More dramas for Wizards Of The Coast?

[robertsconley]

Well, there’s a difference between “stole” as in legalspeak, ie. actually broke a law, and “stole” as in ideaspeak, where a bunch of different games were plundered to make this one.

This game looks like a cut ‘n’ paste hack job.

The entire OSR is technically a cut n' paste hack job. But at the end of the day there are good clones that people liked a lot and other clones that just went nowhere or were criticized.

The problem wasn't that we all are working with older editions, the problem was that some authors are good writers and some are not.

If there is a problem with the Critical Role quickstart then it is because Matt Mercer and his team didn't do a good job writing it. As I don't give two shits about the genre Critical Role is targeting I am not a good judge as to whether it is useful, fun, or interesting to fans of that genre. The setting they created likewise is uninteresting to me not because of their writing style. Because setting like that are not my cup of tea so to speak.

I can say it didn't make me go "Wow I want to run a campaign in that type of setting". But then again it would be a hard sell for me to begin with.

 

[Baulderstone]

I've been following that stuff pretty closely and it is one of the reasons I get so concerned. I used to be a musician and would absolutely not want to be writing music in today's environment. It would be a constant concern

It certainly makes a good talking for point for WotC to get people attacking any game that uses mechanics from another game, given that they own the "original" RPG. Of course, in reality, 5E contains almost no original D&D mechanics, instead being rebuilt over the last few edition almost entirely from mechanics taken from other later RPGs.

Getting obsessed with originality often leads to bad game design, with a designer doing something for sake of being original when a time-tested mechanic could have been slotted in.

 

[CRKrueger]

I don't care much, people have swiped my stuff, at least some have had the decency to ask, if I total up all I have made I am in the red anyways. As far as CR, never watched it anyways, and I am sure if D&D used their format to make another show, they would rake in the dough, people would watch it.

I think they'd need a celeb. There's the whole Day-Wheaton crowd, but you also have guys like Matthew Lillard making some crazy premium products, a lot of streamers, a huge amount of people they could get for single game streams.

Social Media "Partnering" is near free marketing for everyone.

WotC hired Manganiello to do a Dragonlance TV Series, there's a chance he could also do some videos of his home game, but I'm sure that table would be wildly problematic, though funny as hell.

 

[Necrozius]

If they can help steer mainstream hobbyists away from "everything is D&D or Pathfinder" then they get my cheers (but not my money, 'cause I've got enough games as it is).

 

[Baulderstone]

I think they'd need a celeb. There's the whole Day-Wheaton crowd, but you also have guys like Matthew Lillard making some crazy premium products, a lot of streamers, a huge amount of people they could get for single game streams.

Social Media "Partnering" is near free marketing for everyone.

WotC hired Manganiello to do a Dragonlance TV Series, there's a chance he could also do some videos of his home game, but I'm sure that table would be wildly problematic, though funny as hell.

Getting the right talent would be important, but even that might not be enough.

I don't think Hasbro making their own streaming show is a slamdunk. Making a TV show is an entirely different kind of expertise than making a tabletop RPG, and its one that Hasbro has no experience with.

I suspect that Hasbro would even be at a disadvantage as everything about the show will have to be filtered through legal and marketing, as well taking into account how well is promoting the current product line. Only after all the boxes are checked can they start thinking about actually making it entertaining.

 

[deflagratio]

Getting the right talent would be important, but even that might not be enough.

I don't think Hasbro making their own streaming show is a slamdunk. Making a TV show is an entirely different kind of expertise than making a tabletop RPG, and its one that Hasbro has no experience with.

I suspect that Hasbro would even be at a disadvantage as everything about the show will have to be filtered through legal and marketing, as well taking into account how well is promoting the current product line. Only after all the boxes are checked can they start thinking about actually making it entertaining.

Hasbro has proven that they can make a movie that doesn't suck. So we know they can great some kind of content without tripping over themselves. Yes, making a TV Show is different, but a lot of what worked for the movie should transfer. However, never bet against Hasbro tripping up.

 

[hawkeyefan]

Isn't Hasbro setting up a whole 24-7 streaming channel soon?

 

[JAMUMU]

Isn't Hasbro setting up a whole 24-7 streaming channel soon?

