[Mythras] Mythic Babylon Now Available

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Acmegamer said:
Not an improvement. The font type/size cause freaking eye strain honestly. I've had numerous conversations including a couple emails over the past three or so years on the Core Mythras book's problems. Also yeah they've made it clear that it wasn't cost effective to correct the issues. Doesn't make me happy. Also they don't list an errata list/pdf like most developers do. Which I criticised on Drivethrurpg with them because it would be really nice to be able to update our physical books with corrections etc that they've done/noted.

I know I should just let it lie, but I am passionate about their mechanics. They've done a good job at improving the BRP mechanics in my opinion. Anyhow I think I'll try to stop pointing out the issues, they're aware of them and that quite a few of us have these issues with the Core book. Since it's not going to change and I don't want to brow beat them over and over, I need to let it go. On the positive side the font type/size layouts are much much better and usable in Lyonesse and it looks like Mythic Babylon. :thumbsup:
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The 3rd Revision of Mythras has the errata and corrections at the back of the book. I much prefer the size of the original RQ6 book, which I still use to refer to, but use the digital copy of Mythras when needed. Since some future Mythras books will be standalone (like Classic Fantasy) perhaps there's a chance we will get back Mythras in a similar format to RQ6.

Mythic Babylon is slightly more dense than Monster Island (which is similar to RQ6) but it is a larger font and more readable than Mythras core rules.
 
Raleel said:
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Thanks Raleel. What's odd is I had a conversation with one of the two (don't recall which) where they said updated errata wasn't feasible. I don't want to miss quote either of them because I do like them but I know I found it annoying enough that I ranted to my wife about it for some time. Lol

Anyhow, I really do need to just let it go and just stop complaining about theses issues. So as I posted earlier I'm going to make an effort to do so. :thumbsup:
 
Individual complaints rarely make the slightest difference to an rpg publisher. They are already on razor thin margins and it isn't possible to re-typeset a whole book to solve the issues for a few folks. They redid RQ6 when it became Mythras and changed the ligature font as they had so many people with issues of not being able to easily read that they probably had little choice but to make the change when the rest of the layout needing changing to remove the RQ references anyway.
 
And, you know, reduced the size of the book by about a third, making those razor thin margins possible for a small company :smile:
 
Acmegamer said:
Thanks Raleel. What's odd is I had a conversation with one of the two (don't recall which) where they said updated errata wasn't feasible. I don't want to miss quote either of them because I do like them but I know I found it annoying enough that I ranted to my wife about it for some time. Lol

Anyhow, I really do need to just let it go and just stop complaining about theses issues. So as I posted earlier I'm going to make an effort to do so. :thumbsup:
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It depends on the corrections. If we correct small things like typos and spelling mistakes (which many readers often don't spot or notice), then no, we don't list them. Do you honestly need a document saying that we've corrected 'hte' to 'the', or deleted a comma?

Major errata - where we need to clarify a rule, restructure it, or even move things around in the book - is where we provide an errata list. Just as we have done with the major errata for Mythras.

Regarding the layout of Mythras and the font size... we learn something new with every book. We improve. We find new and better ways of doing things. We then roll these forward into our future titles. The books we publish now look much different to when we first started. We use more colour, different fonts and spacing choices, and even font sizes. We had three major complaints about RQ6: use of space, the much-loved ligatures, and the size of the book. So we took all this onboard for Mythras and attempted to accommodate all three, without reducing the content. Guess what: if you want to reduce the page count but not reduce the content, something somewhere has to shrink, and in this case it was the font size (which is 9 point Baskerville). We reduced the page count by about 30%. If we'd used 10 point, then the page count reduction might have been about 10% - in other words, a 400 page rulebook rather than 450.

But we do listen, so at some stage, when we release Mythras second edition (and it will be some time in the future before than happens), it will be 10 point throughout, likely have full colour, and all sorts of bells and whistles that we've learned in the 6 years since we first produced it. But we need a very compelling reason to go back and re-do the core rules beyond updating some aspects of the layout. In others words, there'd need to be some substantive changes to the rules too, and right now, we're very happy with the rules.
 
