can only communicate their individual progress through the mystery via notes to each other. It is incredibly dark and gritty, and in a better world, would have been the springboard for an ongoing Typhoid series.


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TristramEvans

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Though I'd mostly given up on Marvel by the early aughts, there was a brief period during Jemas's tenure as EiC that a number of books drew me back in. JMS &JrJr's run on Amazing Spider-man I mentioned before, Peter Milligan's run on X-Force with Darwyn Cooke and Allred, BMB's run on Daredevil, and Garth Ennis's Punisher. But easily my favorite from this time period is Mary Jane Loves Spider-man.

Mary Jane Watson is easily one of the most complex and well-developed supporting characters to ever appear in a superhero comic, from her introduction by John Romita Sr, to her eventual relationship with Peter during the Roger Stern era. But you probably wouldn't know it if you just know her from the films.

In as high esteem as I hold the Raimi Spider-man films (well, the first two, at least) the one thing that really annoyed me was his insistence in placing MJ in the "damsel in distress" role - something she was almost never reduced to in the comics. I still recall fondly the issue where Peter is attacked by the robotic Spider-Slayer and MJ promptly just grabs a baseball bat and proceeds to give the robot a thorough thrashing. Meanwhile, in the new films - well, the less said, the better.

This early 2000's series, while it took liberties with continuity, and was ostensibly a blatant attempt to lure in teenage girl readers, is probably the best presentation of her since the Parallel Lives Graphic Novel. Despite the title, this comic is not about Spidey and MJ's relationship. It's essentially a "teen drama" from MJ's PoV, where Peter is, at the start, little more than a background character, a geeky outsider not directly involved in the drama that unfolds. Spider-man, OTOH, is a distant figure that the characters are aware of, as a sort of celebrity, but only rarely ever directly encounter (and those few exceptions are essentially used to emphasize the weight of the much more important drastic changes in the social dynamics of MJ's friend group).

This isn't a superhero series, and it's not Spider-man's story with a different viewpoint narrater - this is the coming of age story of an adolescent girl and her peers, who are dealing with everyday trials and tragedies. It's MTV's My So-Called Life meets Pretty in Pink, in a world where occassionally a guy in a bug-costume shows up.

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Dammit Viktor

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I'm reminded of this. I do not ever like to be reminded of this.

I mentioned, before, I taught myself to read from Marvel Comics. Would have been in the early Eighties, between my fourth and fifth birthdays.I still remember, it was when Ben Grimm was separated from the rest of the Fantastic Four, on that alien planet. I don't remember any others, but I know I owned a lot of them-- just the issues you'd get from those random grab-bags at the grocery store. My mom kept buying those for me until I was in junior high school. What passed for "family life" fell apart after that.

Marvel Comics was in my blood.

Secret Empire destroyed that. I mean, I don't think I'll ever permanently give up on Marvel Comics, the way some other posters here have, but that love has been tainted, it has been poisoned, and it will never be the same again. Marvel Comics is like my once-favorite cousin, just home from rehab after wrapping my car around a tree-- and with all the same people who gave us Secret Empire, and Sins Past, and One More Day still hanging around, my once-favorite cousin smells like he stopped for a drink or seven on his way home to apologize to me.

They might actually sober up one day, maybe, but now it's a little hard to get too attached to anything they have the keys to.
 

TristramEvans

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I was ruminating about this while watching a 6-part retrospective on the series House, MD. The basic premise of the video essayist is the show would have been perfect if they had just ended with (insert arbitrary season/episode). I don't think it's about Marvel or DC specifically, I think it's the nature of serialized entertainment. The set-up of conventional superhero comics does not lend itself to a satisfying story, because it has to keep going. Characters can't grow past a certain point, a rotating creative team means the characters can never have a definitive authorial voice, eventually ideas have to be recycled and the past burned to keep the characters "relevant".

