OSE, and my strange feelings towards it

[Lord Dynel]

First off, let me say that I do like Old School Essentials. Very much.

That said, every time I'm considering running an OSR adventure/mini-campaign, I always seem to lean towards a different direction. Labyrinth Lord, Swords & Wizardry, AS&SH, Castles & Crusades (okay...whether or not it's actually an OSR game is a different discussion ) seem to win out. Even original systems such as BECMI and B/X are considered harder. And that last one is a real head scratcher, since they're basically one and the same.

I was reading the Rules Tome last night before turning in for the evening, and the one thing that I considered is that maybe it's a bit too sanitized. A bit too organized. I don't know. I mean, LL and S&W are well organized, too. But OSE is very tight and organized. I know that is a boon to many, and it should be for me, too. I do like organization in rulesets. But I feel like there's something missing. Some character, maybe? It probably shouldn't matter to me because they're just rules, and whether or not they prose has character won't matter when I'm running a game. But reading the rules, and getting excited for the ruleset and running a game with the system, is a bit lacking. And I'm not sure why. But this is my theory.

Anyone feel this way? Not necessarily about OSE, but about any system? Or am I nuts?

 

[sharps54]

I much prefer B/X to OSE, the art appeals to me more and I think it is a better place to start for new DMs as B/X has great examples of play. I’m also a nostalgic old curmudgeon so take that into account.

 

[Brock Savage]

I think the bland and generic nature of B/X and OSE is a feature, not a flaw. Even though I love B/X I am not really interested in playing B/X "out of the box" so to speak. It does, however, provide a strong and solid base for one to fine tune it into something more evocative and thematic.

 

[Simlasa]

I've yet to try to read OSE, vs. just looking stuff up.
What makes for an entertaining read can sit at odds with what works for a quick reference during play... and trying to read the straight-to-the-point reference can be tiresome.
Usually, when I'm learning rules... I'll keep notes as I go... creating my own QRS, in my own words. So I guess I favor a bit of 'flair' to the writing, even if it's not as efficient.

 

[Nick J]

If I were ever going to run a B/X game I'd want the originals for the flavor and to teach people (if they had never played an RPG) but the OSE books would be the first thing I'd reach for, for reference; they are a masterpiece in terms of organization and clarity. Oddly enough, this stands in sharp contrast to the Wormskin zines put out by the same author, which are nothing but a pure joy to read, and a total nightmare to reference (the nature of a setting revealed piecemeal over several years in zine format I'd wager).

 

[Cross Planes]

First off, let me say that I do like Old School Essentials. Very much.

That said, every time I'm considering running an OSR adventure/mini-campaign, I always seem to lean towards a different direction. Labyrinth Lord, Swords & Wizardry, AS&SH, Castles & Crusades (okay...whether or not it's actually an OSR game is a different discussion ) seem to win out. Even original systems such as BECMI and B/X are considered harder. And that last one is a real head scratcher, since they're basically one and the same.

I was reading the Rules Tome last night before turning in for the evening, and the one thing that I considered is that maybe it's a bit too sanitized. A bit too organized. I don't know. I mean, LL and S&W are well organized, too. But OSE is very tight and organized. I know that is a boon to many, and it should be for me, too. I do like organization in rulesets. But I feel like there's something missing. Some character, maybe? It probably shouldn't matter to me because they're just rules, and whether or not they prose has character won't matter when I'm running a game. But reading the rules, and getting excited for the ruleset and running a game with the system, is a bit lacking. And I'm not sure why. But this is my theory.

Anyone feel this way? Not necessarily about OSE, but about any system? Or am I nuts?

I'm 100% in the same boat. In fact, I'll look at Labyrinth Lord before OSE. I think the problem, for me, are all the damn versions of the books. Classic vs Advanced, Players vs Rules Tome, etc. It gives me a headache. I do know that it is actually pretty easy to suss out but that is more work than I want to put in when I can just grab LL, Hyperborea, or Worlds Without Number and go.

 

[Vargold]

There's nothing to suss out. For the original Moldvay/Cook experience, just the Classic Rules Tome will suffice. For a combination of B/X and AD&D, get the Advanced Rules Tome. Every other variation of the rules can be ignored.

