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Found two hacks that could be worth a look on Drive-through: Offworlders and Rust Hulks. Though they're more about space haulers jumping between stations than properly living on a space station like Citizen Sleeper does. And they don't seem to present any artificial/replicant character options, though I could be wrong here.

Is it possible that Scum & Villany have something related to it? I never actually played it but it seems worth a look too.

Another one that I feel could give a great hack is The Spire: The City must Fall - just re-skin the City to a space station, and it's high elfs and dark elfs to corp suits and wage slaves respectivelly, and we are halfway through.
 
Found two hacks that could be worth a look on Drive-through: Offworlders and Rust Hulks. Though they're more about space haulers jumping between stations than properly living on a space station like Citizen Sleeper does. And they don't seem to present any artificial/replicant character options, though I could be wrong here.

Is it possible that Scum & Villany have something related to it? I never actually played it but it seems worth a look too.

Another one that I feel could give a great hack is The Spire: The City must Fall - just re-skin the City to a space station, and it's high elfs and dark elfs to corp suits and wage slaves respectivelly, and we are halfway through.

Offworlders is really good but more inspired by Traveller.

We discuss it a bit here:

 
Thanks Voros Voros ! Offworlders looks neat.

This talk reminded of an old story(ish) game called Freemarket, that was about life in a space station. But I think the similarities ends there, as that game was super positive and good-vibes.
 
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This talk reminded of an old story(ish) game called Freemarket, that was about life in a space station. But I think the similarities ends there, as that game was super positive and good-vibes.
Freemarket is an interesting look at how post-scarcity societies might function. I bought the pdf because that sort of thing is my jam but was disappointed that it was incomplete. It needs a bunch of cards and tokens that were strangely not provided. It was like buying a board game and all they gave me was the instruction booklet with no means to print the missing pieces. Still sad about this as I really want to play!

Edit: I am taking another look at my Freemarket material and it looks like I have a template to print the cards. I will dig around to see if I can make this work
 
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Freemarket is an interesting look at how post-scarcity societies might function. I bought the pdf because that sort of thing is my jam but was disappointed that it was incomplete. It needs a bunch of cards and tokens that were strangely not provided. It was like buying a board game and all they gave me was the instruction booklet with no means to print the missing pieces. Still sad about this as I really want to play!

Edit: I am taking another look at my Freemarket material and it looks like I have a template to print the cards. I will dig around to see if I can make this work
I had the Freemarket box at some point but I ended up selling it due to lack of interest from my groups. A shame, the game seemed cool and the box was full of pretty stuff.

If you manage to play it, lemme know how it goes.
 
Interesting article by Mr. Lumpley.



A normal rpg describes objects and entities in some detail. It works by comparing their qualities, relatively statically. It accumulates outcomes to their basic detriment and benefit, along those same axes of comparison.

In Apocalypse World, more than statting up the characters in the game, you stat up the actions they take!

So What?

Now, this is all fine: two models, somewhat overlapping, somewhat different, in ways interchangeable or translatable into each other, each offering its own angle on the problems of rpg design. So what?

So what, is: if you're playing a game for the fiction it creates — a big if! — but if you are, these two models also represent two different approaches to analyzing and synthesizing fiction.

A normal rpg conceives fiction in terms of characters with qualities you can compare, to their advantage and disadvantage. Apocalypse World conceives fiction in terms of characters who do things.

Indeed, I find PbtA games have a certain "kinetic" quality to them that corroborates what he says. In our games, we focus more on what PCs are doing than what their qualities are, in a sense.
 
Interesting article by Mr. Lumpley.





Indeed, I find PbtA games have a certain "kinetic" quality to them that corroborates what he says. In our games, we focus more on what PCs are doing than what their qualities are, in a sense.
I'd argue that these two approaches are both deficient by themselves, though... PCs are better or worse at certain things, and this allows them to be better or worse at certain actions:gooseshades:.

Besides, all skill-based systems focus on what the characters do, in a way, and not just "qualities". All skills are, after all, about things that those characters do. They might do some things differently during the game, compared to how they used to do them before the game started, but they do them with the expertise they've acquired so far in their lifepaths...:shade:
Qualities are but a starting point:thumbsup:.

And conversely, PCs in PbtA games are better or worse at certain activities. All the "common Moves", when cross-referenced with the Attributes, give you exactly that as a result::honkhonk:!
 
I'd argue that these two approaches are both deficient by themselves, though... PCs are better or worse at certain things, and this allows them to be better or worse at certain actions:gooseshades:.

