Piracy, the Trove and how they affect the Hobby

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With the smaller publishers, it seems more complicated. With someone like Arion Games, from what Graham has said I think Fighting Fantasy is still owned by Jackson/Livingstone. But I'd assume that the books that Graham has written himself are copyright Arion with the FF license paid for.
When I contracted with Goodman Games for my Points of Light book, I was offered a lump sum for all rights or I could keep the rights and accept a royalty. I opted to keep the right. And the rights I had was only to the text and my maps. I did not have any rights to brand name "Points of Lights", nor did I have any rights to the art or how the books were presented. So I can take any of the eight setting I created and the maps and use them elsewhere but with new art and a different layout. I did not make as much as I would with the lump sum but my hands are not tied on what I can do with my own original idea.

I am doing that for the first time with my first Majestic Fantasy Realms project. I wrote Southland first and then later Blackmarsh. I designed Blackmarsh so it fits along Southland's northern border. In my upcoming project I have combined the two on one of the four maps. The project is basically the below fleshed out into four bigger maps, redrawn in color, and polished up.

Blackmarsh+Southland+Combined+Rev+1.jpg
 
As an another example, my Judges Guild license allows Judges Guild to use any of the published Majestic Wilderlands IP once it ends and I still get to use my original elements as long as I don't use any Judges Guild IP. You can see this in my Basic Rules for the Majestic Fantasy RPG book which in part is a continuation of what I presented in the Majestic Wilderlands supplement but without any Judge Guild IP.
 
Well, that didn't last long.


"ADMINS NOTE 2012/10/13

Welp. That was quick. After recieving numerous DMCA
Takedowns from companys that probably pay an army
of lawyers in an hour more than I make in a year I
am going to have to put this project to bed.

The thing about these kinda of community lead things
is that they don't stay dead for long.

Be kind to one another and don't let this get you down."

trove 2 gone. RPG creators can breathe a sigh of relief for a day/week/month/whenever
 
Is this the Alanah Pierce site, the discord, or something else?


2012?
 
The mirror of the trove that popped up a few days ago I think. Don't know the other ones ...
 
Is this the Alanah Pierce site, the discord, or something else?


2012?
It's the mirror which I believe started on Reddit.

And I have to ask what the admin was expecting.

Pirate sites are one thing, but whiny pirate sites acting hard done by are just comical.
 
I think "leaning into it" is a better approach than trying to fight it.

Like if you put out a barebones. artless version of your game on pdf for free, people aren't going to go to the trouble of scanning in a full copy, and those that would buy from you are willing to pay for the full version.

This worked fine for Mantic, in fact to this day, the free version of KoW, which includes just the rules, with no art or history/fluff, is the pdf that 4chan distributes. Players and fans will buy the physical book with the art and history.
As a consumer I really like this business model and ones similar to it for gaming. Many of my favorite modern games use this model: LotFP, Stars Without Number, Mothership and The Nightmares Underneath to name a few. In every case, I have sprung for the full version along with supplements after perusing the free version. My cheap associates who never pay for anything when it can be pirated are satisfied with the free version.

We don't have any hard data but my gut and anecdotal experience tells me that it can be good for the creator as well. Maybe only 10% of people who download the product turn into paying customers. The rest of the users may never pay but their use and endorsement attracts other paying customers, increasing the conversion rate of free users to paying.
 
This talk about piracy this and illegal/unethical that does kind of beg the question. When even a determined foe of piracy in any form more or less says it's ok in certain circumstances to pirate stuff if it means it stops it vanishing forever, which games are out of print/too expensive or just impossible to get hold of ("They can buy it when they've prized it out of my cold dead hands mother. Now leave the mountain dew and cheetos and close the door. The auction is down to the last 30 seconds and I have to warm up my bid finger. Make sure no one else in the house or the neighbourhood is using the internet, as I outlined.") that are really worth preserving because they'll be forgotten about and lost? Yes some of them were really crap hence they failed.

