Moderation Issues

[Lessa]

Mod Edit: please see post #30 for the context of these posts, which I've moved here from the main forum.

Honestly, if you aren't having any emotional reaction, and everything in this thread that you have posted is 100% you on an even keel, I think you are just an asshole. Maybe I'm being generous in assuming that you are getting heated, but I prefer that to assuming you just go around mocking people because you think that is the right thing to do.

It took you all this time to notice that? This guy is the most inadequate moderator I've seen in a long time.

In fact, putting him as "moderator" must already be some joke.

 

[Lessa]

I mean, I also think your posts have gotten heated, and if you aren't getting heated and all your posts are on an even keel, they you are an asshole too.

You know I'm heated. You know that.

 

[EmperorNorton]

TristramEvans I'm talking about how you treat Silva. You call it good natured ribbing, but when someone is clearly heated about something "good natured ribbing" does nothing but inflame them further, and if you don't know that, then your opinion on how social interactions work are kind of suspect in my opinion.

And yes, I am more forgiving of people who lose their temper and act nasty than I am of people who just act nasty. At least if the people who can recognize it and understand it is a fault. People who just act nasty even with no emotional reason don't tend to realize that what they are doing is even a problem.

 

[TristramEvans]

It took you all this time to notice that? This guy is the most inadequate moderator I've seen in a long time.

In fact, putting him as "moderator" must already be some joke.

In what way are you being moderated? I mean, I'm tempted to moderate you over this post, because you've clearly decided that a random personal attack is somehow appropriate, but since I'm involved, I'll leave that to another Mod to avoid the appearance of partiality. Because, how I moderate has ZERO to do with my discussions on the forum. And, I find this a pretty duplicitous and unfounded assertion.

 

[TristramEvans]

TristramEvans I'm talking about how you treat Silva. You call it good natured ribbing, but when someone is clearly heated about something "good natured ribbing" does nothing but inflame them further, and if you don't know that, then your opinion on how social interactions work are kind of suspect in my opinion.

Hm, only good natured ribbing I did of Silva was a joke at his expense for - once again - inserting "sex rules" from an RPG into the conversation. And that was a while back, in the midst of a conversation where several of us were poking fun at each other.

You're claiming Silva is "heated" over that? Well, there are mature ways to deal with that.

Faylar - are you heated over our earlier exchange? seems like I gave you a harder time than Silva, or at least it lasted longer than a single post.

 

[Lessa]

In what way are you being moderated? I mean, I'm tempted to moderate you over this post, because you've clearly decided that a trandom personal attack is somehow appropriate, but since I'm involved, I'll leave that to another Mod to avoid the appearance of impartiality. Because, how I moderate has ZERO to do with my discussions on the forum. And, I find this a pretty duplicitous and unfounded assertion.

Being moderated? Are you fucking kidding or playing dumb? You try to troll me left and right for the most of my staying here, and you wanna talk of moderation, you dumbshit? You're a fucking coward, that's what you are.

At least act like a man and admit you don't like me and try to troll me, instead of hiding behind jokes.

Edit: even Faylar retracted when he felt I was not liking the jokes sometime ago, but you play dumb and continue to pull it off. Like the coward you are. If you don't like me, thats cool, because I don't like you too. But hiding behind sarcasm and jokes is the mark of a coward.

 

[TristramEvans]

Being moderated? Are you fucking kidding or playing dumb? You try to troll me left and right for the most of my staying here, and you wanna talk of moderation, you dumbshit? You're a fucking coward, that's what you are.

At least act like a man and admit, instead of hiding behind jokes.

Maybe you should step back, take a deep breath, and think about things.

 

[Lessa]

Maybe you should step back, take a deep breath, and think about things.

Maybe YOU should step back and reflect on your modus operandi on this forum for a long time now.

 

[Faylar]

Hm, only good natured ribbing I did of Silva was a joke at his expense for - once again - inserting "sex rules" from an RPG into the conversation. And that was a while back, in the midst of a conversation whetre severl of us were poking fun at each other.

