Mongoose Traveller 2E - It's been out for 2 years now, how do you like it?

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Korgoth

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For those of you who own Mongoose Traveler 2nd Edition how do you like it so far, now that it's had 2 years to percolate through your systems.

For me I like it, but I also like MGT1E (or the Cepheus Engine). I've not been able to play MGT2E though but I like most of what it does rules wise. My personal big beef with it is the art and layout which IMO is terrible, but then almost every new games art/layout is bad again IMO. Mongoose has always had poor art and layoun since it's inception so it is what it is so I knew what I was getting into when I bought the core books.

So aside from presentation what do you think of the 2E rules, what are it's 'warts' and what are it's 'beauty spots' in your opinion.

EDIT:
Personally I'd love to see a 'Cepheus Engine 2nd Edition' mimicking the MGT2E rules but presented in a cleaned up, clarified and better organized manner (which Cepheus by Moon Toad does well)
 
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I still haven't got a chance to try it, but went on somewhat of a shopping spree at the end of last year for Traveller stuff; including several MgT2 books. I've never got around to run or play Traveller, even if I've had LBB 1 and 2 since way back. However, I really like what I've seen of MgT2 and want to give it a spin (either 3I or with a setting of my own making).

When it comes to the ship building expansion (High Guard), I think it is a bit too abstracted and been thinking about either expand it a bit, or picking one of the other and modify it to MgT2. I'm not a fan of the idea that the bridge size, nor the size of the life-support, is just a percentage of the total tonnage. I can't make a sensible container ship with that system. I guess I prefer my ship-building to be somewhere in between MgT2 and FF&S.
 
The rules are extremely similar to MgT1 and Cepheus, skill list is a bit tidier than MgT1, so from that perspective I'm fairly indifferent. What I'm very excited by are the new campaigns: The Pirates of Drinax and The Great Rift. The latter is a long "Trek" style journey into the galactic core with weird civilizations, black holes, Lovecraftian space entities etc.
 
The rules are extremely similar to MgT1 and Cepheus, skill list is a bit tidier than MgT1, so from that perspective I'm fairly indifferent. What I'm very excited by are the new campaigns: The Pirates of Drinax and The Great Rift. The latter is a long "Trek" style journey into the galactic core with weird civilizations, black holes, Lovecraftian space entities etc.

I'm terrible, I backed the Great Rift kickstarter and haven't read it lol :errr:. I also have the 'Pirates of Drinax' Mega-Sandbox in PDF which I have read a bit of, good stuff. I also have a full bookshelf of RPG books I've yet to more than flip through, and there is always that 'new shiny' on the horizon :sweat:
 
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I liked that the rules for pre-career education and the Prisoner career are in the corebook. And there is Mindjammer Traveller, too! (Then again, there are some very cool settings for Cepheus/Mongoose 1e).

Other than that, when it comes to playing it, I'd gladly play Mongoose Traveller 1st edition or 2nd edition, or Cepheus Engine...
But then I would gladly play Megatraveller, or Classic Traveller, or Traveller 4, or Traveller 5, or Traveller TNE. About the only edition I'd avoid is T20, because I don't think the d20 rules are a decent fit for...anything, really:thumbsup:.
GURPS Traveller I would play, but I'd be sorry to not have a Lifepath (AFAIK).
For Hero Traveller, you'd need to talk me into learning Hero....one of the few generic systems I don't really want to learn. But you could persuade me if you promise to not drop the game and if I like your Refereeing style.

Bottom line, I just like Traveller, so I would play pretty much any edition:grin:!
 
Love it. Simply put, my go to game for spacefaring sci-fi.

About to kick off a Great Rift setting campaign in a week. Played the Pirates of Drinax campaign last year. The writing, presentation and clarity of the rules is the best it has ever been for Traveller - and I own every single edition.
 
I really like it. I think the boon/bane dice mechanic was actually a nice add. I didn't really care for them moving the ship building rules to High Guard, but it didn't really affect me directly since I tend to run character-focused games (I don't really use ship rules much).

Overall I still prefer CT for being a lighter, more "open" or freeform game (I also don't tend to use the OTU), but I can probably attribute much of that to familiarity and my being a creature of habit. I'd happily run or play in either, any time.
 
