Moderation Issues

[Tommy Brownell]

I think as I turn into an old fart, I have become more able to just ignore folks on forums when they are being outrageous, whoever they are. Pretty rare when I actually block someone.

yep yep yep

Same with engaging situations that I completely realize are just going to go nowhere.

 

[A Fiery Flying Roll]

To balance this all out since so many feel the need to come to CK's defense and I'm the one who recently called him a troll.

When he posts about things he likes and in good faith CK is a good, fun poster.

But I call BS on him not holding grudges, he regularly pops into threads about games he doesn't like and eventually ends up personally insulting posters he's previously butted heads with.

Seen it again and again and to claim he's just making a reasonable point strongly is nonsense, I assume either some have missed this behaviour or are allowing their personal history with him to obscure the obvious.

He will also disengeously poke at the no-politics rule on this site and engages in various other transparent shit-stirring.

Is he purposefully trolling? Hard to say, more likely I'd say he can't help himself.

I will also give him credit for not (as far as I know) running back to RPGSite and shit-talking the Pub as some cowardly regulars from there do.

I'm not calling for CK's head as I think he is often a good member of the forum but I'd like more of us to not rise to his transparent troll bait and encourage him when he posts more constructively rather than enabling him by pretending nothing he does is ever wrong.

Yeah, I'm certainly not claiming Kruger is some kind of Miss Manners. :p

He can be a wind up merchant and how close that is to trolling is largely a matter of perspective.

In terms of grudges, all I can say is I haven't noticed it. But I will observe that it's generally the case that people that seem to have personal beef with each other invariably came here from the RPGsite and those of us who found our way here from elsewhere are much less likely to. So it seems to be the opposite of personal history if that makes sense.

 

[Faylar]

Should we be calling specific people out by name? It seems a bit like airing dirty laundry to me.

Tristram and Silva having a row and now the invention of this thread kind of comes across as looking to make tribes... I don't see how that will help us in the end. Dragging others in just seems to create more battle lines too.
I get that specific behavior is being called out and discussed. That seems on point and valid. I'm just not sure if we are maybe moving towards something unintended?

 

[Faylar]

yep yep yep

Same with engaging situations that I completely realize are just going to go nowhere.

The greatest life lesson I learned in my 30s was how to tell people "Fuck off" it came around the same time that I realized that no matter how much people claimed otherwise... no one ever owes anyone an argument. It was quite liberating and I managed within a couple years to kull a lot of toxic people from my life.

 

[Voros]

Should we be calling specific people out by name? It seems a bit like airing dirty laundry to me.

Tristram and Silva having a row and now the invention of this thread kind of comes across as looking to make tribes... I don't see how that will help us in the end. Dragging others in just seems to create more battle lines too.
I get that specific behavior is being called out and discussed. That seems on point and valid. I'm just not sure if we are maybe moving towards something unintended?

I only did it because so many came to CK's defense and I thought it required a rebuttal for balance. People were defending him by name after all.

 

[under_score]

Agreed, this is quickly turning into Which Side Are You On as each tribe declares their allegiances.
On the other hand, I'm watching the Secrets of Blackmoor documentary and the wargaming history is fantastic so who knows what we might invent if this continues.

 

[Tommy Brownell]

The greatest life lesson I learned in my 30s was how to tell people "Fuck off" it came around the same time that I realized that no matter how much people claimed otherwise... no one ever owes anyone an argument. It was quite liberating and I managed within a couple years to kull a lot of toxic people from my life.

I just chalk mine up to rising cholesterol, rising blood pressure, a disabled daughter who is now 13 and still has the mentality of a 2 year old and increasing job responsibilities all REALLY putting elf game arguments into perspective for me.

 

[Faylar]

I just chalk mine up to rising cholesterol, rising blood pressure, a disabled daughter who is now 13 and still has the mentality of a 2 year old and increasing job responsibilities all REALLY putting elf game arguments into perspective for me.

Yeah, that's familiar. It was when I realized my daughter was mentally disabled that I pretty much started to tell people "I don't have the energy for your Bullshit... take it elsewhere"

 

[Tommy Brownell]

Yeah, that's familiar. It was when I realized my daughter was mentally disabled that I pretty much started to tell people "I don't have the energy for your Bullshit... take it elsewhere"

And look at us. We're practically grown ups.

 

[Faylar]

And look at us. We're practically grown ups.