You're claiming Silva is "heated" over that? Well, there are mature ways to deal with that.

Faylar - are you heated over our earlier exchange? seems like I gave you a harder time than Silva, or at least it lasted longer than a single post.

Your post put me in heat... you animal.
Naw, I wasn't offended in the least. I just wasn't sure if you were joking about the dead horse bit.

 

[Faylar]

Being moderated? Are you fucking kidding or playing dumb? You try to troll me left and right for the most of my staying here, and you wanna talk of moderation, you dumbshit? You're a fucking coward, that's what you are.

At least act like a man and admit you don't like me and try to troll me, instead of hiding behind jokes.

Edit: even Faylar retracted when he felt I was not liking the jokes sometime ago, but you play dumb and continue to pull it off. Like the coward you are. If you don't like me, thats cool, because I don't like you too. But hiding behind sarcasm and jokes is the mark of a coward.

His and my exchange had nothing to do with you. It was a lewd reference that was growing (for lack of a better word) and I just didn't want to dirty things up more when I couldn't stay in the conversation much longer due to my kids being assholes at home.

 

[Faylar]

Dragging me into this... grumble grumble...
I've said this a lot today...

You two...GO TO THE CORNER!!!

 

[Lessa]

His and my exchange had nothing to do with you. It was a lewd reference that was growing (for lack of a better word) and I just didn't want to dirty things up more when I couldn't stay in the conversation much longer due to my kids being assholes at home.

I'm not talking of this. I'm talking of someting that hapenned in another thread last month or somethng, where he tried to ridicule me (he even used that word) and you supported him. Then you noticed I didn't like the joke and retracted from it. He never did, and continues trying to ridicule or troll most of my posts repeatedly. (as a moderator.. go figure).

 

[TristramEvans]

Dragging me into this... grumble grumble...
I've said this a lot today...

You two...GO TO THE CORNER!!!

Sorry about that, I just wanted to make sure that this wasn't a case where my perceptions of the tone of exchanges in this thread was completely off.

 

[Faylar]

I'm not talking of this. I'm talking of someting that hapenned some time ago, where he tried to ridicule me (he even used that word) and you supported him. Then you noticed I didn't like the joke and retracted from it. He never did, and continues trying to ridicule most of my posts. (as a moderator.. go figure).

Oh, sorry. I dont remember the reference.
I don't actually want to ridicule anyone. I can mistake good natured jokes for ill intended ones. At that point, I usually try and disengage and apologize for my part. Tone on the internet can be hard for me to understand. It's one of my failings and why I took a social media break recently.

 

[TristramEvans]

I'm not talking of this. I'm talking of someting that hapenned in another thread, where he tried to ridicule me (he even used that word) and you supported him. Then you noticed I didn't like the joke and retracted from it. He never did, and continues trying to ridicule most of my posts. (as a moderator.. go figure).

I've never ridiculed you "as a moderator".

As a moderator, I've deleted some of your posts where you were obviously trolling.

But if I ridicule you, I don't use my mod powers to do it. I would consider that an abuse of power, and a violation of my position here at The Pub, which I do take rather seriously.

So...just to check, before this goes any further...

This isn't an elaborate strategy to try and get me angry to prove the accuracy of the Cortex social combat system, is it? Because if so, hurrah sir, a brilliant scheme (if ineffectual in this case).

Assuming sadly that is likely not the case, however, you should recognize that the abrupt change in my demeanor and the tone of my posts does represent me "putting on my Mod hat", as it were, and hence, I'm letting your insults wash off my back and attempting to prevent you from digging too big a hole for yourself.

 

[Lessa]

I've never ridiculed you "as a moderator".

As a moderator, I've deleted some of your posts where you were obviously trolling.

But if I ridicule you, I don't use my mod powers to do it. I would consider that an abuse of power, and a violation of my position here at The Pub, which I do take rather seriously.

