Moderation Thread

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CRKrueger

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(and you're supposed to have Norton on ignore, remember?)
Sorry, even if I ignore someone I am not going to /Ignore anyone, I’ve said why. I’ve only directly responded to him once, and none of this current drama is about me. :angel:
 

CRKrueger

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So let me be perfectly clear...

You want me to click the Ignore button on Norton, sorry - Not.Gonna.Happen.

You want me to police myself, and stop replying to him or you’re gonna start banning me from threads, ok I can do that.
 

Toadmaster

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So let me be perfectly clear...

You want me to click the Ignore button on Norton, sorry - Not.Gonna.Happen.

You want me to police myself, and stop replying to him or you’re gonna start banning me from threads, ok I can do that.

I get the reluctance to put people on ignore, I've only put a literal handful of people on ignore in the history of the internet. A poster has to be really special to never have anything useful to say. I've gotten a lot better about just not responding to the stupid stuff people say.

Big purple was a good training ground for that as there were definitely posters who were masters of the game of luring people to cross a line without themselves getting on the wrong side of the mods, and the real slime balls ran to the mods as soon as somebody took their bait.

Of course in later years some were so far up the mods backsides that they were literally untouchable so it didn't take much skill on their part.

Hmmm I think it has been almost exactly 5 years since I banned myself from the cesspool.
 

Endless Flight

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The thread is going to open back up. Be patient.
 

K_Peterson

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I've not followed the thread in question, and I generally ignore threads (and posters) when they go at each other. But, this:
um, yeah, to be clear, Norton and CRK, that wasn't a request.
this, is garbage moderation.

It's ridiculous to try to regulate poster interactions in this manner. Warn, temp-ban, or perma-ban posters based on out-of-bounds behavior, but Rpgpub, please don't engage in this stupidity.
 

Endless Flight

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I've not followed the thread in question, and I generally ignore threads (and posters) when they go at each other. But, this:

this, is garbage moderation.

It's ridiculous to try to regulate poster interactions in this manner. Warn, temp-ban, or perma-ban posters based on out-of-bounds behavior, but Rpgpub, please don't engage in this stupidity.

Tristram’s post was to remind those two that they were supposed to put each other on ignore. It wasn’t a request. Now, we could use a colored text when we speak as mods, but we never wanted to do that.

I’m been pondering moderation.On one hand, and it’s my preferred style, is to try let people sort out their differences. Lately though, I’ve been forced to think about how it’s going to go in the future because the Pub is getting busier and unfortunately more moderation will be necessary. I would hate to go down the route of banning more and more people. We’ve only banned a handful permanently and the thread bans haven’t even happened that much, maybe a dozen times. I’d hate to say we are going to be more strict but I can’t promise that. I just think it’s going to be a serious conversation between the four of us backstage about going forward because right now there is some confusion about how we handle things.
 

K_Peterson

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Tristram’s post was to remind those two that they were supposed to put each other on ignore. It wasn’t a request. Now, we could use a colored text when we speak as mods, but we never wanted to do that.
I understood that. And I expressed my distaste to that garbage approach in moderation.

You might not like my opinion; your moderators might not like it either; but I find this approach to be stupid, lax, and it doesn't address the precise root of the problem. It's just passing the buck and the responsibility on to the users, asking them to self-police. If they choose not to, then the problem is still not resolved. And if you slap them for refusing to self-police, you come across as weak-kneed authoritarians instead of... moderators that are setting community standards. ("You will behave!" vs "Your behavior is disruptive in this thread (or to this forum)".

If the two nudniks in question are acting outside-the-bounds of appropriate behavior and are acting disruptive, then take on the responsibility and reprimand them like moderators do. Issue thread-bans; issue temp bans; if it's egregious enough, perma-ban them. Do it transparently; be open about the violation; don't pass the buck.
 

EmperorNorton

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If the two nudniks in question are acting outside-the-bounds of appropriate behavior and are acting disruptive, then take on the responsibility and reprimand them like moderators do. Issue thread-bans; issue temp bans; if it's egregious enough, perma-ban them. Do it transparently; be open about the violation; don't pass the buck.

