Moderation Issues

[Tommy Brownell]

I don't think he is extremely caustic, but he can, as I said earlier in the thread, be really dismissive and mocking.

Also, I will just say that, I have had more than one person message me that has not been involved in this thread at all to say they have similar concerns to mine. Clearly since they have not reacted to any posts in this thread or made a post, they do not wish to have their names attached to the issue, so I'm not going to say who.

And honestly not wanting to speak up makes sense. Speaking up can get you labeled really quickly, and if you already have concerns about the culture of the moderation, that is not something you want to happen.

As it is, I already feel like I'll always get associated with this now by many users on the forums. And honestly it has seemed like a giant waste of time. I shouldn't have brought it up at all because I doubt that there will be any change.

I hadn't chimed in on this particular issue, but since we're staging a public forum (as it were) over it...

I can't speak to intent, but I thought both of you were perhaps a little saltier than you needed to be, and it escalated WAY harder than it needs to be. I certainly didn't get the "joke" vibe from any of the posts I read. That said, I checked out well before it got to a threadban. I have zero personal beef with either of you, and I tend to read what each of you post (assuming it's a topic I've some interest in) rather than rolling my eyes and skipping it over when I see either name posted.

I've said before that I think moderation here (which is still the best moderation on a gaming forum, IMO) can occasionally make those pokes that can make other people uncomfortable, because they are used to the asshole mods on other boards who will outright nuke you. If a mod poked at me here, I wouldn't have an issue poking back, because I don't think they would be baiting me to ban me. But that's who they are. And if you asked me to be a mod on a forum but didn't want me to engage with the subject matter, there better be a paycheck involved because otherwise I'm wasting my time.

As is the case with about 99% of the issues I've seen on this board, a little bit a of thick skin and a little more consideration about just what you're typing for other people to read could go a long fucking way (and that's not intended at anyone one person, but at literally everybody who posts here).

BUT...I'm just an uneducated Oklahoma hillbilly. And those are the only labels I'll claim.

 

[Baeraad]

As for me being a "very caustic and abrasive" poster - I can't say. I think I'm pretty cuddly and generally good-humoured, but obviously I'm biased.

No. You're caustic. And that's the polite term for it.

Seriously. It's not too long ago I had to drop out of a thread I'd started because the first three replies was you coming at me flinging strawmen with both hands, and that was more stress than I was feeling up to handling right then. I still don't know what the hell that was even about.

I can't point to any example of it affecting your modding, sure enough. But as far as maintaining a welcoming atmosphere goes? Yeah, when one of the most frequent posters - irrespectively of official status or lack thereof - routinely responds to disagreement with some variation of, "that's stupid! You're stupid for saying it! It's so stupid that I'm not going to dignify it by making an argument against it, but I'm still going to stick around and repeat over and over again how stupid it is"... that does something to the forum's character. Certainly it's made me a lot less inclined to start any discussions.

 

[Stevethulhu]

Stevethulhu Just so it’s known, whatever Tristram did in modding those situations, I’ve already said I would have done the same thing. I’m the one who warned Silva that he would be thread-banned if he kept it up and I’m probably the most lenient of the three of us. As far as Norton went, I was about to do something there too but Tristram acted first. Each member basically got a slap on the wrist and reacted differently. We as mods just like to move on afterward and give everyone a new clean slate.

On a personal level, I don’t find Tristram caustic. I won’t name names but the most caustic people here are regular members, some of which have been warned before about their behavior.

I’m genuinely curious how we are becoming like the sites we were set up as a “reaction” to. I’m guessing like RPGnet and the Site? There’s no challenging calls at RPGnet. Usually when you do, you are banned. As far as the Site goes, well, that’s something entirely else. You can just read the first page in their main forum to see.

The fact that he took moderator action over a situation he was personally involved in is what I don't like. What he should have done is call in one of the other mods to take over the situation and take a step back. That way, he's not moderating his own argument.

If you want posters to respect the moderators, you can't let a moderator do this. It's a conflict of interest when you get into an argument with a poster, then threadban that poster. And then start a discussion thread.

 

[TristramEvans]

No. You're caustic. And that's the polite term for it.

Seriously. It's not too long ago I had to drop out of a thread I'd started because the first three replies was you coming at me flinging strawmen with both hands, and that was more stress than I was feeling up to handling right then. I still don't know what the hell that was even about.

It's funny how people interpret things.

I read your link, and I see you describing a situation, and I offered an anecdote I saw as related in regards to my own gaming history, then you said it wasn't what you were talking about, and I said OK, I guess I don't know what you're talking about, and that was the entirity of my interactions with you. I had no idea you felt personally attacked by that, and if you left that thread I can't imagine why it would have anything to do with me.