So...just to check, before this goes any further...

This isn't an elaborate strategy to try and get me angry to prove the accuracy of the Cortex social combat system, is it? Because if so, hurrah sir, a brilliant scheme (if ineffectual in this case).

Assuming sadly that is likely not the case, however, you should recognize that the abrupt change in my demeanor and the tone of my posts does represent me "putting on my Mod hat", as it were, and hence, I'm letting your insults wash off my back and attempting to prevent you from digging too big a hole for yourself.

Then I ask you from now on to treat me like a moderator, straight, to the point, and with no jokes.

And not as the mocking coward you are as a person.

 

[Endless Flight]

silva I’m not quite sure how you think Tristram is modding you differently than anyone else? I saw one of the posts he deleted of yours and I agreed with it. There’s no personal vendettas that the mods take out on individual posters.

It might be a good idea for everyone to read everything twice before hitting the reply button for awhile.

 

[EmperorNorton]

I don't think Tristram is responding as a moderator, but I do think he can be really abrasive and dismissive of people he disagrees with, possibly without meaning to be. Which can be frustrating to experience when the person IS a moderator.

(I mean I also think Silva is flying off the handle, but on the other hand, he isn't a moderator).

 

[David Johansen]

silva It might be a good idea for everyone to read everything twice before hitting the reply button for awhile.

Posting in good faith and giving other posters (and moderators) the benefit of the doubt might also be in order. Just because someone disagrees strongly with your strongly held opinions of what D&D is and isn't doesn't mean they're secretly plotting the extinction of the duck billed platypus.

 

[TristramEvans]

I don't think Tristram is responding as a moderator, but I do think he can be really abrasive and dismissive of people he disagrees with, possibly without meaning to be.

I accept that is true, and I don't mind anyone calling me out on that. I accept my humour is not shared universally, and that I can be an asshole from time to time( I'm sure Trippy thought so earlier in the thread, and vice-versa. But I don't bear him any ill-will over a spat). I don't expect everyone to get along with me, or like me. And if I cross a line, I don't have a problem addressing that.

But after the last page of insults directed at me, any complaints by certain posters in that regard are rendered ridiculous. There is a matter of degrees.

 

[Faylar]

In all my time here, in all the times people have been in fights or taken swings at TristramEvans I have never once seen him use his mod authority to bully or silence someone else.
He has been no different than any poster her in that regard to my view. I do not think that there is any evidence to him using his mod privilege in an abusive way. I do not dislike you silva and am not just trying to jump in and defend Tristram, but I can't agree with you here. Personal likes or dislikes aside... I just can't see it.
Cooler head prevail, guys, and there are different moderators here. Maybe you two should just use the ignore feature and be done with it.

 

[TristramEvans]

Maybe you two should just use the ignore feature and be done with it.

Sadly the ignore feature is not an option in this case because of the whole moderator thing, but from this point forward any interactions with him will no longer be of that as a poster, as requested.

 

[EmperorNorton]

I accept that is true, and I don't mind anyone calling me out on that. I accept my humour is not shared universally, and that I can be an asshole from time to time( I'm sure Trippy thought so earlier in the thread, and vice-versa. But I don't bear him any ill-will over a spat). I don't expect everyone to get along with me, or like me. And if I cross a line, I don't have a problem addressing that.

But after the last page of insults directed at me, any complaints by certain posters in that regard are rendered ridiculous. There is a matter of degrees.

I don't disagree. Was just pointing out where I could see some of the problems coming from. .

I mean, I clearly disagree on the Cortex system's approach to social stuff, but I don't have a real problem with how you've interacted with me in the thread. But I can see how other people might. (And Silva does seem really easy to set off some days).

 

[Endless Flight]

silva I don’t appreciate your vocabulary in the least. I would encourage some restraint or you’ll be banned from the thread. I did get your PM but I had to sift through the last few pages of this thread and I’m posting here. Not to mention getting a report out of this.