As one of the two nudniks, this is actually what I've been saying as well. I'd rather you actually say what you see as the problem. Call out what you see as me acting outside the bounds of appropriate behavior. I'm cool with it.

I might not agree with your assessment but at least I will know where the hell I stand.
 

Bunch

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I'll take the other side of that coin. Asking people to police themselves is essential to any society. You can never have enough rules or enforcers to deal with people if they won't self police in either their or the groups self interest.

In this case from what I can tell the problem is the way the participants communicate and understand each other. It seems to exacerbate the worst part of discussions. Asking them to stop dealing with each other does seem to be a reasonable management solution for the peace of the community. It's like having a mutual restraining order. it seems to leave the majority of the forum and it's inhabitants open to interact with. Seems reasonable to me.
 

CRKrueger

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Telling me I can't interact with another poster is controlling someone's actions. Moderators do that essentially when they do any type of ban, whether it's thread, temp or permanent. It's Law Enforcement.

Telling me I must have someone On /Ignore is telling me what I can or cannot read because you know what I'll do with the information. That's Thoughtcrime.
 

CRKrueger

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I'll take the other side of that coin. Asking people to police themselves is essential to any society. You can never have enough rules or enforcers to deal with people if they won't self police in either their or the groups self interest.

In this case from what I can tell the problem is the way the participants communicate and understand each other. It seems to exacerbate the worst part of discussions. Asking them to stop dealing with each other does seem to be a reasonable management solution for the peace of the community. It's like having a mutual restraining order. it seems to leave the majority of the forum and it's inhabitants open to interact with. Seems reasonable to me.

Too bad the Mods can't get people to self-police themselves into scrolling past what annoys them instead of mashing the Report button like a kid who wants his pudding even though he hasn't eaten his meat.
 

Giganotosaurus

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Telling me I must have someone On /Ignore is telling me what I can or cannot read because you know what I'll do with the information. That's Thoughtcrime.
Oh puh-lease! Requiring you to put someone on a ignore list is no more a thought crime than implementing a restraining order is.
 

EmperorNorton

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Just to add, while I said that I'd prefer them to actually just moderate by calling out when people cross the line, I'm fine with the ignore mandate as well.

I don't think it is the ideal way to do it and I don't think it is the way I'd do it, but it also isn't some big deal to me, nor do I think it is necessarily wrong, I'm just going to follow it and go about my life.
 

Bunch

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Too bad the Mods can't get people to self-police themselves into scrolling past what annoys them instead of mashing the Report button like a kid who wants his pudding even though he hasn't eaten his meat.
They're having about as much luck getting people to avoid using condescending and insulting language to deal with other members...
 

CRKrueger

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Oh puh-lease! Requiring you to put someone on a ignore list is no more a thought crime than implementing a restraining order is.
First of all, you don't think talking about a Restraining Order is already so ridiculous that Purple is going to be laughing at us for a change?
We're not talking about threats of real violence.
We're not even talking about threats of online violence.
We're talking about people being annoyed at the way people argue and not being able to avoid the Report Button.

But, lets discuss Restraining Orders anyway, as unsound of a comparison as it is.
A Restraining Order would be saying "You guys respond to each other directly again, and you get a Threadban. Keep doing it and worse will happen."
That's almost the literal translation of a Restraining Order into Forum Law.

Saying "You're not allowed to see what the other person posts in a public venue" would be like a Court mandating that in addition to the Restraining Order, all forms of Social Media must be combed through and blocked.

That's absolutely controlling what people can or cannot read and is such an unbelievably overblown reaction, I can't imagine the current mods even thinking of such a thing.
 

CRKrueger

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They're having about as much luck getting people to avoid using condescending and insulting language to deal with other members...
Sometimes things deserve to be mocked. There's certainly lots of that going around on other topics.
 

