Matt Colville and Strongholds & Streaming

Best Selling RPGs - Available Now @ DriveThruRPG.com

Charlie D

Man on the Silver Mountain
Joined
Aug 28, 2017
Messages
1,667
Reaction score
2,914
I tried to find this video but I couldn’t . Is it on YouTube?
Matthew Colville. The Sandbox vs the Railroad, Running the Game #12
https:
//m.youtube.com/watch?v=EkXMxiAGUWg
 

Allen Varney

Legendary Member
Joined
Aug 14, 2017
Messages
112
Reaction score
523
The Strongholds & Streaming Kickstarter campaign raised a record US$2.1M from 28,918 backers. On his MCDM Productions blog, designer Matt Colville posts a retrospective that I suspect will mark a turning point in the gaming industry. "On old forums where folks have been talking about D&D for 20 years, people are trying to reverse-engineer our success. None of them can fathom what's going on. They've never heard of me. Is there really this much demand for a Strongholds & Followers book for 5th Edition? Have we all been doing this wrong the whole time?
"I am a member of these forums. On some of them, I had tens of thousands of posts back in the late 90s and early 2000s -- back when that industry was my job. None of these people remember me, and why should they? They're all newcomers from my point of view, and I'm a nobody from theirs.
"Some people try to frame the discussion in terms of Streaming. 'The Rise of the Streamer.' None of these people know who streams what, so they assume I am a popular streamer. Some of them know I'm not, but in their minds, being on YouTube and being on Twitch is the same thing. I'm watching the birth of a new generation of grognard.
"I interject and try to explain. The success of the Kickstarter is the success of the YouTube channel. There's no way to understand it otherwise. I don't think they're really interested in my opinion. What do I know? I'm no longer part of that world. I feel very little connection with folks in tabletop now. I realize to me, now, this hobby is something that happens at the table, but the community happens on Twitch and YouTube and Reddit and Twitter. Those are my native environments. I'm pretty sure most of the posters on these forums have no Twitter account. They talk about Twitter like it's a sign of the downfall of western civilization. What would they have made of Elvis and his swiveling hips in the 1950s? Would they have been on the right side of history then?" (McDM Productions):

https://www.mcdmproductions.com/news/2018/3/12/the-end-of-the-beginning

Gareth Skarka, who in a blog post ( http://gmskarka.com/2018/03/12/food-for-thought/ ) quotes the same section I did, also quotes James Wallis on Twitter: "I've thought more than once about putting a performance licence in future games. Just a requirement to give the full title of the game, creators' name, and publisher in any video or audio recording in which the game is played."
 

Apparition

New Generation Grognard
Administrator
Joined
Jul 29, 2017
Messages
2,392
Reaction score
3,899
The Strongholds & Streaming Kickstarter campaign raised a record US$2.1M from 28,918 backers. On his MCDM Productions blog, designer Matt Colville posts a retrospective that I suspect will mark a turning point in the gaming industry. "On old forums where folks have been talking about D&D for 20 years, people are trying to reverse-engineer our success. None of them can fathom what's going on. They've never heard of me. Is there really this much demand for a Strongholds & Followers book for 5th Edition? Have we all been doing this wrong the whole time?
"I am a member of these forums. On some of them, I had tens of thousands of posts back in the late 90s and early 2000s -- back when that industry was my job. None of these people remember me, and why should they? They're all newcomers from my point of view, and I'm a nobody from theirs.
"Some people try to frame the discussion in terms of Streaming. 'The Rise of the Streamer.' None of these people know who streams what, so they assume I am a popular streamer. Some of them know I'm not, but in their minds, being on YouTube and being on Twitch is the same thing. I'm watching the birth of a new generation of grognard.

Wee, I'm finally a grognard!