Just because somebody has a reputation for getting angry about things faster is no excuse for behaving worse and expecting people to treat them with dignity and respect and with kid gloves. These are debates about social mechanics in RPGs...

 

[Lessa]

silva I don’t appreciate your vocabulary in the least. I would encourage some restraint or you’ll be banned from the thread. I did get your PM but I had to sift through the last few pages of this thread and I’m posting here. Not to mention getting a report out of this.

Just because somebody has a reputation for getting angry about things faster is no excuse for behaving worse and expecting people to treat them with dignity and respect and with kid gloves. These are debates about social mechanics in RPGs...

Do you have something to say about the other fella behavior? Just curious.

 

[Lessa]

Endless Flight , if the very administrator can't see that one of his moderators is having a toxic behavior toward users, then it means there's nothing to avoid such behavior repeating in the future.

I'm out of here. Consider this a self ban.

 

[Stevethulhu]

TristramEvans I'm talking about how you treat Silva. You call it good natured ribbing, but when someone is clearly heated about something "good natured ribbing" does nothing but inflame them further, and if you don't know that, then your opinion on how social interactions work are kind of suspect in my opinion.

And yes, I am more forgiving of people who lose their temper and act nasty than I am of people who just act nasty. At least if the people who can recognize it and understand it is a fault. People who just act nasty even with no emotional reason don't tend to realize that what they are doing is even a problem.

It's not just Silva. I'm sure half a dozen other people can claim to have been on the receiving end of the same treatment.

 

[TristramEvans]

It's not just Silva. I'm sure half a dozen other people can claim to have been on the receiving end of the same treatment.

if you have an issue with me, I suggest taking it to the site discussion forum. Endless & Baulderstone will be back in the morning and I won't interfere.

 

[Stevethulhu]

if you have an issue with me, I suggest taking it to the site discussion forum. Endless & Baulderstone will be back in the morning and I won't interfere.

Thats right. Go through channels if you have an issue, rather than using sarcasm and bullying tactics.

The same standards should apply for everyone, moderators and posters alike.

 

[TristramEvans]

I've moved the preceeding posts to the Site Discussion forum so it doesn't continue to cause problems in the thread.

For some context, here is the thread from a while ago where Silva first expressed problems with me as a Mod:

I think I'm enjoying boardgames more than RPGs these days

Since I met these thematic boardgames full of roleplayish elements like Mansions of Madness, Arkham Horror, Netrunner, Shinobigami, etc. I came to enjoy them more than fullly-fledged tabletop RPGs. Can't precise the reason but I guess these games have a greater action-to-wait ratio than RPGs and...

www.rpgpub.com

Though, in that thread, Silva sites this thread as the inciting incident:

Sex Moves - The Thread

Okay so since the controversial 'sex moves' of Apocalypse World often come up when discussing it or even other PbtA games that don't have them (the vast majority don't btw) I thought it would be good to have a thread with the actual rules for reference available for those who don't have the game...

www.rpgpub.com

The preceeding posts are taken from this thread: https://www.rpgpub.com/threads/why-d-d.4842/page-13

for context, my first communication with Silva in that thread happened in post #495, leading up the following posts, and, the next day (and the reason for this thread), the follow up by Stevethulhu

I'll leave it up to him to describe how he thinks I used my Mod status to bully him.

 

[Stevethulhu]

I've moved the preceeding posts to the Site Discussion forum so it doesn't continue to cause problems in the thread.

