Modiphius is doing Dune

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That's kind of funny, but doesn't that mean that the player picked by the Bene Gesserit has absolutely no way to win from the start? I can see a lot of people being irritated by that.
That's a good point and I may be remembering it wrong.

It might have been a more granulated thing: victory was graded through various different sources. The Bene Gesserit player might have just got extra points for successful predictions or something.

I only vaguely remember...
 
That's kind of funny, but doesn't that mean that the player picked by the Bene Gesserit has absolutely no way to win from the start? I can see a lot of people being irritated by that.
The Bene Gesserit can win through the standard victory condition - occupy at least 3 strongholds at the end of a turn, individually or as part of an alliance. That guess-who condition was just a special feature to be the sole winner of a game, and a bit of a shot in the dark, but thematic.
 
However as regards the threat points, from what i've seen of the system I simply cannot conceive how you'd ever need to use Dark Symmetry/Doom/Threat.
My friend, who ran Mutant Chronicles 3, used DS points as monster-buffs, typically. Or perhaps to activate special monster features. He accumulated quite a pile of them over the course of a session. But he only seemed to really leverage them in boss-battle-type fights. I'm not sure if that's because he was conservative using them, or if that was recommended usage for a MC3 GM.

From the player's angle, many of the guys in my group either gambled and produced DSP, or stayed conservative like me. Tempting fate certainly helped to produce some dramatic effects.
 
That's a good point and I may be remembering it wrong.

It might have been a more granulated thing: victory was graded through various different sources. The Bene Gesserit player might have just got extra points for successful predictions or something.

I only vaguely remember...

The rule you're talking about is from the original Dune boardgame.
It is a very special beast and, IMHO, a masterpiece of game design. At the core, it's an "euro": the rules are pretty abstract. But the special abilities of every faction are what was generally called "ameritrash" i.e. strictly linked to flavor (not sure if the terms are still used). They have a very dramatic effect on gameplay and really make the Dune setting come alive within the game.

That rule is one of the special faction rules of the Bene Gesserit. They can win with the normal victory conditions available to anyone else (but it's hard for them, due to the intrinsic military and economic weakness the faction shows due to its starting position and the lack of any special faction rule to help in those regards); however, the Bene Gesserit player also writes down the faction he thinks will win the game *and the turn in which the victory will come*. If those two conditions are met, the Bene Gesserit becomes the real winner. This, of course, allows for all sort of sneaky backstabbing in a game in which diplomacy and underhanded deals are everything.
 
The rule you're talking about is from the original Dune boardgame.
It is a very special beast and, IMHO, a masterpiece of game design. At the core, it's an "euro": the rules are pretty abstract. But the special abilities of every faction are what was generally called "ameritrash" i.e. strictly linked to flavor (not sure if the terms are still used). They have a very dramatic effect on gameplay and really make the Dune setting come alive within the game.

That rule is one of the special faction rules of the Bene Gesserit. They can win with the normal victory conditions available to anyone else (but it's hard for them, due to the intrinsic military and economic weakness the faction shows due to its starting position and the lack of any special faction rule to help in those regards); however, the Bene Gesserit player also writes down the faction he thinks will win the game *and the turn in which the victory will come*. If those two conditions are met, the Bene Gesserit becomes the real winner. This, of course, allows for all sort of sneaky backstabbing in a game in which diplomacy and underhanded deals are everything.
Okay. Having to guess the turn as well seems a lot more reasonable.
 
They can win with the normal victory conditions available to anyone else (but it's hard for them, due to the intrinsic military and economic weakness the faction shows due to its starting position and the lack of any special faction rule to help in those regards)
Yeah, the only special faction rule for the BG is the shipment of "spiritual advisers" (1 token), which I think can occur during every players transfer of troops to Arrakis' surface? (At least until the point that they allied with someone?). But that's a slow trickle to getting some forces on the board.