"I interject and try to explain. The success of the Kickstarter is the success of the YouTube channel. There's no way to understand it otherwise. I don't think they're really interested in my opinion. What do I know? I'm no longer part of that world. I feel very little connection with folks in tabletop now. I realize to me, now, this hobby is something that happens at the table, but the community happens on Twitch and YouTube and Reddit and Twitter. Those are my native environments. I'm pretty sure most of the posters on these forums have no Twitter account. They talk about Twitter like it's a sign of the downfall of western civilization. What would they have made of Elvis and his swiveling hips in the 1950s? Would they have been on the right side of history then?" (McDM Productions):

https://www.mcdmproductions.com/news/2018/3/12/the-end-of-the-beginning

He's right. I certainly don't have a Twitch, Reddit, nor Twitter account. I tried using Twitch once for three minutes a couple of years ago, saw this massive scroll of chat filled with emojis I couldn't make sense of, gave up, and moved on. Twitter may not be the sign of the downfall of western civilization, but it sure isn't helping. "Right side of history." That's one of the most annoying phrases I've ever heard. It grates me every time I come across it, and I've come across it a lot in the past several years. There's no such thing as "the right side of history," there's only history. Nearly everyone thinks that they are on "the right side of history," whatever "side" that may be.
 

Voros

Doomed Investigator
Joined
Sep 23, 2017
Messages
11,496
Reaction score
21,225
I can see both sides. Everything in moderation I say.

Twitter is useful as a news feed, much better the FB, but only if you follow actual, you know, news sources. I also follow designers, writers, artists and filmmakers I like. Anyone who is too much a drama queen I unfollow.

Reddit is shithole, a boring shithole imo, I also can't really forget about their looking the other way re: CP for years upon years.

I prefer Youtube to Twitch, mainly because people can do some editing and production work for Youtube. We even have a thread about Youtube Channels that Don't Suck, that includes (gasp!) Mr. Colville!

About the only video game I'm obsessed enough to watch on Twitch is Dark Souls, watched some speed runs for tips.

And there is a lot of reactionary whining on forums, RPGPub is the exception. That why I dig it.
 
Last edited:

Baulderstone

Moderator
Moderator
Joined
May 13, 2017
Messages
7,363
Reaction score
19,739
I've got a Twitter account. I'm part of the future!
Take us with you, Voros!

Don't... leave.. mmmm....

*Crumbles to ashen dust in the bright light of the future.
IAbout the only video game I'm obsessed enough to watch on Twitch is Dark Souls, watched some speed runs for tips.

I've gotten perversely into watching the slowest, most tranquil games. Watching people play Cities:Skylines is a soothing meditation for me.

And there is a lot of reactionary whining on forums, RPGPub is the exception. That why I dig it.
I completely get why some people aren't into watching people game. I don't understand how certain people dedicate so much time to complaining about it.
 
Last edited:

The Butcher

#keto #ketodiet #ketocooking
Joined
Apr 29, 2017
Messages
4,178
Reaction score
10,058
I've got a Twitter account. I'm part of the future!

55c.jpg
 

Ladybird

TRAHR
Joined
Aug 13, 2017
Messages
3,611
Reaction score
8,907
I remember Matt's posts from arrpeegeedotnet and his blog and always thought he was a pretty smart guy, so I guess I'm not quite in the new generation of grognard yet.

Reddit is shithole, a boring shithole imo, I also can't really forget about their looking the other way re: CP for years upon years.
Reddit's like a lot of social media sites, it's the internet in microcosm; there are some good communities there, there are some hugely awful communities there; but the admins are utter human trash and only take action when their ad revenue gets hit. The RPG communities I'm subbed to are usually pretty nice, but there's always the risk of someone wandering over from one of the more "hostile" subreddits and starting a fight.

I like it, usually, but I can totally understand why people would avoid it.
 

Grelan

Bearded Dagon
Joined
Sep 7, 2017
Messages
269
Reaction score
539
I only started actively using Twitter the last few months, largely to follow Matt. I also follow a number of other RPG authors and a couple of regular authors. I unfollow people as soon as their ratio of political posts to other posts gets above 1/3. It's mainly a traffic driver for me in that people will post links to blog posts or other resources and I'll go check them out. What actually gets posted on Twitter is mostly fluff and self gratification. Learned about a number of kickstarters I ended up backing through Twitter.