 

[Faylar]

I'm pretty sure that a thread like this one would not go over as well on one of the other two sites.
No one has been banned, no one has had mod action taken against them that I know of, and no one has been belittled by the mods for making statements against them.
We should consider that before we declare this site TPB or the Site 2.0

 

[Endless Flight]

I don’t want posters to respect moderators. I want them to respect each other. Having moderators is a necessary evil unfortunately.

 

[TristramEvans]

The fact that he took moderator action over a situation he was personally involved in is what I don't like. What he should have done is call in one of the other mods to take over the situation and take a step back. That way, he's not moderating his own argument.

If you want posters to respect the moderators, you can't let a moderator do this. It's a conflict of interest when you get into an argument with a poster, then threadban that poster. And then start a discussion thread.

Again, I wasn't involved in the situation when I "moderated" - here meaning provided you an opportunity to voice your concerns without threadcrapping - your replies - I only interacted with you as a mod, I was not arguing with you, or in an argument with you. And the thing is, you keep wanting to generalize the situation, but it is a specific situation, and I think the reason you want to generalize it is because you know damn well that there isn't anything about my call as a mod that there is to complain about.

 

[TristramEvans]

Speaking up can get you labeled really quickly, and if you already have concerns about the culture of the moderation, that is not something you want to happen.

I mean, are we pretending this is RPGnet now, where you get on the Mod's radar and they will hand out increasing bans for the flimsiest of excuses until they remove you? Because I don't know what "labelling" means in the context of the Pub. No comparable situation has ever happened here.

 

[Faylar]

 

[TristramEvans]

Honestly, right now I'm really depressed over [edited out]. Truth be told, I did briefly consider taking a break simply over that, it was enough to deflate my enthusiasm.

I know that I am not always sunshine and roses in my interactions. I know not everyone is going to get along with me, and not everyone is going to appreciate my sense of humour, which by my own admission runs to the black and sardonic. And I know I can be dismissive and come across as patronizing in arguments (hell, I've had enough girlfriends tell me that).

I'm not apologizing for that, really. I yam what I yam. Endless knew that when we started this venture, anyone who knew me from the Site certainly saw it. I do think I've mellowed ALOT here over how I was at The Site. And honestly, at my age, I'm probably not going to change that much as a person. And, I mean, chances are if you get into it with me, theres something about your personality that I don't like either. Stevethulhu has had a chip on his shoulder about me since, from what I can tell, our interactions in the Generation X thread, it's possibe he's still angry with me for....being patronizing towards children? Silva had definite isses with me, but I'll be honest, I don't really care because I think he was a troll and a perv. It saddens me that Norton has issues with me, I don't really have any with him, but I've tried to be fair about that, and a lot of it ultimately seems to come from a difference in perception. And other folks are inevitably going to percieve things differently than I do, that's the reality of human interactions.

I'll be honest - and some may disagree, and that's their perogative - I don't think any of my actions as a poster are enough that I should be put on trial over, and I don't think anyone in the course of this thread has demonstrated otherwise. If my status as a mod didn't exist, I don't think anyone could make a reasonable argument for me being banned or disciplined based on any of my interactions. And I think it's a disservice to our other mods to suggest that they would not step in if they did think that I crossed a line, same as any other poster, or would hesitate to, at the very least, confront me or talk to me about an issue they had with me the same as any other poster.

Which leaves the issue of my moderation. And as of now, the only person complaining about my actions as a mod , as far as I can tell, is Stevethulhu.

This thread was originally an opportunity for Steve to voice his concerns. Yeah, I think he was being an asshat with a personal grudge, but because I was acting as a mod, not interacting with him as a poster, I treated him with the respect and fairness I would any other poster, and operated under the assumption he had legitimate concerns.

However, even if I were to accept his assessment that I was involved in the situation that I moderated, the end result of that was....he was given the opportunity to voice his opinions without consequence. If that's the end result of what he sees as "mod corruption", then it's a pretty bizarro world we live in that anyone should start comparing us to certain other forums.

So, at this point, I think I'm going to call this thread pretty much over. Because honestly, with the way I'm feeling today, I'm no longer in a place where I want to be so magnanimous that I'm opening myself up for further potshots taken at me as a poster. If you have an issue with me, PM one of the other mods. And if they decide that there's a problem with me that needs to be addressed, we'll cross that bridge when we get there.

Otherwise, I'm turning over the hourglass on this thread and going to shutter it soon, so if anyone thinks they have a legitimate gripe with me, as a moderator, I suggest voicing that opinion soon.

 

[TheophilusCarter]

Hey, don't forget me. I've complained about your moderation too, after all ...

 

[Postmortem]

We gamers take our games, and our opinions about shit, way too seriously. We are also living in a prickly time filled with plenty of chaos, confusion and miscommunication.