DC Heroes and Blood of Heroes (admittedly not for the art but the game is solid)
Marvel Saga the card version (no way Dragonlance version would be coming back)
Heroes (British RPG looks like this:

heroes-rpg.png
) Don't know what it's like but it goes for £££s when listed on ebay

Marvel Universe RPG (the diceless one which really needs a damn good edit and clarification/ground up rewrite in some parts)
DC Universe RPG the D6 version

Weird how most of them are superhero rpgs. I'd also like Tunnels & Trolls 5.5 but that has been bought up (I think) by someone who bought Flying Buffalo so maybe watch this space. The corgi books would be nice to reprint too as a full set in a presentation slipcase.

Clean crisp scans or ground up digital files and print on demand. I can pipe dream.

Maybe one day a 'RPG preservation society' dedicated to keeping dead games alive might be a thing with any proceeds from print on demand going to whoever owns the rights or a charity. I'm not suggesting rush out and pirate these things - most had a fuzzy scan on the pirate sites anyway - but there must be some way of preserving this stuff so it doesn't die out completely, and in a way that doesn't have people 'releasing the hounds' so to speak with cease and desist letters. No one is making money from them.
 
Flying Buffalo was terrible at selling books. They Tweeted about how they found a bunch of Corgi books and were gonna sell them, and listed everything except City of Terrors, which they also had. Their site ALWAYS had stuff listed as out of stock when they actually had it. They may still have new copies of 5.5, I bought one from them last year.
 
Bought Heroes (thanks Sosthenes) PDF. Looks like a scan of the original and from an iffy source with some text faded out. It's definitely 'of its time' for example a quick skim through looks like...

crunchy.png


I'm glad to know that the game is being preserved and has been updated with a new version. Downside is that v1.2 is sold out and no pdf option.
 
Bought Heroes (thanks Sosthenes) PDF. Looks like a scan of the original and from an iffy source with some text faded out. It's definitely 'of its time' for example a quick skim through looks like...

crunchy.png


I'm glad to know that the game is being preserved and has been updated with a new version. Downside is that v1.2 is sold out and no pdf option.
Seems about right to me as a formula, especially if SL is Social Level:thumbsup:!
 
View attachment 36747
So Suitor's social level times half of a player character - Parent's Social Level time three the result multiplied by 10.

Man half of a PC! They were brutal back then! :wink:
I have this conversation with 10 and 11 year old students all the time about word problems in math. When the question asks you how many students... do you know what you're saying when you tell me the answer is 1.5 students? Really?!
 
Maybe, maybe. But I also think it's still just... a kinda shitty thing to do? And I know Jennifer isn't exactly innocent regarding doing and saying shitty things, and casually says and does much worse, but still.
One more thing on this: RPGPundit has every right to ban the use of his real name on his own forum. But it's out there. If he's gonna run his mouth, he's gonna make himself a target. If he can't handle that, he should shut the fuck up. Don't talk shit if you can't throw hands, so to speak. I'm not saying he should be doxxed, but as far as I'm concerned, anything that's public is fair game.

Back when I owned a forum of shitty people, I foolishly allowed my info to fall into the hands of honest-to-god nazis and white nationalists. The fault was mine for not being careful enough (not to mention for associating with/being such scum and providing that mindset a forum in the first place). My info is still out there if you know where to look. But Im not hiding. I accept that I said and did things that were flat wrong.The fault and the responsibility for that lie with me. And I won't hide from that any more than I would hide my feelings or beliefs about what I think is right. If he feels so justified, why hide?

I don't think a guy like RPGPundit, who styles himself as a real internet tough guy, a savior of the OSR (his latest remarks about "standing in the way" betray a real egomaniaca, a disdain even for those who support him, like they need him to save them lol), can then run and hide behind some imaginary line in the sand when the shit gets thick. I mean he can (and will), but, well, that's what cowards do.

Again, his forum, his rules. Outside of there? He deserves no more respect or consideration than he has given anyone else.

Just my $0.02.
 