I think the best that we can be thankful for is that we were, in our lifetimes, around for the high point. That we got to experience a time when the ideas were fresh, a wealth of talent were involved, and the characters were defined in the manner that allowed them to forever continue on. It's bittersweet, but no moreso than reaching the ending of a book series you love, as long as you can accept that we, as readers, have to decide on that ending for ourselves, and walk away before we grow to hate the things we once loved.
 

Bunch

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Has anyone tried the idea that the stories and characters have a normal lifespan? Capt America gets old. Sure maybe he lives to 250 but you see him aging and training younger folks who eventually beat him even on his best day and their worst?
It would be interesting to see.
 

Luca

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Not in the ever-running serial big name stories, no. It runs contrary to the business model.
But in comics in general, there's plenty of examples of characters getting old and dying.
 

Voros

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Has anyone tried the idea that the stories and characters have a normal lifespan? Capt America gets old. Sure maybe he lives to 250 but you see him aging and training younger folks who eventually beat him even on his best day and their worst?
It would be interesting to see.

That is the idea behind Spider-Man Life Story, it is a 6-part limited series that tells the 60s years of Spidey's life as if he has aged naturally over that time and ties it to the events of those decades (Vietnam, etc). Not sure how successful it is but the idea is intriguing enough that I'm going to check it out.

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Voros

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I finally got around to reading Jonathan Hickman's much praised House of X/Powers of X and was impressed. He approaches the X-Men here via the same epic sf lense he used in The Nightly News and Pax Romana.

As usual, as with Moore, Brubaker, Aaron, Fraction and Bendis, I think Hickman has done his best work when doing his original comics. But I get that the steady pay cheque and opportunity to write a comic with the characters you grew up loving is too much of a opportunity for anyone to pass up.

Artwise it is fine, a lot of modern mainstream superhero comic art is too slick and grimly macho for me but this doesn't suffer as much from the excesses of our time and the sf imagery is striking and effective, much better than the more conventional superhero stuff which still seems to be more concerned with 'cool' posture panels than I care for.

Like a lot of Big Idea sf over extended time periods of hundreds and thousands of years it is full of extended info-dumps of characters explaining things but I found the ideas and sheer amount of imaginative invention engaging. And really I prefer this to the constant stream of empty, chatty jokes and 'badass' one-liners that seems de rigueur in modern superhero comics.

He introduces an interesting utopian stream into Claremont's longtime dystopian obsessions but I think the series would have stood up best as a self-enclosed What If? limited series rather than a reset for the X-Men as I don't think a utopia or extreme dystopia are particularly engaging settings for a superhero comic over the long run. In addition Hickman's approach, world-building and tone are so eccentric I don't see how other writers will possibily succeed playing around in it. Like Morrison's great run on X-Men I suspect the imitators to follow will just end up making an incoherent mess as they attempt to ape it.

So I'm content with having read just this series and don't feel any need to jump into the subsquent series, even under Claremont I felt the X-comics became too convoluted for their own good. I think I've lost interest in the endless serial approach of most superhero comics and just as I prefer the unity and wholeness of a single novel to the churn of fantasy trilogies I find myself preferring limited series and arcs in the few superhero comics I still bother to read.

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TristramEvans

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Has anyone tried the idea that the stories and characters have a normal lifespan? Capt America gets old. Sure maybe he lives to 250 but you see him aging and training younger folks who eventually beat him even on his best day and their worst?
It would be interesting to see.


Well, Cerebus did that, but it didn't go well for other reasons....
 

Simon Hogwood

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That is the idea behind Spider-Man Life Story, it is a 6-part limited series that tells the 60s years of Spidey's life as if he has aged naturally over that time and ties it to the events of those decades (Vietnam, etc). Not sure how successful it is but the idea is intriguing enough that I'm going to check it out.
It's pretty good, although I wish that the story focused more on Peter and less on referencing the big crossovers of the eras. Of necessity the story is truncated as it is, do we really need to see Battleworld again?
 

BlackWolf

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What do you guys think about Silver Surfer?
I'm not super into super-heroes, but these grabed my attention:

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They are on sale here on amazon, and I was wandering if anyone could sell me into pulling the trigger.
 

