Moderation Criticisms

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chuckdee

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What thread? Is it still here? Or nuked from orbit? I'm just curious...
 

Raleel

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I couldn't find one with a mere threadlock, but i'll take this

banned-thor.gif
 

Bourbonjack

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Since this seems to be a running thread on moderation in general, I thought I’d ask this here - is Daniel Fox of Zweihander (”zweihander” on the Pub) banned?

his profile has a title of “Banned Abuser”. Is this actual, or something ironic?
 

Gringnr

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LMAO that is the most passive aggressive moderation this side of TBP/Something Awful.

Like, not even Zak Smith got that treatment.
 
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The Butcher

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Daniel Fox chose a well-loved Pub regular as the target of one of his regular, politically charged smear campaigns — one of the nicest people I have ever met online — by dint of having at one time associated, in a game industry context, with RPGPundit.

And Pundejo is a tool but Fox was way off mark and way out of line taking pot shots at this person. His portrayal of this poster as some sort of Pundit-league alt-right type was vile and baseless. I suspect the mods were bitter because I’m not a mod and fuck yeah I’m bitter.

Factor in his ceaseless shilling and there you have it.

Sorry for bringing up politics. Thought it was necessary for context.
 

Fenris-77

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Daniel Fox chose a well-loved Pub regular as the target of one of his regular, politically charged smear campaigns — one of the nicest people I have ever met online — by dint of having at one time associated, in a game industry context, with RPGPundit.

And Pundejo is a tool but Fox was way off mark and way out of line taking pot shots at this person. His portrayal of this poster as some sort of Pundit-league alt-right type was vile and baseless. I suspect the mods were bitter because I’m not a mod and fuck yeah I’m bitter.

Factor in his ceaseless shilling and there you have it.

Sorry for bringing up politics. Thought it was necessary for context.
I wish I had any idea what all this juicy gossip was about. Friggin' Brazilians and their lack of context... :grin:
 

Gringnr

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Daniel Fox chose a well-loved Pub regular as the target of one of his regular, politically charged smear campaigns — one of the nicest people I have ever met online — by dint of having at one time associated, in a game industry context, with RPGPundit.

And Pundejo is a tool but Fox was way off mark and way out of line taking pot shots at this person. His portrayal of this poster as some sort of Pundit-league alt-right type was vile and baseless. I suspect the mods were bitter because I’m not a mod and fuck yeah I’m bitter.

Factor in his ceaseless shilling and there you have it.

Sorry for bringing up politics. Thought it was necessary for context.
Fair enough, and I can see your point. But on the heels of a member of the mod team encouraging people to pirate Fox's stuff (apparently feeling that Richard Iorio and all of the other contributors to Fox's various projects are acceptable collateral damage in the vendetta against Fox), it cones off as more petty bullshit. Nobody is looking good in this one.

And yeah, Pundejo sucks ass, but I've never seen him encourage pirating people's shit over a personal beef, or giving them a shitty title from behind the safety of the mod console, after they've been banned.
 
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TristramEvans

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Daniel Fox, who claimed to know about the charges of abuse against Zak Smith but still continued to be a working associate with him until those became public, then tried to use the Zak Smith controversy to incite a backlash against completely unrelated people in the hobby that he flat-out lied about (hoping that "guilt by implied association" would be enough to whip up a frenzy of self-righteous online lynchings), was banned for the online harassment of a Pub member, and then lied about why he was banned in a failed attempt to incite a twitter mob against The Pub (hence the reason that it was specified exactly why he was banned on his profile).

I don't have much else to say on the matter. Fuck that guy.

(And yeah, I still don't care if anyone pirates his stuff - hoist the sails and proceed to plunder ye mateys)
 

The Butcher

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Fair enough, and I can see your point. But on the heels of a member of the mod team encouraging people to pirate Fox's stuff (apparently feeling that Richard Iorio and all of the other contributors to Fox's various projects are acceptable collateral damage in the vendetta against Fox), it cones off as more petty bullshit. Nobody is looking good in this one.

And yeah, Pundejo sucks ass, but I've never seen him encourage pirating people's shit over a personal beef, or giving them a shitty title from behind the safety of the mod console, after they've been banned.
Of course it’s petty. It’s Internet elf game drama.

Don’t know that any mods encouraged piracy here — sad if that ever happened.
 

Black Leaf

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Of course it’s petty. It’s Internet elf game drama.

Don’t know that any mods encouraged piracy here — sad if that ever happened.
Tristram did tbf, but he can speak for himself. (It was never official policy or anything; he was speaking as a poster and other people disagreed with him in that thread).

That said, if people think that was morally wrong fair enough, but personally I have trouble seeing "running a harassment campaign to try and ruin someone's professional career" and that as morally equivalent.

And I have particular issues taking moral lectures off someone who chooses in their own words to "stan" the originator of said campaign.

Same as I wouldn't really be inclined to take moral lessons off anyone with a pro Zak tagline.
 

Bourbonjack

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Just for the record, it wasn't changed until after Fox started lying about why he was banned elsewhere.
I found the Twitter post where Daniel goes off on a tirade attempting to portray the Pub as banning him because of his work on inclusion in RPGs. LOL.

