Mythras thread

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The Butcher said:
Oh boy. I did not expect to be having this conversation in 2018.

Least of all in the Pub.

Wow. Just... wow.

That is a horribly conceited and pretentious thing to say.

I am going to assume the best possible scenario: that you have never played a decent session of D&D in your life.

In which case, I am sorry.

But there is a world of good D&D out there that goes well beyond cleaning out dungeon rooms with fireballs.

And you are coming across, to me at least, as a horrible snob.

I have a ton of games I don't like. FATE springs to mind. But you will never, ever see me going "typical FATE player" or suggesting D&D or Runequest are "objectively superior" to FATE.

That is concentrated, weapons-grade bullshit.

The only measure of efficacy of a game is how much fun you have when playing it.

If D&D has never, ever afforded you any fun... brother, I am sorry, but you are playing with the wrong people.

Millions of people have played several editions of D&D and had fun. Tons of it. And not just "hack and slash" fun either; I'm fairly sure videogames have that market cornered nowadays.

My first session of D&D was 26 years ago (as a DM!), and I just finished my last session literally five minutes ago. Can't wait for the next one!

In tonight's session, I have:
  • rolled eight skill checks in three hours. So much for the "useless skill system."
  • as a 2nd-level bard, successfully intimidated the Open Lord of Waterdeep. So much for "can't convince a beggar to take my money at 1st level."
  • avoided combat in three consecutive encounters, one by sneaking, one by intimidation followed by a hasty escape, and the third by judicious use of control flame and minor illusion cantrips to trick a mutant bat-goblin thing into letting us pass without paying toll. So much for "only combat magic."
Every complaint that you have leveled against D&D as a ruleset, that you've mentioned, is trivially, demonstrably untrue.

The bad, "hack-and-slash" experience you report with D&D, I am sorry to say, has very little to do with the game itself, and everything to do with the people you game with.

"The rules can't cure stupid, and the rules can't cure asshole", as a wise old gamer once said.

The system is equipped to do the campaign your DM wants to run, and can be fine-tuned to the specific setting if he or she (1) gets the specific setting and (2) is willing to put a little work into it.

I would go with Mythras because (1) I like it and (2) I am too lazy to hack D&D. Mythras and Mythic Britain have everything all laid out for immediate use.

You seem to have valid reservations on how your DM is going about this conversion (I agreed with you on quite a few of them), but the anti-D&D spiel pervades and taints your good points.

But I have no pretense of passing off my preference as "superior"; it's just a better fit for me.

Don't be an elfgame snob.

Do one better.

Communities thrive on building bridges, not raising walls.

Want to sell them Mythras? Run it for them.

Don't knock down another game.

Most of all, don't knock down other gamers. Gamers are people. No one likes being reduced to a superficial, misinformed label.

Bring people over to your side with enthusiasm and positivity. Not vitriolic bullshit.

Peace, out.
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Man I’ve DM’d for 30 years (D&D mostly) and my players love my games, hence why I’m constantly nagged to run it. However those D&D games they’re still talking about, had to fight the system all the way. It’s not a great system...BUT...you can still have great games with it. However it’s disingenuous to suggest D&D isn’t built around a tactical war game core and that the vast majority of the mechanics work around combat. Skills are a tack on.

Your example for magic use, using magic to avoid combat. Tactical combat encounter. Look it’s gotten...better(?), over editions at making games less smash and grab but it’s core is what it is.

I’m not being a snob I’m unloading in a safe environment before I spend months playing my friends game which he’s put a ton of work into. I’d rather get it out here in conversation than during game.

You like D&D which is great, no badwrongfun, my opinion is that there are tons of better systems.

Séadna Séadna sorry for the massive derail, I’ll stop responding bit look forward to reading your impressions more.
 
HorusArisen said:
Man I’ve DM’d for 30 years (D&D mostly) and my players love my games, hence why I’m constantly nagged to run it. However those D&D games they’re still talking about, had to fight the system all the way.
Click to expand...

You have asserted that:
  • D&D is only good for hack and slash;
  • your D&D games for the last 30 years were all hack and slash;
  • you had to fight the system all the way.
d21.gif


Choose two, ‘cause these three don’t add up.

HorusArisen said:
However it’s disingenuous to suggest D&D isn’t built around a tactical war game core and that the vast majority of the mechanics work around combat.
Click to expand...

A storygamer will assert this to be true of every trad RPG, up to and including Mythras.

HorusArisen said:
Skills are a tack on.
Click to expand...

Says you.

What objective information do you have to back up this assertion?

