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Voros

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I noticed a lot of Palladium talk in the GURPS thread so I thought we should have a thread here for everything not Palladium Fantasy which already has a thread here.

I have Ninjas and Superspies and TMNT mainly out of curiousity since Eric Wujcik wrote them.

Interested in hearing more about Beyond the Supernatural and Night Bane, one thing you've got to give Palladium is they had great, eye-catching covers (although I'm less a fan of their huge blocks of text layout within).

BTW most of their back catalogue looks available on Drivethrurpg.

s-l640.jpg 220px-Nightbane_RPG_1995.jpg BetweenShadows.jpg 60644.jpg 60680.jpg
 

noman

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I tend to be harsh on Kevin and Palladium, so let me be clear about something from the very start:

Rifts? Palladium Fantasy? Whatevs.

Beyond the Supernatural and Nightbane are the best horror/urban fantasy games I've ever played. :thumbsup:
 

The Butcher

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I noticed a lot of Palladium talk in the GURPS thread so I thought we should have a thread here for everything not Palladium Fantasy which already has a thread here.

I have Ninjas and Superspies and TMNT mainly out of curiousity since Eric Wujcik wrote them.

Interested in hearing more about Beyond the Supernatural and Night Bane, one thing you've got to give Palladium is they had great, eye-catching covers (although I'm less a fan of their huge blocks of text layout within).

BTW most of their back catalogue looks available on Drivethrurpg.

View attachment 1226 View attachment 1227 View attachment 1228 View attachment 1229 View attachment 1230

My one gripe with BtS is that it gives you a spell list that includes flashy elemental attack magic (Fire Bolt, Call Lightning, etc.) and no good reason for PCs not to be casting them publicly in broad daylight. If I was running it I’d probably doctor the spell list accordingly. (Though to be honest, if I wanted to run class-and-level-based modern action-horror, I’d rather use Silent Legions.)

I don’t know how Nightbane manages this problem but the General WoD-ish conspiratorial tone with the Nightlords controlling an intelligence agency (IIRC) gives at least one good in-game reason for supernatural PCs to keep their nature and talents hush-hush.

N&S is my favorite Palladium game that I never played. I still want to run my Bloodsport/Street Fighter campaign some day.

Quite curious about the original Mechanoids.
 

Ladybird

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I have a copy of Nightbane!

...I tried reading it, and man, I have no idea where to even start. It's just a mess. I saw it had a lot of cool mutation tables tough, and they were neat.
 

Bunch

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My one gripe with BtS is that it gives you a spell list that includes flashy elemental attack magic (Fire Bolt, Call Lightning, etc.) and no good reason for PCs not to be casting them publicly in broad daylight. If I was running it I’d probably doctor the spell list accordingly. (Though to be honest, if I wanted to run class-and-level-based modern action-horror, I’d rather use Silent Legions.)

I don’t know how Nightbane manages this problem but the General WoD-ish conspiratorial tone with the Nightlords controlling an intelligence agency (IIRC) gives at least one good in-game reason for supernatural PCs to keep their nature and talents hush-hush.

N&S is my favorite Palladium game that I never played. I still want to run my Bloodsport/Street Fighter campaign some day.

Quite curious about the original Mechanoids.
Get it here.
 

Black Leaf

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TMNT was the first game I ever GMed and it just fit perfectly into what we wanted at the time. Palladium (along with Runequest) is the main system that introduced me to the concept of RPGs that are "not D&D".
 

Edgewise

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I definitely don't share the love for the Palladium rule system. It always felt, to me, like D&D+. The problem with that is that it can come off as wedged between two layers of abstraction. D&D is actually a highly abstract game. When you start bolting on more specific bits like AC bonuses when you level, the abstractions start to breakdown and you're left with a mess that's less coherent than the usual D&D. I don't hate it, but I always felt like it went halfway in another direction only to stop short.