His massive ego and narcissism are on full display. A ban is well deserved.

I was once a big Zweihander supporter, but various interactions have soured me on Mr. Fox.

Im pleasantly surprised to find he’s banned from the Pub.
 

Baulderstone

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Just for the record, it wasn't changed until after Fox started lying about why he was banned elsewhere.
To clarify this point, Fox was making tweets that said the Pub banned him because of the diversity in his games. I'd like to think that anyone that posts here regularly would see this as the BS it is, but I'll add that anyone is free to promote, discuss and run his games here. His games aren't the issue.

Fox has a habit of obscuring the reasons for his many, many bans. As his initial claim to fame in the community was being a jerk who disrupted threads to promote his retroclone, he's encouraged the idea that it is the reason his his older bans. That wasn't the case, at least at RPG.net and The RPG Site. He was banned at RPG.net for going into a thread where people were discussing Zak Smith's online harassment and defended Zak's tactics. He was banned from the RPG Site for doxxing. Having people believe you were banned for spamming is preferable to them finding out you were banned for times when your harassment campaigns caught up with you.
That said, if people think that was morally wrong fair enough, but personally I have trouble seeing "running a harassment campaign to try and ruin someone's professional career" and that as morally equivalent.
"Try and ruin" is an understatement. If you want to know why Righteous Blood, Ruthless Blades isn't getting any more support from Osprey despite solid sales and an Ennie win, you can lay that on Fox.
Daniel Fox chose a well-loved Pub regular as the target of one of his regular, politically charged smear campaigns — one of the nicest people I have ever met online — by dint of having at one time associated, in a game industry context, with RPGPundit.

And Pundejo is a tool but Fox was way off mark and way out of line taking pot shots at this person. His portrayal of this poster as some sort of Pundit-league alt-right type was vile and baseless. I suspect the mods were bitter because I’m not a mod and fuck yeah I’m bitter.
I need to add that the game also came out long before Pundit became a political blogger. And to add another dollop of hypocrisy onto Fox, Daniel Iorio, the guy who created Colonial Gothic/Flames of Freedom, also worked on the game on question. Fox made a big deal about excising all content from Colonial Gothic by someone who worked with Pundit years ago, but the game itself was designed by a guy who worked on the exact same project.

And for clarity's sake, I am not implying that Iorio did anything wrong. I'm just spelling out that Fox merely pretends to care about issues when it helps his harrassment campaigns and ignores them when it would get in the way of selling games.
 

Gringnr

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Daniel Fox, who claimed to know about the charges of abuse against Zak Smith but still continued to be a working associate with him until those became public, then tried to use the Zak Smith controversy to incite a backlash against completely unrelated people in the hobby that he flat-out lied about (hoping that "guilt by implied association" would be enough to whip up a frenzy of self-righteous online lynchings), was banned for the online harassment of a Pub member, and then lied about why he was banned in a failed attempt to incite a twitter mob against The Pub (hence the reason that it was specified exactly why he was banned on his profile).

I don't have much else to say on the matter. Fuck that guy.

(And yeah, I still don't care if anyone pirates his stuff - hoist the sails and proceed to plunder ye mateys)
And all the other contributors, hey fuck them, right?
 
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Raleel

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Black Leaf

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Just for clarification, the official board policy on piracy is still:

Administrative Note:

The Pub does not support piracy in any way, shape or form and we do not allow links to specific sites on this forum. This thread is for the discussion of piracy and its effects on the roleplaying game hobby and not as a means to promote the act of piracy itself.

We just don't a) stop moderators from giving their view as posters or b) shut down any discussion that isn't "piracy bad".
 

Endless Flight

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Gringnr

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Tristram did tbf, but he can speak for himself. (It was never official policy or anything; he was speaking as a poster and other people disagreed with him in that thread).

That said, if people think that was morally wrong fair enough, but personally I have trouble seeing "running a harassment campaign to try and ruin someone's professional career" and that as morally equivalent.

And I have particular issues taking moral lectures off someone who chooses in their own words to "stan" the originator of said campaign.

Same as I wouldn't really be inclined to take moral lessons off anyone with a pro Zak tagline.
I chose the DAN THE MAN title as a goof last time he came up. You might as well use my "booty goon" sig as a reason to dismiss my arguments.
 

Gringnr

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No, my pointing out the hypocrisy of Tristram decrying Fox's attempts to whip up "guilt by association", while simultaneously encouraging people to pirate "Fox's" stuff, which has many other contributors who would undoubtedly be affected by such piracy, is absolutely a "moderation criticism".
 

Black Leaf

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I chose the DAN THE MAN title as a goof last time he came up. You might as well use my "booty goon" sig as a reason to dismiss my arguments.
If I changed my title to "Zak saved D&D" as a "goof" would people be justified in drawing wider conclusion about my views on his general behaviour?
 

Endless Flight

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What the moderators think or believe doesn’t necessarily mean it’s Pub policy. They are all entitled to their opinions just like any other member here. Tristram’s opinions about pirating Fox’s material is not a complaint about moderation, it’s a compliant about Tristram. Fox has been dealt with a long time ago and this is not the thread to discuss piracy.
 
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