I don't like it.

I was never in my younger days into Traveller. Last year I played my first bits of it, and it probably was under Mong rules. Experience during the game has fuckall to do with anything. Money and availability of equipment is everything, along with the experience prior to the game. Kind of hate it. I always felt that in the wild open space, my character was just a small wheel in a big engine. So, not a fan.
 
I don't like it.

I was never in my younger days into Traveller. Last year I played my first bits of it, and it probably was under Mong rules. Experience during the game has fuckall to do with anything. Money and availability of equipment is everything, along with the experience prior to the game. Kind of hate it. I always felt that in the wild open space, my character was just a small wheel in a big engine. So, not a fan.
I love this about it, but that is accurate. In my experience it's often what turns people off Traveller.
 
I came to Traveller as an old fart myself, using MongTrav1. I got my start in the 1990s and in Brazil, no one I knew played or ran any edition of Traveller; but the OSR more or less put me in collision course with both Runequest and Traveller, and ergo Mongoose, then custodian of both franchises.

I really enjoyed running it, though reception with my gaming group was mixed, and I’d live to give it another try; Pirates of Drinax seems perfect in that it allows for sandbox starfaring with a strong hook and without the mortgage.

Great Rift sounds fun too. I’ll have to check it out.

But what I’d really love is a truly freewheeling Spinward Marches sandbox. Or Orbital 2100. Or better still, to roll my own sector, playing fast and loose with OTU setting assumptions.

Rules-wise I dig my MongTrav1 core book and Cepheus Engine does a great job of bringing it just the right amount of closer to CT. I have yet to really parse the variants (Cepheus Light and Cepheus Quantum). I am iffy on MongTrav2 because none of the changes I’ve heard of appeal particularly to me (except maybe starship power management) but I might look into it eventually. It is pretty far down my wishlist, though.
 
Rules-wise I dig my MongTrav1 core book and Cepheus Engine does a great job of bringing it just the right amount of closer to CT. I have yet to really parse the variants (Cepheus Light and Cepheus Quantum). I am iffy on MongTrav2 because none of the changes I’ve heard of appeal particularly to me (except maybe starship power management) but I might look into it eventually. It is pretty far down my wishlist, though.
I honestly wouldn't bother with MongTrav2 if you have MongTrav1. Again I actually like MongTrav2 more, but the differences are really minor so it's not something I'd bother spending the money on.

My actual favourite Traveller of all versions is Cepheus Light as I like the much simpler skill list and the simpler skill system, e.g. Computers-1 means you get +1 on rolls, you don't factor in an attribute bonus as well. Attr bonuses are just for pure attribute rolls. Loads of other little things. Overall it strikes me as the kind of OSR style review of taking the old and new and putting them together in a smooth way we've already gotten for D&D.
 
So aside from presentation what do you think of the 2E rules, what are it's 'warts' and what are it's 'beauty spots' in your opinion.

It works just as well as MgT1e which is the main issue for me as it just feels like another iteration of MgT1e. The difference is not even as stark as between MegaTraveller and Classic Traveller.

However it has come out with some nice supplements like the Rifts sourcebook.
 
It works just as well as MgT1e which is the main issue for me as it just feels like another iteration of MgT1e. The difference is not even as stark as between MegaTraveller and Classic Traveller.

However it has come out with some nice supplements like the Rifts sourcebook.
That's more or less true IME (though I haven't read the supplements yet, hoping that I might rope my regular group into running them:grin:).

I don't like it.

I was never in my younger days into Traveller. Last year I played my first bits of it, and it probably was under Mong rules. Experience during the game has fuckall to do with anything. Money and availability of equipment is everything, along with the experience prior to the game. Kind of hate it. I always felt that in the wild open space, my character was just a small wheel in a big engine. So, not a fan.
...I like what you're describing, but it's a GM style thing. Certainly you can add quite a bit of new skills after chargen! (Check the advancement rules in Adventurer, the free fantasy Traveller variant). Depends on the Referee and the setting.

