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Go price a saiboat.

I stopped worrying about $200 for a model locomotive.

Yeah spending anytime at all around people with actually expensive hobbies helps a lot. I got thousands probably 10's of thousands sunk into my various hobbies over my lifetime. There are hobbies where that gets spent in a weekend.

You want to talk expensive hobbies, talk to the guys who collect ex-wives. :shock:
 
Currently Ive a very nice Glenlivet 18 year reserve from Xmas I'm trying to make last. Normally Glenfiddich is my brand of choice, though
I've not tried Talisker
My last trip to Scotland I visited the Talisker distillery.
Gah, at least the model locomotive might appreciate in value over time. Good luck reselling yer boat.

And get prepared for weekends spent cleaning algae. And revarnishing the surfaces. And spending hours online looking for somewhere in the world to order that one engine part that needs replacing.

Boats suck.
Screw you!:tongue: I love my boats! But I agree stay the F away from wood. My dad skippers a 96' yawl and man that's an exercise in futility.

You can make money on boats but it's not common. I like inexpensive out of favor boats. I've had good luck at repo places.
 
The only issue that I've seen is when posters have a strong dislike for a particular game or type of roleplaying and they interject themselves into a thread about that game or type of roleplaying to argue why it's horrible. I'd like some way to curb that from happening, whether it's through the use of a thread prefix, topic banning users, warning them, moving their comments to a new thread, or something. It's just annoying to see a thread about X and go into it and find someone pissing all over X and telling everyone that Y is what everyone should do.
 
The only issue that I've seen is when posters have a strong dislike for a particular game or type of roleplaying and they interject themselves into a thread about that game or type of roleplaying to argue why it's horrible. I'd like some way to curb that from happening, whether it's through the use of a thread prefix, topic banning users, warning them, moving their comments to a new thread, or something. It's just annoying to see a thread about X and go into it and find someone pissing all over X and telling everyone that Y is what everyone should do.
This happens in every single thread about Fate Core, with much smug condescension and ire.
 
This happens in every single thread about Fate Core, with much smug condescension and ire.


To be fair, this is equally happening in every thread about sandbox games or immersive playstyles.

This IS something I'm going to be keeping a stricter eye on as a mod going forward.

If you (not you specifically Necrozius, this is addressed in general to The Pub, the posters that have problems with this know who they are) don't like a style of gaming, don't click on threads specifically about that playstyle looking for a post to be offended about because it doesn't bend over backwards to tell you every other playstyle is OK. This is definitely not restricted to any one group here, and I think a lot of really stupid fights can be prevented if we nip this in the bud from the start.
 
To be fair, this is equally happening in every thread about sandbox games or immersive playstyles.

This IS something I'm going to be keeping a stricter eye on as a mod going forward.

If you (not you specifically Necrozius, this is addressed in general to The Pub, the posters that have problems with this know who they are) don't like a style of gaming, don't click on threads specifically about that playstyle looking for a post to be offended about because it doesn't bend over backwards to tell you every other playstyle is OK. This is definitely not restricted to any one group here, and I think a lot of really stupid fights can be prevented if we nip this in the bud from the start.
That sounds like a really good plan going forward. It's really frustrating thinking "oh, someone's started a discussion of X" and it's become a "why X doesn't cut the mustard". IF you read through the thread and based on the responses the OP is making they REALLY are looking for something different THEN maybe respond. Or better, start your own thread...
 
To be fair, this is equally happening in every thread about sandbox games or immersive playstyles.

This IS something I'm going to be keeping a stricter eye on as a mod going forward.

If you (not you specifically Necrozius, this is addressed in general to The Pub, the posters that have problems with this know who they are) don't like a style of gaming, don't click on threads specifically about that playstyle looking for a post to be offended about because it doesn't bend over backwards to tell you every other playstyle is OK. This is definitely not restricted to any one group here, and I think a lot of really stupid fights can be prevented if we nip this in the bud from the start.

I just wish more posts about a certain playstyle wouldn't go out of their way to mock other playstyles, which also happens. I like sandbox games. I shouldn't have to avoid all topics on sandbox games because some users can't help themselves from mocking anything that isn't sandbox.

Like there are cases of both. It's fine to say that some people are just looking to get offended, but its also the case that there are people who look down on any style of game not to their liking and make no attempts to hide it.
 
I just wish more posts about a certain playstyle wouldn't go out of their way to mock other playstyles, which also happens. I like sandbox games. I shouldn't have to avoid all topics on sandbox games because some users can't help themselves from mocking anything that isn't sandbox.