The actual settings and supplements have always seemed pretty decent to me. Palladium fantasy is much cooler and darker than the (best left) forgotten realms. I never got into Rifts, but I can respect what it's trying to do. For supers and horror, I can think of much better systems. And I think they did a decent job with the licenses they had when they had them.
 

Ulairi

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The system I’m fine with. I know it and it works. I think it needs a revision and to be better organized but I’m fine with an AD&D fork. I’d also be fine with Savage Worlds or other systems if they could get the settings right from a writing and art standpoint and Savage Rifts is sadly, lacking there.
 

Vincent Takeda

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I've been running Heroes Unlimited with Ninjas and Superspies pretty close to exclusively for the last 2 decades. We've dabbled recently in Dead Reign as well. Lots of houserules of course but for the kinds of sandboxing that goes on at my table it's the perfect fit. As the most-of-the-time dm in my group, I'm not as big a fan of rifts partly for the MDC and partly because I dont like being beholden to such an endless array of preexisting lore. I'm a huge fan of the palladium alignment system.
 

Spinachcat

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I lurve me some Nightbane.

Ladybird Ladybird, you're right. It's a mess of a book. Like most Palladium books, there are cool nuggets everywhere and great ideas in between the margins.

I've run NB using PB's system (plus my house rules) and I've run it using Tri-Stat. I suspect NB would work fine with your favorite Supers game system.

For me, NB is the WOD I wanted - 50% less angst, 100% more kickass. Trenchcoats, katanas, and SMGs aren't cliches. They're standard gear!

Lots of houserules of course but for the kinds of sandboxing that goes on at my table it's the perfect fit.

What houserules do you use?
 

Dammit Viktor

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Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles & Other Strangeness is so much goodness packed into such a tiny space, and it kills me that the rules are full of copypasta and weird gaps. One of the main reasons I am dying for Feral RPG.

Palladium's house system is also counted among my major influences for my untitled simulacrum, just for the concept that skill slots give you more than just bonuses on skill checks.
 

noman

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Palladium games are like that friend you had in highschool, you know the one: smart, sassy, headstrong, loved adventure, did things his own way and somehow made it work. You loved that guy! You and he had great times together, and you were certain, certain that he'd go far.

Instead he flaked out, couldn't get his shit organized, and kept doing things the old-fashioned way when better options had come along a long time ago. He sits there, now, watching others pass him by with new, interesting ways of doing things. But he keeps doing the same thing in the same way, refusing to change.

I swear, if Palladium released new editions to their lines, cleaned up their formatting, did some system changes to streamline it a bit, and dumped their obsession with 'Registered This' and 'Trademark That', I'd throw gobs of money at them. Like a RPG stripper I'm obsessed over.

But they had their chance. Now I put dollar bills in Monte's g-string instead of Kevin's. :money::evil::tongue:
 

Bunch

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Looking at that cover makes me wonder how I saw it on the shelf years ago yet never actually bought it. Also, I have the exact same battlemat!
Underneath that is a rather cool magnetic square battlemat that was just awesome for playing 4e D&D. Came with a set of magnetic flagpoles you could stack effects on. Really helped you keep track of things.
 

Spinachcat

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I swear, if Palladium released new editions to their lines, cleaned up their formatting, did some system changes to streamline it a bit, and dumped their obsession with 'Registered This' and 'Trademark That', I'd throw gobs of money at them. Like a RPG stripper I'm obsessed over.

Except for Noman's "hey Kevin work that pole" part, this is one of the most common posts on the PB forums.

Did you buy Savage Rifts?

Also, you may want to check out Systems Failure. It's probably their best laid out and cleaned up book.
 

noman

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Except for Noman's "hey Kevin work that pole" part, this is one of the most common posts on the PB forums.

I think if that were to become a meme, Palladium would enact the changes we all want. :grin:

Also, it's hilarious.

Did you buy Savage Rifts?

Bought it, read it, loved it, and queued it for an upcoming campaign.

Also, you may want to check out Systems Failure. It's probably their best laid out and cleaned up book.

Will take a look. Thanks for the suggestion!
 

