My confession re: historical wargames

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Kingmaker was a staple of my neighborhood. We played it probably almost daily for months on end. It takes a while to finish so we created a who's turn is it indicator. At one point we added a whole Scotland and set of Noble Houses to the game with more event and action cards. Awesome game with some real issues.
 
I played some of these back in the day. Dawn Patrol from TSR. Panzerblitz, Squad Leader (before it was advanced), Tactics II, Gladiator, Circus Maximus, The Arab-Israeli Wars and Starship Troopers from AH. It has been a long time since I've played one, due to time constraints and not knowing anyone who plays these sort of wargames. I do still have Gladiator, Circus Maximus, Tactics II, Magic Realm and Wooden Ships & Iron Men sitting on my shelf.
 
Ah, fond memories of Imperium Romanum II.

If a game is going to take a day to set up the chits for the scenario, it might as well take a week to play!
 
This thread has inspired me to perhaps actually pull out one of these games and try to learn it. I don't think I'll be able to do it tonight, though. I'm fairly certain getting through one will take me several days, and I can't really leave a wargame set up on my table right now, because tomorrow night we will need the table for RPG Night. I have Friday off, though, maybe then...
 
I really did intend to learn one of these games this weekend. Instead, I ended up buying a new one, haha. Castle Itter from DVG. I also got the Castle Itter Companion, which, based on a quick flip-through, seems to mostly add more historical context. I have not had a chance to learn the game yet. Actually I haven't even had a chance to break the shrink-wrap yet. But I'm looking forward to it!
 
On Dumarests recommendation I checked out Decision Games. I liked what I saw. The small solo games appealed to me very much. So I ordered "Suez'56: Anglo-French Intervention in Egypt". I really like what I received. I finally got a chance to take it for a test drive. I enjoyed it. Two things, the turn track seemed to move faster than I expected. I didn't use my air power very very well. So little learning curve. But to be expected.
 
I learned Castle Itter over the weekend! Played it twice. I really enjoy it. Lost once, won once.
 
I learned another historical wargame this weekend! Zulus on the Ramparts!, specifically. I've now played it six times total, and won twice, but each time I've made at least one rules mistake that went in my favor. Goal now is to win without accidentally cheating :smile: .
 
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Found this over the Christmas break at my parent's house. I haven't played it since the early 90's, and it was one my favourite games back in the day. I think I might be setting this one up next for some solo wargaming... Also found Fire in the East, and The Russian Campaign by AH. Lots of wargaming fun in the next few weeks!
 
Almost a wargame - Pandemic: Fall of Rome. It's all about barbarians pouring over the border and sacking cities, with the players cooperating to hold it together. It's moderately fun. It's gamey - part of winning is collecting a pool of cards the same color as a barbarian group to ally with them. But it takes an hour and it's closer to a wargame than most things your boardgame friends and family will play.
 
Almost a wargame - Pandemic: Fall of Rome. It's all about barbarians pouring over the border and sacking cities, with the players cooperating to hold it together. It's moderately fun. It's gamey - part of winning is collecting a pool of cards the same color as a barbarian group to ally with them. But it takes an hour and it's closer to a wargame than most things your boardgame friends and family will play.

Sounds more up my alley than regular Pandemic.
 
So, about 13 years ago I started collecting 1/32 stuff to use for GURPS. I've got cars and semi trucks and a diesel train. Anyhow, tonight for the first time I got to run GURPS in 1/32. WWII just after Dunkirk. I don't know if that counts as historical gaming but there's figures and a hex map.
 
I don't think I'll ever actually play those that I own; I just really, really, enjoy punching out the counters. :tongue:

(half-kidding. But only half.)

I identify with this. I think I bought all that WFRPG3e stuff for pretty much the same reason. I know that I love sprawling component games like Descent and Shadows of Brimstone even as I loathe to ever haul them out because of setup and teardown. But I do so enjoy all the bits.

I never really played historical wargames. I had some minor exposure to Tobruk, Panzer Leader, and a a Napoleonic wargame I don't recall (That War and Peace box and board pictured above look familiar). There was this one sprawling game my stepdad had called The Next War, which we never actually played.

I played a fair amount of Star Fleet Battles during the 80s and 90s. I have more counters for that than I or even a large group of SFB players would ever need.

I had the first edition of Federation & Empire. That game seemed sprawling out of control to me. It was never so much the board, but the counters. The base set came with what seemed a ludicrous number of counters, and even that wasn't enough. I needed to buy the Reinforcement Pack which had even more counters so I could even set up some of the fleets in their starting values. Those giant stacks of 11 ship fleets along with their backups and support ships struck me as impressive. What was even better was after a few turns of production having a whole line of that kind of crap along a neutral zone, just waiting to ruin some starbase's day.