Reddit is highly dependent on which subs you frequent. Of the main three D&D subs, only /r/dndnext is any good. The others are mainly art and photo subs. The /r/mattcolville sub has a good community, but the content is mostly new DMs and their problems. I actually quite like /r/RPG, even though its a bit more wild west. Zak S posts there pretty regularly.

I follow a few people on Twitch. I cannot actually watch people play an RPG, no matter who they are. Monte Cook games started a stream of The Strange recently with some of my favorite designers and authors playing, and I can't watch it. I'll skip around and try to get the gist of it, but that's the best I can manage.
 

Ulairi

Pompous Windbag
Joined
May 1, 2017
Messages
656
Reaction score
1,165
Here's an interesting Twitter thread about the tangible impact of streaming on RPG sales. Fred Hicks talking about the sales spikes coinciding with Evil Hat Games products being on one of the bigger and more popular streams.

https://mobile.twitter.com/fredhicks/status/965631462124015616

I think it can impact small publishers like Evil Hat. Especially when the games are narrative or story telling games.

Happy jacks streams gurps and I don’t think it helps GURPS sales. There are so many publishers and a handful of mega popular streamers.
 

Haffrung

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 1, 2018
Messages
40
Reaction score
130
I feel very little connection with folks in tabletop now. I realize to me, now, this hobby is something that happens at the table, but the community happens on Twitch and YouTube and Reddit and Twitter. Those are my native environments. I'm pretty sure most of the posters on these forums have no Twitter account. They talk about Twitter like it's a sign of the downfall of western civilization.

Colville comes across as a little defensive and spiteful here. It's great that more people are being introduced to the hobby through these emerging channels. But that doesn't make the other channels outdated. Some people are video-oriented and some are text-oriented. One isn't a clear advancement over the other - it's just a preference. Personally, I have no use for Twitter because I have no use for tiny snippets of communication. I think in whole paragraphs, and prefer to read whole paragraphs. It's also why I don't text - I can't say what I want to say in 80 characters.

As for Reddit, it's just another forum. I don't understand how it's more welcoming or valuable than any other threaded RPG forum, such as this one or ENWorld. Colville has created a nice little sub-reddit for himself, but that's only because of the popularity of his Youtube channel. For everyone who isn't an RPG celebrity, general all-purpose RPG forums and blogs still have their purpose.
 

Ulairi

Pompous Windbag
Joined
May 1, 2017
Messages
656
Reaction score
1,165
Twitter is a hellscape that has very little actual active engagement outside of the media and entertainment industries. So, no, most people don’t have a Twitter account.
 

Endless Flight

Owns A Few Brain Cells
Administrator
Moderator
Joined
Apr 24, 2017
Messages
10,517
Reaction score
26,060
Sounds like Matt Colville has no use for backwater forums like the Pub. We aren't sophisticated enough.
 

Charlie D

Man on the Silver Mountain
Joined
Aug 28, 2017
Messages
1,667
Reaction score
2,914
Sounds like Matt Colville has no use for backwater forums like the Pub. We aren't sophisticated enough.

Matt Colville is made for video. He modulates his voice, he talks fast, he carefully arranges his gamer gear as background, and even old grognards envy his hair and beard. I'm just glad he choose game designer and not cult leader.

And he has a point. I don't have a Twitter or a Flutter or a Facebook. And I don't know the difference between Twitch and YouTube. I watch YouTube but with the same appreciation an AD&D fighter has for the spaceship in Expedition to the Barrier Peaks. I like it but I in no way understand it.
 