I still fight against that. dammit. I'm Peter Pan Not Captain hook. (Okay, I could be the Dustin Hoffman Hook. He was pretty awesome)

 

[Voros]

I think you'll find that I haven't bothered to argue with CK about his favourite bugbears in a long while, that's why I'm encouraging others to do the same.

 

[Fenris-77]

Something I find helps me a lot, and we're talking like a hundred thousand posts spread over many forums and 25+ years, is that I try to engage a thread in the spirit it's offered. That doesn't mean that criticism isn't allowed, but I wouldn't, for example, jump into a thread about a new game someone was excited about just to take a crap on their fun. Nor do I spend a lot of time caring about how other people have their fun. I have some great friends that like RPGs I can't stand. Thats ok. There are games I like and games I don't. That's not to say I wont poke fun at someone who's being pretentious. That I can't resist, but even then I try to keep it light. No one posts on a forum to be insulted, or told their fun is badwrongfun.

 

[under_score]

I think you'll find that I haven't bothered to argue with CK about his favourite bugbears in a long while, that's why I'm encouraging others to do the same.

You're still just trying to rally to your banner. CK is no more a troll than a half dozen other posters who happen to align with your opinions, but he's the one you're trying to convince others to ignore.

 

[Voros]

You're still just trying to rally to your banner. CK is no more a troll than a half dozen other posters who happen to align with your opinions, but he's the one you're trying to convince others to ignore.

I'm saying ignore CK when he is being belligerent and abusive or arguing the same old points. That is common sense. And no different than what others have subsquently said but for some reason my post is the one that sets you off?

To claim he is no more abusive than other posters here is really stretching, perhaps you haven't seen him blow up but I have and there are few if any other posters here who do so in as spectacular a manner.

I don't have a 'banner,' I post my own opinions and have very wide taste in games, including 'trad' and more modern games. I agree with CK about a lot regarding D&D, I just don't think that is the only way to play.

 

[Dumarest]

The greatest life lesson I learned in my 30s was how to tell people "Fuck off" it came around the same time that I realized that no matter how much people claimed otherwise... no one ever owes anyone an argument. It was quite liberating and I managed within a couple years to kull a lot of toxic people from my life.

Dude, going Kull on them seems a bit harsh, but I guess if it works, it works!

​

 

[Sommerjon]

Do you want your mod to be an engaged and active member of a community he likes, or that he be forced to not engage with that community except in his role as mod? How would you ever get a good moderator out of that equation? Saying you can only be a mod if you dont have the same fun as the rest of us isn't a good answer.

Why does being engaged in the community mean making dick jokes and throwing shade at other gaming styles?

 

[OHT]

This is rather unedifying.

 

[A Fiery Flying Roll]

Why does being engaged in the community mean making dick jokes and throwing shade at other gaming styles?

I think the issue is more whether mods should be expected to refrain from doing those things if other posters are free to do so.

 

[Sommerjon]

Agreed, this is quickly turning into Which Side Are You On as each tribe declares their allegiances.
On the other hand, I'm watching the Secrets of Blackmoor documentary and the wargaming history is fantastic so who knows what we might invent if this continues.

Sorry bub, but this place started with tribes and allegiances. To think otherwise to being purposefully oblivious.

 

[Fenris-77]

Why does being engaged in the community mean making dick jokes and throwing shade at other gaming styles?

I havent been here long, but I've been here long enough to notice that dick jokes arent solely the province of the mods. Nor is throwing shade. Both shade and dicks abound, which I think is a positive (metaphorically speaking). Being able to joke around without people getting bent out of shape is vanishingly rare on forums these days. I only ended up here because I'm playing in Nobby's SaV game, but once I took a look around, I loved it. You guys have a great thing going here. Having some patience for people playing the dozens isnt too much to ask to prevent this site turning into some of the other RPG sites I post on. Could we not start by assuming it's all in good fun?

 

[under_score]

Sorry bub, but this place started with tribes and allegiances. To think otherwise to being purposefully oblivious.

Aw, did I miss out on the sorting ritual?

 

[Sommerjon]

I think the issue is more whether mods should be expected to refrain from doing those things if other posters are free to do so.

If the purpose in poking the bear is to get the bear to react so you can punish the bear......