Ladybird

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Telling me I can't interact with another poster is controlling someone's actions. Moderators do that essentially when they do any type of ban, whether it's thread, temp or permanent. It's Law Enforcement.
Yes. That's literally their job here. It's what moderators are here to do.

Telling me I must have someone On /Ignore is telling me what I can or cannot read because you know what I'll do with the information. That's Thoughtcrime.
You're not being told off because of what you think about EN. Nobody knows and nobody cares, think whatever you want. You're being told to do this because of the way that you act toward posts or posters that draw your ire, whether you mention the target directly or you include enough references that it's clear who you mean but then don't actually mention them so you can hide behind plausible deniability.

So yeah, you are being told to do this because of what you'll do with the information, but nobody is making you do what you do - that's always a choice that you have made, and ultimately you're just being told to stop doing that.
 

SavAce

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Too bad the Mods can't get people to self-police themselves into scrolling past what annoys them instead of mashing the Report button like a kid who wants his pudding even though he hasn't eaten his meat.
For me, the options aren't "Scroll past" vs. "Mash the Report Button". It's more a matter of... I scroll past, until my scrolling finger routinely gets tired at a site, then I just silently stop going to the site and leave it to the couple arguing in the apartment or whatever.
 

CRKrueger

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Yes. That's literally their job here. It's what moderators are here to do.


You're not being told off because of what you think about EN. Nobody knows and nobody cares, think whatever you want. You're being told to do this because of the way that you act toward posts or posters that draw your ire, whether you mention the target directly or you include enough references that it's clear who you mean but then don't actually mention them so you can hide behind plausible deniability.

So yeah, you are being told to do this because of what you'll do with the information, but nobody is making you do what you do - that's always a choice that you have made, and ultimately you're just being told to stop doing that.
You seem pretty confident on all the Whats and Whys, been sitting on Mod Threads? :quiet: We know at least why you're mashing the Report Button. :tongue:
 

TristramEvans

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So let me be perfectly clear...

You want me to click the Ignore button on Norton, sorry - Not.Gonna.Happen.

You want me to police myself, and stop replying to him or you’re gonna start banning me from threads, ok I can do that.

Telling me I can't interact with another poster is controlling someone's actions. Moderators do that essentially when they do any type of ban, whether it's thread, temp or permanent. It's Law Enforcement.

Telling me I must have someone On /Ignore is telling me what I can or cannot read because you know what I'll do with the information. That's Thoughtcrime.


Weird fucking Hill man. Let me be clear: I don't give a shit if either of you literally use the Ignore List button, if you can bth restrain from talking to or about one another. But not even two days go by and you're here in the thread talking about what Norton's saying in a thread. I would have had no idea if you'd used your IL button or not if you hadn't blatantly shwn your hand.. Saying you prefer we constantly threadban you instead because you can't exhibit any self control in that regard is just so pouty and and churlish. Nobody here cares one wit "what you'll do with that information", I don't even have any idea what you mean by that. We're just sick of the two of you constantly at each other's throats and the sniping between the two of you taking over multiple threads. Because the underlying problem is that both of you react to one another like the other person has a secret agenda, or you're continuing some ongoing spat from prehistory.

Fucking "thought crime" indeed....more like bloody Drama Queening.



I've not followed the thread in question, and I generally ignore threads (and posters) when they go at each other. But, this:

this, is garbage moderation.

It's ridiculous to try to regulate poster interactions in this manner. Warn, temp-ban, or perma-ban posters based on out-of-bounds behavior, but Rpgpub, please don't engage in this stupidity.

I understood that. And I expressed my distaste to that garbage approach in moderation.

You might not like my opinion; your moderators might not like it either; but I find this approach to be stupid, lax, and it doesn't address the precise root of the problem. It's just passing the buck and the responsibility on to the users, asking them to self-police. If they choose not to, then the problem is still not resolved. And if you slap them for refusing to self-police, you come across as weak-kneed authoritarians instead of... moderators that are setting community standards. ("You will behave!" vs "Your behavior is disruptive in this thread (or to this forum)".