Last edited:

Charlie D

Man on the Silver Mountain
Joined
Aug 28, 2017
Messages
1,667
Reaction score
2,914
I did some research. YouTube traditionally shows edited created content while Twitch streams live play. Some Twitchers then put their recorded live play on YouTube. And now both services are starting to provide tools to do both edited content 24-7 and live play.

Yeah, still sound the same to me.
 

Baulderstone

Moderator
Moderator
Joined
May 13, 2017
Messages
7,363
Reaction score
19,739
Matt's coming off a little bitter in that comment, but I can't really fault him. I've been following the conversation elsewhere, and he is getting a lot of bitter resentful crap for having the temerity to dare and have some success growing the RPG scene. I'd be bitter too if I after gaming for decades, I actually had some big success in the field and everyone rushed to be first to disown me as a poser who was ruining roleplaying.
 

Charlie D

Man on the Silver Mountain
Joined
Aug 28, 2017
Messages
1,667
Reaction score
2,914
Matt's coming off a little bitter in that comment, but I can't really fault him. I've been following the conversation elsewhere, and he is getting a lot of bitter resentful crap for having the temerity to dare and have some success growing the RPG scene. I'd be bitter too if I after gaming for decades, I actually had some big success in the field and everyone rushed to be first to disown me as a poser who was ruining roleplaying.

Crabs in a bucket. One tries to climb out the others grab him and try to pull him back.

However, maybe the 2 mil will help soothe him.
 

Ulairi

Pompous Windbag
Joined
May 1, 2017
Messages
656
Reaction score
1,165
Matt's coming off a little bitter in that comment, but I can't really fault him. I've been following the conversation elsewhere, and he is getting a lot of bitter resentful crap for having the temerity to dare and have some success growing the RPG scene. I'd be bitter too if I after gaming for decades, I actually had some big success in the field and everyone rushed to be first to disown me as a poser who was ruining roleplaying.


See.... social media is a cesspool. The funniest thing to me is the people complaining about him are just as new to the hobby as the people they hate. Matt was writing games before it was a fad and hip and we have these twenty somethings mad when they didn’t build it.
 

zunbazu

Member
Joined
Mar 6, 2018
Messages
17
Reaction score
47
Bitterness is par for the course on the internet. But there isn't a whole lot that 2 mil wouldn't soothe, IMO. Best of luck to him, at any rate! It can only be a good thing for the hobby.
 

Ulairi

Pompous Windbag
Joined
May 1, 2017
Messages
656
Reaction score
1,165
One of the best things that’s happened since I’ve gotten old and had children is to learn that not everything is for me and my toys don’t break because something new comes out my books are still okay.
 

Grelan

Bearded Dagon
Joined
Sep 7, 2017
Messages
269
Reaction score
539
One of the best things that’s happened since I’ve gotten old and had children is to learn that not everything is for me and my toys don’t break because something new comes out my books are still okay.

Took the words right out of my mouth! Streaming isn't for me, and I don't understand those who are into it, but more power to them. The hobby is doing well, so I'm happy. Just because I work in technology doesn't mean I need to embrace and love all the changes it's brought.
 

Necrozius

Legendary Member
Joined
Apr 25, 2017
Messages
2,528
Reaction score
4,730
I am deeply envious of others having the talent, time and energy to accomplish such goals. But this is good for the hobby. Now it's socially acceptable to say that you play d&d. Hell some youngsters are in a bit of awe when I tell them I played in the 90s (ninja edit: not at my age, at my experiences, lol)
 

Voros

Doomed Investigator
Joined
Sep 23, 2017
Messages
11,496
Reaction score
21,225
Colville comes across as a little defensive and spiteful here. It's great that more people are being introduced to the hobby through these emerging channels. But that doesn't make the other channels outdated. Some people are video-oriented and some are text-oriented. One isn't a clear advancement over the other - it's just a preference. Personally, I have no use for Twitter because I have no use for tiny snippets of communication. I think in whole paragraphs, and prefer to read whole paragraphs. It's also why I don't text - I can't say what I want to say in 80 characters.

