Palladium Christmas Grab Bags 2017

Ulairi

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I think I’m one of the only few Palladium Books fans on the forum but did anybody else order any Chrsitmas Grab Bags? I’ve ordered 5. One for each member of my group and one for me! They are always a great group Christmas present.

For those of you unfamiliar it’s basically a way to double your return on your dollar spent. For $45 you’ll receive around $90-$100 of product. I’m trying to complete my Rifts collection.

Anybody else order one?
 

Endless Flight

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Do you get top tier books in these grab bags or do you get stuff that they want to get out of back of their warehouse? I’ve seen places do these with other things like comic books and I’m usually wary of buying them for that reason.
 

Ulairi

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Do you get top tier books in these grab bags or do you get stuff that they want to get out of back of their warehouse? I’ve seen places do these with other things like comic books and I’m usually wary of buying them for that reason.

Last year I got a brand new book that released that month (the latest dead reign sourcebook) AND a collectors edition of Palladium Fantasy 2E. So that right there was like $70 of MSRP. This year on YouTube I’ve seen some unboxing videos and folks are getting brand new books and older. You’re supposed to give a list of 10 to 15 books and Kevin will pick titles from that list. Usually they throw in things like art, book markers, on top.

If it was just old stuff to thin out the warehouse I wouldn’t be so high on them. It I think Palladium sells through their entire catalog pretty evergreen
 

Ronin

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From what I understand you give them a tiered list of want, and they do their best to fulfil that. Plus a couple more goodies thrown in. I.E. signed artwork and stuff like that. Ulairi can correct me if I'm wrong.
 

The Butcher

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I’ve always wanted to but TBH I’m not that much into Palladium right now.

I’d ask for Ninjas & Superspies and maybe some Heroes Unlimited stuff.
 

Ronin

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I've never gotten one either. I pretty much have all the Palladium stuff that I would care for now. That adn some other issues that I'm not going to go into, and derail the thread. That being said I would definitely play/run a Pally game again.
 

Ulairi

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From what I understand you give them a tiered list of want, and they do their best to fulfil that. Plus a couple more goodies thrown in. I.E. signed artwork and stuff like that. Ulairi can correct me if I'm wrong.

Yup. I think it’s a great value. I have a friend that plays Savage Rifts and is getting one for Rifts setting material.
 

Bunch

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I like palladium. Granted I've only ever play the newsprint Mechanoids series and one session of heroes unlimited. I love the art and ideas. I always here it's a shit show of rules though.
 

The Butcher

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Yup. I think it’s a great value. I have a friend that plays Savage Rifts and is getting one for Rifts setting material.
This is another consideration. When/if I run Savage Rifts (or even if I get back into classic, Palladium Rifts), I’m keeping it old school — no Tolkeen War, no Free Quebec secession, CS Dead Boys in classic armor (Kevin Long designs), etc.

So I’m not really particularly tempted to pick up new Rifts setting material.

I like palladium. Granted I've only ever play the newsprint Mechanoids series and one session of heroes unlimited. I love the art and ideas. I always here it's a shit show of rules though.
I think the rules are not even particularly bad per se — I like the combat system — just horribly written and laid out, and thick with the cruft of decades of contradictory rulings spread across dozens of books.

Unfortunately, it’s been abundantly apparent for years now that Kevin runs a vanity operation with no room for an editor. If I was buying Palladium the only thing I’d change is having a professional editor and a layout guy process his drafts into decent-looking books.
 

Ulairi

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The Megaversal rules are great. It’s no more complicated than AD&D. Like the Butcher, I also really like the combat system. I also like the skill system.

The biggest issue isn’t that the rules are poorly written. I actually think Kevin is the best writer in the business. The books are easy to read and the tone of the prose is conversational which I enjoy. The layout of the books is great for readability. I like two column layouts and I enjoy the black and white art.

The organization of the books is the sore spot. They need a revision around organizing them to be easier to get players in and characters made. Character creation can go quickly if it’s organized but the books aren’t great on organization.

Palladium is a vanity company insofar as its Kevin’s company. I like that it’s almost 40 years of one guy being independent and doing it his way. Kevin was Indy before it was cool.
 

Bunch

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Yeah I like the idea of palladium. For a long time I hated that he wouldn't accept that he needed help from others and his dickish nature towards IP in general. Now adays I'm just impressed he's still going. He's just constantly soldiered on through good times and bad and stayed afloat when his peer companies fell left and right.
Maybe what it says is this as an industry is best suited for individual sized companies vs large structures.
 