I don't think a guy like RPGPundit, who styles himself as a real internet tough guy, a savior of the OSR (his latest remarks about "standing in the way" betray a real egomaniaca, a disdain even for those who support him, like they need him to save them lol), can then run and hide behind some imaginary line in the sand when the shit gets thick. I mean he can (and will), but, well, that's what cowards do.
My issue is that it is all an act put on for commercial promotion.
 
One more thing on this: RPGPundit has every right to ban the use of his real name on his own forum. But it's out there. If he's gonna run his mouth, he's gonna make himself a target. If he can't handle that, he should shut the fuck up. Don't talk shit if you can't throw hands, so to speak. I'm not saying he should be doxxed, but as far as I'm concerned, anything that's public is fair game.

Back when I owned a forum of shitty people, I foolishly allowed my info to fall into the hands of honest-to-god nazis and white nationalists. The fault was mine for not being careful enough (not to mention for associating with/being such scum and providing that mindset a forum in the first place). My info is still out there if you know where to look. But Im not hiding. I accept that I said and did things that were flat wrong.The fault and the responsibility for that lie with me. And I won't hide from that any more than I would hide my feelings or beliefs about what I think is right. If he feels so justified, why hide?

I don't think a guy like RPGPundit, who styles himself as a real internet tough guy, a savior of the OSR (his latest remarks about "standing in the way" betray a real egomaniaca, a disdain even for those who support him, like they need him to save them lol), can then run and hide behind some imaginary line in the sand when the shit gets thick. I mean he can (and will), but, well, that's what cowards do.

Again, his forum, his rules. Outside of there? He deserves no more respect or consideration than he has given anyone else.

Just my $0.02.
On the one hand, nobody can post on the Internet and be assured of their privacy, but I expect decent people to respect those boundaries, even in regard to someone like Pundit. And keep in mind, this all happened before Pundit and Fox adopted their political identities. They were just purely annoying about RPGs back then. Fox put out Pundits information, not because of some grandiose social agenda, he did it because he was mad that Pundit's mods were deleting his spammy posts after repeated warnings.

The sheer, petty spitefulness of this says volumes about Fox's personality.
 
On the one hand, nobody can post on the Internet and be assured of their privacy, but I expect decent people to respect those boundaries, even in regard to someone like Pundit. And keep in mind, this all happened before Pundit and Fox adopted their political identities. They were just purely annoying about RPGs back then. Fox put out Pundits information, not because of some grandiose social agenda, he did it because he was mad that Pundit's mods were deleting his spammy posts after repeated warnings.

The sheer, petty spitefulness of this says volumes about Fox's personality.
I understand that, and I'm not defending such behavior, to be clear. What I'm saying is that adults need to a) be responsible for their own safety and privacy online, and b) not go around talking shit they're unwilling to put their name on. If you're not willing to sign off on your own statements, that oughta tell you something about what you're saying.
 
You can say what you want about Pundit, his grandiosity, his adverse marketing techniques, but I believe - until proven otherwise - that the guy has integrity. This Daniel Fox character, on the other hand...

I know neither one of those guys personally.
 
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I understand that, and I'm not defending such behavior, to be clear. What I'm saying is that adults need to a) be responsible for their own safety and privacy online, and b) not go around talking shit they're unwilling to put their name on. If you're not willing to sign off on your own statements, that oughta tell you something about what you're saying.
Yeah, I've always found the combination of casting himself as the guy on the ramparts while keeping his identity a secret to be silly. I understand what you are saying. At the same time, I feel the correct response is to not take him seriously, not to invade his privacy.
 
You can say what you want about Pundit, his grandiosity, his adverse marketing techniques, but I believe - until proven otherwise - that the guy has integrity. This Daniel Fox character, on the other hand...

I know neither one of those guys personnaly.
Hard disagree. He lies about himself constantly. I suspect he lies about others as well. I will also say that Daniel Fox has categorically denied many of Pundit's charges. The foum I used to own used the same software he is using for therpgshite. Posting to a user's account, resetting the password, taking control of the account, etc., just before banning it, all are easy using the SMF software. I've also noticed that while people have made claims about certain posts from Daniel's IP there, they've never posted screenshots. Again, sus. Just knowing what I know about that software. I may be wrong, I admit, but it seems weird to me that you wouldn't just SHOW THE PROOF if you have it.