As for Reddit, it's just another forum. I don't understand how it's more welcoming or valuable than any other threaded RPG forum, such as this one or ENWorld. Colville has created a nice little sub-reddit for himself, but that's only because of the popularity of his Youtube channel. For everyone who isn't an RPG celebrity, general all-purpose RPG forums and blogs still have their purpose.

The number of characters is a bit of a misnomer, I often end up reading long pieces about obscure writers from the New York Review of Books and in-depth investigative articles from other sources from the links I find on my Twitter feed.

Like most things it is a tool, it depends on how you decide to use it.

I do think that social media and the net have had a deleterious effect on political discourse, a now popular view that was once dismissed as mere ludditism.

Course I came to that conclusion after reading the articles of the great internet skeptic Evgeny Morozov, from links on Twitter!

At their best forums have the most informed and in depth discussions on certain subjects, usually of a niche pop culture nature, whether RPGs or blaxploitation films, that’s their strength I think.
 
Last edited:

Voros

Doomed Investigator
Joined
Sep 23, 2017
Messages
11,496
Reaction score
21,225
See.... social media is a cesspool. The funniest thing to me is the people complaining about him are just as new to the hobby as the people they hate. Matt was writing games before it was a fad and hip and we have these twenty somethings mad when they didn’t build it.

Its not only 20 somethings, lots of bitter grognards yelling at clouds out there too.

Cerainly the comments on political subjects on Twatter are full of the worse kind of trolls but that’s true across the net (Youtube may be the worse). Forums as much as anywhere these days.
 

Apparition

New Generation Grognard
Administrator
Joined
Jul 29, 2017
Messages
2,392
Reaction score
3,899
Twitter is useful as a news feed, much better the FB, but only if you follow actual, you know, news sources. I also follow designers, writers, artists and filmmakers I like. Anyone who is too much a drama queen I unfollow.

I already use a RSS feed reader to keep up with the news, and unlike Twitter it doesn't expose me to political nonsense comments nor the Kardashians and Jenners. I could see Twitter being useful as a news feed if RSS feeds didn't exist, but they do and have long before Twitter came on the scene.
 

Bookwyrm

Active Member
Joined
Nov 12, 2017
Messages
38
Reaction score
69
I still prefer forums and email to social media; I prefer written content to audio-visual or audio; I may be a luddite. But more popular doesn't always mean better; at most, it means better for most people.

I've enjoyed most of Colville's videos. I don't have the attention span for live streams, but youtube has some good stuff. Much of it would be better (at least for me) as text articles, including at least some of what Colville does.
 

Ladybird

TRAHR
Joined
Aug 13, 2017
Messages
3,611
Reaction score
8,907
Reddit is highly dependent on which subs you frequent. Of the main three D&D subs, only /r/dndnext is any good. The others are mainly art and photo subs. The /r/mattcolville sub has a good community, but the content is mostly new DMs and their problems. I actually quite like /r/RPG, even though its a bit more wild west. Zak S posts there pretty regularly.
I like the art and photo stuff, it's nice seeing other people's visual ideas. The one that really frustrates me is /r/rpgdesign, where it seems like too many questions are "what should be in my RPG" or "is this a good resolution mechanic" without ever having a goal for what they want their RPG to be about, or any context to frame their question in.
 

Ulairi

Pompous Windbag
Joined
May 1, 2017
Messages
656
Reaction score
1,165
Its not only 20 somethings, lots of bitter grognards yelling at clouds out there too.

Cerainly the comments on political subjects on Twatter are full of the worse kind of trolls but that’s true across the net (Youtube may be the worse). Forums as much as anywhere these days.

That’s true. I guess for forums it’s easier for me to decide when I’ll see it versus Twitter where it just shows up.