Loz said:
It depends on the corrections. If we correct small things like typos and spelling mistakes (which many readers often don't spot or notice), then no, we don't list them. Do you honestly need a document saying that we've corrected 'hte' to 'the', or deleted a comma?

Major errata - where we need to clarify a rule, restructure it, or even move things around in the book - is where we provide an errata list. Just as we have done with the major errata for Mythras.

Regarding the layout of Mythras and the font size... we learn something new with every book. We improve. We find new and better ways of doing things. We then roll these forward into our future titles. The books we publish now look much different to when we first started. We use more colour, different fonts and spacing choices, and even font sizes. We had three major complaints about RQ6: use of space, the much-loved ligatures, and the size of the book. So we took all this onboard for Mythras and attempted to accommodate all three, without reducing the content. Guess what: if you want to reduce the page count but not reduce the content, something somewhere has to shrink, and in this case it was the font size (which is 9 point Baskerville). We reduced the page count by about 30%. If we'd used 10 point, then the page count reduction might have been about 10% - in other words, a 400 page rulebook rather than 450.

But we do listen, so at some stage, when we release Mythras second edition (and it will be some time in the future before than happens), it will be 10 point throughout, likely have full colour, and all sorts of bells and whistles that we've learned in the 6 years since we first produced it. But we need a very compelling reason to go back and re-do the core rules beyond updating some aspects of the layout. In others words, there'd need to be some substantive changes to the rules too, and right now, we're very happy with the rules.
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...and the return of ligatures, right?
 
Would ligatures affect the font so much to change layout? If not, there could be two versions.

The version for fine, upstanding, persons of taste, class, and intelligence, which would include ligatures.

The version for, well, anyone who isn’t the above, without ligatures. :devil:
 
This is probably an unpopular opinion, but maybe make 2nd edition two books. The core book sans magic/powers/creatures but add in extra rules options and equipment from other books. The 2nd book would be all the magic/powers and creatures.

So something like Mythras Core book with material from Mythras Companion, Ships and Shield Walls, and modern/future tech and vehicles from supplements would be the new "core" book.

The second book would have the magic/powers/creatures from current core book, Monster Island, psionics from Luther Arkwright, upcoming super powers, etc.

Basically a 2 volume Mythras version of the BRP BGB.

And put it in a slip case. :-)
 
Spellslinging Sellsword said:
This is probably an unpopular opinion, but maybe make 2nd edition two books. The core book sans magic/powers/creatures but add in extra rules options and equipment from other books. The 2nd book would be all the magic/powers and creatures.

So something like Mythras Core book with material from Mythras Companion, Ships and Shield Walls, and modern/future tech and vehicles from supplements would be the new "core" book.

The second book would have the magic/powers/creatures from current core book, Monster Island, psionics from Luther Arkwright, upcoming super powers, etc.

Basically a 2 volume Mythras version of the BRP BGB.

And put it in a slip case. :-)
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I would like the crocodile skin cover version of monster island first, please.
 
I would like to take a moment to consider who the idiots were who complained about the size of the RQ6 book. The ligatures are one thing (I like them) but the print size of the text was about perfect, and the page count is not huge compared to many other RPG books.
 
Spellslinging Sellsword Spellslinging Sellsword I guess you may not know about Mythras Imperative which is most of what you asked and added to the Companion makes for a useful (and cheap) Mythras experience (No monsters or magic to speak of though)
 
Spellslinging Sellsword said:
This is probably an unpopular opinion, but maybe make 2nd edition two books. The core book sans magic/powers/creatures but add in extra rules options and equipment from other books. The 2nd book would be all the magic/powers and creatures.

So something like Mythras Core book with material from Mythras Companion, Ships and Shield Walls, and modern/future tech and vehicles from supplements would be the new "core" book.