Like there are cases of both. It's fine to say that some people are just looking to get offended, but its also the case that there are people who look down on any style of game not to their liking and make no attempts to hide it.

Sure, but to a certain extent this is beyond what we will moderate - it goes back to us not being fact-checkers. I think any attempt by mods to be arbiters of "The Truth" is a slippery slope to an ideologue-driven forum. People are allowed to have badwrong opinions. For the most part, no one needs to worry about these opinions being "infectious". Most posters have encountered , and summarily dismissed, these opinions before.
 
To be fair, this is equally happening in every thread about sandbox games or immersive playstyles.

This IS something I'm going to be keeping a stricter eye on as a mod going forward.

If you (not you specifically Necrozius, this is addressed in general to The Pub, the posters that have problems with this know who they are) don't like a style of gaming, don't click on threads specifically about that playstyle looking for a post to be offended about because it doesn't bend over backwards to tell you every other playstyle is OK. This is definitely not restricted to any one group here, and I think a lot of really stupid fights can be prevented if we nip this in the bud from the start.
I'd say another thing to consider is whether your complaint is fresh. If you just tried a PbtA game last weekend, and it fell flat, it might be actually be helpful to go to the PbtA thread and talk about your session. If you ran a PbtA game that fell flat five years ago, and you have shown up in every PbtA thread since than over multiple forums to complain about it, you are probably just being a pain in the ass.

It also helps to ask if your complaint is actually an attempt to find a solution or just tiresome bellyaching. This thread is a good example of someone who thinks they see a place where sandboxes don't work, but it's asking how to make them work. Rather than an argument, it is producing a lot of positive discussion.

Like there are cases of both. It's fine to say that some people are just looking to get offended, but its also the case that there are people who look down on any style of game not to their liking and make no attempts to hide it.
There is something to this. I have a wide range of friends that I game with, and while there is common ground, there are also many differences of opinion about games. Somehow, the people I know in real life manage to have different tastes in games and express them without insulting one another.

When I watch a lot of gamers online, I am reminded of teenagers whose self-identities haven't fully formed yet and use things like musical taste as a crutch. They use their musical taste to decide who they can be friends with and who to belittle.
 
It also helps to ask if your complaint is actually an attempt to find a solution or just tiresome bellyaching. This thread is a good example of someone who thinks they see a place where sandboxes don't work, but it's asking how to make them work. Rather than an argument, it is producing a lot of positive discussion.
I don't think that's an example of what we're talking about. In that thread, the OP is asking a serious question, and folks are responding with ideas. No one has come in and crapped on the thread with "Why do you want to do a sandbox? They're stupid."
 
I don't think that's an example of what we're talking about. In that thread, the OP is asking a serious question, and folks are responding with ideas. No one has come in and crapped on the thread with "Why do you want to do a sandbox? They're stupid."
I was presenting that as an example of a case of someone having a perceived problem with sandbox and making it constructive, not as as example of the kind of problem you have been talking about.
 
I like boating enough I bought a house with a dock so I could just run down the hill to jump on the boat. Then I had kids. Nothing cramps you're boating style like a pregnant wife and a toddler or under. Fortunately mine are finally getting old enough to enjoy boating!
 
This thread is way too long for me to read through ATM but I would like to say, if you sanction someone short of banning them, possibly even if you do ban them, do it politely. The rpgnet imperious tone (“Take a day off and do not post in this thread again”) is counterproductive in my opinion.

How exactly to issue sanctions in a friendly manner? I don’t know if I can describe it, but I’ve seen it done.
 
The only issue that I've seen is when posters have a strong dislike for a particular game or type of roleplaying and they interject themselves into a thread about that game or type of roleplaying to argue why it's horrible. I'd like some way to curb that from happening, whether it's through the use of a thread prefix, topic banning users, warning them, moving their comments to a new thread, or something. It's just annoying to see a thread about X and go into it and find someone pissing all over X and telling everyone that Y is what everyone should do.

As long as it's applied fairly and uniformly. I could name a forum or two where thread crapping on a D&D thread will get you banned but people wander into GURPS and Rolemaster threads and crap with full immunity. Not that I've ever crapped in a D&D thread, oh no not me, that would never happen. ;)
 
After much deliberation TristramEvans TristramEvans Baulderstone Baulderstone and I decided that we will moderate in the vein of Vice Princial Richard Vernon from The Breakfast Club.