The BG's strength is in allying, and building towards a later-turn victory. They can be a powerful ally, and IIRC can remove (voice-away?) opponents' Treachery cards in conflicts. I'd have to re-read the rules to remember their other advantages/disadvantages.

It's been about 15 years since I last played the old Dune boardgame. And we played 4-player, and typically used Corrino, Harkonnen, Atreides, and someone flip-flopped between using the Guild or Fremen. No one really felt compelled to play the BG with the other options.
 
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Anybody here is familiar with the (at least one) older RPG based on Dune ?

Edit : the one in was thinking about is this one (http://www.legrog.org/jeux/dune, sorry in French) from Last Unicorn Games, which is closed after being bought by WotC.
 
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A Dune RPG? Oh, neat!
Modiphius? Oh, godammit!
Are they writing it or publishing it? If it's the latter, I might be interested.
 
How is it, according to you, Tristam ?

Well, it's tied up to my feelings on BurningWheel. To put it simply, it's a game that I've had hours of fun making characters for. Love the lifepath character generation. But you couldn't pay me to run the system. It's far too crunchy for my tastes, and I think it was written with the intention of curbing "bad GM syndrome" by mechanically trying to solve what IMO is a social problem. Thus the system RAW handcuffs the GM in ways that really turned me off. A few years ago I made the joke "Be careful, bad GMing is the leading cause of Burning Wheel".

But I do think, that aside, mechanically it is a brilliant piece of design. For someone who likes that much crunch and doesn't put as much stock in GM improvisation and "rulings not rules" I can definitely see the appeal.

So, as far as Burning Sands go, it's a brilliant translation of the Dune world to the Burning Wheel system. Obviously, for copyright reasons it's "Dune with the serial numbers filed off", but even so it's about as close as possible to a straight adaption and was obviously done with the care and meticulous attention of a fan.

But hey, don't take my word for it, the pdf is a free download. https://www.burningwheel.com/wiki/images/Jihad.pdf
 
This is the type of thing that I will probably pick up just to read, but probably never play. Unless, of course, they price it way too high.

If I were going to run a Dune campaign, I would probably start with OpenD6 (which encourages tinkering) and then add attributes, skills, and subsystems that played up the unique aspects of the setting.
 
All this Dune talk makes me want to try reading it again. I have yet to make it all the way through. Maybe after I finish rereading The Lord of the Rings I'll commit to it.
 
Anybody here is familiar with the (at least one) older RPG based on Dune ?

Edit : the one in was thinking about is this one (http://www.legrog.org/jeux/dune, sorry in French) from Last Unicorn Games, which is closed after being bought by WotC.
The previous officially licenced Dune rpg, was by LUG. It had 3000 copies released after LUG was bought by WotC (who then promptly lost the licence).

The rules were the same as used in their Star Trek games, called the Icon system. It involved D6 dice pools, based on attribute scores, with skills adding to the highest dice rolled (from memory). Combat was a bit finickety, but workable. Players were encouraged to design a House, and choose roles within the entourage
 
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TristramEvans TristramEvans and T Trippy Thank you for your answer !

Concerning Burning Sands, I am also not OK with Luke Crane shtick "the Referee must hold in check". My RPG session never turn into shout matches, so his solutions to this issue is of no interest to me.

T Trippy Does the Icon system share similatities with the d6 system of West End Games Star Wars ?
 
T Trippy Does the Icon system share similatities with the d6 system of West End Games Star Wars ?
It does, but not quite. The player rolls the number of dice equal to their Attribute score, then adds the skill score to the highest dice roll. In Star Wars you just pooled the Attribute and Skill stats together with additional bonuses occasionally. They do have a drama die that is rolled with the other Attribute dice, which has bad/good things happen on a roll of 1 or 6 respectively, so that is similar.

However, the results are a generally a bit more grounded than with the WEG Star Wars D6 system, and there are more complications (like hit locations, etc) in combat.
 