The second book would have the magic/powers/creatures from current core book, Monster Island, psionics from Luther Arkwright, upcoming super powers, etc.

Basically a 2 volume Mythras version of the BRP BGB.

And put it in a slip case. :-)
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Actually, the best version would be "make 2nd edition a choice between two books (split as above) and one book with bigger pagecount and font", IMO. Don't know if it's commercially viable, but hey, it's worth considering.
(I don't know how much layout costs you, especially since I've met some cheap(er) but experienced layout artists due to working in a newspaper...so I suspect I'd probably end up underestimating that part:thumbsup:).
 
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I believe that when the new LA comic comes out they will have a revised version ready (possibly as a standalone book).
 
So, does anyone know what's the difference in quality (if any) between Lulu and DTRPG "Premium Color" printings?
 
Luca said:
So, does anyone know what's the difference in quality (if any) between Lulu and DTRPG "Premium Color" printings?
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The cover is different, with the Lulu being the matte cover and DTRPG being glossy. I'm not sure how the paper quality compares. I've got the Lulu print and (defects noted above aside, and TDM is already sending me a replacement, so that's cool of them) the paper quality and text print is very good, much better than the DTRPG standard printings I've gotten in the past. I don't know how much of an upgrade DTRPG's premium is over standard printings, but I'd be surprised if it's any better than the Lulu print. Assuming those are relatively equal, I think the matte cover is nicer.
 
Luca said:
So, does anyone know what's the difference in quality (if any) between Lulu and DTRPG "Premium Color" printings?
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https://help.lulu.com/en/support/solutions/articles/64000255473-cover-and-interior-paper-stocks says that Lulu uses #60 weight paper, unless for some reason they went with the #80, but I think that’s pretty unlikely at $45 for the hardback. I imagine Loz can answer this one, since, if I understand correctly, he gets to choose that.

https://support.drivethrurpg.com/hc...between-B-W-Premium-Color-and-Standard-Color- says DTRPG uses #70 weight for everything and the difference is only in the intensity of the color. This was updated a month or so back, so it may be current for the most July 1 changeover.
 
Lulu does indeed use #60 weight paper. The quality is excellent.

Drivethru's Premium colour printings are going to be escalating rapidly in price very soon. The printers used for the premium books have been declared obsolescent, and LightningSource are hiking the price for premium books by at least 40%. This has caused a mad scramble to try to get Standard copies available from small publishers. A nightmare process - and costly, as brand new proofs have to be ordered on every new format added. We do offer Standard on Babylon, and the quality is good - although I personally prefer Lulu's.
 
Raleel said:
Did they not do it yet? DTRPG’s premium mythic Babylon went up rather sharply last week, and is currently nearly $80.
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I haven't checked DTRPG for a few days, so looks like it has.

Bloody LightningSource.
 
Loz said:
I haven't checked DTRPG for a few days, so looks like it has.

Bloody LightningSource.
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On the plus side, it wasn’t a full 40% uptick. Probably closer to 20-25% as I remember.

it is what it is. The business has their way of doing things. Perhaps I’ll pick up one to check out the premium color. It probably makes sense for some books.
 
Loz Loz Got my Aeon publishing copy the other day. A fantastic supplement, I don't know how you guys managed to gather so much detail and info into this book. There's plenty of stuff I notice which is crucial for running a game, but isn't really available in even historic monographs but has to be extracted from minor papers or books and so forth. Well done and really appreciated.
 
Séadna said:
Loz Loz Got my Aeon publishing copy the other day. A fantastic supplement, I don't know how you guys managed to gather so much detail and info into this book. There's plenty of stuff I notice which is crucial for running a game, but isn't really available in even historic monographs but has to be extracted from minor papers or books and so forth. Well done and really appreciated.
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The authors went through all those texts and minor papers to distil what's in the book. It really is an extraordinary achievement.
 
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