Mod+ OGL 1.1 is not an Open License.

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burbles

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Given Hasbro/WotC (re)interpretation of the open game license, why does anyone actually expect them to release the feedback information in any form that does not support their position?
 

TJS

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The purpose of the corporate survey is to gather data.

How you use that data depends on how useful it is for the position you want to take.
 

TJS

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Look people have rubbished on this guy because he seems to have misunderstood what a disgruntled source told him about the surveys and also because Hasbro have denied a bunch of other stuff (and we believe them for some reason?) but a lot of what he says he's been told here is interesting and makes sense.,

Anyway take it with a grain of salt and make of it what you will. This isn't the TBP, I trust no one here is going to be permanently damaged by watching something that might turn out to be wrong.

 

raniE

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Given Hasbro/WotC (re)interpretation of the open game license, why does anyone actually expect them to release the feedback information in any form that does not support their position?
Because they want to be able to point at growth in their quarterly and annual reports. Hasbro doesn’t have some strange source of income, it’s people like us making purchases. If we decide not to buy what they’re selling, there is no money. So if all they get from the feedback surveys and later social media checks and D&D Beyond subscription counts is “people are pissed, they’re not buying our shit, they’re leaving our subscription service and they’re getting those streamers who do advertising for us to move to other games instead”, then they’re either going to have to rethink things or likely be out of a job.
 

James Gillen

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Look people have rubbished on this guy because he seems to have misunderstood what a disgruntled source told him about the surveys and also because Hasbro have denied a bunch of other stuff (and we believe them for some reason?) but a lot of what he says he's been told here is interesting and makes sense.,

Anyway take it with a grain of salt and make of it what you will. This isn't the TBP, I trust no one here is going to be permanently damaged by watching something that might turn out to be wrong.

He does say that for verification purposes any of these sources and anybody else in position to talk in the future should go straight to Linda Codega, and her reporting has so far checked out.

JG
 

robertsconley

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I used CHAT GPT to take the youtube transcript of the D&D Short video and reformat it with proper periods and paragraph breaks for those who don't want to sit through a 18 minute video or have trouble hearing as I do.
 

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AsenRG

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Yes, they want to grow the brand, but they're damaging it and they don't understand the backlash other than that it is bigger than they anticipated and via the leaks we know they think we're blowing it out of proportion. So they are trying to ride out the storm. Just like some tried to do with other scandals in the last 5 years. Sometimes it works.

They don't understand we take notes and memorize thick blocks of text. We will remember.

As do I.
Also, those of us who don't do that? We take notes and study historical information, books upon books of it...and then we ask for clarifications in the form of more books...:grin:
*Looks at Exalted folder on HDD, needs to re-download some files...*
Anyway, just because I wanted to point out that if we forget, it's because we wanted it, or we're old. And sometimes the latter's not enough, because we forget what caused the grudge before we forget who it is we had grudge with:shade:!

April 1st


We were just joking, wasn't that a great set up we had you guys going for 3 months har har.
"Given that you said that on April 1st, we still don't believe you".

No, see, I might be. But it's the danger, and knowing the mods won't protect me from it, that makes the Pub so exciting! :gunslinger:

The Pub where the mods operating principle is "meh, it's your funeral". :tongue:
"Let the dice fall where they may!"

I used CHAT GPT to take the youtube transcript of the D&D Short video and reformat it with proper periods and paragraph breaks for those who don't want to sit through a 18 minute video or have trouble hearing as I do.
Thank you!
 

Malckuss

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I hope not. WotC showed their true colors and the real motivations behind their future offerings.

I'm sure Critical Role and MCDM will sellout and continue being 5e shills which WotC hopes will get most of the sheep to fall in line.line.
I thought MCDM was one of the groups who announced their own system and is supporting the ORC?
No, see, I might be. But it's the danger, and knowing the mods won't protect me from it, that makes the Pub so exciting! :gunslinger:
You know, because I'm an adult. I can make up my own mind about complex matters.
 