And with Hasbro's deft touch, it'll be only $99.99 a month!

 

[dragoner]

The success of Critical Role was largely about the people, though. I understand that their style is not everyone's cup of tea (and I have to be in the right mood), but a lot of people really like it, and it was their personalities that made the show.

If WotC wanted to make their own version, it's success would largely be contingent on who they put on it. They'd probably do well if they were willing to pay some celebrities who already have name recognition to do it.

I think they'd need a celeb. There's the whole Day-Wheaton crowd, but you also have guys like Matthew Lillard making some crazy premium products, a lot of streamers, a huge amount of people they could get for single game streams.

Social Media "Partnering" is near free marketing for everyone.

WotC hired Manganiello to do a Dragonlance TV Series, there's a chance he could also do some videos of his home game, but I'm sure that table would be wildly problematic, though funny as hell.

I am just like Mark Twain: "If you find yourself on the side of the majority it is time to pause and reflect." I mean it is just who I am and I do not think badly or judge anyone who likes CR or D&D. I think D&D does have a streaming service and are doing some things, maybe with Manganiello? I have a feeling that D&D hasbro is saying we'll make our own CR with hookers and blow! I do think if taken up by Hollywood, which a lot of that stuff is, they will be able to attract some star power.

 

[JAMUMU]

I am just like Mark Twain: "If you find yourself on the side of the majority it is time to pause and reflect." I mean it is just who I am and I do not think badly or judge anyone who likes CR or D&D. I think D&D does have a streaming service and are doing some things, maybe with Manganiello? I have a feeling that D&D hasbro is saying we'll make our own CR with hookers and blow! I do think if taken up by Hollywood, which a lot of that stuff is, they will be able to attract some star power.

I want to see Leonardio DeCaprio play a Bard holidaying in Waterdeep during the "Hot Student Summer Fayre".

 

[dragoner]

I want to see Leonardio DeCaprio play a Bard holidaying in Waterdeep during the "Hot Student Summer Fayre".

You never know, wishes can come true. This is the same old corporate jive of selling self identity with products like smoke them reds like the duke etc.. I lived in Hollywood, during the riots even, and it is as great and terrible a place as one can only imagine. Mercer is an actor, dues paying member of sag as a voice actor, kind of trippy though I also respect them because it used to be that if you were an actor, you got on their health plan, which was great if one was poor.

 

[Baulderstone]

Hasbro has proven that they can make a movie that doesn't suck. So we know they can great some kind of content without tripping over themselves. Yes, making a TV Show is different, but a lot of what worked for the movie should transfer. However, never bet against Hasbro tripping up.

No, they sold the rights to Paramount and had them make a movie, which then failed to make money.

Critical Role is a show made by experienced veterans of the entertainment industry. Hasbro are the inexperienced little guys in this competition.

 

[dragoner]

D&D will be able to throw money at whatever they do, in other news, the print runs for the new edition are so large that the printers are having problems printing them all.

 

[SJB]

They seem to be name checking Vaesen as the other big influence.

 

[BedrockBrendan]

D&D will be able to throw money at whatever they do, in other news, the print runs for the new edition are so large that the printers are having problems printing them all.

I do wonder about this statement. It could be true, but it also could be they went with a printer who can't handle the volume they normally deal in. Or it could be business as usual turned into marketing. It wouldn't be the first edition to print the books at different times.

What really matters is how much bigger or smaller their print runs are with this edition compared with previous editions. It is sort of like how something selling out in the first week could mean massive sales, or simply mean they didn't print enough copies to begin with.

 

[dragoner]

As far as how Hollywood works, Nathanael West’s novel, The Day of the Locust https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Day_of_the_Locust (also the origin of Homer Simpson) is good.

 

[CRKrueger]

I do wonder about this statement. It could be true, but it also could be they went with a printer who can't handle the volume they normally deal in. Or it could be business as usual turned into marketing. It wouldn't be the first edition to print the books at different times.

What really matters is how much bigger or smaller their print runs are with this edition compared with previous editions. It is sort of like how something selling out in the first week could mean massive sales, or simply mean they didn't print enough copies to begin with.