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This thread is way too long for me to read through ATM but I would like to say, if you sanction someone short of banning them, possibly even if you do ban them, do it politely. The rpgnet imperious tone (“Take a day off and do not post in this thread again”) is counterproductive in my opinion.

How exactly to issue sanctions in a friendly manner? I don’t know if I can describe it, but I’ve seen it done.
It's a tough thing to balance, because you need to be polite, and yet firm enough that someone won't come back with "oh, but I thought it was just a suggestion...". Personally I think they should be even more blunt and not use moderation as a grandstand for their comic ability or make the bannee into an Acceptable Target, but people didn't like when they did it before.
 
My last trip to Scotland I visited the Talisker distillery.

Screw you!:tongue: I love my boats! But I agree stay the F away from wood. My dad skippers a 96' yawl and man that's an exercise in futility.

You can make money on boats but it's not common. I like inexpensive out of favor boats. I've had good luck at repo places.
You can't make money on boats, yet everyone waits for their ship to come in...
 
You can't make money on boats, yet everyone waits for their ship to come in...
My brother in law does pretty much non stop. I swear in the decade I've known him he's had 15 boats and made money on all but one. Guys just always on the hunt for a boat at a good price. Uses it for a summer maybe half a summer and sells it. He's one of those very charming lucky fellows.
 
My brother in law does pretty much non stop. I swear in the decade I've known him he's had 15 boats and made money on all but one. Guys just always on the hunt for a boat at a good price. Uses it for a summer maybe half a summer and sells it. He's one of those very charming lucky fellows.
So you could say that he sails through life?
 
It's a tough thing to balance, because you need to be polite, and yet firm enough that someone won't come back with "oh, but I thought it was just a suggestion...". Personally I think they should be even more blunt and not use moderation as a grandstand for their comic ability or make the bannee into an Acceptable Target, but people didn't like when they did it before.

I agree, actually. I am all for snarking, as previously stated, but I'd rather the mods didn't join in when acting in a capacity as mods. In particular, maybe less of the sarcastic titles for spun-off threads? It kind of feels mean-spirited.
 
Was "This Old Argument" really sarcastic? Seemed on the nose to me.
 
Was "This Old Argument" really sarcastic? Seemed on the nose to me.
It's kinda dismissive, yeah. Yes it's a tired subject that inevitably devolves into circles eventually but unless it's an instant knives-out topic, it's a thing that people want to discuss at the moment. I totally like the idea of splitting it into a separate thread, I think that was the right move, just not the titling.

And the context of me saying "it's a tired subject" in a random post is different to the context of you saying it in a post, because you're an authority figure here, and it's different again to the context of a mod taking an official action and renaming a thread. Each one carries increasing levels of weight.
 
It's kinda dismissive, yeah.

It definitely was intended to be dismissive, deliberately so, primarily as a warning to new readers, secondly to deflate the situation. I don't see that as sarcastic, though.


it's a tired subject that inevitably devolves into circles eventually but unless it's an instant knives-out topic,

Oh, it was, most definitely. All the actual good conversation came after the thread was split off, before that it...well..anyone can go reread before that point.

And the context of me saying "it's a tired subject" in a random post is different to the context of you saying it in a post, because you're an authority figure here, and it's different again to the context of a mod taking an offiical action and renaming a thread. Each one carries increasing levels of weight.

I can see your point on the second, I don't agree with the first. The majority of my posts here are as a regular poster, and my opinions carry no more weight than anyone else. The only thing I have any authority in regards to is my actions as moderator. My taste in games, playstyles, media, food, etc are of no consequence to anyone else and there is no authority behind them. No one is obliged to agree with me in any way, and my posts are just as open to criticism, friendly ribbing, and argument as anyone else's opinion.
 
It definitely was intended to be dismissive, deliberately so, primarily as a warning to new readers, secondly to deflate the situation. I don't see that as sarcastic, though.

Oh, it was, most definitely. All the actual good conversation came after the thread was split off, before that it...well..anyone can go reread before that point.

I can see your point on the second, I don't agree with the first. The majority of my posts here are as a regular poster, and my opinions carry no more weight than anyone else. The only thing I have any authority in regards to is my actions as moderator. My taste in games, playstyles, media, food, etc are of no consequence to anyone else and there is no authority behind them. No one is obliged to agree with me in any way, and my posts are just as open to criticism, friendly ribbing, and argument as anyone else's opinion.
It qualifies a sarcastic remark by your own description of it here, but the issue was that you had an involvement in the conflict when you chose to moderate it. The vast majority of your posts, however, are fine and most conflicts are dealt with well on this site.
 