For some context, here is the thread from a while ago where Silva first expressed problems with me as a Mod:

I think I'm enjoying boardgames more than RPGs these days

Since I met these thematic boardgames full of roleplayish elements like Mansions of Madness, Arkham Horror, Netrunner, Shinobigami, etc. I came to enjoy them more than fullly-fledged tabletop RPGs. Can't precise the reason but I guess these games have a greater action-to-wait ratio than RPGs and...

www.rpgpub.com

Though, in that thread, Silva sites this thread as the inciting incident:

Sex Moves - The Thread

Okay so since the controversial 'sex moves' of Apocalypse World often come up when discussing it or even other PbtA games that don't have them (the vast majority don't btw) I thought it would be good to have a thread with the actual rules for reference available for those who don't have the game...

www.rpgpub.com

The preceeding posts are taken from this thread: https://www.rpgpub.com/threads/why-d-d.4842/page-13

for context, my first communication with Silva in that thread happened in post #495, leading up the following posts, and, the next day (and the reason for this thread), the follow up by Stevethulhu

I'll leave it up to him to describe how he thinks I used my Mod status to bully him.

Where did I say you used your mod status to bully me? Though it seems to me that's exactly what you're trying to do now. Using your own mod status to begin an enquiry against yourself is the definition of an abuse of power. You even locked me out of a thread for some reason.

So theres that. Unilateral use on power for your own benefit. And dont tell me it's not. I've moderated forums before. I've been on enough forums to know what I'm seeing on here.

As for your mod status. Your conduct is unbecoming for a moderator. You represent this forum in an official capacity and every post you make can be taken as official forum policy. And dont give me the "I'm just a poster" line. As I said, I've helped to moderate forums and helped run 100+ player online games before now. Heres no escaping that the Moderator tag on every post of yours gives what you post more weight and more authority than a regular poster.

I maintain that you use that position of authority to impose your views and opinions on the forum users.

At this point, you will demand that I prove this. To which is say the burden of proof isnt on me. It's on you to demonstrate that your mod status makes no difference to how your posts are perceived.

The fact that you blocked me from the Why D&D thread tells me that you are now tackling me specifically in a way that says you took an general post as being specifically targeted at you. In other words, you feel that something not aimed was intended for you.

So you cant be as impartial as you claim.

 

[TristramEvans]

Where did I say you used your mod status to bully me? Though it seems to me that's exactly what you're trying to do now. Using your own mod status to begin an enquiry against yourself is the definition of an abuse of power.

Opening a thread for open free discussion of poster(s)' issues with me is an abuse of my power? I think you'll have to unpack that one.

You even locked me out of a thread for some reason.

I did so you would not continue to threadcrap, as you already ignored my suggestion to take the off-topic tangent to the site discussion forum. It's a 24 hour reply ban from the thread.

So theres that. Unilateral use on power for your own benefit. And dont tell me it's not. I've moderated forums before. I've been on enough forums to know what I'm seeing on here.

I'm still not certain how any of this is benefitting me. Please explain from your point of view.

As for your mod status. Your conduct is unbecoming for a moderator. You represent this forum in an official capacity and every post you make can be taken as official forum policy.

And dont give me the "I'm just a poster" line. As I said, I've helped to moderate forums and helped run 100+ player online games before now. Heres no escaping that the Moderator tag on every post of yours gives what you post more weight and more authority than a regular poster.

I maintain that you use that position of authority to impose your views and opinions on the forum users.

Well, obviously I disagree with both the premise (that every post I make represents an official forum policy), or that I've used that to impose views or opinions on anyone, but the reason I opened this thread is that I am not going to assume my perception is infallible. Two posters have thus far expressed issues with how I act as a Mod, aqnd in the interestof fairness, I opened this thread for people to discuss that.

At this point, you will demand that I prove this. To which is say the burden of proof isnt on me. It's on you to demonstrate that your mod status makes no difference to how your posts are perceived.

No, I'm not going to demand anything of you. This is an open discussion, if you want to prove your claims, you can feel free to do so or not. I'd suggest it's in your control to decide the outcome of your accusations. But you are mistaken, as the one who is making the accusations, the "burden of proof", if such a thing existed in this situation, is entirely on you. That's what the whole "innocent until proven guilty" thing means. But this is not a court of law. You've stated that you have issues with me, I am giving you, and anyone else in the forum, an opportunity to discuss that in a way that hopefully will not disrupt conversations in the main forum any further.

