Monsters! Monsters! is the new TnT

Best Selling RPGs - Available Now @ DriveThruRPG.com
zanshin

zanshin

Legendary Pubber
Joined
Jan 13, 2021
Messages
845
Reaction score
1,817
So , not wanting to create cross board drama (because there isn't really drama at the Trollbridge as such) but pubbers may, or may not be aware that Webbed Sphere, the holders of Ken St Andre's original roleplaying game have withdrawn the agreement for 3rd party publishers to produce material for it. This has resulted in a lot of T&T material disappearing from drive thru, including the most recent 2 issues of Trollszine that were published by Tavernmasters.

However, an alternative has emerged. Monsters! Monsters! was written by Steve Jackson (of GURPs fame) and was very much influenced by TnT. Things like Monster Rating, saving rolls and cloud of fists combat were/are all present. A second edition was released in 2020 and is now the system in which Ken St Andre is publishing new stuff.

Spell names are different across the 2 games, though there are certainly echoes of the original - Take that you Fool for example :smile: is a 1st level spell.

More stuff is being produced and kickstarted by Steve Crompton and KSA. Essentially you can use it with your material for the other game :smile:

If you are interested in a more involved discussion of whats going on, please nip over to Vin's Trollbridge (link follows) but also happy to chat about it here.

 
One of the reasons I wrote A Fantasy Game was discussion of where things would go with T&T's new owners. I wanted to do something similar but different. http://www.uncouthsavage.com/uploads/1/3/3/2/133279619/afgfmt.pdf

Anyhow, it's sad to see a publisher misread their audience like that but it happens all the time in this industry. It's interesting that Monsters! Monsters! is a separate license. Hopefully it works out for people. A Fantasy Game probably isn't close enough to suit T&T fans.

A long time ago there was a Space Gamer article on converting TFT to T&T as Metagaming had gone out of business. Perhaps now it's time for the rebuttal.
 
Last edited:
At this stage I think we're going to need to assume an antagonistic relationship with the new owners. Not what anyone wanted, but it is what it is.

Is it worth considering putting out a retroclone as a T&T supplement? No trade dress obviously, just uncopyrightable stuff.
 
David Johansen said:
One of the reasons I wrote A Fantasy Game was discussion of where things would go with T&T's new owners. I wanted to do something similar but different. http://www.uncouthsavage.com/uploads/1/3/3/2/133279619/afgfmt.pdf

Anyhow, it's sad to see a publisher misread their audience like that but it happens all the time in this industry. It's interesting that Monsters! Monsters! is a separate license. Hopefully it works out for people. A Fantasy Game probably isn't close enough to suit T&T fans.

A long time ago there was a Space Gamer article on converting TFT to T&T as Metagaming had gone out of business. Perhaps now it's time for the rebuttal.
Click to expand...
I like what you have done there, and it definitely has that 'could have been made in the 70's' feel in a good way, but it's not pick up and play with your other materials, while M!M! is, IMO.
 
Man, you guys sure give up easily. T&T has had longer, dryer spells than this before. WAAAAAAAAYYYYYYY longer.

Webbed Sphere hasn't been inspiring confidence, no. But they're a small company, and they had a bunch of their stock of T&T stuff destroyed. As for what they're doing with 3rd party stuff, well, it sucks. I'd hope they're gearing up for a new licensing agreement, but I'd also hope they'd have had that ironed out before they pulled the plug on the old one.

I hope they pull their heads out, but if they don't, perhaps they will sell it to someone who really wants to see the game continue to thrive and grow.

As far as M!M!, I haven't looked closely at The new edition. I'm sure it's similar to Deluxe T&T. Which is great. But I'm not exactly in a bind for T&T rules. I have something like 15 copies of various editions, I'll be fine.

Sure, I can use M!M! adventures with T&T, but I'm not exactly hurting for adventure material either. But if the T&T third party community wants to keep putting out adventures using M!M!, great, I can use those, too.