Besides, all skill-based systems focus on what the characters do, in a way, and not just "qualities". All skills are, after all, about things that those characters do. They might do some things differently during the game, compared to how they used to do them before the game started, but they do them with the expertise they've acquired so far in their lifepaths...:shade:
Qualities are but a starting point:thumbsup:.

And conversely, PCs in PbtA games are better or worse at certain activities. All the "common Moves", when cross-referenced with the Attributes, give you exactly that as a result::honkhonk:!
When I read your response it feels to me like you might not have really grokked the article in question. I find the first sentence of your reply somewhat muddy as well. I think you're actually sort of proving the point of the article without realizing it though. At its most basic the difference is between what a PC is and has on the one hand and what the PC does on the other. Obviously there is going to be overlap and similarity in terms of affect and results as we're talking about RPGs in both cases.

This is all going to be a little bit fuzzy at best because that series of articles is talking about design precepts and design goals more than it is any particular instance of those realized in a specific game. So something like PbtA as design theory versus specific PbtA games.
 
When I read your response it feels to me like you might not have really grokked the article in question.
You're more right than you realize yourself - the article didn't want to load, so I was just answering the text of the post here:thumbsup:!

It loaded now, so I'm going to check what I've missed...:gooseshades:
 
You're more right than you realize yourself - the article didn't want to load, so I was just answering the text of the post here:thumbsup:!

It loaded now, so I'm going to check what I've missed...:gooseshades:
That makes a lot more sense. :grin:
 
That makes a lot more sense. :grin:
Thanks:smile:.

But after reading it now...I'm not sure how it's so different. Obviously if you have a crowbar, "you can commit violence in some ways but not others".
How is that different from Crowbar: Hook, Bash TN 7, BN+1 Blunt, BN+0 Piercing? Those are just the stats of the crowbar in Blade of the Iron Throne.
That's why I said you can - indeed, you should, IME - keep both in account!

I mean, you're going to be better or worse at some things. Every action you're good at, is because of your qualities. Conversely, being fast makes you better at some actions, like taking the initiative, and doesn't help one bit for other actions (like persuading people)...:wink:
IME, experienced players think at what avenues for action your qualities facilitate, and prefer said actions whenever they would be advantageous.
How is that different to a PbtA Battlebabe focusing on battles more and letting the Angel heal her allies after the battle?

So, IMO, it might be a different approach, but it should ideally lead to the same place.
 
Thanks:smile:.

So, IMO, it might be a different approach, but it should ideally lead to the same place.
I guess how much I agree depends on what you think that place is. The crowbar is actually a good example. A lo of games spend a lot of ink giving weapons all those stats and mods. That's the 'stuff' method - it's focused on things, so combat for example is heavily influenced by what gear a character has and the game in question are often to some significant extent going to be focused on getting better stuff. Of course some of the combat widgets come from the character too, but it's approached in a similar way. The action approach puts the emphasis on what the character can do and the equipment and other stuff takes a back seat. There's no better or worse implied there, it's just two different ways to look at RPG play that allow for two somewhat different approaches to RPG design.
 
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I agree with Fenris-77 Fenris-77 . And I think the quality talked about extends to PbtA-adjacents like Blades and Spire. I wanted to say Trophy but can't remember if it's OSR side is stronger than it's PbtA side in this.
 
I agree with Fenris-77 Fenris-77 . And I think the quality talked about extends to PbtA-adjacents like Blades and Spire. I wanted to say Trophy but can't remember if it's OSR side is stronger than it's PbtA side in this.
Trophy has some of this, if only because the equipment system is so light. Essentially just a word and at best a short mechanical effect like armour. It's much more driven by Hunt and Combat rolls. I agree about Blades and Spire. I was reading Spire just yesterday and thinking about how much Blades DNA was in there.
 
hawkeyefan hawkeyefan , what is that Dungeon World hack about a clan at the top of a hill again?

Do you think it would be a nice fit for a Runequest inspired, King of Dragon Pass game?


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hawkeyefan hawkeyefan , what is that Dungeon World hack about a clan at the top of a hill again?

Do you think it would be a nice fit for a Runequest inspired, King of Dragon Pass game?


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Stonetop.

I’ve been running a bi-weekly game for almost a year now I think, and previously played a weekly game for a year. It’s a solid take on PbtA and overall an improvement on Dungeon World.

I’m not familiar with King of Dragon Pass, but based solely on the image you shared, and the things I infer from it, I’d say it’s very likely a good fit.
 