And nothing prevents you from being a big engine that makes the small wheels of planetary economics turn around it. Again, down to Refereeing style and setting concepts.

Don't get me wrong, I like it that your initial skills are enough for most games and that you must manipulate the machine to have an impact. But I know it's a style thing:shade:.

I honestly wouldn't bother with MongTrav2 if you have MongTrav1. Again I actually like MongTrav2 more, but the differences are really minor so it's not something I'd bother spending the money on.

My actual favourite Traveller of all versions is Cepheus Light as I like the much simpler skill list and the simpler skill system, e.g. Computers-1 means you get +1 on rolls, you don't factor in an attribute bonus as well. Attr bonuses are just for pure attribute rolls. Loads of other little things. Overall it strikes me as the kind of OSR style review of taking the old and new and putting them together in a smooth way we've already gotten for D&D.
I'm still of two minds on the attributes thing, personally. On a system level, yes, I like it.
OTOH, it kinda makes Int and Edu less important in many cases - I mean, Social is kinda obvious in its uses, the first three are also your "hit points", but what do you need Int and Edu if there are existing skills that cover most anything you'd do with them?
In most cases, even when you lack the skill, you should be rolling it with the unskilled penalty.
 
OTOH, it kinda makes Int and Edu less important in many cases - I mean, Social is kinda obvious in its uses, the first three are also your "hit points", but what do you need Int and Edu if there are existing skills that cover most anything you'd do with them?
If you mean outside of what they statically determine such as languages known and maximum ability to learn skills: I'd take EDU rolls as similar to Savage Worlds Common Knowledge rolls. INT is needed more rarely, but I don't view that as too much of a problem as it has an important role as the main determinant in getting tech skills during Char Gen. Which is a good representation of INT I think.

Of course this was a criticism of Classic Traveller that some considered Mongoose to fix, so I suppose it depends on what you want from the attributes.
 
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Since I see little on the net about this, here is a look at what the advantage mechanic does in Mongoose Traveller 2E for typical targets. As you can see the effect is more drastic at higher targets.

TargetChance of SuccessChance of Success with AdvantageChance of Success with Disadvantage
677.2%89.4%47.7%
8 (Default)41.7%68.1%19.4%
1016.7%35.7%5.1%
 
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Bought it - likely foolishly - out of curiosity. Scanned through it; stashed it away on OneDrive; and haven't looked at it since.

Aesthetically, it looked great. It's nice that Mongoose is publishing Rpgs now that don't have garbage-art and are making an effort to produce a quality-looking and laid-out product. I'm not a big fan of advantage/disadvantage systems, so I don't think I'll ever use it in-play. I don't think that MGT1e was particularly broken and am still quite fond of that version of the rules.

Frankly, Cepheus Engine is a product that's more suitable for my Rpging. I don't need a full-color core book as a reference - I can:
  • Spend $5 on a decently-produced pdf core book, like Moon Toad's version.
  • Or pay-what-I-want for the SRD, or editable-SRD doc to compile the rules myself. Very solid rules, IMO.
  • Buy various add-ons, like settings and design guides.
 
Ah, just remembered one detail. MgT2 contains one of my pet peeves when it comes to RPGs. The idea that a character can't start as competent as a character can get later. This one becomes a tad worse for me when it comes to Traveller, as the characters tend to not be wet behind the ears at start.

That Jack-of-all-trades only can be gained during char-gen is the same problem.

Not being a RAW kind of person, things like that tend to not really register. For MgT2, I would probably just award 2 study period successes per skill-gain over 4 in char-gen. For Jack-of-all-trades I would probably just make it cost 3-5 times to learn later (and a lot of roleplay on how to get it).
 
Ah, just remembered one detail. MgT2 contains one of my pet peeves when it comes to RPGs. The idea that a character can't start as competent as a character can get later.
Care to explain? I ended up with a character with Melee 4 using MgT1 chargen, and I could have had Melee 5, except I wanted to cover a different kind of Melee as well.
Given that Melee 5 was the limit of skill according to our Referee, I don't know how a character could start more competent than that:smile:.
 