If the two nudniks in question are acting outside-the-bounds of appropriate behavior and are acting disruptive, then take on the responsibility and reprimand them like moderators do. Issue thread-bans; issue temp bans; if it's egregious enough, perma-ban them. Do it transparently; be open about the violation; don't pass the buck.

The solution you're proposing isn't what we want. I don't want to ban Kruegar, and I don't want to ban Norton. We just don't want threads to constanty be derailed in regular Norton vs Kruegar sniping battles. That IS the root of the problem.

Simply throwing out bans left and right is heavy-handed, TBP bullshit.
 
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Ladybird

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You seem pretty confident on all the Whats and Whys, been sitting on Mod Threads? :quiet:
Er... I'm not a moderator? I've just read all the same posts about it here as you have.

We know at least why you're mashing the Report Button. :tongue:
FWIW I think I've reported two of your posts, one just after the forum started and a spat between us got dragged into someone's publicity thread (Because I didn't mind you going at me but dragging bystanders into it seemed unfair), and I can't remember what the other one was but it wasn't recent.

You're welcome to believe me or not, but I have no reason to lie.
 

CRKrueger

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Er... I'm not a moderator? I've just read all the same posts about it here as you have.


FWIW I think I've reported two of your posts, one just after the forum started and a spat between us got dragged into someone's publicity thread (Because I didn't mind you going at me but dragging bystanders into it seemed unfair), and I can't remember what the other one was but it wasn't recent.

You're welcome to believe me or not, but I have no reason to lie.
Fair enough. :thumbsup:
 

K_Peterson

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The solution you're proposing isn't what we want. I don't want to ban Kruegar, and I don't want to ban Norton. We just don't want threads to constantly be derailed in regular Norton vs Kruegar sniping battles. That IS the root of the problem.
Then what are you going to do about it? What is your solution? Pushing the responsibility on to them clearly isn't solving the problem.
Simply throwing out bans left and right is heavy-handed, TBP bullshit.
Agreed. That should be avoided at all costs, IMO.

But there have got to be some steps between saying "please play nice, guys" ad nauseum and "you're kicked out of this bar, never to return". Some kind of escalation or plan to deal with this.
 

CRKrueger

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Weird fucking Hill man. Let me be clear: I don't give a shit if either of you literally use the Ignore List button, if you can bth restrain from talking to or about one another. But not even two days go by and you're here in the thread talking about what Norton's saying in a thread. I would have had no idea if you'd used your IL button or not if you hadn't blatantly shwn your hand.. Saying you prefer we constantly threadban you instead because you can't exhibit any self control in that regard is just so pouty and and churlish. Nobody here cares one wit "what you'll do with that information", I don't even have any idea what you mean by that. We're just sick of the two of you constantly at each other's throats and the sniping between the two of you taking over multiple threads. Because the underlying problem is that both of you react to one another like the other person has a secret agenda.

Fucking "thought crime" indeed....more like bloody Drama Queening.

Umm, the Moderation Thread is for talking about why stuff is happening. That's gonna include, rather famously in your case, because of who. Even if I had He Who I Specifically Shall Not Name on /Ignore, I could have said the exact same thing from the context of all of your and other's responses. In any case, the Moderation Threads are where most other rules are lessened for the purpose of discussion about them, but the "Norton/Krueger Thing" is so fucking egregious and Beyond the Pale that it's the Super Special Rule Exception to everything? Gimme a fucking break.

Suggesting a Moderator do their job and Moderate isn't pouty or churlish. The Big Lebowski school of modding works the majority of the time, but no matter how chill the Pub, sometimes you have to send in the Bouncer.
 

TristramEvans

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Then what are you going to do about it? What is your solution? Pushing the responsibility on to them clearly isn't solving the problem.

It solves our problem though, I don't care if the two of them don't get along. Hell, I wouldn't even care if we set up a thread called Norton vs Kruegar and just let the two of them go at it for all eternity. This isn't about them, it's about the rest of the forum.