All you can be sure of is that no matter what the press release says, it's lying. The trick is knowing how.

 

[Baulderstone]

D&D will be able to throw money at whatever they do, in other news, the print runs for the new edition are so large that the printers are having problems printing them all.

That was a hilariously contrived story if ever there was one. Crawford announcing that D&D is so popular now that they need to stagger the releases of the PHB, MM, and DMG rather than print them all at one. I bet that has never happened before with any edition. At least Crawford can always count Polygon to print his clown barf.

 

[dragoner]

That was a hilariously contrived story if ever there was one. Crawford announcing that D&D is so popular now that they need to stagger the releases of the PHB, MM, and DMG rather than print them all at one. I bet that has never happened before with any edition. At least Crawford can always count Polygon to print his clown barf.

At the same time they have everyone reposting it like it is true, sort of marketing in action, it doesn't even matter if it is true ultimately. Confucius is supposed to have said that if a million people believe in a stupid thing, it is still a stupid thing. Though the marketeers standpoint is about them believing it, just a big old circus.

 

[Baulderstone]

At the same time they have everyone reposting it like it is true, sort of marketing in action, it doesn't even matter if it is true ultimately. Confucius is supposed to have said that if a million people believe in a stupid thing, it is still a stupid thing. Though the marketeers standpoint is about them believing it, just a big old circus.

That's the kind of thing that works when you are selling a blockbuster movie to the general public. D&D is a different market made up of dedicated hobbyists that obsess over small details. This is just another case that shows how a company of Hasbro's scale is either going to ultimately fail with D&D or simply take the D&D brand name and use it to sell things to the general public. They are never going to be competent at selling to tabletop gamers now that they have largely drained out the leftover institutional knowledge from the days when WotC was an independent company.

 

[Jacob Rodgers]

Yeah, CR was lightning-in-a-bottle. Many have tried to replicate their success, and only a few (Brennan Lee Mulligan, Mark Hulmes) have come close. And they've guested on CR and had CR folks as guests.

Not even the most cocaine-addled Hollywood exec can make that happen on a whim. You'd have more success at selling a Tickle-Me-Baby Yoda.

 

[dragoner]

That's the kind of thing that works when you are selling a blockbuster movie to the general public. D&D is a different market made up of dedicated hobbyists that obsess over small details. This is just another case that shows how a company of Hasbro's scale is either going to ultimately fail with D&D or simply take the D&D brand name and use it to sell things to the general public. They are never going to be competent at selling to tabletop gamers now that they have largely drained out the leftover institutional knowledge from the days when WotC was an independent company.

If they collapsed and were gone tomorrow, I don't think it would impact me much today, someone else would take their place if there was a need. I did a paper on IBM called rise and fall of the megacorp, received an A though it was mostly just blah blah blah. I think with a lot of this it is only to keep their name active. I'm not much of a D&D customer anyways, I have some of their books, though I don't have any plans of running a game anytime in the future. Definitely not their target market.

 

[BedrockBrendan]

If they collapsed and were gone tomorrow, I don't think it would impact me much today, someone else would take their place if there was a need. I did a paper on IBM called rise and fall of the megacorp, received an A though it was mostly just blah blah blah. I think with a lot of this it is only to keep their name active. I'm not much of a D&D customer anyways, I have some of their books, though I don't have any plans of running a game anytime in the future. Definitely not their target market.

My feeling on this is the hobby would benefit from having a company soley focused on RPGs be the biggest publisher. I think part of the problem with WOTC is it is bigger than D&D and that's why you end up with things like the OGL fiasco. But they also do have a real impact on the shape of the hobby because of their size.

 

[PencilBoy99]

There's been a lot of twitter buzz about WotC jacking up their book prices.

 

[Fenris-77]

There's been a lot of twitter buzz about WotC jacking up their book prices.

 

[Bunch]

My feeling on this is the hobby would benefit from having a company soley focused on RPGs be the biggest publisher. I think part of the problem with WOTC is it is bigger than D&D and that's why you end up with things like the OGL fiasco. But they also do have a real impact on the shape of the hobby because of their size.

Well you mean TSR? It didn't go so well for them. Hasbro does bring diversification of income so more stability than just the RPG fad tendency.