Vincent Takeda

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What houserules do you use?
Many pilfered from other systems... Lets see. Off the top of my head?
  • Nat20 plus bonuses can be beaten by non nat20 with higher bonuses
  • Instead of double damage for crits, its max plus a roll
  • Nothing stacks
  • AR is now both resistive and ablative and no longer interacts with the strike roll in any way
  • Single attack per round. Bonuses to attack per round, where listed, are instead initiative bonuses and again.. do not stack.
  • Only the winner of the initiative roll gets to go, thus possibly acheiving multiple sequential attacks but at a smaller ratio
  • The time segment for attacks is now 2 seconds, anyone choosing to move during their segment opens up 2 seconds of movement for everyone else simultaneously
 

Ulairi

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Does anybody know why savage riffs art is so poor compared to Palladium is art? Are they not allowed to use the Palladium artist?
 

Vincent Takeda

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Palladium games are like that friend you had in highschool, you know the one: smart, sassy, headstrong, loved adventure, did things his own way and somehow made it work. You loved that guy! You and he had great times together, and you were certain, certain that he'd go far.

Instead he flaked out, couldn't get his shit organized, and kept doing things the old-fashioned way when better options had come along a long time ago. He sits there, now, watching others pass him by with new, interesting ways of doing things. But he keeps doing the same thing in the same way, refusing to change.

I resemble this remark.

On a side note, didnt they just announce Savage Rifts Wave 2 this week?
 

Ulairi

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Palladium games are like that friend you had in highschool, you know the one: smart, sassy, headstrong, loved adventure, did things his own way and somehow made it work. You loved that guy! You and he had great times together, and you were certain, certain that he'd go far.

Instead he flaked out, couldn't get his shit organized, and kept doing things the old-fashioned way when better options had come along a long time ago. He sits there, now, watching others pass him by with new, interesting ways of doing things. But he keeps doing the same thing in the same way, refusing to change.

I swear, if Palladium released new editions to their lines, cleaned up their formatting, did some system changes to streamline it a bit, and dumped their obsession with 'Registered This' and 'Trademark That', I'd throw gobs of money at them. Like a RPG stripper I'm obsessed over.

But they had their chance. Now I put dollar bills in Monte's g-string instead of Kevin's. :money::evil::tongue:

I think Palladium needs to clean up the game and have revisions. However! I think you’re metaphor is off because Palladium has been publishing games for almost 40 years under continuous ownership. Nobody else has been publishing role playing games as long as they have with the same owner. Nobody.

To me he’s the high school friend that was super cool and vintage and at your 25 year reunion is still rocking the same leather jacket, Levi’s, and van still has the airbrushed on wizard. And at the 35 reunion still has one rule for his van: all Rush all the time.

Other people may rent the Tesla and the fancy tux but they burn through their cash and end up living on their moms couch. Palladium is like that millionaire next door. Keep plugging away why the hot and sexy becomes old and busted
 

noman

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I resemble this remark.

Vincent, If I offended you in any way, I apologize. I tend to be critical of Palladium, sometime unfairly. I just see it as a company that purposefully works to reject me as a fan. :grin:

But I stand by my observations.
 

noman

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I think Palladium needs to clean up the game and have revisions. However! I think you’re metaphor is off because Palladium has been publishing games for almost 40 years under continuous ownership. Nobody else has been publishing role playing games as long as they have with the same owner. Nobody.

A fair point. I just don't consider long-term participation to be a reliable metric of success.
 

CRKrueger

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Someone needs to do some kind of hostile takeover of Palladium, then hire professional layout people, get Kevin Long back, and wait for Kevin to realise making money for writing stuff without having to run a Company was his actual dream job.
 

Vincent Takeda

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Vincent, If I offended you in any way, I apologize.

Nah its cool. Kevin Siembieda deserves every bit of heat he gets, and I'm playing one of the few systems that hasn't changed much at all in 3 decades. I stand in a pretty unique square even amongst palladium fans bringing it back to 1 attack per round and non stacking bonuses and such. Single attacks per round is PFRPG 1.0 kinda stuff. I may love the Wuj better than Kevin but 9 attacks per round is not what my table needs, lol.