 

[Sommerjon]

I havent been here long, but I've been here long enough to notice that dick jokes arent solely the province of the mods. Nor is throwing shade. Both shade and dicks abound, which I think is a positive (metaphorically speaking). Being able to joke around without people getting bent out of shape is vanishingly rare on forums these days. I only ended up here because I'm playing in Nobby's SaV game, but once I took a look around, I loved it. You guys have a great thing going here. Having some patience for people playing the dozens isnt too much to ask to prevent this site turning into some of the other RPG sites I post on. Could we not start by assuming it's all in good fun?

New for you some of these peeps here have been pressing each others buttons for over a decade.

 

[Bunch]

WHile I don't disagree, what is the comment relevant too?

If the purpose in poking the bear is to get the bear to react so you can punish the bear......

My comment relates to both the pokers of the bear and the bear. You don't have to be either. You can ignore the pokers because they add nothing to your message. You can avoid being the bear because being a bear adds nothing to your message.

 

[Dumarest]

Sorry bub, but this place started with tribes and allegiances. To think otherwise to being purposefully oblivious.

What a load of .

I knew one poster ( Voros) here from another forum and wouldn't even talk to him if he didn't still owe me a DragonRaid review.

 

[Fenris-77]

New for you some of these peeps here have been pressing each others buttons for over a decade.

I get that. There's a hoops forum I post on where the dozens goes back 20 years. It doesn't have to be bad though. You just need to be able to let go of things said in the moment. When I was younger I really wasn't that guy, it was all life or death serious. Now though, I do this for fun and there's almost nothing anyone can say that will actually piss me off. I dont post about RPGs to satisfy any needs about personal validation.

 

[Raleel]

Sorry bub, but this place started with tribes and allegiances. To think otherwise to being purposefully oblivious.

in some sense. Many of us came here because we were quite tired of tribes and alliances. except for Dumarest who sprung from the internet, a virgin birth, to bring the dank memes in this dark hour.

 

[Faylar]

If the purpose in poking the bear is to get the bear to react so you can punish the bear......

They don't do that here though. Can you give an example of this happening?
I ask, not to be obtuse or cause friction, but because I honestly can't recall any time this has happened here.

 

[CRKrueger]

To balance this all out since so many feel the need to come to CK's defense and I'm the one who recently called him a troll.

When he posts about things he likes and in good faith CK is a good, fun poster.

But I call BS on him not holding grudges, he regularly pops into threads about games he doesn't like and eventually ends up personally insulting posters he's previously butted heads with.

Seen it again and again and to claim he's just making a reasonable point strongly is nonsense, I assume either some have missed this behaviour or are allowing their personal history with him to obscure the obvious.

He will also disengeously poke at the no-politics rule on this site and engages in various other transparent shit-stirring.

Is he purposefully trolling? Hard to say, more likely I'd say he can't help himself.

I will also give him credit for not (as far as I know) running back to RPGSite and shit-talking the Pub as some cowardly regulars from there do.

I'm not calling for CK's head as I think he is often a good member of the forum but I'd like more of us to not rise to his transparent troll bait and encourage him when he posts more constructively rather than enabling him by pretending nothing he does is ever wrong.

I’ll admit my participation in the Forge Wars left me with pet peeves and very little patience for certain kinds of arguments.
Of course, that’s no different than you needing to insert into every OSR thread how every assumption they make of original play is a lie or mistake, or of your seemingly obsessive need to diminish anything Gygax ever said or did (but he wrote a couple good modules, right ). You’ve been called out by more than me for these things. Trolling, passive aggressive shitposting, or is it you just can’t help yourself?
You like to wade in and pretend you’re above the fray, and call trolls those who cut through your BS.

But, when you’re not grinding an axe, you’re like pretty much everyone here, a good and thoughtful poster.

 

[Faylar]

Hmm... the Pub seems to have it's old married couples.
Some guy is chilling at the bar with his buddies and a beer and along comes his wife yelling at him for not being at home cleaning the cat box.
You guys need to get a room at this point. ;)

 

[The Butcher]

This is as good a moment as any to point out that, having gamed with silva IRL, I was always a bit weirded out by his online persona, which seemed way more confrontative than he is in person (and have told him as much, at least once).

Without getting into too much detail, I had a brisk chat with him over WhatsApp (very brisk, as I was positively swamped with work) and he articulated that taking some time away from internet fora in general would be a good thing for his health.

He does take genuine umbrage at TristramEvans ‘ posts but I (1) honestly haven’t kept up with the whole story, (2) like both of them and (3) have been abundantly guilty of getting my foot into my mouth into the recent past, so who the hell am I to judge either party.