Never did get very far playing that. My recollection says the furthest we ever got was Hydran activation. Others say we got to Federation entering the war.

But in terms of a strategic hex and counter wargame, the one I played the absolute most was Dragonlance DL-11 Dragons of Glory. In fact, I recall a couple of times having that game set up while we'd also be playing Star Fleet Battles. We'd have Star Trek starship dogfights and the War of the Lance going on at the same time.

I had DL-11 out the other day. The maps are in really rough shape, but I think I still have everything. I was wishing I could play it again, but I don't think I can make that plan fly.
 
Star Fleet Battles is a game and a half IMO. I rank it up there with ASL as far as fan loyalty/following/intricacy. I tried it once in the 80's at a Hobby Store, really liked it, but couldn't find anyone who wanted to play in my neck of the woods. Too bad as it seemed like something that I would have enjoyed exploring more.
I have DL-11 (a friend of mine gave me the whole batch of modules), but have never really looked at it, let alone played it. What are the mechanics like?
 
I have DL-11 (a friend of mine gave me the whole batch of modules), but have never really looked at it, let alone played it. What are the mechanics like?

It's been so damn long, but I'll give a shot at explaining. Keep in mind I may be misremembering a lot.

Dragons of Glory is a strategic scale simulation of the War of the Lance as it raged across the continent of Ansalon. There are two sides: the Whitestone player (forces of good) and the Dragonarmy player (forces of evil). Whitestone starts with exactly jack squat. Dragonarmy starts with all the Highlord leaders, Dragons, and basic Dragonarmy troops. The game lasts for 30 turns.

Each turn a random event is drawn from a cup of counters. At first these counters are trivial events like a bonus to an activation roll (more later). By the end of the game they're things like flying citadel units for the Dragonarmies. The cup is initially filled with just the weak events. Then on turn 10 you add some new counters to the cup. Then on turn 20 you add even more counters to the cup. So the benefits of the events become more impactful the longer the game goes on.

Players roll initiative. I think it's a d4. On a tie, the player who had initiative last turn keeps initiative. The player with initiative will do all his stuff first in the turn. During a player's turn, they attempt any activations, deploy reinforcements, move all their armies, check for invasions, and conduct attacks.

Each turn a player selects what country on the map he wants to try and activate. He may have drawn an event chit which will help him with activations. He rolls a d10 against the activation number for the country. If he succeeds, the country's entire force is deployed within the nation's boundaries and may be used by that player. If he fails, then the nation continues to stay out of the war. Each country has it's own leanings towards the Whitestone or Dragonarmy, but few are a certain thing.

For reinforcements, a player may redeploy 1 out of every 2 units he has lost. The other one is then permanently lost. The Dragonarmies also may spawn Draconian units which are their best shock troops. This represents them corrupting dragon eggs over time.

Then movement is conducted. There are ground units, air units, and sea units. I imagine its all pretty standard. They have a movement allowance and you move them that many hexes. If they can fly, then they can move over terrain without impact.

If you moved inside the borders of a neutral nation, then you have invaded them. Now it's time to have a roll off. The nation will now enter the war on one side or the other. The person who didn't invade them has a bonus on their roll. You roll one after the other until the nation joins a side. Whoever wins gets to deploy all the armies immediately.

Then comes combat. You total up the force value of your units and do the same for the enemy. Then you apply any multipliers: double force value for city defenders, triple force value for fortress defenders. Then you consult an odds chart. Roll a d10 to get the combat result adding any modifiers for things like using leaders, dragons, or attacking into a forest, etc. Units can be depleted (flipped over for reduced effectiveness), retreated, or eliminated.

The game sort of requires you to build big and overwhelming forces to get things done. Defenders can really pick at an attacking force even if outnumbered. To avoid it you need really big ratios like 5 and 6 to 1.

Then the next guy goes. Rinse and repeat for 30 turns. Turns 1 thru 10 go really quick. Turns 10 thru 20 start slowing down, getting longer with each turn. Turn 20 onward is a firestorm.

Oddly, I never found dragons particularly effective in the game. You can also do some pretty goofy stuff with ships.
 
Star Fleet Battles is a game and a half IMO. I rank it up there with ASL as far as fan loyalty/following/intricacy. I tried it once in the 80's at a Hobby Store, really liked it, but couldn't find anyone who wanted to play in my neck of the woods. Too bad as it seemed like something that I would have enjoyed exploring more.
I have DL-11 (a friend of mine gave me the whole batch of modules), but have never really looked at it, let alone played it. What are the mechanics like?