 

[BedrockBrendan]

Well you mean TSR? It didn't go so well for them. Hasbro does bring diversification of income so more stability than just the RPG fad tendency.

I don't think the issue was focusing soley on RPGs with TSR, there was a lot of mismanagement going on there. There are plenty of large RPG companies standing the test of time. I would rather have one of those be the big bad in the room than WOTC

 

[Bunch]

I don't think the issue was focusing soley on RPGs with TSR, there was a lot of mismanagement going on there. There are plenty of large RPG companies standing the test of time. I would rather have one of those be the big bad in the room than WOTC

I think lots of things change when you are the far and away #1 making money hand over fist. That's the point you can afford a little mismanagement and that grows to big mismanagement. I would suspect more than a few currently well run companies would end up with similar fates when they moved to a strong dominant position.


I've never worked at Amazon and I understand many people's dislike of them but they have at a top level a greater focus on the bottom line details than almost any of their competitors. They have much more room to fumble and fail than many other tech companies in my opinion.

 

[BedrockBrendan]

I think lots of things change when you are the far and away #1 making money hand over fist. That's the point you can afford a little mismanagement and that grows to big mismanagement. I would suspect more than a few currently well run companies would end up with similar fates when they moved to a strong dominant position.

But that even adds to the problem. The OGL Fiasco would likely have self corrected more with a smaller company that was focused on RPGs (one it would have been less likely to happen in the first place, two it would have resulted in real loss for the company---whereas WOTC can weather this no matter what, and they can throw money at any litigation if they had decided to push the pedal on this one).

I've never worked at Amazon and I understand many people's dislike of them but they have at a top level a greater focus on the bottom line details than almost any of their competitors. They have much more room to fumble and fail than many other tech companies in my opinion.

Sure but that isn't necessarily a good thing. Amazon has been extremely anticompetitive and is becoming more and more ubiquitous in our lives (in a way I think is unhealthy for society). Again to me it is still not a good thing, because if you have these behemoth companies making missteps (especially if those missteps harm the hobby) you don't want it to be so easy for them to recover, while a similar misstep would be catastrophic for a smaller company that is perhaps more dedicated to the hobby itself.

 

[BedrockBrendan]

I would suspect more than a few currently well run companies would end up with similar fates when they moved to a strong dominant position.

I don't know about this. I think the hobby itself is still fairly small compared to many other industries. And a company like Paizo for example occupying the RPG space that WOTC does (but not the other media and product space that WOTC and Habsro occupy) would probably be fairly manageable for them. Now maybe they would misstep. But I am fine with that. It is one of the reasons we want a strong OGL culture, because if the big company does go down, the hobby can survive. I think a strong culture around OGLs is a much better bet than relying on an RPG strongman company to keep things going.

 

[Baulderstone]

I've never worked at Amazon and I understand many people's dislike of them but they have at a top level a greater focus on the bottom line details than almost any of their competitors. They have much more room to fumble and fail than many other tech companies in my opinion.

I think Amazon's biggest issue is that they have completely lost control of the quality of the merchandise in their store. I needed a new standing lamp last year, and decided to buy one there. I got a long list of lamps with brand names that came out of a random word generator. There were about 20 lamps on the first page but there were only three photos between them. Not seeing anything recognizable, I got the Amazon's Choice one.

When it arrived, almost none of the pieces fit screwed together right. Each segment of the lamp we angled a slightly different way, and after two weeks, it just stopped working. I ordered a new lamp from Cosco and resolved not to buy anything from Amazon. The Cosco lamp was actually a sturdy, well-built light that expect with last for years. I understand that it's hard for them to police everything in their store, but this crappy lamp was singled out as having quality that represented the Amazon brand.

I agree they are masters of logistics, but it doesn't matter how quickly you get something in someone's hands if they hate it.

 

[Bunch]

I think Amazon's biggest issue is that they have completely lost control of the quality of the merchandise in their store. I needed a new standing lamp last year, and decided to buy one there. I got a long list of lamps with brand names that came out of a random word generator. There were about 20 lamps on the first page but there were only three photos between them. Not seeing anything recognizable, I got the Amazon's Choice one.

