OSR Spelljammer

[Fenris-77]

It hadn't even occurred to me to run this, but having had the idea I want to, eventually. I'm taking recommendations for rules sets, as I don't really own anything appropriate other than Into the Odd. I'd to get a couple of treatments in hand so I can piece together a bespoke rules set at some point.

So, whats the best way to run Spelljammer as an OSR game? You can assume that I don't want to just run it as-is btw. I'd prefer something closer to Black Hack as an output.

 

[CRKrueger]

If you want Black Hack as an output, you shouldn’t have asked for OSR rulesets.

I think a Sine Nomine frappe would be a good way to go. SWN as a base, adding D&D stuff to taste.

 

[Fenris-77]

Huh, yeah, Sine Nomine would be cool. I should be more specific. What I actually want to produce is something I portmanteau as Planejammer, not simply Spelljammer. A forgotten tech, flying ships, Mythos flavoured admixture of Planescape and Spelljammer. Into the Odd is going to provide some of the pieces, but it's not the whole project by itself by a longshot.

 

[Simon Hogwood]

Dark Dungeons X is a BECMI (I think) retroclone that, unlike most clones that only cover B/X, includes rules that touch on both of those. It really gives more attention to the Immortals rules, but it would at least be something to work from.

 

[CRKrueger]

Huh, yeah, Sine Nomine would be cool. I should be more specific. What I actually want to produce is something I portmanteau as Planejammer, not simply Spelljammer. A forgotten tech, flying ships, Mythos flavoured admixture of Planescape and Spelljammer. Into the Odd is going to provide some of the pieces, but it's not the whole project by itself by a longshot.

Crawford has Godbound and Silent Legions. That might help with powerful Planars and Mythos stuff respectively.

 

[Fenris-77]

Crawford has Godbound and Silent Legions. That might help with powerful Planars and Mythos stuff respectively.

Cool. What I wanted to start a campaign is something on the outskirts of the crystal planes. A little dirt nothing jammer port in the middle of nowhere with a couple ofnllaces to go. That way the table can build the worls as we play.

So I need rules for ancient tech, rules for ships and ship combat, but not a huge amount of settung detail. Play to find out, baby.

 

[Gringnr]

Dark Dungeons X is a BECMI (I think) retroclone that, unlike most clones that only cover B/X, includes rules that touch on both of those. It really gives more attention to the Immortals rules, but it would at least be something to work from.

Blacky the Blackball should get an honorary ENnie

 

[Stevethulhu]

Dark Dungeons X is a BECMI (I think) retroclone that, unlike most clones that only cover B/X, includes rules that touch on both of those. It really gives more attention to the Immortals rules, but it would at least be something to work from.

The original Dark Dungeons is a Rules Cyclopedia retroclone. And for my money, it's better than the original. Complete with Spelljamming and 36 level demihumans.

 

[Fenris-77]

I'd also welcom recommendations for any modules that have that whiff of SciFi to them. Barrier Peaks for example, or the Monolith Beyond Time and Space. I don't know that I'd need to fully flesh out a whole Jammer Realm, just move form fantasy to Jamming and have a sand bow to start playing in.

I'll check out Dark Dungeons for sure.

 

[Stevethulhu]

I'd also welcom recommendations for any modules that have that whiff of SciFi to them. Barrier Peaks for example, or the Monolith Beyond Time and Space. I don't know that I'd need to fully flesh out a whole Jammer Realm, just move form fantasy to Jamming and have a sand bow to start playing in.

I'll check out Dark Dungeons for sure.

There was a free 3.5 adventure on the old WotC site that took you to a Mind Flayer Nautilus in deep space.

 

[Gringnr]

The original Dark Dungeons is a Rules Cyclopedia retroclone. And for my money, it's better than the original. Complete with Spelljamming and 36 level demihumans.

I've read that Dark Dungeons doesn't have some of the SJ-specific races, not sure if that's a big deal.

 

[Stevethulhu]

I've read that Dark Dungeons doesn't have some of the SJ-specific races, not sure if that's a big deal.

It's not. The book is a clone the Rules Cyclopedia, so anything BECMI, BX or Holmes will drop right in. And AD&D will slot in with the usual amount of fettling.