Stonetop.

I’ve been running a bi-weekly game for almost a year now I think, and previously played a weekly game for a year. It’s a solid take on PbtA and overall an improvement on Dungeon World.

I’m not familiar with King of Dragon Pass, but based solely on the image you shared, and the things I infer from it, I’d say it’s very likely a good fit.
Do you think it could be hacked for a Runequest/Glorantha game?

Perhaps just a matter of adapting playbooks to religious splats?
 
Do you think it could be hacked for a Runequest/Glorantha game?

Perhaps just a matter of adapting playbooks to religious splats?

I would think so. There are a few playbooks that are divinely themed. The Blessed is a kind of nature cleric or druid, a follower of Danu. The Lightbearer is a priest of the sun and light and worships Helior. The Judge is an arbiter of justice, law, and civilization and his goddess is Aratis.

The other two gods that may come up are Tor, the god of storms and thunder, and the Lady of Crows, the goddess of death. One of the options for the Heavy playbook involves being blessed/marked by Tor. The Lady of Crows makes an appearance if a PC is ever at Death's Door (meaning they've hit 0 hit points and need to make a roll to see if they live or die).

So they're generic enough to be repurposed pretty easily. However, my familiarity with Glorantha is minimal at best, so I couldn't say which deities would be the likely analogues. I'd be surprised if there wasn't something fitting, though.
 
I would think so. There are a few playbooks that are divinely themed. The Blessed is a kind of nature cleric or druid, a follower of Danu. The Lightbearer is a priest of the sun and light and worships Helior. The Judge is an arbiter of justice, law, and civilization and his goddess is Aratis.

The other two gods that may come up are Tor, the god of storms and thunder, and the Lady of Crows, the goddess of death. One of the options for the Heavy playbook involves being blessed/marked by Tor. The Lady of Crows makes an appearance if a PC is ever at Death's Door (meaning they've hit 0 hit points and need to make a roll to see if they live or die).

So they're generic enough to be repurposed pretty easily. However, my familiarity with Glorantha is minimal at best, so I couldn't say which deities would be the likely analogues. I'd be surprised if there wasn't something fitting, though.
Sounds like respectively: Aldrya (or the Lady of the Wild), Yelm or Yelmalio, Lhankhor Mhy, Orlanth, Humakt (lightly gender-swapped, but not a highly gendered deity anyway) or maybe one of the "dark earth" goddesses, such as Ty Kora Tek depending how that PB works (I'm not familiar with it myself), off the top of my head.

Do you think it could be hacked for a Runequest/Glorantha game?

Perhaps just a matter of adapting playbooks to religious splats?
Bascally! Simon Hibbs did some work on a PbtA port to Glorantha, you could look at that for inspiration too.
 
My only experience with PbtA is Avatar. I purchased it because my son loves the show and saw the boxed set in Target and thought the idea of being able to do cool stuff to his own beat, as it were, would be super cool.

Unfortunately, there was a disconnect from what he would want from the system and what the system provided, much akin to the difference between what you get with film critics and everyday Jo's when reviewing movies. He wanted to do martial arts and bend elements, but the system glossed over that and wanted to dive into deeper themes.

Perhaps not the best introduction to the system. Suffice to say that he didn't want to play it and it was a wasted $25. (I was only interested in the system, not the setting.)
 
The design in Avatar is somewhat a double edged sword in that it highlights some of the best features of PbtA, but the flipside is that it can be unforgiving on those who don’t want to play a game like the show. I can see how this can be tough for less experienced RPGers who will struggle exploring deep themes and relationships.
 
My only experience with PbtA is Avatar. I purchased it because my son loves the show and saw the boxed set in Target and thought the idea of being able to do cool stuff to his own beat, as it were, would be super cool.

Unfortunately, there was a disconnect from what he would want from the system and what the system provided, much akin to the difference between what you get with film critics and everyday Jo's when reviewing movies. He wanted to do martial arts and bend elements, but the system glossed over that and wanted to dive into deeper themes.

Perhaps not the best introduction to the system. Suffice to say that he didn't want to play it and it was a wasted $25. (I was only interested in the system, not the setting.)
I can see that. I think it’s one of the best PBTA games but like every game, it has flaws.
 
I can see that. I think it’s one of the best PBTA games but like every game, it has flaws.

Totally. I can see that, but thus far its my own experience and one that was a shared "womp". If I liked the setting more, I might have continued to explore the game.

As it stands, I can think of some really cool uses for the game (for work). In short, it's all good.
 
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