If you think Star Fleet Battles is a game and a half take a look at Federation and Empire. It's about four games and a half.
 
F&E is a monster game that I loved, much more than SFB. It took forever to play - finished games were almost mythical. Hundreds of counters, heavy book keeping, constant need to review the rules. The various add ons add more counters and pump more money in which makes the number of ships/counters in the game remain high to the level almost being unplayable.

The play time and the company's attitudes eventually made me cold on the game.
 
So, I downloaded the Cadet Manual and found a bunch of counters online, and I am going to take the leap into the world of SFB. So far I like what I see. I figure it should give me a good foundation before I look for local gamers with which to try out a more full version. Based on many of the reviews that I have read, the original Pocket Edition, and Designer's Edition seem to be considered the most playable of the various SFB incarnations. Apparently the Cadet version is also favourably viewed. Would those who are familiar with the game agree?
 
If you think Star Fleet Battles is a game and a half take a look at Federation and Empire. It's about four games and a half.
It's probably better if I start out small, and work my way up to it. Besides, I need to see what the local SFB gaming scene is like, if in fact there is even one to speak of.
 
So, I downloaded the Cadet Manual and found a bunch of counters online, and I am going to take the leap into the world of SFB. So far I like what I see. I figure it should give me a good foundation before I look for local gamers with which to try out a more full version. Based on many of the reviews that I have read, the original Pocket Edition, and Designer's Edition seem to be considered the most playable of the various SFB incarnations. Apparently the Cadet version is also favourably viewed. Would those who are familiar with the game agree?

That's a good way to start.

I still have my SFB stuff, but it has been years since I played. I've forgotten more about SFB than there is in the entirety of most other rulesets. Sometimes I do still haul out my old stuff and look at it. I still like it in principle. It's such a solid and thorough game. The feel of simulation is near unparalleled. When I would play, I really would feel like I was fully in command of the power of a starship.

Or at least as much as one can feel that way from filling out "tax forms" and pushing counters around a grid. :tongue:

But when I think about actually trying to play again? It's just too much for me. Part of me wants to, but not enough to get me to commit again. Plus, I've always had to be the rule guru and instructor, and I have decided that I am never going to do that again.
 
SFB is another one I've got... but haven't engaged with yet.
I think part of the issue is that I'd want to set up these games and leave them... play the first games slowly over several days as I learn the rules... and I don't really have a space for that. I need to set a corner aside for it.
I do have a big wargaming table now, but it's on the patio... and not conducive to leaving paper maps and cardstock counters. Maybe I could figure out some sort of lid to put over top.
 
SFB is another one I've got... but haven't engaged with yet.
I think part of the issue is that I'd want to set up these games and leave them... play the first games slowly over several days as I learn the rules... and I don't really have a space for that. I need to set a corner aside for it.
I do have a big wargaming table now, but it's on the patio... and not conducive to leaving paper maps and cardstock counters. Maybe I could figure out some sort of lid to put over top.
If you're not concerned with theft due to leaving your game outside, a clear sheet of plastic or glass would hold the counters in place as well as protect the board or map. The cheapest method is to buy a large plastic snap-together photo/poster frame from a place like Michaels or another craft store, discard (or save) the plastic frame parts, and use the big clear plastic sheet for your games.
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FYI, Federation Commander is the 'updated' version of SFB. You can start with either Klingon Border or Romulan Border. The rules are bit easier to follow.
That's good to know. So far the Cadet Manual lays things out pretty clearly, and once I familiarise myself with what's inside I decide which direction to go.
As I understand it though, isn't Federation Commander a different rule set altogether? Are different mechanics employed for combat, maneuvering, etc?
 
SFB is another one I've got... but haven't engaged with yet.
I think part of the issue is that I'd want to set up these games and leave them... play the first games slowly over several days as I learn the rules... and I don't really have a space for that. I need to set a corner aside for it.
I do have a big wargaming table now, but it's on the patio... and not conducive to leaving paper maps and cardstock counters. Maybe I could figure out some sort of lid to put over top.
Your initial approach to the rules is what I have in mind as well. Fortunately I have a place where I can leave the game set up without fear of it being messed up.
 
That's good to know. So far the Cadet Manual lays things out pretty clearly, and once I familiarise myself with what's inside I decide which direction to go.
As I understand it though, isn't Federation Commander a different rule set altogether? Are different mechanics employed for combat, maneuvering, etc?

It's a streamlined version of the original rules. The basics are the same.
 
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