Ronin

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Palladium is a vanity company insofar as its Kevin’s company. I like that it’s almost 40 years of one guy being independent and doing it his way. Kevin was Indy before it was cool.
That just it, it hasn't been just a one man show. Or rightly stated, it hasn't had to be. Kevin is the "King" of micromanagers. Nothing is good enough, mostly because he hasn't thought of it. He rewrites peoples submissions to the point of unrecognizability. Or take credit wholesale regardless. Because of Palladium's draconian non-disclosure policies it has writers sign, they have no recourse, not ever being able to bitch in the least bit. Or suffer a lawsuit. Lets not forget all the broken promises, otherwise known as money grabs. Look at Pallys site right now. Both Tomb of the Grotesque, and Beyond Arcanum are both up for preorder. Both of these book have been promised for over ten years. Reread that and think for a minute, Over Ten Years. Warpath (a spiritual successor to Recon using the Megaversal system) has been written for just as long. It will never see to light of day. Even if it did it wouldn't matter. As Combat, urban, and police technology has made leaps since then. Or look at Dead Reign which is a bog standard zombie game. Too bad Kevin rewrote it. Because the original was a more demonic focused zombie game not unlike certain Italian horror films. As opposed to yet another romero clone.
Now all of that being said. Do I like the system? Damn right I do. I can see how people might think it a bit clunky. Truly it's just an AD&D variant/heartbreaker. Which I'm totally down with. (OSR before OSR was remotely a thing) But I also agree that the biggest problem is layout and organization.
Heros Unlimited, Ninjas and Superspies, TMNT, and After the Bomb are classics that I would not hesitate to play or run in a moment. I cannot tell you to untold hours of joy and friendship that these games have provided, or provided the backdrop to. But I am not interested anything that's come out from them in a while. Plus my disdain for Kevin's business practices have not helped. But to separate Kevin from the business, he is a good guy, super creative, and a bang up great GM. I'm saying that having met him and interacted with him in person.
 

Bunch

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Wa
That just it, it hasn't been just a one man show. Or rightly stated, it hasn't had to be. Kevin is the "King" of micromanagers. Nothing is good enough, mostly because he hasn't thought of it. He rewrites peoples submissions to the point of unrecognizability. Or take credit wholesale regardless. Because of Palladium's draconian non-disclosure policies it has writers sign, they have no recourse, not ever being able to bitch in the least bit. Or suffer a lawsuit. Lets not forget all the broken promises, otherwise known as money grabs. Look at Pallys site right now. Both Tomb of the Grotesque, and Beyond Arcanum are both up for preorder. Both of these book have been promised for over ten years. Reread that and think for a minute, Over Ten Years. Warpath (a spiritual successor to Recon using the Megaversal system) has been written for just as long. It will never see to light of day. Even if it did it wouldn't matter. As Combat, urban, and police technology has made leaps since then. Or look at Dead Reign which is a bog standard zombie game. Too bad Kevin rewrote it. Because the original was a more demonic focused zombie game not unlike certain Italian horror films. As opposed to yet another romero clone.
Now all of that being said. Do I like the system? Damn right I do. I can see how people might think it a bit clunky. Truly it's just an AD&D variant/heartbreaker. Which I'm totally down with. (OSR before OSR was remotely a thing) But I also agree that the biggest problem is layout and organization.
Heros Unlimited, Ninjas and Superspies, TMNT, and After the Bomb are classics that I would not hesitate to play or run in a moment. I cannot tell you to untold hours of joy and friendship that these games have provided, or provided the backdrop to. But I am not interested anything that's come out from them in a while. Plus my disdain for Kevin's business practices have not helped. But to separate Kevin from the business, he is a good guy, super creative, and a bang up great GM. I'm saying that having met him and interacted with him in person.
Wait you mean people are complicated? Dammit dammit dammit! I thought we were supposed to judge everyone up against some perfect ideal and pillory them for an deviation from the ideal.
His business practices are the main reason I've avoided buying anything new from Palladium. Fortunately you can find a boatload of used stuff cheap.
 

Ronin

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See I personally wouldn't go that far. But nothing from him interests me that's came out in a bit.
 

Ronin

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Sorta, then he (Kevin) ran a sob story and sucked up moneys for no return. Not to say he wasn't wronged. But he milked it for every bit of its worth.
 