Like I said, I'd love to see T&T thrive and grow. But if it dies, I'll just add it to the list of dead games I play and love. I'm not sure M!M! is gonna scratch that itch, and besides, my old backscratcher still works just fine.
 
zanshin said:
I like what you have done there, and it definitely has that 'could have been made in the 70's' feel in a good way, but it's not pick up and play with your other materials, while M!M! is, IMO.
Click to expand...
Thanks

It's fine that it's not the right tool for the job, it's just a thought experiment really. I think it really started with a thread by The Wyzard on rpg.net two or three years ago where he talked about what he would do with T&T. There've been a few other discussions that fed into it. As with most of my experimentation with other systems, it goes too far off the track. I will say writing the solitaire adventure was a royal pain but it won't be my last. At the time there was some discussion about what T&T's new owners would do and I said to wait and see before looking for a replacement. I do wonder if M!M! license will cause legal issues. You don't buy a property and then fail to defend it.
 
Gringnr said:
Man, you guys sure give up easily. T&T has had longer, dryer spells than this before. WAAAAAAAAYYYYYYY longer.

Webbed Sphere hasn't been inspiring confidence, no. But they're a small company, and they had a bunch of their stock of T&T stuff destroyed. As for what they're doing with 3rd party stuff, well, it sucks. I'd hope they're gearing up for a new licensing agreement, but I'd also hope they'd have had that ironed out before they pulled the plug on the old one.

I hope they pull their heads out, but if they don't, perhaps they will sell it to someone who really wants to see the game continue to thrive and grow.

As far as M!M!, I haven't looked closely at The new edition. I'm sure it's similar to Deluxe T&T. Which is great. But I'm not exactly in a bind for T&T rules. I have something like 15 copies of various editions, I'll be fine.

Sure, I can use M!M! adventures with T&T, but I'm not exactly hurting for adventure material either. But if the T&T third party community wants to keep putting out adventures using M!M!, great, I can use those, too.

Like I said, I'd love to see T&T thrive and grow. But if it dies, I'll just add it to the list of dead games I play and love. I'm not sure M!M! is gonna scratch that itch, and besides, my old backscratcher still works just fine.
Click to expand...
I would just aver, that as someone who edited and supported a fanzine in the wake of the Shipman scandal, that I don't 'give up easily'. However, given the steps taken by WS, I am redeploying my energy elsewhere, as I have a more direct outlet for it.

T&T is a great game. Continue to enjoy.
 
My gut feeling is that T&T got too big (as in bullet stopper bloat) last time out and needs a slimmed down version sticking to the basics with an attractive unified look across the range (colour coded as per level/sourcebooks/whatever). I can't see that (or anything else) happening with WS and as mentioned above this licensing thing is them trying to protect their IP. Why? Maybe to sell on?

Need to pull my finger out with finishing the binding/cover job I started on Monsters Monsters (it's in the book press but I've been on nights this week and really can't be arsed to do anything) and have a good look/read of it. Again my gut says it's fine for one shots and novelty games but not something that springs to mind with campaigns.

Mind you I always thought that about T&T back in the day (when D&D was our go to) and the play by post we have on Trollbridge is coming up to its first year with no sign of slowdown and I have big/nasty plans (in terms of what the PCs will face) for where that is going so I'm wrong there too.

If M!M! were to come out with a more conventional Class/Level/Adventurer version and include different races (4th Level Vampire Rogue and a 2nd Level Gelatinous Cube warrior in the same party anyone?) it would be something of a novelty and appeal to more traditional gamers. Maybe I'm just an old fart who likes what he likes and you'll have to prise my favourite version of <insert game> from my cold dead hands... Might be wrong about that too. Here's hoping Ken/Steve listen to fans or at least ask what they want from a new version of M!M!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Banner: The best cosmic horror & Cthulhu Mythos @ DriveThruRPG.com
Back
Top