Aesthetically, it looked great. It's nice that Mongoose is publishing Rpgs now that don't have garbage-art and are making an effort to produce a quality-looking and laid-out product. I'm not a big fan of advantage/disadvantage systems, so I don't think I'll ever use it in-play. I don't think that MGT1e was particularly broken and am still quite fond of that version of the rules.
MGT2 doesn’t deviate that much from MGT1 rules - the design brief was explicitly “evolution not revolution”. You could use pretty much any previous edition settings with the 2nd edition rules without much fuss.

A non-exhaustive list of changes between editions:

- Characters can opt for an education prior to opting for a career (or take a term out later on) at a University or Military academy. This also gives characters more control over their skill specialities as they choose skills rather than roll them.
- Characters can now go to jail during character generation, represented by the add on of a Prisoner career.
- Skill lists have been tweaked and tidied.
- The base system has Difficulty levels, while the number of +/- modifiers have been reduced in the game.
- Boon/Bane dice can be added to the normal 2D6 roll - the mentioned ‘advantage/disadvantage’ system (similar to D&D5).
- Combat systems have been tweaked and standardized, to ensure that combat can occur at different levels (space combat, ground combat) within the same remit of rules design.
- Spacecraft Operations are generally clarified and easier to use.
- Spacecraft design has been tweaked and unified, and then shipped out entirely into the High Guard supplement rather than being spread out over multiple books. The Core Rules catalogues iconic starcraft to be bought, with the design of bespoke ships essentially made into advanced rules for the supplement.
- The vehicle rules have also been simplified and standardized. Again, this is expanded out in the Vehicles supplement.
- A number of changes happen in the specific Equipment rules - like Computers, for example. And again, its all expanded out in the Central Supply Catalogue.
- Psionics are generally clarified and easier to use. I’d imagine a Psionics book will be in the pipeline at some time.
- The full colour layout and artwork is a major facelift from previous editions, and the book has a bigger page count than previous.

However, for me, the main development of Mongoose Traveller 2nd edition is that the writers seem to have been given much more freedom to focus on designing massive campaign packs. Pirates of Drinax, The Great Rift, Elemental Cruisers are outstanding work. Ditto the Starter Pack if you count its included mini-campaign. These will be joined soon by Deepnight Revelation and the Frontiers War campaigns. To a degree, the upcoming 2300AD box will also be presented as a campaign pack, although the setting will be different.
 
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Ah, just remembered one detail. MgT2 contains one of my pet peeves when it comes to RPGs. The idea that a character can't start as competent as a character can get later. This one becomes a tad worse for me when it comes to Traveller, as the characters tend to not be wet behind the ears at start.

That Jack-of-all-trades only can be gained during char-gen is the same problem.

Not being a RAW kind of person, things like that tend to not really register. For MgT2, I would probably just award 2 study period successes per skill-gain over 4 in char-gen. For Jack-of-all-trades I would probably just make it cost 3-5 times to learn later (and a lot of roleplay on how to get it).
It is true that skill levels cannot rise above Level 4 in character generation, but they are also limited to a total of (INT+EDU)x3 at any stage. It’s probably worth noting that a Level 4 skill is about Doctorate level, though.

Jack-of-all-Trades is a skill you can only get in character generation and, in my view, should only be obtained through random rolls because otherwise it has a destabilizing effect on the game. It basically negates the need to have skills if you can just purchase Jack-of-all-Trades-3 and be able to do anything without penalty. Mind, you can possibly just spend a load of cash and get skill software for cyberbrain implants, so whatever...
 
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Care to explain? I ended up with a character with Melee 4 using MgT1 chargen, and I could have had Melee 5, except I wanted to cover a different kind of Melee as well.
Given that Melee 5 was the limit of skill according to our Referee, I don't know how a character could start more competent than that:smile:.
MgT2 Rulebook said:
Skill Limits
A skill may never be increased beyond level 4 during Traveller creation. Once a skill has reached level 4, any additional increases are lost. In addition, a Traveller may never have a total number of skill levels higher than three times his combined INT and EDU
So, either MgT1 works different in that regard, or your Referee runs with his own house-rules. I can't find anything in MgT2 about having an upper limit post char-gen.
 