Bunch

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The Crisis of Treachery I believe it was called. Drew enough attention that I learned about it without looking for anything palladium.
 

Black Leaf

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The Crisis of Treachery I believe it was called. Drew enough attention that I learned about it without looking for anything palladium.
It was when he came out with "The Crisis of Treachery" stuff I realised both what I like and hate about Kevin.

He thinks he's a character in his very own golden age comic and filters absolutely everything through that worldview.
 

Ulairi

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That just it, it hasn't been just a one man show. Or rightly stated, it hasn't had to be. Kevin is the "King" of micromanagers. Nothing is good enough, mostly because he hasn't thought of it. He rewrites peoples submissions to the point of unrecognizability. Or take credit wholesale regardless. Because of Palladium's draconian non-disclosure policies it has writers sign, they have no recourse, not ever being able to bitch in the least bit. Or suffer a lawsuit. Lets not forget all the broken promises, otherwise known as money grabs. Look at Pallys site right now. Both Tomb of the Grotesque, and Beyond Arcanum are both up for preorder. Both of these book have been promised for over ten years. Reread that and think for a minute, Over Ten Years. Warpath (a spiritual successor to Recon using the Megaversal system) has been written for just as long. It will never see to light of day. Even if it did it wouldn't matter. As Combat, urban, and police technology has made leaps since then. Or look at Dead Reign which is a bog standard zombie game. Too bad Kevin rewrote it. Because the original was a more demonic focused zombie game not unlike certain Italian horror films. As opposed to yet another romero clone.
Now all of that being said. Do I like the system? Damn right I do. I can see how people might think it a bit clunky. Truly it's just an AD&D variant/heartbreaker. Which I'm totally down with. (OSR before OSR was remotely a thing) But I also agree that the biggest problem is layout and organization.
Heros Unlimited, Ninjas and Superspies, TMNT, and After the Bomb are classics that I would not hesitate to play or run in a moment. I cannot tell you to untold hours of joy and friendship that these games have provided, or provided the backdrop to. But I am not interested anything that's come out from them in a while. Plus my disdain for Kevin's business practices have not helped. But to separate Kevin from the business, he is a good guy, super creative, and a bang up great GM. I'm saying that having met him and interacted with him in person.
I hear you and I don't disagree on everything. I've been waiting for them to finish the Tomb of the Grotesqu and Beyond Arcanum and I pre-ordered them but at least they didn't bill me for it. And I have heard that freelancers can have falling outs with Kevin and that he goes from "loving them" to being hypercritical or difficult to work with quickly. I remember Bill Coffin posting on RPG.net about his falling out with Kevin. But, I had a chance a few years ago to ask Bill about that at a Con and I know he's could be being professional or something but he told me that Kevin is a good dude but he runs his company his way.

I've met Kevin many times over the years and going back like 25+ years from various cons and I'm going to the Open House next year. I sat in a game with Kevin running it at GenCon one year and you're right, he's a great referee. I still like the products they release....when they get released. I love when I see the Rifter show up in the postbox. The last book I got Secrets of the Atlanteans is really really good! I think that Kevin writes the best RPG books from his prose. His books are so conversational and it's like why the 1E DMG is better than the others because we as the reader feel like we are having a conversation with the writer and the writer created the game.

I disagree with you on Dead Reign. It can be just another Romero clone Zombie RPG but they have the stuff in there for it to be more than that. I think I would have preferred it to be the "demonic" side but they have opened that up with some of the sourcebooks.

When it comes down to Palladium Books is that I have mad respect for Kevin for running a gaming company longer than anybody else. What other RPG publisher has been in the business of publishing RPGs longer than he has? I'm talking continuous business. Palladium seems to be the only major publisher that still tries to release physical books that are affordable. I like that when my coworker decided she was interested in playing a role-playing game she was able to pick up Palladium Fantasy for $25 shipped to her door. The list price for the 5E player's handbook is $50! And it covers a whole lot less than the Palladium Fantasy.