 

[Gringnr]

It's not. The book is a clone the Rules Cyclopedia, so anything BECMI, BX or Holmes will drop right in. And AD&D will slot in with the usual amount of fettling.

I have never heard the word "fettling" before, but I like it...

 

[Fenris-77]

Having looked over the Spelljammer navigation rules, I must say, I'm not a huge fan (betrayed by my memory sadly). A couple of things I think I'd change. One, I think it would be more fun run connections between spheres as nexus points, something like the one from the Expanse perhaps, a fact which would also tie nicely into Sigil, City of Doors. Two, I think I'd rather have a propulsion system other than a mage's spell slots. First, not all OSR rules sets use traditional spell slots anyway, and second, not every party needs to have a Wizard (who's useless when flying other than flying). I might prefer to use an arcane propulsion system macguffin, call it Aether Crystals or whatever. Crystals have ratings, and ship systems have ratings as well, so a small crystal wouldn't be able to power all the systems on a bigger ship. This gives the whole idea a build in adventure hook - crystal acquisition and repair. There's another built in hook if the navigation is puzzle-like and build on, say, combinations of runes on some sort of arcane Navigation Orrery.

A tip of the cap to Jim Butcher for the Aether Crystal idea.

 

[Fenris-77]

One of the reasons that nexus points appeals to me is that it seems ripe as can be for some random tables.

 

[Fenris-77]

My thought there was a succession of galactic builders, each with a very different look, and possibly different gate mechanisms. I'm picturing millennia of stellar war, so the nexus points are in various stages of disrepair and suffering from various kinds of effects and whatnot. Then you add in the possibility of other ships and whose territory this is and think there's lots of lovely detail.

 

[Simon Hogwood]

If you like portals, I would definitely suggest you check out a little booklet on the topic called Kefitzat Haderech - Incunabulum of the Uncanny Gates and Portals - despite the unwieldy name it's a really fun spin on the topic.

I'd also welcom recommendations for any modules that have that whiff of SciFi to them. Barrier Peaks for example, or the Monolith Beyond Time and Space. I don't know that I'd need to fully flesh out a whole Jammer Realm, just move form fantasy to Jamming and have a sand bow to start playing in.

One of my favorite DCC modules, #79 Frozen in Time, has the characters stumble on the lair of an infamous alien time-criminal. And it happens to be in the $1 section of the current DCC Humble Bundle, too!

 

[Fenris-77]

Those both sound like great suggestions. Thanks!

 

[Voros]

If you like portals, I would definitely suggest you check out a little booklet on the topic called Kefitzat Haderech - Incunabulum of the Uncanny Gates and Portals - despite the unwieldy name it's a really fun spin on the topic.
One of my favorite DCC modules, #79 Frozen in Time, has the characters stumble on the lair of an infamous alien time-criminal. And it happens to be in the $1 section of the current DCC Humble Bundle, too!

Frozen in Time is a great little module.

Other good Spelljammerish modules include: Masters of Eternal Night; Dawn of the Overmind; Tale of the Comet; City of the Gods.

For me the best supplement for Starjammer was Rock of Bral but I'm a sucker for a city supplement as I love that style of play. I also liked a lot of the ideas in Practical Planetology.

 

[Fenris-77]

Practical planetology I have, and it is good.

 

[Fenris-77]

So I started on a first draft of some ideas for elder races and flavors of gate. i'm going to drop it here, unedited, just to see what people think. After the descriptive bits, which are here in broad strokes, the rest would be a moderately extensive series of nested tables to generate Portals and Nexus Points. I haven't decided yet how to work in actual dungeon elements. Anyway, here's the draft...

Nexus Points and Aether Gates

The many gates and portals constructed in the multiverse to allow passage from plane to plane were build by a succession of builder races, and then added on to by Mages, Seers, and Engineers of every imaginable race. A hardy explorer can never be sure what lies beyond the next gate. It could be a wonder, a horror, or the long dead relics of a race gone from the planes for untold millennia. What they have in common is that they were all built to allow the passage of space-faring craft from place to place, by means of enormous gates, without the need to sail the deeps of the void.