Rich H

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Professor DM's video above really calls out the continued bullshit of WotC in a very clear and unambiguous way. Really liked watching it.

Nothing has changed, they are still full of themselves and aren't interested in anyone else.

And...

1674502632996.png
 
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robertsconley

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Professor DM's video above really calls out the continued bullshit of WotC in a very clear and unambiguous way. Really liked watching it.

Nothing has changed, they are still full of themselves and aren't interested in anyone else.
Nice image, my wife laughed when see saw it.

A side point, I suspect that even though the furor is dying down, it is replaced by a silent determination of "Never Again!"

I pointed out to a friend that this is Wizard's third strike. "Three?" he asked

  • Wizards suddenly announced 3.5 causing all demand for 3.0 products to evaporate
  • Trying to get people to revoke their use of the OGL 1.0a when they accepted the GSL for 4e.
  • Now trying to impose OGL 1.1/1.2 on the hobby and industry, wrecking everybody publishing plans industry-wide.
 

TJS

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Critical Role probably have a non-disparagement clause in their existing contract.

They would have been insane to sign some kind of contract giving WotC royalties. (WotC should be paying them).
 

raniE

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But they want to have another source of income: payments from 3rd party producers! and VTTs! and all the things! Don't forget those very lucrative NFTs!
All those in the end depend on people making luxury purchases. It's not like they're a food company who own so many different brands that its impossible to remember them all, and even if you could you wouldn't be able to a lot of the time. Nor are they selling gasoline or electricity, or a military contractor who deals only with the government. They're a producer of luxury items. They need customers, and the customers can dump them from their lives without much problem, if any.
 

TJS

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All those in the end depend on people making luxury purchases. It's not like they're a food company who own so many different brands that its impossible to remember them all, and even if you could you wouldn't be able to a lot of the time. Nor are they selling gasoline or electricity, or a military contractor who deals only with the government. They're a producer of luxury items. They need customers, and the customers can dump them from their lives without much problem, if any.
Not just that they need customers who don't really need them, it's an inherently social activity. They need customers to be ambassadors for them.

For a while (years ago now) I was running an open D&D 5e game at a meetup as a favour to help meet the demand from new players wanting to try the game. I certainly won't be doing that again. There's a good chance I might do that for the new Kobold Press game instead to boost their competitors.
 

Brock Savage

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Not sure I’d compare supporters of WotC to those of the Manson family but I also don’t think they are shill accounts. Go to EN World and read the threads and posts about how we should compromise with WotC :sick:
He wasn't comparing them; it just means that one can easily can find rando people on the Internet who will voice their support for anything no matter how stupid and it doesn't mean a thing.
 

raniE

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Not just that they need customers who don't really need them, it's an inherently social activity. They need customers to be ambassadors for them.

For a while (years ago now) I was running an open D&D 5e game at a meetup as a favour to help meet the demand from new players wanting to try the game. I certainly won't be doing that again. There's a good chance I might do that for the new Kobold Press game instead to boost their competitors.
Yeah I was going to run a con game of 5e at GothCon this year, with several other GMs to handle all the groups we anticipated signing up. That went out the window as soon as the leak happened. RPGs just aren't computer games.
 

EmperorNorton

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Critical Role probably have a non-disparagement clause in their existing contract.

They would have been insane to sign some kind of contract giving WotC royalties. (WotC should be paying them).
All I know is that I know they probably can't say anything publicly, but if I was them I'd be saying some pretty... uh not friendly... things to my contact at WotC.

Cause you know, when you work together with a company and then they pop some bullshit like this it is the biggest pain in the ass. It's happened to me with my work (and I'm customer facing, as I do community management/marketing), and nothing is more of a headache than dealing with fallout from a decision that you have no control over.
 

chuckdee

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Critical Role probably have a non-disparagement clause in their existing contract.