Because in the context of D&D3+ it makes zero sense. The game does not play the same at all without skills.

They come into play far, far more often than e.g. Mythras’ Passions.

HorusArisen said:
Your example for magic use, using magic to avoid combat. Tactical combat encounter. Look it’s gotten...better(?), over editions at making games less smash and grab but it’s core is what it is.
Click to expand...

How can it be a “combat encounter” if no combat happened?

I suppose using disguise self to bloodlessly evade the Open Lord’s assassins is a “combat encounter” as well?

You’re stretching the definitions of “tactical” and “combat” a tad thin here.

HorusArisen said:
I’m not being a snob I’m unloading in a safe environment before I spend months playing my friends game which he’s put a ton of work into. I’d rather get it out here in conversation than during game.
Click to expand...

Nevertheless, I take exception to sweeping statements about D&D players (which I absolutely do count myself as one) and outright untruths about the game I dig.

I might be sealioning a bit, but hopefully you can relate.

HorusArisen said:
You like D&D which is great, no badwrongfun, my opinion is that there are tons of better systems.
Click to expand...

Tons of different systems you like better.

Not “better systems.”

There’s no objective yardstick to measure fun.

Preferring D&D to Mythras does not make anyone an “inferior” gamer, as you seem intent on implying with comments like “typical D&D player.”

I had many conversations like this, usually involving GURPS or White Wolf vs. D&D.

In my teens.

At a brick-and-mortar games store. (Remember those?)

Llew ap Hywel HorusArisen, please. Don’t be That Guy.

You seem otherwise reasonable.
 
The Butcher said:
You have asserted that:
  • D&D is only good for hack and slash;
  • your D&D games for the last 30 years were all hack and slash;
  • you had to fight the system all the way.
d21.gif


Choose two, ‘cause these three don’t add up.



A storygamer will assert this to be true of every trad RPG, up to and including Mythras.



Says you.

What objective information do you have to back up this assertion?

Because in the context of D&D3+ it makes zero sense. The game does not play the same at all without skills.

They come into play far, far more often than e.g. Mythras’ Passions.



How can it be a “combat encounter” if no combat happened?

I suppose using disguise self to bloodlessly evade the Open Lord’s assassins is a “combat encounter” as well?

You’re stretching the definitions of “tactical” and “combat” a tad thin here.



Nevertheless, I take exception to sweeping statements about D&D players (which I absolutely do count myself as one) and outright untruths about the game I dig.

I might be sealioning a bit, but hopefully you can relate.



Tons of different systems you like better.

Not “better systems.”

There’s no objective yardstick to measure fun.

Preferring D&D to Mythras does not make anyone an “inferior” gamer, as you seem intent on implying with comments like “typical D&D player.”

I had many conversations like this, usually involving GURPS or White Wolf vs. D&D.

In my teens.

At a brick-and-mortar games store. (Remember those?)

Llew ap Hywel HorusArisen, please. Don’t be That Guy.

You seem otherwise reasonable.
Click to expand...

I did try to highlight I’m venting pregame. I don’t want to disturb the thread further though....

I’ll post a more expansive and reasoned thread on D&D and my experience, opinions again. I will point out my bias is my bias I’m not arguing for agreement .
 
Let me see if I can help everyone out here.

I've uploaded a set of characters that are mostly at the same level of skill. I know the necromancer is a little more, because he has Blood Magic (from the Legend book, with the necessary modifications), and I think the justicar is also a bit modified, but the others should largely be the same. None of these are different enough in skill level or APs to cause issues if you ran them as is.

https://www.rpgpub.com/resources/mythras-hyborian-age-character-pack-resources.37/

I've run with these using the Legend version of Spider God's Bride by changing exclusively names (resilience-> endurance, Yar-Ammon->Stygian) and it works like a champ. I used the major guy in Knife of the Necromancer as a teacher of blood magic for the Necromancer character in the pack. I used Arcania of Legend: Blood Magic for this. It's quite optional.

I started with The Eidolon of the Ape, almost in media res, with them breaking into the lower level of the temple. I stole a trick from Black Seven where I did not start them with stealth rolls - I assumed they were already being stealthy. I put a slave girl in chains down there, but as it turns out, she was the main female lead in The Jewell of Khadum Bey, and provided the hook for Knife of the Necromancer. She did not factor into The Daughters of Rahma, because the events of JoKB caused them to flee town :smile:
 
Gus, I love you bro, but you’re overreacting.
True, Horus is in a bad place right now, if I was the Emperor I’d be worried.
Still, on AL night I can go into the FLGS, and I will find more than a few of the “typical D&D players” he’s talking about.