The sages of many worlds have been studying the Nexus Points, as they call them, for generations. The Elder Races built Nexus Points, vast chambers and other constructs with portals to places scattered across the spheres, including the Nexus Points of other races. How this was accomplished is a mystery. No Archmage in thousands of years has succeeded in creating a new gate, never mind an entire Nexus Point. Most Nexus Points are what would more properly be called Demi-Planes, mostly fragments of the Ethereal Plane somehow split off and hung, jewel like, across the depths of the void. At least, that is the best guess of the Sages.

One benefit of the formation of Nexus Points from the Ethereal Plane is that Aether is breathable by most sentient races, so within the constructs, one generally need not worry about shielding a craft from poisonous atmosphere.

There are two features shared by all portals and Nexus Points. One, the runes that identify a given portal, assumedly by its destination, are roughly the same in every instance. Two, those portals are opened and closed by means of a device called a Aethric Orrery. These devices commonly look like complex models formed of interconnected rings, each ring limned with lines of runes. The Orrerys function something like keys in that when they are aligned properly within a short distance of a gate, they cause the gate to either open or close. However, explorers must beware, not every Orrery contains all the runes necessary to open every gate. Some Orrerys are far simpler than others and while they open common gates, or the gates of specific builders, they do not open every gate. There are rumours of Master Orrerys that do contain enough runes to open every gate, but an example has never been seen by a reliable commentator.

The Elder Races

No one knows the names of these races, nor their heroes or gods. They are usually referred to by the character of their Nexus Points. Through careful study, we have some knowledge of which came before the other, but that is all.

The Seraphim

First, and oldest, are the Seraphim, so called because their constructs are built of iridescent marble and characterized by soaring columns and vaulted ceilings. There is evidence that these may at one time have been graced by verdant gardens and graceful pools and fountains, but those are a memory. Now, the constructs of the Seraphim are mostly ruined, their columns shattered, and their vaults laid bare to the grey of the Aether. Many of the Seraphim constructs are infested by a queer luminescent green fungus that houses spores poisonous to most races. The constructs of the Seraphim uniformly bear the scars of terrible conflict, waged with weapons beyond the ken of men today.

The Jotuns

Nest oldest, and far more common, are the constructs of the Jotuns, names for the Giants of myth and legend. These are enormous constructs built of grey stone and on a huge scale, set with thick pillars and platforms of tightly fit stone, hard as iron. Constructs of the Jotun are usually laid out on a single plane, with vast hallways and corridors linking rooms of Gates. The air in these constructs is frigid, and they all bear evidence of destruction wrought by great fire. The walls are blackened and soot covered, and the vast floors of the constructs are concealed by dunes of ash, deep enough to consume a ship. These dunes are peppered with fragments of ancient ships, twisted and meted by unimaginable fire.

The halls of the Jotuns are lined by immense statues of creatures that look somewhat like men, but with a feral and martial aspect. The scale of these statues is hard to judge, as fragments of hand weapons of gigantic proportions have been reported found in several constructs.

The Arthropoi

Somewhat contemporaneous, or at least overlapping the Jotuns, are the Arthropoi. These constructs are organic in nature, spun or excreted from chitin and web, obviously by some sort of insectoid race. The constructs of the Arthropoi can be perilous, as they have numerous narrow and branching corridors, barely wide enough for a ship in some cases, and many have sheets of sticky web, stronger than steel, strung from wall to wall, almost as bridges. It is speculated that the fleets of the Arthropoi consisted of large creatures rather than ships, creatures flexible enough to navigate these corridors without issue.

The construction materials of the Arthropoi constructs is dark purple or green in colour, and most still retain a dim luminescence, a stark contrast to the dead black of the Jotun constructs. There is a strong acidic stench that lingers in the Arthropoi constructs, and some reports of illness and death have been recorded, although these are rare. The constructs are also riddled with much smaller winding corridors and tunnels, the use of which escapes us, as their orientation suggest use by creatures that were either capable of flight or fantastic climbing.