Well, it's tied up to my feelings on BurningWheel. To put it simply, it's a game that I've had hours of fun making characters for. Love the lifepath character generation. But you couldn't pay me to run the system.

Word. I never had Burning Wheel, but bought Burning Empire, looked at the little matrix resolution system and I was like WTF. Then my daughter got Mouse Guard, an allegedly simpler version of the system, and tried to run it for her. Even that was not pleasant.

I concluded that Luke Crane really doesn't live up to the hype. To the point that his inclusion in the current Monte Cook kickstarter has put me off supporting the project.
 
When I finally ran Mouse Guard with my kid, all I could think of was: "Boy I want to just play Prince Valiant".
My goal is to somehow simplify Mouse Guard while still keeping the best parts (especially the nice components from the boxed set).
Torchbearer is similar: a very pretty book but it's really just a concept piece. I would never bother to play it, but I sure like to browse it from time to time to get inspiration.
 
I concluded that Luke Crane really doesn't live up to the hype.
Yeah, despite occasional episodes of brilliance, he's nowhere even remotely near his overblown rep. Then again, his rep is so overblown, I don't know how he could be.
 
Another awesome classic IP is bagged by Modiphius.
Jesus Wept. :weep:
Where the hell did Birch get his money? Is his wife an oligarch or Russian Mob Princess?

I wonder what setting element they are going to try and shoehorn into the "GM metacurrency that players pay when they choose to be awesome by buying dice" mechanic this time. :yawn:
 
The Metabarons Universe Guide (a massive setting book for... d6 I think?) is pretty fantastic and dense. I would love a Dune book like that.
Dune d6...

My mouth waters. My hands tremble.
 
I love the production values involved with CONAN, and John Carter looks the same.
Not overly sold on the core 2D20 system however, it looks a bit clunky.
I intend to use the CONAN book as source template and retrap to a BRP system (BGB/RQ/ Mythras)

I love the DUNE setting and think it will be the same here - quite well done in terms of production value and content, although with a clunky core 2D20 system. I will probably support DUNE rpg, but likely to use the corebook as a guide to play it in one of my usual systems.
If I actually play it. This may just be bookcase eyecandy for me, considering how difficult it may be to set a scenario in the actual setting without disrupting too much canon.
Makes me wonder when it will be set, and what type of scenarios/campaigns we'll see
It's eye candy for me. I might grab it, depending upon other costs.
But these days I tend to GM just a few systems, I really don't want to learn too much more.
I could totally port DUNE into BRP or Fate Core, so yeah a good Wiki is all I really need for it.
I definately won't be playing anything in 2D20, it's just too clunky for me these days
This is pretty much where I sit with it. I love the production values, but not really fond of the system. It seems very get of my lawn of me, but I’m kind of tired of dice shenanigans and special symbols and the like. Cortex is about my limit on dice tricks.

Depending on the style of game and amount of effort I’m feeling, it’d be d100 or cortex. I could probably do it with a lore book pretty easily.
 
Another awesome classic IP is bagged by Modiphius.
Jesus Wept. :weep:
Where the hell did Birch get his money? Is his wife an oligarch or Russian Mob Princess?

I wonder this too. Like, seriously, these are not cheap. Maybe they’ve been devalued in the face of marvel and Star Wars?
 
This is pretty much where I sit with it. I love the production values, but not really fond of the system. It seems very get of my lawn of me, but I’m kind of tired of dice shenanigans and special symbols and the like. Cortex is about my limit on dice tricks.

Depending on the style of game and amount of effort I’m feeling, it’d be d100 or cortex. I could probably do it with a lore book pretty easily.
There's an interview from some podcast that's on youtube the details of which I don't recall.

he used to run a fashion business and knows a lot of people in the industry or something..

dont forget pretty much everything they've done has been thru kickstarter. then they just hire proven industry talent that can deliver on time (or GMS) and....profit.
 