Trying to shoehorn everything under the sun into D&D despite there being systems purpose-built for what you want is a thing. People do that more with D&D than any other system for two reasons.
1. It’s the most popular system.
2. If you’re not playing D&D, chances are you already switched once, so doing it again isn’t this impossible thing.

“So he wants to run a human only character driven, low magic, gritty, post roman Britain campaign. Where the players are the upcoming movers and shakers amongst the kingdoms of Logres.”
So I’m guessing the Jutes are the Goliaths? Who are the Halflings, the Brigantes or the Cornovii?
Jesus Wept. If you’re going to construct a monstrosity like this, at least do it in AD&D like God intended.

Still, Horus’ wounds are 100% self-inflicted. You’re choosing to sit and suffer in silence when you should be cowboying up, sitting those fuckers down and running them in the most badass Dark Fantasy Mythras game you can muster. If they want to play D&D instead, just tell them you’re out, and get some new players. Seriously.

They can’t play another game ONCE for you, so why should you flush another 6 months of your life down the drain playing a game you don’t like. That sounds more like an abusive relationship than a gaming group.

Your friend’s problem is simple, he’s afraid. To GM as an adult, you need to know what the hell you’re doing, and it sounds like he doesn’t want to GM a new system. When you’re a kid, it’s different. D&D, Traveller, Star Frontiers, Gamma World, Boot Hill, Top Secret...a new type of setting, a new game, fuck it, let’s learn it. When you’re an adult, you care more about looking like an idiot.

So the only way you’re ever going to get your friend to run a new system is to get him familiar with it as a player. The only way that’s going to happen is for you to remember thy spine and run some fucking Mythras/Pendragon whatever.
 
CRKrueger said:
People start using the term sealioning when talking about something other than pinnipeds, I will hire a streetwalker to kick you in the nuts in front of your SO while at church, or a family event.
Click to expand...

Streetwalker (Unarmed, Chain, Handbag)
Unarmed Prowess - Permits the user to treat his Unarmed blocks and parries as ‘Medium’ sized, enabling him to better defend himself from armed opponents.
Jewel Thief - User is permitted to shift the location of any hit to a leg or the chest to the abdomen. Any unarmed attack to the abdomen using this style gains the Drop Foe special effect.
 
So er, Mythras, I recently ran the recent supplement-adventure "Waterlands" for a newbie group on Roll20 and had a good time. For people wanting to try out the system and the Mythic Britain setting it's much less of a time commitment than the full campaign path in the Mythic Britain supplement, but there's enough detail in the adventure to extend it into a local campaign. The region is pretty interesting in itself, the adventure has region-specific encounter and event tables with its own local mythology which are a central part of the adventure and extended campaign. The further adventures are detailed briefly but the main adventure sets everything up very well with a supernatural mystery and local political wrangling the adventurers can get caught up in.

JBrkV1F.jpg
 
second video from Inwils for those of you looking to learn more
 
It's a term used extensively at one of Those Other Sites where the standard process is to assume that anyone arguing from a position other than the orthodoxy is doing so in bad faith.

For the sake of polite discourse, self-respect and overall mental equilibrium, I'd suggest that we drop it from our vocabulary.
 
Guys we're dancing the line a few points in this thread. Try to keep the discussion away from anything political, including things with "social" in the title.
 
Waterlands is excellent, I’m not from the fens so I can’t talk to it’s historical accuracy but it’s a cracking add on to Mythic Britain.
 
HorusArisen said:
I did try to highlight I’m venting pregame. I don’t want to disturb the thread further though....

I’ll post a more expansive and reasoned thread on D&D and my experience, opinions again. I will point out my bias is my bias I’m not arguing for agreement .
Click to expand...

Yeah, sorry for the derail everyone. I'll take you up on that thread, though, but only if you're willing to delve (heh) further into the subject matter.

CRKrueger said:
Gus, I love you bro, but you’re overreacting.
Click to expand...

Shit, if a crotchety old grog like CRKrueger CRKrueger is saying that I an probably way out of line. :clown:

CRKrueger said:
True, Horus is in a bad place right now, if I was the Emperor I’d be worried.
Click to expand...

dGX08hO_d.jpg


CRKrueger said:
Still, on AL night I can go into the FLGS, and I will find more than a few of the “typical D&D players” he’s talking about.
Click to expand...

So we're really talking about "typical AL players" — I still dislike the generalization, BTW. But then I do have the nagging suspicion that AL games is some sort of gaming Skid Row where people go when they've been expelled from all other groups.