I love the fact that Palladium does their Christmas Grab Bags each year and they are not just giving the product that they cannot sell. Kevin is slow or behind the times in a lot of different ways and I don't disagree but I'm kind of with him on being analog guy in a digital world.
That just it, it hasn't been just a one man show. Or rightly stated, it hasn't had to be. Kevin is the "King" of micromanagers. Nothing is good enough, mostly because he hasn't thought of it. He rewrites peoples submissions to the point of unrecognizability. Or take credit wholesale regardless. Because of Palladium's draconian non-disclosure policies it has writers sign, they have no recourse, not ever being able to bitch in the least bit. Or suffer a lawsuit. Lets not forget all the broken promises, otherwise known as money grabs. Look at Pallys site right now. Both Tomb of the Grotesque, and Beyond Arcanum are both up for preorder. Both of these book have been promised for over ten years. Reread that and think for a minute, Over Ten Years. Warpath (a spiritual successor to Recon using the Megaversal system) has been written for just as long. It will never see to light of day. Even if it did it wouldn't matter. As Combat, urban, and police technology has made leaps since then. Or look at Dead Reign which is a bog standard zombie game. Too bad Kevin rewrote it. Because the original was a more demonic focused zombie game not unlike certain Italian horror films. As opposed to yet another romero clone.
Now all of that being said. Do I like the system? Damn right I do. I can see how people might think it a bit clunky. Truly it's just an AD&D variant/heartbreaker. Which I'm totally down with. (OSR before OSR was remotely a thing) But I also agree that the biggest problem is layout and organization.
Heros Unlimited, Ninjas and Superspies, TMNT, and After the Bomb are classics that I would not hesitate to play or run in a moment. I cannot tell you to untold hours of joy and friendship that these games have provided, or provided the backdrop to. But I am not interested anything that's come out from them in a while. Plus my disdain for Kevin's business practices have not helped. But to separate Kevin from the business, he is a good guy, super creative, and a bang up great GM. I'm saying that having met him and interacted with him in person.
I hear you and I don't disagree on everything. I've been waiting for them to finish the Tomb of the Grotesqu and Beyond Arcanum and I pre-ordered them but at least they didn't bill me for it. And I have heard that freelancers can have falling outs with Kevin and that he goes from "loving them" to being hypercritical or difficult to work with quickly. I remember Bill Coffin posting on RPG.net about his falling out with Kevin. But, I had a chance a few years ago to ask Bill about that at a Con and I know he's could be being professional or something but he told me that Kevin is a good dude but he runs his company his way.

I've met Kevin many times over the years and going back like 25+ years from various cons and I'm going to the Open House next year. I sat in a game with Kevin running it at GenCon one year and you're right, he's a great referee. I still like the products they release....when they get released. I love when I see the Rifter show up in the postbox. The last book I got Secrets of the Atlanteans is really really good! I think that Kevin writes the best RPG books from his prose. His books are so conversational and it's like why the 1E DMG is better than the others because we as the reader feel like we are having a conversation with the writer and the writer created the game.

I disagree with you on Dead Reign. It can be just another Romero clone Zombie RPG but they have the stuff in there for it to be more than that. I think I would have preferred it to be the "demonic" side but they have opened that up with some of the sourcebooks.

When it comes down to Palladium Books is that I have mad respect for Kevin for running a gaming company longer than anybody else. What other RPG publisher has been in the business of publishing RPGs longer than he has? I'm talking continuous business. Palladium seems to be the only major publisher that still tries to release physical books that are affordable. I like that when my coworker decided she was interested in playing a role-playing game she was able to pick up Palladium Fantasy for $25 shipped to her door. The list price for the 5E player's handbook is $50! And it covers a whole lot less than the Palladium Fantasy.

I love the fact that Palladium does their Christmas Grab Bags each year and they are not just giving the product that they cannot sell. Kevin is slow or behind the times in a lot of different ways and I don't disagree but I'm kind of with him on being analog guy in a digital world. If they could revise their core rulebooks and improve the organization I'd be super happy.
 