It does, but not quite. The player rolls the number of dice equal to their Attribute score, then adds the skill score to the highest dice roll. In Star Wars you just pooled the Attribute and Skill stats together with additional bonuses occasionally. They do have a drama die that is rolled with the other Attribute dice, which has bad/good things happen on a roll of 1 or 6 respectively, so that is similar.

Aye, this reminds me that I used to think of the Icon system as being a flipped Silhouette System (Heavy Gear, Jovian Chronicles) where instead of rolling Attribute d6 & adding Skill, you rolled Skill d6 and added Attribute.
 
Well, it's tied up to my feelings on BurningWheel. To put it simply, it's a game that I've had hours of fun making characters for. Love the lifepath character generation. But you couldn't pay me to run the system. It's far too crunchy for my tastes, and I think it was written with the intention of curbing "bad GM syndrome" by mechanically trying to solve what IMO is a social problem. Thus the system RAW handcuffs the GM in ways that really turned me off. A few years ago I made the joke "Be careful, bad GMing is the leading cause of Burning Wheel".

But I do think, that aside, mechanically it is a brilliant piece of design. For someone who likes that much crunch and doesn't put as much stock in GM improvisation and "rulings not rules" I can definitely see the appeal.

So, as far as Burning Sands go, it's a brilliant translation of the Dune world to the Burning Wheel system. Obviously, for copyright reasons it's "Dune with the serial numbers filed off", but even so it's about as close as possible to a straight adaption and was obviously done with the care and meticulous attention of a fan.

But hey, don't take my word for it, the pdf is a free download. https://www.burningwheel.com/wiki/images/Jihad.pdf
I've always wondered whether I shouldn't just make a bunch of characters and run the game with Unisystem, ORE or the like, since the BW features pretty similar ranges for skills and attributes AFAIK:grin:!

I backed Torchbearer. But I kept putting off actually reading it, figuring someone with more dungeoncrawling experience should show me how to do it...
Then I found a Torchbearer game on Myth-Weavers. I joined and played.
And then I was grateful that my "PDFs only or there are other games" has prevented me from buying Burning Wheel. Because the GM was really trying, but that was among the top 5 of the least fun games I've ever played.

When I finally ran Mouse Guard with my kid, all I could think of was: "Boy I want to just play Prince Valiant".
My goal is to somehow simplify Mouse Guard while still keeping the best parts (especially the nice components from the boxed set).
Torchbearer is similar: a very pretty book but it's really just a concept piece. I would never bother to play it, but I sure like to browse it from time to time to get inspiration.
Or just play Woodlands Warriors:tongue:?
 
So anybody know anything about the new Dune boardgames? "Gale Force 9 has announced they will be making a series of board games and tabletop RPGs based on the world of the classic sci-fi book series Dune." Sounds like they are planning at least a few...one for each book?

https://comicbook.com/gaming/2018/08/14/dune-tabletop-rpg-board-games/
Y'know if GF9 made a bunch of Dune games that were similar to the D&D boardgame line (Castle Ravenloft, Wrath of Ashardalon, Legend of Drizzt, Temple of Elemental Evil ) then that could be pretty cool. Each had pretty simple rules, lots of minis, and you could connect them all together. I would buy something like that.
 
I imagine it will be the usual Modiphius affair: core book/deluxe slipcase, dice sets, gm screen, years of supplements for every character class that should be handled better, crap production values.
 
All this Dune talk makes me want to try reading it again. I have yet to make it all the way through. Maybe after I finish rereading The Lord of the Rings I'll commit to it.
I never even tried reading either of those two books.