The Deep Ones

The constructs of the Deep Ones are rare, thankfully, as they are disturbing in the extreme. They are formed of semi-translucent crystal, and the geometry of their construction is wrong, somehow. The angles are wrong, and all sense of direction seems to disappear after an hour or two spent in their confines. There is a dim light in these constructs, usually a sickly yellow-green, that seems to emanate somehow from beyond the crystal walls. Explorers report that paranoia and madness are common afflictions for crew who spend extensive time in Deep One constructs, and there are numerous reports of half-seen movement, seemingly behind the crystal walls, that is only ever glimpsed for a moment. There are no floors to these constructs, only sluggishly flowing rivers of deep black liquid that seem to flow from nowhere to nowhere. The constructs of the Deep Ones smell pervasively of salt water and the sea, although the liquid within them is certainly no salt water, as it is instantly fatal to most sophonts. The primary decoration of these constructs are immense altars and plazas, generally buried beneath an unimaginable carpet of bone, and centered on altars of unspeakable depravity.

That's it so far. I plan to add a ton of descriptive flavor in the random tables, so this write-up is deliberately sketchy on details.

 

[Simon Hogwood]

The many gates and portals constructed in the multiverse to allow passage from plane to plane were build by a succession of builder races, and then added on to by Mages, Seers, and Engineers of every imaginable race. A hardy explorer can never be sure what lies beyond the next gate. It could be a wonder, a horror, or the long dead relics of a race gone from the planes for untold millennia. What they have in common is that they were all built to allow the passage of space-faring craft from place to place, by means of enormous gates, without the need to sail the deeps of the void.

The lack of Stargate-style humanoid-scale gates is a little disappointing, but does give the setting a unique flavor and, perhaps, a bit more focus (all adventurers would either have their own ships, or desire access to them). It's a little ambiguous, perhaps by design, whether these gates lead from planet to planet, dimension to dimension, or both. "Planes" usually denotes somewhere you can't get to just with physical travel through space, but the here the gates are depicted as almost a shortcut.

The sages of many worlds have been studying the Nexus Points, as they call them, for generations. The Elder Races built Nexus Points, vast chambers and other constructs with portals to places scattered across the spheres, including the Nexus Points of other races. How this was accomplished is a mystery. No Archmage in thousands of years has succeeded in creating a new gate, never mind an entire Nexus Point. Most Nexus Points are what would more properly be called Demi-Planes, mostly fragments of the Ethereal Plane somehow split off and hung, jewel like, across the depths of the void. At least, that is the best guess of the Sages.

Perhaps the tables will clear this up, but how do these look visually? I'm picturing the gates as huge rings just kind of floating in space, and the nexus points, once you're in them, as self-contained buildings that you never see the outside of. From your description, there might not be an outside.

There are two features shared by all portals and Nexus Points. One, the runes that identify a given portal, assumedly by its destination, are roughly the same in every instance. Two, those portals are opened and closed by means of a device called a Aethric Orrery. These devices commonly look like complex models formed of interconnected rings, each ring limned with lines of runes. The Orrerys function something like keys in that when they are aligned properly within a short distance of a gate, they cause the gate to either open or close. However, explorers must beware, not every Orrery contains all the runes necessary to open every gate. Some Orrerys are far simpler than others and while they open common gates, or the gates of specific builders, they do not open every gate. There are rumours of Master Orrerys that do contain enough runes to open every gate, but an example has never been seen by a reliable commentator.

Alright, this is good stuff. I feel like the Orrerys could furnish a number of plot hooks by themselves - maybe if they are modifiable, to an extent, new rings could be choice bits of treasure. If not, then maybe whole Orrerys are. Either way, searching for the right runes to open a particular gate could come up in a number of contexts. I can also see the potential for an antagonist whose shtick is that he's an Orrery collector (and not one who's choosy about how he acquires new ones, either), and his ship either is festooned with Orrerys all working in tandem or else houses the incomplete Master Orrery that is his grand obsession.

The Elder Races

No one knows the names of these races, nor their heroes or gods. They are usually referred to by the character of their Nexus Points. Through careful study, we have some knowledge of which came before the other, but that is all.

I think the Deep Ones need a different name, but I'm having trouble thinking of an alternative to offer that's on the same level as the others. Dagonites?

 

[Fenris-77]

The lack of Stargate-style humanoid-scale gates is a little disappointing, but does give the setting a unique flavor and, perhaps, a bit more focus (all adventurers would either have their own ships, or desire access to them). It's a little ambiguous, perhaps by design, whether these gates lead from planet to planet, dimension to dimension, or both. "Planes" usually denotes somewhere you can't get to just with physical travel through space, but the here the gates are depicted as almost a shortcut.