We frequently moderate threads we participate in, usually because we're the first to see any issues.

I'm not convinced that represents bias. If there was a situation where I was arguing with one poster, and then chose to specifically moderate them based on that argument, I could see that ruffling feathers. In that case though, I simply moved the venue of the conversation. No individual participant was targetted by intention.

I understand you (Trippy) were upset that it seemed the new thread was attributed to you though you did not start it, but in that case it was just a matter of taking the first post from where the digression began. In the future, I would instead do a preliminary/ preface post before the transfer, something I was unable to insert after the fact.

I would consider asking another mod to step in if I was involved in an argument, but I think the majority of the time, where moderation amounts to not much more than a warning to steer away from politics or chill out if a fight is getting too personal, it's a bit unecessary.
 
We frequently moderate threads we participate in, usually because we're the first to see any issues.

I'm not convinced that represents bias. If there was a situation where I was arguing with one poster, and then chose to specifically moderate them based on that argument, I could see that ruffling feathers. In that case though, I simply moved the venue of the conversation. No individual participant was targetted by intention.

I understand you (Trippy) were upset that it seemed the new thread was attributed to you though you did not start it, but in that case it was just a matter of taking the first post from where the digression began. In the future, I would instead do a preliminary/ preface post before the transfer, something I was unable to insert after the fact.
I think we can move on, in any case. To be honest, there were a lot of other things happening with me at the time.
 
I'm not convinced that represents bias. If there was a situation where I was arguing with one poster, and then chose to specifically moderate them based on that argument, I could see that ruffling feathers. In that case though, I simply moved the venue of the conversation. No individual participant was targetted by intention.
Like I said, I think splitting the thread was the right call. But the titling was on the road to setting an Official Fact for the pub. And I know it's potentially a nitpicky minor point, but hey, that's kinda what this thread is for; and the fact that we can actually have this conversation and it hasn't devolved into ranting says something good about you guys.

I understand you (Trippy) were upset that it seemed the new thread was attributed to you though you did not start it, but in that case it was just a matter of taking the first post from where the digression began. In the future, I would instead do a preliminary/ preface post before the transfer, something I was unable to insert after the fact.
I like that as a mechanism. Doesn't need to be big, just something like We've moved this tangent from that other thread to better enable discussion or the like.
 
I can see your point on the second, I don't agree with the first. The majority of my posts here are as a regular poster, and my opinions carry no more weight than anyone else. The only thing I have any authority in regards to is my actions as moderator. My taste in games, playstyles, media, food, etc are of no consequence to anyone else and there is no authority behind them. No one is obliged to agree with me in any way, and my posts are just as open to criticism, friendly ribbing, and argument as anyone else's opinion.

Yes, but that's just the thing. Naming the spun-off threads is a mod-specific thing to do.

Let me put it this way. If you say to me, in a post within a thread, "Baeraad, you are a smelly poopiehead," then I can just make a post of my own saying, "nay! It is, in point of fact, you who are the smelly poopiehead!" And then we'd be on even ground. But if you took all my posts from the thread and moved them out to a new thread and titled that thread "That smelly poopiehead Baeraad's posts," then I would have no equal counter to that.

I agree that the mods here are very good about being humble and egalitarian and just generally making it clear that it's fine to argue with them same as with anyone else. Therefore, most of the time, I fully support their right to roll their eyes at things they think are stupid, same as the rest of us. But in the rare instances when they are actually speaking from a position of authority, I would prefer a more studiously neutral tone from them.
 
But in the rare instances when they are actually speaking from a position of authority, I would prefer a more studiously neutral tone from them.


I actually proposed the idea of anonymous modbot alternate identities for the mods, to distinguish when we were posting as moderators, maintaining a matter-of-fact tone, but I believe the consensus was that it would come off as cold and authoritarian.
 
It's a pub. People getting a bit too drunk or heated arguments are to be expected.

If you start a fight or get nasty drunk and harass other patrons after getting warned, you're sent home till you can prove you can hold your drink.
 
To the current conversation of mods moderating their own arguments...

I just want to remind people that one forum that professes to indulge in free speech had its mod eject 2 or 3 people in one week for disagreeing with him and that another routinely posts in black text and then when people argue with the black text come up with "dont argue with mods!!!!" In red text.

Egads, this place is a haven of moderation in comparison. Ive never seen any mods here not be anything but fair.
Ive had 2 posts that line danced the no politics rule and it was resolved with a friendly PM and an edit by me.

Kudos

Basically, mistakes will happen but look at the whole. :smile:
 
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