 

[Lord Dynel]

Yeah, it’s a little confusing to me, too, Cross Planes. I’m not quite sure why the decision was made to go with so many formats/versions of what’s basically the same rules. I have the Rules Tome, and the Advanced Genre Rules, plus the Advanced books for Monsters, Treasure, and Druid/Illusionist Spells. I wouldn’t mind an Advanced Rules Tome to put all those Advanced books in one volume.

Nick J makes a good point, and one I definitely should consider, using OSE in-game as a quick reference to rules when needed.

 

[Baulderstone]

I think the bland and generic nature of B/X and OSE is a feature, not a flaw. Even though I love B/X I am not really interested in playing B/X "out of the box" so to speak. It does, however, provide a strong and solid base for one to fine tune it into something more evocative and thematic.

Yes. Given that it is compatible with so many OSE rulesets, deciding to use OSE gives you a central frame, and you can then steal the parts you want from other games.

It's definitely a bland read. I have the original B/X books, and I think they are a better introduction to the game, but OSE clearly wins when it comes to table reference. It's not like B/X is an organizational nightmare though. I still reach for it a lot, but since I have had it for 40 years, its sometimes quicker for me to find something there.

I've yet to try to read OSE, vs. just looking stuff up.

That's a good point. As I already knew the system, it is hard for me to judge how good a job it does of introducing it.

What makes for an entertaining read can sit at odds with what works for a quick reference during play... and trying to read the straight-to-the-point reference can be tiresome.
Usually, when I'm learning rules... I'll keep notes as I go... creating my own QRS, in my own words. So I guess I favor a bit of 'flair' to the writing, even if it's not as efficient.

I've gotten in the habit of writing up my own versions of rule sets. Even if I am not putting in any notable house rules, I find it useful. It forces me to engage with the rules in a way that just reading them doesn't.

I failed to finish doing this before the last Warhammer game I ran, and I regretted it. I've been setting up a new rules reference for it while Edgewise is taking his turn GMing, and I am feeling much more prepared for the next chapter.

If I were ever going to run a B/X game I'd want the originals for the flavor and to teach people (if they had never played an RPG) but the OSE books would be the first thing I'd reach for, for reference; they are a masterpiece in terms of organization and clarity. Oddly enough, this stands in sharp contrast to the Wormskin zines put out by the same author, which are nothing but a pure joy to read, and a total nightmare to reference (the nature of a setting revealed piecemeal over several years in zine format I'd wager).

The new Wormskin books are doing a good job keeping the flavor while having more intuitive layout. Given that the OSE books were only written as mechanical support for Wormskin, It will be interesting to see if people's feelings about OSE flavor change once those books are out.

I wouldn’t mind an Advanced Rules Tome to put all those Advanced books in one volume.

See this sentence here? THIS is how we get so many versions. Necrotic Gnome is going to have this on Kickstarter within a week.

 

[Grelan]

There isn't one Advanced Fantasy Rules Tome, but there is an Advanced Fantasy Referee's Tome and an Advanced Fantasy Player's Tome.

Core Rules

Old-School Essentials comes in Classic Fantasy and Advanced Fantasy flavours. Advanced Fantasy = Classic Fantasy + extra classes, optional rules, spells, monsters, and magic items. For those who prefer box sets of slim books for sharing around the table, Old-School Essentials is also available...

necroticgnome.com

Honestly, while I like the OSE rules, I'm not a fan of the multi-book approach. I know it's an homage to the LBB, but it's still annoying. I much prefer the single rules tome. I'm glad they've provided both, even if Advanced Fantasy is broken into two.

 

[AsenRG]

I'm 100% in the same boat. In fact, I'll look at Labyrinth Lord before OSE. I think the problem, for me, are all the damn versions of the books. Classic vs Advanced, Players vs Rules Tome, etc. It gives me a headache.

I think you should give it to the creators of those games, they have managed to recreate the TSR-era situation...