Ronin

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I hear you and I don't disagree on everything. I've been waiting for them to finish the Tomb of the Grotesque and Beyond Arcanum and I pre-ordered them but at least they didn't bill me for it. And I have heard that freelancers can have falling outs with Kevin and that he goes from "loving them" to being hypercritical or difficult to work with quickly. I remember Bill Coffin posting on RPG.net about his falling out with Kevin. But, I had a chance a few years ago to ask Bill about that at a Con and I know he's could be being professional or something but he told me that Kevin is a good dude but he runs his company his way.
Well honestly it makes me feel better that they have not billed you for items (Tomb of the Grotesque and Beyond Arcanum) that he is never going to come out with. You can say that I don't know that. But, let's be realistic it's been over ten years.
Bill is being "professional" if you could speak with writers and freelancers freely it would be a different situation presented. But most people will never know as the NDA that Kevin has people sign, has been label by people in the law business as "Very Draconian".
I've met Kevin many times over the years and going back like 25+ years from various cons and I'm going to the Open House next year. I sat in a game with Kevin running it at GenCon one year and you're right, he's a great referee. I still like the products they release....when they get released. I love when I see the Rifter show up in the postbox. The last book I got Secrets of the Atlanteans is really really good! I think that Kevin writes the best RPG books from his prose. His books are so conversational and it's like why the 1E DMG is better than the others because we as the reader feel like we are having a conversation with the writer and the writer created the game.
I don't disagree with this a bit. Kevin is a great GM, and a nice guy.
I disagree with you on Dead Reign. It can be just another Romero clone Zombie RPG but they have the stuff in there for it to be more than that. I think I would have preferred it to be the "demonic" side but they have opened that up with some of the sourcebooks.
If only the original draft was available for the main book was available. Kevins been cribbing thats why it gone in that direction. Again I've only gleaned bits and pieces due to the NDA. It would have been way different.
When it comes down to Palladium Books is that I have mad respect for Kevin for running a gaming company longer than anybody else. What other RPG publisher has been in the business of publishing RPGs longer than he has? I'm talking continuous business. Palladium seems to be the only major publisher that still tries to release physical books that are affordable. I like that when my coworker decided she was interested in playing a role-playing game she was able to pick up Palladium Fantasy for $25 shipped to her door. The list price for the 5E player's handbook is $50! And it covers a whole lot less than the Palladium Fantasy.
This is one of the things that has made, and still makes Palladium freaking awesome.

I love the fact that Palladium does their Christmas Grab Bags each year and they are not just giving the product that they cannot sell. Kevin is slow or behind the times in a lot of different ways and I don't disagree but I'm kind of with him on being analog guy in a digital world..
Again something awesome that shows real heart and love, for the purchaser, and the games.
 

The Butcher

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I hear you and I don't disagree on everything. I've been waiting for them to finish the Tomb of the Grotesqu and Beyond Arcanum and I pre-ordered them but at least they didn't bill me for it. And I have heard that freelancers can have falling outs with Kevin and that he goes from "loving them" to being hypercritical or difficult to work with quickly. I remember Bill Coffin posting on RPG.net about his falling out with Kevin. But, I had a chance a few years ago to ask Bill about that at a Con and I know he's could be being professional or something but he told me that Kevin is a good dude but he runs his company his way.

I've met Kevin many times over the years and going back like 25+ years from various cons and I'm going to the Open House next year. I sat in a game with Kevin running it at GenCon one year and you're right, he's a great referee. I still like the products they release....when they get released. I love when I see the Rifter show up in the postbox. The last book I got Secrets of the Atlanteans is really really good! I think that Kevin writes the best RPG books from his prose. His books are so conversational and it's like why the 1E DMG is better than the others because we as the reader feel like we are having a conversation with the writer and the writer created the game.

I disagree with you on Dead Reign. It can be just another Romero clone Zombie RPG but they have the stuff in there for it to be more than that. I think I would have preferred it to be the "demonic" side but they have opened that up with some of the sourcebooks.

When it comes down to Palladium Books is that I have mad respect for Kevin for running a gaming company longer than anybody else. What other RPG publisher has been in the business of publishing RPGs longer than he has? I'm talking continuous business. Palladium seems to be the only major publisher that still tries to release physical books that are affordable. I like that when my coworker decided she was interested in playing a role-playing game she was able to pick up Palladium Fantasy for $25 shipped to her door. The list price for the 5E player's handbook is $50! And it covers a whole lot less than the Palladium Fantasy.

I love the fact that Palladium does their Christmas Grab Bags each year and they are not just giving the product that they cannot sell. Kevin is slow or behind the times in a lot of different ways and I don't disagree but I'm kind of with him on being analog guy in a digital world.


I hear you and I don't disagree on everything. I've been waiting for them to finish the Tomb of the Grotesqu and Beyond Arcanum and I pre-ordered them but at least they didn't bill me for it. And I have heard that freelancers can have falling outs with Kevin and that he goes from "loving them" to being hypercritical or difficult to work with quickly. I remember Bill Coffin posting on RPG.net about his falling out with Kevin. But, I had a chance a few years ago to ask Bill about that at a Con and I know he's could be being professional or something but he told me that Kevin is a good dude but he runs his company his way.