I'm usually of the opinion that there are two sides to every story, and then there's the truth. The whole Fox-Pundit sitch is probably no different IMO.
Jennifer has been in self-promotion mode since he was Nisarg.
He's still Nisarg. Fun fact: rpgpundit.com redirects to his "Swami Nisarg" YouTube channel.
Yeah, I've always found the combination of casting himself as the guy on the ramparts while keeping his identity a secret to be silly. I understand what you are saying. At the same time, I feel the correct response is to not take him seriously, not to invade his privacy.
I agree, but if you have posted your own info in public forums, you can't really expect that no one will see or repeat it. Not saying it's nice to do so.
 
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Yeah, I've always found the combination of casting himself as the guy on the ramparts while keeping his identity a secret to be silly. I understand what you are saying. At the same time, I feel the correct response is to not take him seriously, not to invade his privacy.
Yeah, if people want to use it to take a pop I'd suggest that the correct way to do so is to mock the contradiction between that and his self proclaimed hard man image.

The whole "publicly available" thing feels like a red herring. I might, if I really put my mind to it, be able to find someone's phone number and a photo of their house. Actually doing so, let alone posting it, is still pretty creepy.
 
Yeah, if people want to use it to take a pop I'd suggest that the correct way to do so is to mock the contradiction between that and his self proclaimed hard man image.

The whole "publicly available" thing feels like a red herring. I might, if I really put my mind to it, be able to find someone's phone number and a photo of their house. Actually doing so, let alone posting it, is still pretty creepy.
Totes agree.
 
Bottom line for me is if people want to keep their real identity private, especially in this day and age, folks should respect that. There are lots of reasons around personal physical safety people make such requests (even when information about them is available). There are professional reasons as well (and professional reasons I think matter because people can lose their ability to feed themselves and keep a roof over their head).

Also worth pointing out, Gringre is basically stealth doxxing pundit in this whole discussion.
 
Also I want to say something about Daniel Fox and this is the only time ever I am going to directly say anything about him: when that guy went after me, not only did it have a profound psychological effect on me. It impacted my family life, my personal life, made it hard to find work (and I mean work outside of the RPG world). I am still dealing with the way he twisted facts to suggest things that weren't true and rely on the game of twitter telephone to do the rest of his bidding. All so he could get revenge for an exchange we had here and so he could promote himself. That said, I think Flames of Freedom is fine if people want to play that. Richard Iorio is a good person and great historian in my opinion and lots of other people worked hard on that game. So I have no desire to see that project get smeared over Fox (plus I was a major fan of Colonial Gothic and wrote an adventure for it). But the stuff Fox gets away with. Is crazy. And I have personally been on the receiving end of it. And I promise you, there are real world consequences for people over his shenanigans. I basically have mostly dropped out of public view over it. And I was suicidal for a time. Not trying to create drama. But if Gringr is going to invoke Pundit and speak for Fox, I feel I need to express this here. Last time I ever address this issue
 
Bottom line for me is if people want to keep their real identity private, especially in this day and age, folks should respect that. There are lots of reasons around personal physical safety people make such requests (even when information about them is available). There are professional reasons as well (and professional reasons I think matter because people can lose their ability to feed themselves and keep a roof over their head).

Also worth pointing out, Gringre is basically stealth doxxing pundit in this whole discussion.
Horse pucky. Pointing out that he crossed the streams on his Pundit persona and Nisarg schtick is not "stealth doxxing". I'm not the one who bought the URL or redirected it there. Hell, I'm not even the one who mentioned Nisarg in the first place. That's no more "doxxing" than typing "pizzahut.com" into your browser's address bar.

As far as what happened to you, I am sorry. You seem like a decent person, who shouldn't have had to go through that.
 
On itch.io, creators will often have "hardship copies" available. Sometimes they will add a hardship copy (or more than one) to the kitty whenever someone buys a copy. That's a pretty cool system, IMO.
 
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