Jack-of-all-Trades is a skill you can only get in character generation and, in my view, should only be obtained through random rolls because otherwise it has a destabilizing effect on the game. It basically negates the need to have skills if you can just purchase Jack-of-all-Trades-3 and be able to do anything without penalty. Mind, you can possibly just spend a load of cash and get skill software for cyberbrain implants, so whatever...
I wouldn't put it really at random, but I would probably put it into where the character is doing a lot of unskilled checks while using whatever would be close to youtube videos and DIY-books (what I was referring to when saying a lot or roleplaying). That's also probably why the Scouts are infamous for having such a bad survival rate.

I'm opposed to it being impossible, not against it being hard and risky :evil:
 
I wouldn't put it really at random, but I would probably put it into where the character is doing a lot of unskilled checks while using whatever would be close to youtube videos and DIY-books (what I was referring to when saying a lot or roleplaying). That's also probably why the Scouts are infamous for having such a bad survival rate.

I'm opposed to it being impossible, not against it being hard and risky :evil:
Well, I think of Jack of all trades is more of talent than a skill. It’s not something that can be specifically trained for by its very nature.
 
So, either MgT1 works different in that regard, or your Referee runs with his own house-rules. I can't find anything in MgT2 about having an upper limit post char-gen.
I simply had never noticed this rule...:grin:
Was it ever in MgT1? Another PC started with Skill-5, so we know the GM was allowing it.

Anyway, I suspect many Referees might omit the Skill-4 limit, consciously or not, while probably retaining the INT+EDU limit.

I wouldn't put it really at random, but I would probably put it into where the character is doing a lot of unskilled checks while using whatever would be close to youtube videos and DIY-books (what I was referring to when saying a lot or roleplaying). That's also probably why the Scouts are infamous for having such a bad survival rate.

I'm opposed to it being impossible, not against it being hard and risky :evil:
Actually, there is a way to get JoT-3 after chargen, per RAW.
Get all the skills in the game as Skill-0, done:devil:. Skill-0 isn't limited by the EDU+INT limitation, because no matter how many you add, the sum remains the same.
It's probably going to be faster to gain a Skill-1 in all the related skills, though. But then hey, you have new areas of specialty:tongue:!


Well, I think of Jack of all trades is more of talent than a skill. It’s not something that can be specifically trained for by its very nature.
I know people who believe the same thing for Melee:shade:!
 
So, either MgT1 works different in that regard, or your Referee runs with his own house-rules. I can't find anything in MgT2 about having an upper limit post char-gen.
The limit is having a maximum of skill levels calculated from (Int+Edu) x 3, the need to have study time (8 hours a day) put aside for the number of months equal to twice the level of skill you want to obtain (so 10 months for a Level 5 skill), the cost of training and the need to roll for it at the end with an Education check to see if you’ve learnt anything new.

Most characters spend study time during the week-long jumps, so I keep a tally of 8 jumps needed for one study period. They usually only bother with Level 0 skills though, as they don’t accumulate against the total skills limit.
 
Well, I think of Jack of all trades is more of talent than a skill. It’s not something that can be specifically trained for by its very nature.
Well, I would say it's probably more of a mentality and it can be acquired. However, it's the mentality to tinker, and that's what most formal types of educations and organizations will try hard to train you not to do. :grin:

As the odds of us ever co-GMing Traveller (or even being at the same gaming table) is fairly low, I don't think it is much of a problem that we would handle it differently. :smile:
 
I simply had never noticed this rule...:grin:
Was it ever in MgT1? Another PC started with Skill-5, so we know the GM was allowing it.

Anyway, I suspect many Referees might omit the Skill-4 limit, consciously or not, while probably retaining the INT+EDU limit.
I don't have the MgT1 rules, but I'm curious about it as well. So hopefully someone that have access to it can pitch in.

Actually, I never noticed it in MgT2 either. It wasn't until I read a blog the other day about MgT2 char-gen I noticed that bit. I had ignored it the few times I had read through the book. :tongue:
 
In Mongoose Traveller 1E there is no such thing as Skill Level 5 (per RAW).

Mongoose Traveller 2E seems to have Level 5 as basically sector scale renown and truly exceptional. So not something that occurs in a typical career but only through adventuring.
 