I've met Kevin many times over the years and going back like 25+ years from various cons and I'm going to the Open House next year. I sat in a game with Kevin running it at GenCon one year and you're right, he's a great referee. I still like the products they release....when they get released. I love when I see the Rifter show up in the postbox. The last book I got Secrets of the Atlanteans is really really good! I think that Kevin writes the best RPG books from his prose. His books are so conversational and it's like why the 1E DMG is better than the others because we as the reader feel like we are having a conversation with the writer and the writer created the game.

I disagree with you on Dead Reign. It can be just another Romero clone Zombie RPG but they have the stuff in there for it to be more than that. I think I would have preferred it to be the "demonic" side but they have opened that up with some of the sourcebooks.

When it comes down to Palladium Books is that I have mad respect for Kevin for running a gaming company longer than anybody else. What other RPG publisher has been in the business of publishing RPGs longer than he has? I'm talking continuous business. Palladium seems to be the only major publisher that still tries to release physical books that are affordable. I like that when my coworker decided she was interested in playing a role-playing game she was able to pick up Palladium Fantasy for $25 shipped to her door. The list price for the 5E player's handbook is $50! And it covers a whole lot less than the Palladium Fantasy.

I love the fact that Palladium does their Christmas Grab Bags each year and they are not just giving the product that they cannot sell. Kevin is slow or behind the times in a lot of different ways and I don't disagree but I'm kind of with him on being analog guy in a digital world. If they could revise their core rulebooks and improve the organization I'd be super happy.
Credit where credit is due:
  • Kevin has kept his operation afloat longer than anyone else;
  • Kevin is an incredible creator;
  • Palladium Fantasy is a gem of a game;
  • Palladium books mostly pack great value for money.

That being said:
  • Kevin is clearly a micromanager;
  • Kevin loves a cut-n-paste job;
  • Kevin is too often unable or unwilling to update the stuff he cuts-n-pastes (e.g. weapons);
  • Kevin does not playtest anything, ever;
  • Kevin has not played by the rules he writes for a long time;
  • Kevin has made no effort to make said rules more presentable or consistent in 20+ years;
  • Kevin has a love of hyperbole that borders on the dishonest;
  • Kevin has promised a ton of books (Mechanoid Space, the BtS2 books) for decades, has taken pre-orders for some of them and has nothing to show for it;
  • Palladium coasts by on the loyalty of a relatively small but very hardcore pack of fans who believe, to some degree, that Kevin can do no wrong.
And that's all just off the top of my head.

I have a ton of fond memories of Palladium and all too often catch myself wondering to pick up and play one of their games (most recently Heroes Unlimited) but fuck it, I end up questioning whether it's even worth the effort anymore.

It's one thing to be fascinated with Palladium when you're 14 and all you know is D&D (AD&D2, BECMI/RC and a couple of heartbreakers), GURPS, D6 Star Wars and White Wolf stuff. Quite another these days when the queue of games to try is long, and time is short.
 

Ulairi

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Credit where credit is due:
  • Kevin has kept his operation afloat longer than anyone else;
  • Kevin is an incredible creator;
  • Palladium Fantasy is a gem of a game;
  • Palladium books mostly pack great value for money.

That being said:
  • Kevin is clearly a micromanager;
  • Kevin loves a cut-n-paste job;
  • Kevin is too often unable or unwilling to update the stuff he cuts-n-pastes (e.g. weapons);
  • Kevin does not playtest anything, ever;
  • Kevin has not played by the rules he writes for a long time;
  • Kevin has made no effort to make said rules more presentable or consistent in 20+ years;
  • Kevin has a love of hyperbole that borders on the dishonest;
  • Kevin has promised a ton of books (Mechanoid Space, the BtS2 books) for decades, has taken pre-orders for some of them and has nothing to show for it;
  • Palladium coasts by on the loyalty of a relatively small but very hardcore pack of fans who believe, to some degree, that Kevin can do no wrong.
And that's all just off the top of my head.

I have a ton of fond memories of Palladium and all too often catch myself wondering to pick up and play one of their games (most recently Heroes Unlimited) but fuck it, I end up questioning whether it's even worth the effort anymore.

It's one thing to be fascinated with Palladium when you're 14 and all you know is D&D (AD&D2, BECMI/RC and a couple of heartbreakers), GURPS, D6 Star Wars and White Wolf stuff. Quite another these days when the queue of games to try is long, and time is short.