There will definitely be human scale gates at some point, I just haven't decided to to manage that bit yet. This started off as OSR Spelljammer, so I started with ship sized gates. I think I will probably fold some humanoid scale gates into the existing nexus points, and maybe do up some separate stuff for small gates outside constructs. I was deliberately vague on destinations, for a couple of reasons. One, I haven't decided what I would personally want in that regard, and I'd also like to keep the whole deal somewhat system neutral. I do know that I wanted demi-planes as destinations for how I would want to run this, and that did inform the first draft. I left the original notion of void travel open to help this layer on top of existing SJ travel.

The notion of demi-planes as destinations is specifically in aide of my current predilection for one-page dungeon type adventure locales. It would allow me to do pretty much any kind of cool adventure location with no need to tie it to a world or anything else.

Perhaps the tables will clear this up, but how do these look visually? I'm picturing the gates as huge rings just kind of floating in space, and the nexus points, once you're in them, as self-contained buildings that you never see the outside of. From your description, there might not be an outside.

Yeah, no outside, not unless constructed to have one I guess. Each race is going to have a different look. I'm picturing the Seraphim constructs as more open and airy, and more vertical, possibly even a a series of floating islands, IDK. The Jotun ones are the most traditionally building like, constructed on a horizontal plane with corridors connecting rooms. The Arthropoi will be organic and hive like, with a mix of horizontal and vertical and a general lack of straight lines. Really though, a nexus point could look like anything, and I'd like to do some random tables to help sketch other, weirder or one-off locations. The image I started with was the gate sphere from the Expanse but I realized pretty quickly I wanted something more like rooms and areas rather than just a single open expanse.

The tables are for adding specific architectural detail, state of disrepair, hazards, and various other features. I'd ideally like to do separate tables for each Elder race.

The broad strokes of the table cascade is to establish race, then size, then number of other gates, the functionality of those gates, and then some specific detail to individualize the nexus point and perhaps add some hazards. The size of the nexus point determines how many rolls you'd make on the detail tables.

Alright, this is good stuff. I feel like the Orrerys could furnish a number of plot hooks by themselves - maybe if they are modifiable, to an extent, new rings could be choice bits of treasure. If not, then maybe whole Orrerys are. Either way, searching for the right runes to open a particular gate could come up in a number of contexts. I can also see the potential for an antagonist whose shtick is that he's an Orrery collector (and not one who's choosy about how he acquires new ones, either), and his ship either is festooned with Orrerys all working in tandem or else houses the incomplete Master Orrery that is his grand obsession.

I had many of the exact same thoughts. Get out of my head.

I think the Deep Ones need a different name, but I'm having trouble thinking of an alternative to offer that's on the same level as the others. Dagonites?

Oh I agree. I just couldn't think of a less derivative name. Dagonites is pretty good. All the names are placeholders at this point really. I didn't want to hung up on details in the first pass.

 

[Giganotosaurus]

Oh I agree. I just couldn't think of a less derivative name. Dagonites is pretty good. All the names are placeholders at this point really. I didn't want to hung up on details in the first pass.

What about Diluvian's? Like Antediluvian.

 

[Fenris-77]

I may end up completely ignoring any notion of scientific space. The visual palette I have in my head looks way more like the movie Dragon Hunters than anything more traditionally sci-fi. I really like the idea of playing with war torn vistas where a world is broken and just kind of floating apart. My focus will start on the gates and next the ships though. At a certain point people could make the destinations anything they wanted, and I'd rather leave space for that than limit the usefulness of what I'm doing. Not that I plan of selling this, but I'll make it publicly available once it's usefully complete.

 

[Fenris-77]

What about Diluvian's? Like Antediluvian.

My first thought when I read that was Lemon and Diluvians. I won't be able to get past that chip dip reference. It's heading in the right direction though.

 

[Giganotosaurus]

What is Lemons and Diluvians? Is it a canadian thing?

 

[Fenris-77]

Lemon and Dill.

 

[Fenris-77]

So I think I need one more piece of bespoke technology. I'm going to posit that some, if not many, gates are invisible to the naked eye. However, when viewed through specially enchanted glass (a Planar Monocle?), they become visible. This explains why every bloody place in the D&D universe supposedly has huge bloody gates hanging about that people haven't bothered to explore or even notice.