Hell! The Pundancy is a perfect example of forums being a cesspit and I helped contribute to that mess
 

Apparition

New Generation Grognard
Administrator
Joined
Jul 29, 2017
Messages
2,392
Reaction score
3,899
I had off from work Tuesday, so thanks to this thread I tried watching the first episode of Critical Role. Tried. I made it through about twenty minutes before I turned it off, bored to tears. Then I tried HarmonQuest. I liked that a lot better and binged through the first five episodes. Granted, it's about half-animated and half-live, and doesn't depict tabletop role-playing as I know it, but it was entertaining.
 

Grelan

Bearded Dagon
Joined
Sep 7, 2017
Messages
269
Reaction score
539
I had off from work Tuesday, so thanks to this thread I tried watching the first episode of Critical Role. Tried. I made it through about twenty minutes before I turned it off, bored to tears. Then I tried HarmonQuest. I liked that a lot better and binged through the first five episodes. Granted, it's about half-animated and half-live, and doesn't depict tabletop role-playing as I know it, but it was entertaining.

If you like HarmonQuest, you might also like The Adventure Zone. I've only listened to the first 10 or so, but they're pretty funny.
http://www.maximumfun.org/shows/adventure-zone
 

Ladybird

TRAHR
Joined
Aug 13, 2017
Messages
3,611
Reaction score
8,907
I had off from work Tuesday, so thanks to this thread I tried watching the first episode of Critical Role. Tried. I made it through about twenty minutes before I turned it off, bored to tears.
Someone once insisted on making me watch a segment where the party buys some gunpowder. And I could see why they enjoyed it so much; the GM's character was entertaining, the party reacted well, the scene resolved, there was plenty of chewing the scenery along the way. I could understand why you'd want to virtually hang out with these people. But it was jumping in to the middle of someone's favourite show; I didn't have the context to find it funny myself, only to note that it was funny.
 

Baulderstone

Moderator
Moderator
Joined
May 13, 2017
Messages
7,363
Reaction score
19,739
I had off from work Tuesday, so thanks to this thread I tried watching the first episode of Critical Role. Tried. I made it through about twenty minutes before I turned it off, bored to tears. Then I tried HarmonQuest. I liked that a lot better and binged through the first five episodes. Granted, it's about half-animated and half-live, and doesn't depict tabletop role-playing as I know it, but it was entertaining.
HarmonQuest is very entertaining. Harmon was playing D&D on his podcast regularly for years before the current trend blew up. He also gave us the D&D episodes of Community.

I could quibble about how much HarmonQuest is like a "real" D&D session, but there is no doubt that Harmon is a real gamer who loves the hobby. If anything, the D&D play on Harmontown and HarmonQuest show the versatility and strength of the game. You can RPGs to be anything you want, even a regular segment on a podcast.

Anyway, if anyone wants an accurate portrayal of D&D, Dan Harmon also gave us this painfully honest comedy sketch.
 

Dumarest

Vaquero de Alta California
Joined
Jan 20, 2018
Messages
15,048
Reaction score
30,720
Gareth Skarka, who in a blog post ( http://gmskarka.com/2018/03/12/food-for-thought/ ) quotes the same section I did, also quotes James Wallis on Twitter: "I've thought more than once about putting a performance licence in future games. Just a requirement to give the full title of the game, creators' name, and publisher in any video or audio recording in which the game is played."

Oh, Gareth, you need to actually finish a game before you can put any license in it. Maybe less time blogging and more time delivering on your promises is in order...
 

Dumarest

Vaquero de Alta California
Joined
Jan 20, 2018
Messages
15,048
Reaction score
30,720
Matt's coming off a little bitter in that comment, but I can't really fault him. I've been following the conversation elsewhere, and he is getting a lot of bitter resentful crap for having the temerity to dare and have some success growing the RPG scene. I'd be bitter too if I after gaming for decades, I actually had some big success in the field and everyone rushed to be first to disown me as a poser who was ruining roleplaying.
You're a poseur and you're ruining roleplaying.
 
Cthulhu Mythos - Available Now @ DriveThruRPG.com
Top