When I finally ran Mouse Guard with my kid, all I could think of was: "Boy I want to just play Prince Valiant".
My goal is to somehow simplify Mouse Guard while still keeping the best parts (especially the nice components from the boxed set).
Torchbearer is similar: a very pretty book but it's really just a concept piece. I would never bother to play it, but I sure like to browse it from time to time to get inspiration.
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Yeah, despite occasional episodes of brilliance, he's nowhere even remotely near his overblown rep. Then again, his rep is so overblown, I don't know how he could be.
Apart from his name being connected to a bunch of unplayable games I am blissfully unaware of his rep. What is his rep, exactly?
 
I imagine it will be the usual Modiphius affair: core book/deluxe slipcase, dice sets, gm screen, years of supplements for every character class that should be handled better, crap production values.
Crap production values?
I've heard many complaints about Modiphius, but that's the first I hear that one. Admittedly, I seldom bother with the physical rewards...:smile:

Pounding a square peg into a round hole using the 2d20 system...
That's par for the course:wink:.
Is anyone else sorry that Dune: Chronicles of the Imprium isn't around:evil:?

A Mentat, a Navigator, a Fremen and a Cymek all walk into a bar...

although if they call 'threat/doom/heat' Spice I will be impressed
Or Addiction:tongue:?
 
Crap production values?
I've heard many complaints about Modiphius, but that's the first I hear that one. Admittedly, I seldom bother with the physical rewards...:smile:


That's par for the course:wink:.
Is anyone else sorry that Dune: Chronicles of the Imprium isn't around:evil:?
Well the book quality is decent enough. I think Chris Birch has people in the know with regard to getting stuff physically done (I could be wrong). It's more the art and the writing. When they use licensed stuff (like Conan or Infinity) it's decent enough, but the propreitary stuff is fucking terrible. The Star Trek books are a joke. The game itself is actually quite decent and some of the art, mainly the ship stuff, is ok. But the rest of it is woefully average at best. The content of the supplements though is so bad. A beta quadrant sourcebook with absolutely NO rules for playing Romulans, Orions, Gorn or Klingons? Who did they think was buying this stuff? The PC 'class' (division) books are laughable. There's next to no content in them at all. How you take a license like Trek and come up with that makes my brain squirm
 
Crap production values?
I've heard many complaints about Modiphius, but that's the first I hear that one. Admittedly, I seldom bother with the physical rewards...:smile:


That's par for the course:wink:.
Is anyone else sorry that Dune: Chronicles of the Imprium isn't around:evil:?


Or Addiction:tongue:?
Actually I kinda am, or at least was, I have a fully printed scan that i almost ran years ago. We did character gen and House gen (House Bacchus). It looked reasonably promising and not as complicated as I suspect it could be. I remember looking at the promo materials at the time and it looked promising.

And then, like tears in rain, it was gone. Like a fart in a wind tunnel
 
Well the book quality is decent enough. I think Chris Birch has people in the know with regard to getting stuff physically done (I could be wrong). It's more the art and the writing. When they use licensed stuff (like Conan or Infinity) it's decent enough, but the propreitary stuff is fucking terrible. The Star Trek books are a joke. The game itself is actually quite decent and some of the art, mainly the ship stuff, is ok. But the rest of it is woefully average at best. The content of the supplements though is so bad. A beta quadrant sourcebook with absolutely NO rules for playing Romulans, Orions, Gorn or Klingons? Who did they think was buying this stuff? The PC 'class' (division) books are laughable. There's next to no content in them at all. How you take a license like Trek and come up with that makes my brain squirm
Oh, I see. I'm used to seeing complaints about "production values" mean "bad printing and binding".
Can't comment on Star Trek, because the franchise doesn't really interest me, and thus I haven't read the game:smile:.

Actually I kinda am, or at least was, I have a fully printed scan that i almost ran years ago. We did character gen and House gen (House Bacchus). It looked reasonably promising and not as complicated as I suspect it could be. I remember looking at the promo materials at the time and it looked promising.

And then, like tears in rain, it was gone. Like a fart in a wind tunnel
You let a Dune campaign wither unplayed? You...monster:shade:!

Also, this post may contain traces of humor:grin:.
 
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