The mod team does a fine job in my book. Tristram included.
Modding is a shit job that can attract certain personality types. Thankfully, not here.

Jury is still out on that new clown though...

 

[A Fiery Flying Roll]

We gamers take our games, and our opinions about shit, way too seriously. We are also living in a prickly time filled with plenty of chaos, confusion and miscommunication.

The mod team does a fine job in my book. Tristram included.
Modding is a shit job that can attract certain personality types. Thankfully, not here.

Jury is still out on that new clown though...

He's a complete wanker, from what I've heard.

 

[Stevethulhu]

Honestly, right now I'm really depressed over Necrozius's abrupt departure from the forum. Truth be told, I did briefly consider taking a break simply over that, it was enough to deflate my enthusiasm. It does feel like I genuinelly lost a friend.

I know that I am not always sunshine and roses in my interactions. I know not everyone is going to get along with me, and not everyone is going to appreciate my sense of humour, which by my own admission runs to the black and sardonic. And I know I can be dismissive and come across as patronizing in arguments (hell, I've had enough girlfriends tell me that).

I'm not apologizing for that, really. I yam what I yam. Endless knew that when we started this venture, anyone who knew me from the Site certainly saw it. I do think I've mellowed ALOT here over how I was at The Site. And honestly, at my age, I'm probably not going to change that much as a person. And, I mean, chances are if you get into it with me, theres something about your personality that I don't like either. Stevethulhu has had a chip on his shoulder about me since, from what I can tell, our interactions in the Generation X thread, it's possibe he's still angry with me for....being patronizing towards children? Silva had definite isses with me, but I'll be honest, I don't really care because I think he was a troll and a perv. It saddens me that Norton has issues with me, I don't really have any with him, but I've tried to be fair about that, and a lot of it ultimately seems to come from a difference in perception. And other folks are inevitably going to percieve things differently than I do, that's the reality of human interactions.

I'll be honest - and some may disagree, and that's their perogative - I don't think any of my actions as a poster are enough that I should be put on trial over, and I don't think anyone in the course of this thread has demonstrated otherwise. If my status as a mod didn't exist, I don't think anyone could make a reasonable argument for me being banned or disciplined based on any of my interactions. And I think it's a disservice to our other mods to suggest that they would not step in if they did think that I crossed a line, same as any other poster, or would hesitate to, at the very least, confront me or talk to me about an issue they had with me the same as any other poster.

Which leaves the issue of my moderation. And as of now, the only person complaining about my actions as a mod , as far as I can tell, is Stevethulhu.

This thread was originally an opportunity for Steve to voice his concerns. Yeah, I think he was being an asshat with a personal grudge, but because I was acting as a mod, not interacting with him as a poster, I treated him with the respect and fairness I would any other poster, and operated under the assumption he had legitimate concerns.

At this point, I can say that I've concluded his concerns are not legitimate. Even if I were to accept his assessment that I was involved in the situation that I moderated, the end result of that was....he was given the opportunity to voice his opinions without consequence. If that's the end result of what he sees as "mod corruption", then it's a pretty bizarro world we live in that anyone should start comparing us to certain other forums.

So, at this point, I think I'm going to call this thread pretty much over. Because honestly, with the way I'm feeling today, I'm no longer in a place where I want to be so magnanimous that I'm opening myself up for further potshots taken at me as a poster. If you have an issue with me, PM one of the other mods. And if they decide that there's a problem with me that needs to be addressed, we'll cross that bridge when we get there.

Otherwise, I'm turning over the hourglass on this thread and going to shutter it soon, so if anyone thinks they have a legitimate gripe with me, as a moderator, I suggest voicing that opinion soon.

I think you mistake me for someone in the 3d world, who has an opinion that matters and thinks that yours does.

I'm not and it doesn't.

Personally, I think you don't have any distinction between mod mode and poster mode. And you should. Other than that, let me communicate in a manner you might understand.

 

[TristramEvans]

according to urban dictionary, that meme indicates that you are angry and embarrassed.

So....have fun with that, I guess?

 

[Postmortem]

That meme is gibberish to me.

Basking in my sweet, sweet ignorance.

 

[Endless Flight]

I’m still waiting for an explanation of how we are turning into a facsimile of places people said they despised. I don’t think I’m going to get a satisfactory answer.

 

[Faylar]

Honestly All I saw in this thread was personal greivences that many of the posters were guilty of themselves.

 

[chuckdee]

Can we go back to the hugs now?

 

[Fenris-77]

The sheer fact that there is a thread to even discuss this issue in an open way, with multiple mods participating, kinda suggests it isn't turning into anything like those sites. Now, I'm not taking sides here, and I just recently had a little dust up with TristramEvans myself, but I read the thread linked to by Baeraad and I don't see the attack there. IDK.

 

[Apparition]