David Johansen

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I always liked the Surfer because Galactus would show up a lot and he’s one of my favorite cosmic entities.
Did you read the Ultimates squared series where they reboot Galactus and turn him into the Life Bringer that gives life to new worlds. It was awesome. Sadly like everything I like it got cancelled and then quickly reversed.
 

Endless Flight

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Mjolnir is but a toy to Galactus. He survived a universe being destroyed and a hammer can take him out?

Laughable.
 

Silverlion

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He introduces an interesting utopian stream into Claremont's longtime dystopian obsessions but I think the series would have stood up best as a self-enclosed What If? limited series rather than a reset for the X-Men as I don't think a utopia or extreme dystopia are particularly engaging settings for a superhero comic over the long run. In addition Hickman's approach, world-building and tone are so eccentric I don't see how other writers will possibily succeed playing around in it. Like Morrison's great run on X-Men I suspect the imitators to follow will just end up making an incoherent mess as they attempt to ape it.

So I'm content with having read just this series and don't feel any need to jump into the subsquent series, even under Claremont I felt the X-comics became too convoluted for their own good. I think I've lost interest in the endless serial approach of most superhero comics and just as I prefer the unity and wholeness of a single novel to the churn of fantasy trilogies I find myself preferring limited series and arcs in the few superhero comics I still bother to read.

I have a very deep feeling, as I've said elsewhere, that I don't think it's a good thing for them to be tied to Krakoa. I have a suspicion that there is a much darker undercurrent here, some manipulation of events by Krakoa. It just doesn't "feel" right to me, many characters are acting enough out of previous character behavior that I suspect its all a (Nemesis) plot (sorry City of Heroes in-joke there.) But I do suspect that something is going on and Moira maybe a pod person and Xavier almost never removes his Cerebro helmet which makes me think he's hiding something underneath. (Sure he can use Telepathy to appear normal, but--is he still?

Kitty not being able to use the Mutant gates, makes me wonder if her power somehow prevents Krakoa from taking her over or feeding on her.

Notably, this stands out from the past: Another team of young mutants, composed of Petra, Darwin, Sway and the third Summers brother Kid Vulcan, from a parallel X-Mansion led by Moira McTaggart, were sent to help the original X-Men. They managed to save Cyclops and returned him to Professor X. However, Krakoa killed Petra and Sway and left Darwin and Kid Vulcan almost dead. Xavier erased all records of the real events and his brother from Cyclops' mind and altered the other mutants' minds to cast the illusion of a speaking, sentient Krakoa. This occurs after it traps and feeds on the original X-men which got us the new team (Storm, Wolverine, Colossus, etc.)

My suspicion is that it's feeding on the mutants and many of them are pod people. Hence the "ease" of resurrection. Sabretooth is one its feeding on without copying. The drugs they're giving away, make me think its even infecting normal humans with a plan to grow from them into new offshoots of itself.

Though this is an out-there theory, I think the combined Okkara/Krakoa is aiming for turning the planet into itself, much like Ego the living planet. It's a mad idea, I realize. Yet, at the same time. It makes sense to me, for so many mutants working together who have mutually opposing values. (They sentence Sabretooth to be sucked down into Krakoa, but not Magneto? And he has killed people, which was their new "first law" no killing normal humans.)
 

PolarBlues

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It's a very fun series, classic pulp scifi with quite a bit of philosophy Stan Lee style. John Buscema's art is the real treat

The story goes that Silver Surfer was a title that Stan was very keen on and John Buscema really gave it his all in the artwork. John was very please with the results but Stan wasn't so impressed, it wasn't Kirby enough for him. Over the years Stan eventually revised his opinion, but his initial reaction stung Buscema and haunted with him for years.

I DVD set on the 90s animated series. The pulp philosophy is hysterical in cartoon format.
 