Agreed. That should be avoided at all costs, IMO.

But there have got to be some steps between saying "please play nice, guys" ad nauseum and "you're kicked out of this bar, never to return". Some kind of escalation or plan to deal with this.

well, this is our plan right now. we're basically just saying to both of them "shut up already"
 

CRKrueger

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Then what are you going to do about it? What is your solution? Pushing the responsibility on to them clearly isn't solving the problem.
Umm. Norton and I haven't caused problems about anything since we were told to Ignore each other. The current Beef is Norton vs. Tenbones & Tristram.

People seem to be forgetting that for some reason.

But there have got to be some steps between saying "please play nice, guys" ad nauseum and "you're kicked out of this bar, never to return". Some kind of escalation or plan to deal with this.
 

Toadmaster

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It solves our problem though, I don't care if the two of them don't get along. Hell, I wouldn't even care if we set up a thread called Norton vs Kruegar and just let the two of them go at it for all eternity. This isn't about them, it's about the rest of the forum.



well, this is our plan right now. we're basically just saying to both of them "shut up already"


Now there is a thought, you could make a Thunderdome thread. If things get too heated the posters involved could take it to the Thunderdome to work out their shit. Those who are interested or amused by such displays can watch and everybody else could continue on their merry way.

Some rules would still need to apply, but some posters like to argue and that would provide them their space. Nobody forces them to participate, so they have the choice of dropping it or taking it out of earshot.

Kind of like old school employee management. Here are the gloves you two kiss and make up, or take it out back and settle it in the alley.
 

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Now there is a thought, you could make a Thunderdome thread. If things get too heated the posters involved could take it to the Thunderdome to work out their shit. Those who are interested or amused by such displays can watch and everybody else could continue on their merry way.

Some rules would still need to apply, but some posters like to argue and that would provide them their space. Nobody forces them to participate, so they have the choice of dropping it or taking it out of earshot.

Kind of like old school employee management. Here are the gloves you two kiss and make up, or take it out back and settle it in the alley.
That’s an interesting idea! But if implemented then the people entering the thread should be warned to keep arguments just to that thread. And maybe no using the report button unless something gets political?
 

Tommy Brownell

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Too bad the Mods can't get people to self-police themselves into scrolling past what annoys them instead of mashing the Report button like a kid who wants his pudding even though he hasn't eaten his meat.

I ignore chuckleheads all the time. And I rarely post memes. And I love canadian geese.

Be more like me.

...or don't. That's probably a bad idea.

I'm also not explicitly calling anyone on the forums a chucklehead. But I'm also not not implicitly doing so, either.
 

Ronnie Sanford

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That’s an interesting idea! But if implemented then the people entering the thread should be warned to keep arguments just to that thread. And maybe no using the report button unless something gets political?
Is it a sign of a weak mind to reply to yourself? In any case I thought about the Thunder dome idea and I’m concerned it would change the tone and tenor of the site as I doubt people could confine their emotions to the thread. Right now, at least, those emotions are suppressed.
 

Bunch

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I ignore chuckleheads all the time. And I rarely post memes. And I love canadian geese.

Be more like me.

...or don't. That's probably a bad idea.

I'm also not explicitly calling anyone on the forums a chucklehead. But I'm also not not implicitly doing so, either.
Who let the geese lover in?
 

Tommy Brownell

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Now there is a thought, you could make a Thunderdome thread. If things get too heated the posters involved could take it to the Thunderdome to work out their shit. Those who are interested or amused by such displays can watch and everybody else could continue on their merry way.

Some rules would still need to apply, but some posters like to argue and that would provide them their space. Nobody forces them to participate, so they have the choice of dropping it or taking it out of earshot.

Kind of like old school employee management. Here are the gloves you two kiss and make up, or take it out back and settle it in the alley.

My crazy idea...and hear me out on this...is that people just grow the fuck up and act somewhat like adults. I know, it seems like a stretch and I'm not sure just anyone is capable of it, but that's my on the record recommendation.
 
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