The fact that you blocked me from the Why D&D thread tells me that you are now tackling me specifically in a way that says you took an general post as being specifically targeted at you. In other words, you feel that something not aimed was intended for you.

So you cant be as impartial as you claim.

Am I correct in my reading of this that you are claiming that your response in post #27 above was not directed at me? OK, I'm certainly willing to hear your clarification in that regard.

As for impartiality, I make no claim to perfection in that matter. But when I act as a moderator, I do so with the best intentions and with a concerted effort to treat everyone fairly.

 

[CRKrueger]

Oh for God’s Sake, Steve, you’re whining. Let’s talk about what this is really about, your getting pissed in the Gloomwood thread. He didn’t mod you, he dismissed your comment...and you didn’t like it. Oh no.

Silva’s been shit-stirring in threads claiming any game without a boatload of narrative, OOC, metasystems is worthless for a decade now. He needs narrative control and any system without it he eventually tantrums on.

Tristram dropped the hammer on me harder than all of you combined, and in public, as a Mod. I didn’t start my own public, whining thread about it.

 

[TristramEvans]

Yes, I did go off on CRKrueger. I was , in that case, reacting emotionally as I was leaping to the defense of Baulderstone. It was not the most professional of me, and I like to think that I would be more restrained and even-handed if a similiar situation arose. But I also know CRK is a fellow longtime veteran of The Site, so we both have slightly thicker skins in that regard.

 

[CRKrueger]

Endless Flight , if the very administrator can't see that one of his moderators is having a toxic behavior toward users, then it means there's nothing to avoid such behavior repeating in the future.

I'm out of here. Consider this a self ban.

 

[OHT]

Congrats to the Pub and Tristram. You've reached the size of board where some people moan about the posts of staff being representative of the board as a whole. The second step on the ladder of growth.

(Not that it feels great, but every board seems to get there eventually. Just a shame there always seem to be casualties along the way).

 

[TristramEvans]

Congrats to the Pub and Tristram. You've reached the size of board where some people moan about the posts of staff being representative of the board as a whole. The second step on the ladder of growth.

(Not that it feels great, but every board seems to get there eventually. Just a shame there always seem to be casualties along the way).

I'm afraid to ask what the third step is...

 

[Ladybird]

Hm, only good natured ribbing I did of Silva was a joke at his expense for - once again - inserting "sex rules" from an RPG into the conversation. And that was a while back, in the midst of a conversation where several of us were poking fun at each other.

Point the first, they weren't "sex rules", they're rules for intimacy and control over others (And in the case of Monsterhearts particularly, unwilling, because it's a squicky game). I'm really tired of the constant intentional mischaracterisation of rules like that just because they're out of the ordinary for RPG's.

Point the second, they seemed entirely in-context for the discussion of how some games implement social mechanics.

I'm not going to rage out or anything, I just don't like things being intentionally misinterpreted just to mock them.

 

[OHT]

I'm afraid to ask what the third step is...

You'll know it when you step in it.

 

[TristramEvans]

Point the first, they weren't "sex rules", they're rules for intimacy and control over others (And in the case of Monsterhearts particularly, unwilling, because it's squicky). I'm really tired of the constant intentional mischaracterisation of rules like that just because they're out of the ordinary for RPG's.

Point the second, they seemed entirely in-context for the discussion of how some games implement social mechanics.

I'm not going to rage out or anything, I just don't like things being intentionally misinterpreted just to mock them.

You're referring to this post ? The rules for "turning someone on"?



You think it was unfair of me to characterize that example as "sex rules" in a later post?

I'll be honest, I'm not sure if you're being pedantic, or I'm being unfair in this case. I realize I was very flippant in the previous "sex moves" thread, and playing for laughs. (But in both those threads I'll note that Silva chose to bring up rape examples specifically)

If it upsets you this much, however, I will refrain from joking about these rules in the future.