I’m not interested in trying new games. I don’t have the time for it. I like playing games that I know how to play and let me do what I want to do.

Kevin does play the rules he writes. I’ve games with him at cons and he runs the games. Are you saying he doesn’t have a regular game anymore? I’m a little unclear with what you’re trying to say.

I guess I’m weird that I don’t need new books when the books I have work. I wish we could get revisions to the products to clean up and better organize the older books. But I do not want money going into high production value books that cost $40-$60 to buy. I cannot afford that.

Is there another creator that has been aciticely creating new books for as long as Kevin?

If we get Garden of then Gods this year I’ll be happy. If we get the Lopan book I’ll be beyond happy.

There are new games and I’ll buy them or play them for a short time but I keep coming back to Palladium Fantasy because I just like it better.

I think Kevin is obviously a micro manger but I work with a lot of business owners in my day job and that’s a very common trait. It’s his company.

There isn’t another fantasy rpg out there that I like as much as Palladium Fantasy. The world he created and the stuff in those books hasn’t been matched. At least not by the OSR.

Also the Palladium artists are brilliant and what they do and I love the B&W art. I think it helps that Kevin is a good artist himself.

Can I also add that when talkin to Kevin versus say... Mike Mearls that Kevin comes across as a real person more? I’ve talked to Mike Mearls multiple times at GaryCon and Kevin at many cons and when talking with Kevin he engages with his customers more and more sincerely than a lot of publishers I’ve talked to. Last year at GenCon when my family and I went to his booth he actually engaged with my oldest daughter and talked to her about what she likes to play and why what’s fun for her and she’s 8.
 

Ulairi

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I want to add one more thing: my frustration with Kevin is that if he had someone to run the business and let him focus on creating I think Palladium could be more successful and have more fans.

I’m frustrated by the lack of communication and deadlines. But even with the Robotech miniatures game I backed it and I haven’t received wave 3 but I’m more unhappy about the lack of continued support and scenario books. I think he has too much in his plate so nothing gets done instead of focusing on one or two books at a time.
 

The Butcher

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Kevin does play the rules he writes. I’ve games with him at cons and he runs the games. Are you saying he doesn’t have a regular game anymore? I’m a little unclear with what you’re trying to say.
Reports I read from Palladium Open House™©® goers who sat at games he ran suggested that Kevin ran all but freeform. You're the first I've read who says otherwise.
 

Ulairi

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Reports I read from Palladium Open House™©® goers who sat at games he ran suggested that Kevin ran all but freeform. You're the first I've read who says otherwise.
I was at the open house in 2015 and it seemed to be fine. I guess I’m confused about what they mean by free form. I played in a fantasy game and it was pretty much straight Palladium Fantasy. I’ll pay closer attention this year
 

Ladybird

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I want to add one more thing: my frustration with Kevin is that if he had someone to run the business and let him focus on creating I think Palladium could be more successful and have more fans.

I’m frustrated by the lack of communication and deadlines. But even with the Robotech miniatures game I backed it and I haven’t received wave 3 but I’m more unhappy about the lack of continued support and scenario books. I think he has too much in his plate so nothing gets done instead of focusing on one or two books at a time.
Define "successful", though. I have a feeling Kevin considers Palladium to be perfectly successful, to his own standards.
 

Spinachcat

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I am a Palladium fan. I especially enjoy Mechanoids, Chaos Earth and Classic Rifts.
I love the Christmas Grab Bags. I've bought several and I've gotten what I've wanted (combo of old and new books).
I have played Palladium Fantasy with Kevin at the Open House. He's very freeform and a very fun GM.
I highly recommend the Palladium Open House (Spring 2018!). It's a tremendously fun convention.

Kevin has been successful because Palladium Books exists and somehow pays the bills for his entire crew for 30+ years. That's freaking amazing in the RPG industry. Steve Jackson is still around, but SJG isn't a RPG company. GURPS is an add-on.

The rules need clean up and chargen needs to be streamlined. It's an easy system to use if you've played it a lot, but its a chore for those coming from modern RPGs. I don't know if that clean up / streamlining will ever occur.

Unfortunately, Butcher nailed it. This isn't 1983 or 1993 or even 2003. In 2018, there are far too many choices, so nobody has to take the time to fiddle with wonky systems if they just want play a RPG RAW without the DIY hassle.
 