 

[Torque2100]

I absolutely adore the OSE rules. Compared to most other RPG manuals on the market today, OSE is one of the best organized and laid out. I like having both the multi-book approach as well as the single Player's Tome and Referee Tome for player reference.

OSE Advanced Fantasy gets my vote simply because it manages to retrofit back in a lot of the options from AD&D while keeping the DnD Basic feel.

 

[Spellslinging Sellsword]

So I had bought the OSE bundle on Bundle of Holding, but just skimmed it. Gearing up to run a 1E AD&D campaign and then thought let's just order the advanced OSE hardback as it will let me do most of what 1E does but with a better presentation. So I'm reading the pdfs until the books arrive. So far I find the writing more enjoyable than Gygax's.

 

[AsenRG]

So far I find the writing more enjoyable than Gygax's.

Heresy!

 

[Brock Savage]

So I had bought the OSE bundle on Bundle of Holding, but just skimmed it. Gearing up to run a 1E AD&D campaign and then thought let's just order the advanced OSE hardback as it will let me do most of what 1E does but with a better presentation. So I'm reading the pdfs until the books arrive. So far I find the writing more enjoyable than Gygax's.

Dude, I have been considering doing exactly the same thing. I'm setting up for an AD&D retroclone open table project and debating whether to go with OSE Advanced or Into the Unknown, a stripped-to-the-basics version of 5e. This is one of those situations where you have two equally good options, like choosing between a vampy bohemian gf or a Velma with a big sexy brain.

 

[Lord Dynel]

I absolutely adore the OSE rules. Compared to most other RPG manuals on the market today, OSE is one of the best organized and laid out. I like having both the multi-book approach as well as the single Player's Tome and Referee Tome for player reference.

OSE Advanced Fantasy gets my vote simply because it manages to retrofit back in a lot of the options from AD&D while keeping the DnD Basic feel.

I totally agree with the organization and lay out. It's top notch. I would certainly use it for quick-reference rules at the game table during a BX game.

I guess, for me, it comes down to OSE isn't the book I'm going to sit in my cozy chair and warm up to.
It's a fantastic rules set, though!

 

[Cross Planes]

Yeah, it’s a little confusing to me, too, Cross Planes. I’m not quite sure why the decision was made to go with so many formats/versions of what’s basically the same rules. I have the Rules Tome, and the Advanced Genre Rules, plus the Advanced books for Monsters, Treasure, and Druid/Illusionist Spells. I wouldn’t mind an Advanced Rules Tome to put all those Advanced books in one volume.

Nick J makes a good point, and one I definitely should consider, using OSE in-game as a quick reference to rules when needed.

Yeah, I don't know. I used to talk to Gavin a bit when I did BX Ascending but that's been like 3 years ago. Even with the explanations in the product descriptions I still end up with decision paralysis.

 

[Baulderstone]

I think the four-book version was Gavin's vision, but people kept asking for the Tomes and were willing to pay for them on Kickstarter, so you got this proliferation of options. I agree it can be confusing.

 

[The Butcher]

Anyone feel this way? Not necessarily about OSE, but about any system? Or am I nuts?

Never even looked at OSE because I already own and enjoy more OSR systems than I can easily decide which one to run each time; but I totally sympathize with style as a factor in game choice.

LL is highly streamlined but oozes flavor.

For a B/X or BECMI/RC game I’d be torn between LL and ACKS.

For an AD&D game the toss-up would be between LL with the Advanced Edition Companion, and Castles & Crusades (with some houseruling re: SIEGE Engine).

Outside the D&D-sphere, Openquest or Magic World are probably much better suited to my GMing style, but I want in on that sweet, sweet Mythras completeness.

I've gotten in the habit of writing up my own versions of rule sets. Even if I am not putting in any notable house rules, I find it useful. It forces me to engage with the rules in a way that just reading them doesn't.

I failed to finish doing this before the last Warhammer game I ran, and I regretted it. I've been setting up a new rules reference for it while Edgewise is taking his turn GMing, and I am feeling much more prepared for the next chapter.

That’s the ticket right there, but I can only wish I had the time!

WFRP and Call of Cthulhu would be the first two I’d like to try my hand at, with TSR/OSR D&D a close third.