They would have been insane to sign some kind of contract giving WotC royalties. (WotC should be paying them).
I've seen things that people are insane to sign, and they just don't know. That's one thing behind all of these OSR isn't necessary anyway videos...
 

Toadmaster

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I don't watch live role playing stuff much, in fact all I've seen was because my wife was watching. Anyway establishing that I'm only vaguely familiar with channels like Critical Role, I'm curious, does anybody think their numbers would be diminished in the least if they switched to another system? Their YT channel has nearly 2 million subscribers, and from what I've seen system plays a pretty minor part so I just don't see that many regular viewers going, Oh, now you are using "not D&D" I'm out.

I gather most people are watching the performance, not taking rules advice. I doubt a lot of the casual gamers who watch would even notice a switch to one of the similar games. I'd think they could pretty easily get away with "like D&D" in the description to keep the algorithm interested.
 

Baulderstone

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I don't watch live role playing stuff much, in fact all I've seen was because my wife was watching. Anyway establishing that I'm only vaguely familiar with channels like Critical Role, I'm curious, does anybody think their numbers would be diminished in the least if they switched to another system? Their YT channel has nearly 2 million subscribers, and from what I've seen system plays a pretty minor part so I just don't see that many regular viewers going, Oh, now you are using "not D&D" I'm out.

I gather most people are watching the performance, not taking rules advice. I doubt a lot of the casual gamers who watch would even notice a switch to one of the similar games. I'd think they could pretty easily get away with "like D&D" in the description to keep the algorithm interested.
When my nephews first asked to play D&D, I gave them DCC and they didn't know any better.
 

Mankcam

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I don't watch live role playing stuff much, in fact all I've seen was because my wife was watching. Anyway establishing that I'm only vaguely familiar with channels like Critical Role, I'm curious, does anybody think their numbers would be diminished in the least if they switched to another system? Their YT channel has nearly 2 million subscribers, and from what I've seen system plays a pretty minor part so I just don't see that many regular viewers going, Oh, now you are using "not D&D" I'm out.

I gather most people are watching the performance, not taking rules advice. I doubt a lot of the casual gamers who watch would even notice a switch to one of the similar games. I'd think they could pretty easily get away with "like D&D" in the description to keep the algorithm interested.
I think D&D is more brand recognition than anything else when it comes to Critical Role. D&D 5E is also reasonably straight forward enough to be background canvas for them, letting them perform for the audience.

I think it terms of viewship they wouldn't lose too many numbers if they were not WotC-centric, and are likely to gain some viewers

A good setting with reasonably simple or straight forward mechanics is all they need, as they can rift their perfirmance antics off that

However I'm almost sure that they may already be in some contracts with WotC before all this OGL situation blew up

It would be good if it was otherwise, as Critical Role and shows like it (Geek & Sundry etc) are pivotal to how this hobby grows.

I quite like D&D, but there are many more trpgs out there that Critical Role could also be running. They do so from time to time, but D&D is really their bread and butter.

It will be interesting to see what they do, but I suspect WotC already has them locked in.
 
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raniE

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I don't watch live role playing stuff much, in fact all I've seen was because my wife was watching. Anyway establishing that I'm only vaguely familiar with channels like Critical Role, I'm curious, does anybody think their numbers would be diminished in the least if they switched to another system? Their YT channel has nearly 2 million subscribers, and from what I've seen system plays a pretty minor part so I just don't see that many regular viewers going, Oh, now you are using "not D&D" I'm out.

I gather most people are watching the performance, not taking rules advice. I doubt a lot of the casual gamers who watch would even notice a switch to one of the similar games. I'd think they could pretty easily get away with "like D&D" in the description to keep the algorithm interested.
The big ones? Absolutely not? Some of the smaller ones? Maybe a bit if they were the only ones to do it, but not if all, or just some, of the major ones switched too. Again, Hasbro has fundamentally misjudged the situation I think.
 
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