When it arrived, almost none of the pieces fit screwed together right. Each segment of the lamp we angled a slightly different way, and after two weeks, it just stopped working. I ordered a new lamp from Cosco and resolved not to buy anything from Amazon. The Cosco lamp was actually a sturdy, well-built light that expect with last for years. I understand that it's hard for them to police everything in their store, but this crappy lamp was singled out as having quality that represented the Amazon brand.

I agree they are masters of logistics, but it doesn't matter how quickly you get something in someone's hands if they hate it.

That is a huge problem for them both as straight product quality and fraud.

 

[CRKrueger]

I think Amazon's biggest issue is that they have completely lost control of the quality of the merchandise in their store. I needed a new standing lamp last year, and decided to buy one there. I got a long list of lamps with brand names that came out of a random word generator. There were about 20 lamps on the first page but there were only three photos between them. Not seeing anything recognizable, I got the Amazon's Choice one.

When it arrived, almost none of the pieces fit screwed together right. Each segment of the lamp we angled a slightly different way, and after two weeks, it just stopped working. I ordered a new lamp from Cosco and resolved not to buy anything from Amazon. The Cosco lamp was actually a sturdy, well-built light that expect with last for years. I understand that it's hard for them to police everything in their store, but this crappy lamp was singled out as having quality that represented the Amazon brand.

I agree they are masters of logistics, but it doesn't matter how quickly you get something in someone's hands if they hate it.

Nearly everything on Amazon is drop shipped Chinese trash. If it's a recognized company that has their own Amazon store, ok, if not, screw it.

 

[Ladybird]

I want to see Leonardio DeCaprio play a Bard holidaying in Waterdeep during the "Hot Student Summer Fayre".

I heard DeCaprio dropped D&D when he heard 4e went up to 30.

 

[JAMUMU]

Nearly everything on Amazon is drop shipped Chinese trash. If it's a recognized company that has their own Amazon store, ok, if not, screw it.

My housemate bought a knock-off perfume from Amazon and when it arrived it was a knock-off of the knock-off. Summed it up, really.

 

[Bunch]

Nearly everything on Amazon is drop shipped Chinese trash. If it's a recognized company that has their own Amazon store, ok, if not, screw it.

You guys are shopping at a different Amazon than me then. I get tons of decent stuff from them.

 

[AsenRG]

Getting the right talent would be important, but even that might not be enough.

I don't think Hasbro making their own streaming show is a slamdunk. Making a TV show is an entirely different kind of expertise than making a tabletop RPG, and its one that Hasbro has no experience with.

I suspect that Hasbro would even be at a disadvantage as everything about the show will have to be filtered through legal and marketing, as well taking into account how well is promoting the current product line. Only after all the boxes are checked can they start thinking about actually making it entertaining.

"Roll Entertain at Disadvantage..."

 

[dragoner]

If they collapsed and were gone tomorrow, I don't think it would impact me much today, someone else would take their place if there was a need. I did a paper on IBM called rise and fall of the megacorp, received an A though it was mostly just blah blah blah. I think with a lot of this it is only to keep their name active. I'm not much of a D&D customer anyways, I have some of their books, though I don't have any plans of running a game anytime in the future. Definitely not their target market.

Thinking more on this, it would impact me through all the people who like it being impacted, and I don't wish any ill towards anyone.

 

[Voros]

For me the costs of books is a consideration. Seventy dollars I think is getting too steep. If RPG books reach 100, I am just not buying them at that point. Sure there are more expensive hobbies out there with gear that costs in the thousands, but those are luxury hobbies for a lot of people

In Canada most hardcover rpg books have been $70 for a long while. Welcome to Canuckistan suckers!

 

[dragoner]

My housemate bought a knock-off perfume from Amazon and when it arrived it was a knock-off of the knock-off. Summed it up, really.

I ordered a bottle of halston z-14, the good stuff, because walmart stopped carrying it, and I thought it would be a dinky little bottle and no! It was the giant sales counter size for the same price. Hilarious, one has to wonder if the mob is hijacking trucks and then selling it on amazon, this is Ivan and Vinnie's Special Gifts, yeah, that's the ticket.