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Just going by Adventures and explanations given over the line. Meaning is always given to Skills 0 to 4 and they don't say "and even higher" or "Level 4 or above" like they do in Classic or Mongoose Traveller 2E.

If you look at the alternate point buy system in MgT 1E it only lists up to 4.
 
It also has to be said that skills above 4 do stretch the system a bit. The default target is still 8 for most things and you also get to add your Characteristic Bonus, with Education especially (because of pre-career Education) capable of being up to 15 (+3 modifier). A +6 or +7 on every roll is pretty powerful for a 2D6 system.
 
Just going by Adventures and explanations given over the line. Meaning is always given to Skills 0 to 4 and they don't say "and even higher" or "Level 4 or above" like they do in Classic or Mongoose Traveller 2E.

If you look at the alternate point buy system in MgT 1E it only lists up to 4.
My question was, is there a rule against it? Because if they don't, I guess they just considered it unlikely:smile:.
 
My question was, is there a rule against it? Because if they don't, I guess they just considered it unlikely:smile:.
Actually it is a little more complicated than I thought.

Directly: There is no rule against developing it later in the game.

The tables for point buying skills stops at 4. So point buy characters are capped in Char Gen. Whether lifepath ones are I don't know. Nothing says they are. Interesting that a life path character can (very rarely) just be better if so. I wonder was the limit at Level 4 for Char Gen in 2E brought in to even the two generation methods.

Tables in later books similarly cap out at Level 4. For example Martial Art styles in later books have tables with their rank names and these stop at Level 4.

A typical example from the line:
Compendium 1 said:
Unlike most kinships, the Masters of Alr’soi has no internal structure to speak of. There are no leadership or administrative roles; instead there are just four positions that relate directly to the warrior’s proficiency in Alr’soi as follows:* Master (Alr’soi level 4)* Adept (Alr’soi level 2–3)* Journeyman (Alr’soi level 1)* Student (no skill level)

There are however three interesting exceptions. NPCs in the 1001 characters supplement. An example is the mysterious alien Susurrus. Clad in black armour which reveals no features she has been spying an all other alien races for at least 50 years. She is given Computers 5. So I guess in Mongoose 1E skill level 5 is "setting level" ability. Like not just good with a sword, but so good you're the last of a dying race or ancient order etc.
 
The tables for point buying skills stops at 4. So point buy characters are capped in Char Gen. Whether lifepath ones are I don't know. Nothing says they are. Interesting that a life path character can (very rarely) just be better if so. I wonder was the limit at Level 4 for Char Gen in 2E brought in to even the two generation methods.
Well, there could be a reasoning back in first edition that trying to get 4+ with random generation still can mean you only end up with 2 or 3. Go with random, and you can get better, but you can also get worse.
 
All of these make sense. In my case, I'd just keep omitting the rule. I'm already making the learning roll progressively harder for higher levels, so I'm set.
And yes, levels 5 and 6 would be setting-level famous, for good and ill:devil:.

Amusingly, I didn't even know there were Martial arts in the later books! That's a big omission for me...
But which book would that be?
 
It is true that skill levels cannot rise above Level 4 in character generation, but they are also limited to a total of (INT+EDU)x3 at any stage. It’s probably worth noting that a Level 4 skill is about Doctorate level, though.

Jack-of-all-Trades is a skill you can only get in character generation and, in my view, should only be obtained through random rolls because otherwise it has a destabilizing effect on the game. It basically negates the need to have skills if you can just purchase Jack-of-all-Trades-3 and be able to do anything without penalty. Mind, you can possibly just spend a load of cash and get skill software for cyberbrain implants, so whatever...

There has been an upper limit on skills based in Int and Edu for as long as I can remember. May have been a mid 80's introduction. Roughly when most of my game group started playing Traveller. ;)

Not sure it is a house rule, but the group I play in, J-O-T in place of a skill, it takes twice as long OR one level harder, and failures are always catastrophic which balances out the risk factor (catastrophic is anything from "you were trying to fix it but you broke it proper now" to "OMG we're all gonna die!")
 
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