So even among palladium fans, they see my house rules and go 'what? no... that fundamentally changes the game.'

Yes. Yes it does. I'm ok being among the groggiest of grognards. I'll admit being a palladium player doesnt fit in much at modern game shops. I'm the lebowski of gamers. The dude abides.
 

Vincent Takeda

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Someone needs to do some kind of hostile takeover of Palladium,

My ex wife is planning to relocate my son to Kalamazoo at the end of July, so I'll be within 3 hours of Kevin himself. They should open up a position for teachin them how to get back on the production schedules that they post instead of this 'we said 20 books this year but we meant 3' thing they've been doing for as long as we can remember. :tongue:

Much as Kalamazoo sounds like the last place on earth I'd want to live, I'd love to crack a little whip in person.
 

noman

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Nah its cool. Kevin Siembieda deserves every bit of heat he gets, and I'm playing one of the few systems that hasn't changed much at all in 3 decades. I stand in a pretty unique square even amongst palladium fans bringing it back to 1 attack per round and non stacking bonuses and such. Single attacks per round is PFRPG 1.0 kinda stuff. I may love the Wuj better than Kevin but 9 attacks per round is not what my table needs, lol.

So even among palladium fans, they see my house rules and go 'what? no... that fundamentally changes the game.'

Yes. Yes it does. I'm ok being among the groggiest of grognards. I'll admit being a palladium player doesnt fit in much at modern game shops. I'm the lebowski of gamers. The dude abides.

I can't like this enough.

I tend to come down hard on Palladium in part because I think it could be so much more awesome than it is. And it wouldn't take much. Just a little nudge in the right direction.

It's a sleeping titan of old, just waiting for the right motivation to wake it up and dominate the hobby. At least that's how I like to think about it.
 

Vincent Takeda

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I kind of think of Kevin like any other creative artist. He loves his baby and he's super self critical. He's got all these ideas that are truly great and unique, but his business acumen is horrible. Even an artist knows that at some point you just gotta put the paintbrush down. The reason for publishing deadlines is to say 'look. we could refine and add and edit for the next 40 years and never be 'done'... But at some point we're just gonna have to call it good enough, print the damn thing and ship it.

He needs to learn the theory of engineering estimates. Underpromise and overdeliver. Not the other way around.
 

Spinachcat

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I stand in a pretty unique square even amongst palladium fans bringing it back to 1 attack per round and non stacking bonuses and such. Single attacks per round is PFRPG 1.0 kinda stuff.

It's not much different than what I do in Mechanoids.

Except I stack various bonuses. Mechanoids doesn't have too many bonus options so its not a big issue. I use ROF to increase chance of hitting and increase damage, thus providing some value for that weapon stat without having someone roll 6 times in a round shooting off their pistol.
 

Ulairi

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I got my RTT Wave 2 exchange product today. I pretty much have a ton of minis that I won’t build for years. Gives me something to do in retirement
 

Ulairi

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A fair point. I just don't consider long-term participation to be a reliable metric of success.
Being able to have positive cash flow and not run his business at a NOL is success. I’ve thought about this a lot after reading this thread and I’m wondering if Kevin is happy with the size of his business the way it is right now. It could be possible that some of his customers are more ambitious than Kevin is right now. He’s got to be in his early 60’s now and he may be over trying to conquer the world or really grow anymore.

I wonder if we will see the Savage Worlds partnership expand into other IPs that Palladium Books owns. This may be away for him to wind down his own operations while still draw revenue from the IP. The industry really doesn’t have any experience with “What happens when the creator wants to retire?” Because the games are either owned by a larger corporation (see D&D), licensed product that have their own expiration date, or the companies have gone out of business. What happens when somebody runs their company for 40 years and just wants to be done?

I am going to ask at the Q&A at this years open house about what his plans for transition are. He’s getting up there in years.
 
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