Spinachcat

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cannot tell you to untold hours of joy and friendship that these games have provided, or provided the backdrop to.
THIS is why Palladium has fans.

As wonky as the system can be, if somebody says "let's play Palladium XYZ", I am down like Charlie Brown for what will probably be great fun.

Kevin, for all his faults, does have the secret sauce.
 

Ulairi

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Define "successful", though. I have a feeling Kevin considers Palladium to be perfectly successful, to his own standards.
Wel he is successful and I just mean more people playjng his games
 

Ulairi

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I am a Palladium fan. I especially enjoy Mechanoids, Chaos Earth and Classic Rifts.
I love the Christmas Grab Bags. I've bought several and I've gotten what I've wanted (combo of old and new books).
I have played Palladium Fantasy with Kevin at the Open House. He's very freeform and a very fun GM.
I highly recommend the Palladium Open House (Spring 2018!). It's a tremendously fun convention.

Kevin has been successful because Palladium Books exists and somehow pays the bills for his entire crew for 30+ years. That's freaking amazing in the RPG industry. Steve Jackson is still around, but SJG isn't a RPG company. GURPS is an add-on.

The rules need clean up and chargen needs to be streamlined. It's an easy system to use if you've played it a lot, but its a chore for those coming from modern RPGs. I don't know if that clean up / streamlining will ever occur.

Unfortunately, Butcher nailed it. This isn't 1983 or 1993 or even 2003. In 2018, there are far too many choices, so nobody has to take the time to fiddle with wonky systems if they just want play a RPG RAW without the DIY hassle.
Spin did you see the getting started with Rifts guide they did a few Rifters ago? That should be free and they should have one for every game like.

Character creation is a chore and the organization makes a pretty good system much more complex.

Another big problem is that I don’t get enough Palladium Fantasy which I think if an ultimate edition that was streamlined and well organized could
Do gang busters today.

Are you going to the open house? I will be there Thursday through Sunday. If you are we should say hello!
 

Spinachcat

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My schedule is so crazy I can't plan out far enough to confirm the POH yet, but I hope client projects will mellow out so I can attend. I missed the last one and I don't want to wait 2 more years. I wish they would make the POH annual.

I did see the Rifts starter guide and I don't understand why its not a free PDF. There were freebie starter-ish things being created by Megaversal Ambassadors, but I don't know if any got the blessing from above.

Chargen is a mess. I don't know how to fix it without a total overhaul.

Palladium Fantasy and 13th Age had a window of opportunity to increase their popularity between 4e's end and 5e's launch. For over a year, there was no D&D on the shelf as the go-to product. THAT was the time to strike, but neither company took the hammer to the anvil.

I don't know why PB didn't re-release Palladium Fantasy 1e as a 30th anniversary reprint. I would have bought them as gifts. I much prefer 1e to 2e, but that said, I'd play 2e without much pause.
 

Ulairi

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I got my grab bags and included was a really nice personalized note fron Kevin thanking me for being a customer. Was kind of cool.

I ended up getting all the top items I wanted and got some neat sketches and a cool Christmas shirt. I really want one of those Rifts poker card decks.

Our group does our Christmas session next week Saturday so will be neat to hand out the books for my players.
 

Bunch

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Did everyone see that they are also doing a digital grab bag at drivethrurpg?
 

Endless Flight

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I have to say I’m not a Palladium fan but that’s pretty awesome.
 

Spinachcat

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Happy to hear the Christmas Bag turned out great!

What books did you get?

At the Palladium Open House convention, Kevin was supercool about doing sketches in books. I have his signature dragon in my Rifts hardcover.
 

Spinachcat

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Go for it!

Take a hammer to the system bits that don't work for your crew - whatever those issues may be, then bask in the awesome.
 

Ulairi

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Happy to hear the Christmas Bag turned out great!

What books did you get?

At the Palladium Open House convention, Kevin was supercool about doing sketches in books. I have his signature dragon in my Rifts hardcover.
The core Heroes Unlimited because I don’t own it and have never played it. It was my game I’d like to try. I also got: mysteries of magic book one, Dead Reign Hell Followed, Megaverse in Flames, a t shirt merry Christmas from the Coalition States, and some art prints.

I ordered two more. I don’t have a lot of Rifts books because I have always preferred Palladium Fantasy so I am tying to use these to build it that collection as I wait for more fantasy books.
 

Ronin

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I rolled a long time with just the HU core book. Lot of awesome and value in that book.
 
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