Ah well. Have a big ol’ chill-out everyone. Best of luck to the new mod, whoever he or she turns out to be (great nominations). I know I haven’t been around a lot but I’ll be around.

 

[Dumarest]

Hmm... the Pub seems to have it's old married couples.
Some guy is chilling at the bar with his buddies and a beer and along comes his wife yelling at him for not being at home cleaning the cat box.
You guys need to get a room at this point. ;)

​

 

[TristramEvans]

That thinking comes from being an adult?
Look at it this way do you want the Lifeguard to be in the pool horse-playing around or would you rather have the Lifeguard watching over and doing the small talk with the parents?

Um....are the posters children in this analogy?

At what point is the joking around being done to provoke a mod-able action?

Presumably when a rule is broken

 

[Tommy Brownell]

This is as good a moment as any to point out that, having gamed with silva IRL, I was always a bit weirded out by his online persona, which seemed way more confrontative than he is in person (and have told him as much, at least once).

That is certainly not a trait unique to silva; not that I’m professing to know silva well at all... just that I’ve known a lot of people who are far more confrontational online than in person.

(I’m actually the opposite and have been since I started using my actual name for everything online...makes me think three times about what I’m posting. It’s better that way.)

 

[TristramEvans]

A solution another forum I have been on used, was to that moderators had a moderator and a personal profile. Basically the only publicly known staff there were the admins. But it's probably a bit too late for something like that here.

Well, that was the thinking behind Modbot. I don't think it needs to be anonymous per se, but it would make a clear distinction between posting as a poster and acting as a moderator, without resorting to....red text.

 

[The Butcher]

I don’t know why he thinks Tristram should play it straight and not joke around with him because Tristram is a mod.

To be the tiniest bit more specific, he seemed annoyed that he couldn’t put Tristram on ignore, on account of him being a mod.

I am not defending him in any way or form — he’s a grown man and very capable of defending himself, plus I do believe he gets unnecessarily worked up on internet elfgame talk — but that was the gist of it. Plus, probably, battle scars from RPGnet and theRPGsite as others pointed out.

 

[TristramEvans]

If you're going to do it, I suggest avoiding that particular style.

This was used on the old LARP forum Pagga.

[mod hat on]Both of you need to chill it a bit.[/mod hat off]

It's a bit less formal. And in less serious situations the mods would sometimes mess around with the format with stuff like [mod hat wo

I think we'd still have posters claiming that everythig I say "represents the forum"

 

[CRKrueger]

I only did it because so many came to CK's defense and I thought it required a rebuttal for balance. People were defending him by name after all.

Heh, solely for the sake of balance, of course...

 

[OHT]

That is certainly not a trait unique to silva; not that I’m professing to know silva well at all... just that I’ve known a lot of people who are far more confrontational online than in person.

(I’m actually the opposite and have been since I started using my actual name for everything online...makes me think three times about what I’m posting. It’s better that way.)

My name actually is OTH (pronounced oh-tee-aitch). Not a lot of people know that.

 

[The Butcher]

To balance this all out since so many feel the need to come to CK's defense and I'm the one who recently called him a troll.

When he posts about things he likes and in good faith CK is a good, fun poster.

But I call BS on him not holding grudges, he regularly pops into threads about games he doesn't like and eventually ends up personally insulting posters he's previously butted heads with.

Seen it again and again and to claim he's just making a reasonable point strongly is nonsense, I assume either some have missed this behaviour or are allowing their personal history with him to obscure the obvious.

He will also disengeously poke at the no-politics rule on this site and engages in various other transparent shit-stirring.

Is he purposefully trolling? Hard to say, more likely I'd say he can't help himself.

I will also give him credit for not (as far as I know) running back to RPGSite and shit-talking the Pub as some cowardly regulars from there do.

I'm not calling for CK's head as I think he is often a good member of the forum but I'd like more of us to not rise to his transparent troll bait and encourage him when he posts more constructively rather than enabling him by pretending nothing he does is ever wrong.

CRKrueger might still wear his mid-2000s RPG Kulturkampf decorations on his chest, proud grognard that he is, but he’s mellowed out a ton since the Pub opened.

I understand you and he don’t always see eye to eye, to put it mildly, but I have never witnessed disrespectful or name-calling discourse from either of you and that strikes me as a big difference contrasted with silva (who Krugs also frequently locks horns with, and all in good fun, as far as I could tell).