CRKrueger said:
Trying to shoehorn everything under the sun into D&D despite there being systems purpose-built for what you want is a thing. People do that more with D&D than any other system for two reasons.
1. It’s the most popular system.
2. If you’re not playing D&D, chances are you already switched once, so doing it again isn’t this impossible thing.

“So he wants to run a human only character driven, low magic, gritty, post roman Britain campaign. Where the players are the upcoming movers and shakers amongst the kingdoms of Logres.”
So I’m guessing the Jutes are the Goliaths? Who are the Halflings, the Brigantes or the Cornovii?
Jesus Wept. If you’re going to construct a monstrosity like this, at least do it in AD&D like God intended.
Click to expand...

D&D5 is fairly flexible, but AD&D does boast the excellent TSR AD&D2 HR series.

CRKrueger said:
Still, Horus’ wounds are 100% self-inflicted. You’re choosing to sit and suffer in silence when you should be cowboying up, sitting those fuckers down and running them in the most badass Dark Fantasy Mythras game you can muster. If they want to play D&D instead, just tell them you’re out, and get some new players. Seriously.

They can’t play another game ONCE for you, so why should you flush another 6 months of your life down the drain playing a game you don’t like. That sounds more like an abusive relationship than a gaming group.
Click to expand...

Yeah, this. If your players won't even try Mythras, you deserve better players.

CRKrueger said:
So the only way you’re ever going to get your friend to run a new system is to get him familiar with it as a player. The only way that’s going to happen is for you to remember thy spine and run some fucking Mythras/Pendragon whatever.
Click to expand...

tenor.gif
 
You know, I've almost entirely sworn off buying physical RPG books anymore, but I'm almost certainly going to have to buy a hard-copy of Mythras in the next month or two. Thanks a lot, you enabling bastards! :grin:
 
TheophilusCarter said:
You know, I've almost entirely sworn off buying physical RPG books anymore, but I'm almost certainly going to have to buy a hard-copy of Mythras in the next month or two. Thanks a lot, you enabling bastards! :grin:
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wow, I don't even have a physical copy! I too have sworn mostly off physical books (though I make exceptions for a couple).

but make sure to get one of the new revision. i'm having a hard time finding any errors at this point (it's functionally gone through quite a lot of editing between legend, RQ6, mythras v1.0,v1.1 and now v1.2).
 
Raleel said:
wow, I don't even have a physical copy! I too have sworn mostly off physical books (though I make exceptions for a couple).

but make sure to get one of the new revision. i'm having a hard time finding any errors at this point (it's functionally gone through quite a lot of editing between legend, RQ6, mythras v1.0,v1.1 and now v1.2).
Click to expand...
Definitely. I'm a bit obsessive about typos and such ... It looks like the POD version on DTRPG is the third printing, so it should be pretty clean.
I'm wondering about a nice hard-copy of Mythras Imperative through Lulu too. I do like me a nice concise saddle-stitched rule book ...
 
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This is just my first impression of Mythras after my first run through. The combat chapter has got to be the best one I've ever seen in any RPG. I really like how the combat styles work. I can see why a lot of folks have been raving about this game for so long. I have to really sink my teeth into it because I don't absorb crunch as fast as I used to, but this could become one of my five favorite games.
 
Endless Flight said:
This is just my first impression of Mythras after my first run through. The combat chapter has got to be the best one I've ever seen in any RPG. I really like how the combat styles work. I can see why a lot of folks have been raving about this game for so long. I have to really sink my teeth into it because I don't absorb crunch as fast as I used to, but this could become one of my five favorite games.
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I am glad you like it :smile:

I might suggest checking out the Games Mastery section in the back. I don't normally tell experienced folks to read those, but this one is excellent.
 
Raleel said:
I am glad you like it :smile:

I might suggest checking out the Games Mastery section in the back. I don't normally tell experienced folks to read those, but this one is excellent.
Click to expand...

Yes I was reading that. There’s some good stuff in there. I am currently looking through the bestiary chapter to see what’s included. It’s fairly large with a good selection.

I like a lot of the art in the book too. Good variety.
 
I'm definitely digging what I'm seeing here so far. It reminds me of the things I liked about Rolemaster BackInTheDay(TM), but without the things I'm not as crazy about TheseDays, such as classes, levels, and tons o' tables ...
 
I picked up a load of Mythras in a Bundle, mainly for the setting material as it is a touch too crunchy for me but it is very well laid out and explained.
 
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