Voros

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I have a very deep feeling, as I've said elsewhere, that I don't think it's a good thing for them to be tied to Krakoa. I have a suspicion that there is a much darker undercurrent here, some manipulation of events by Krakoa. It just doesn't "feel" right to me, many characters are acting enough out of previous character behavior that I suspect its all a (Nemesis) plot (sorry City of Heroes in-joke there.) But I do suspect that something is going on and Moira maybe a pod person and Xavier almost never removes his Cerebro helmet which makes me think he's hiding something underneath. (Sure he can use Telepathy to appear normal, but--is he still?

Kitty not being able to use the Mutant gates, makes me wonder if her power somehow prevents Krakoa from taking her over or feeding on her.

Notably, this stands out from the past: Another team of young mutants, composed of Petra, Darwin, Sway and the third Summers brother Kid Vulcan, from a parallel X-Mansion led by Moira McTaggart, were sent to help the original X-Men. They managed to save Cyclops and returned him to Professor X. However, Krakoa killed Petra and Sway and left Darwin and Kid Vulcan almost dead. Xavier erased all records of the real events and his brother from Cyclops' mind and altered the other mutants' minds to cast the illusion of a speaking, sentient Krakoa. This occurs after it traps and feeds on the original X-men which got us the new team (Storm, Wolverine, Colossus, etc.)

My suspicion is that it's feeding on the mutants and many of them are pod people. Hence the "ease" of resurrection. Sabretooth is one its feeding on without copying. The drugs they're giving away, make me think its even infecting normal humans with a plan to grow from them into new offshoots of itself.

Though this is an out-there theory, I think the combined Okkara/Krakoa is aiming for turning the planet into itself, much like Ego the living planet. It's a mad idea, I realize. Yet, at the same time. It makes sense to me, for so many mutants working together who have mutually opposing values. (They sentence Sabretooth to be sucked down into Krakoa, but not Magneto? And he has killed people, which was their new "first law" no killing normal humans.)

For sure something is up as is hinted at throughout the comic, most clearly the opposition to bringing back Destiny due to her pre-cog abilities. I think you may be on to something with your last theory, I suspect they may be planning on turning Mutantkind into a Stronghold or Dominion (Moria even refers to Okkara/Krakoa as a 'stronghold' at one point) and Powers of X explains what that term means in Hickman's sf terms.
 

tenbones

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I wouldn't know how to fully express the impact of Marvel Comics on me. The first comic I bought was Strange Tales #178... the beginning of the Adam Warlock "Magus Saga".

From there I amassed a collection of, conservatively, thirty-thousand (probably closer to 50k) comics, going back to the dawn of the Silver age. Near complete runs of the Avengers, Spiderman, Thor, among others - up until the mid-90's.

The only thing relevant is this: Kirby, Lee, and Starlin kicked open these floodgates to my imagination that simply never stopped. All of which led me to my pursuits in philosophy, history, and my own interests in a variety of disciplines. I can easily trace them back to Marvel Comics. And I say that with no shame at all.

My love affair with Marvel ended with One More Day. I stopped collecting everything. It even impacted my love for DC. And now? All I can say is I long for the Jim Shooter era.
 

Silverlion

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The only thing relevant is this: Kirby, Lee, and Starlin kicked open these floodgates to my imagination that simply never stopped. All of which led me to my pursuits in philosophy, history, and my own interests in a variety of disciplines. I can easily trace them back to Marvel Comics. And I say that with no shame at all.

My love affair with Marvel ended with One More Day. I stopped collecting everything. It even impacted my love for DC. And now? All I can say is I long for the Jim Shooter era.


This makes me very sad. I admit I read far fewer titles than I used to--I'd stopped long before one more day, everything but Astro City. Picking the occasional trade or the like (essential, epic collections) but the current run on Amazing Spider-Man, has been very good and is fixing a lot of that very stupid idea. (Not completely, but he seems to be dating MJ.)
 

TristramEvans

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Has anyone read Renew Your Vows? I've been tempted to pick it up, as it seems to be (correct me if I'm wrong) a story told from the conceit that OMD never happened and Pete and MJ stayed married?
 
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