PREDATION - new Monte Cook Cypher RPG

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Monte Cook put out a RPG about shooting dinosaurs with automatic weapons. And other stuff, but I'm mostly fixated on the hunting dinos part.

Here's the link on DriveThru
http://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/214180/Predation

It's clearly inspired by that failed TV show from a few years ago called TERRA NOVA
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terra_Nova_(TV_series)

For me, I am barfy because FUCK I have been toying around with the same damn ideas. I was flipping through DriveThru when I bumped into Predation and went WTF. But the blurb itself sounds really fun.

Anyone here play the Cypher system?

Anyone here try out Predation?
 
I played Numenera only once and barely got to roll any dice (a session that was mostly roleplaying, little conflict), so I never really got to try the system.

Which is a pity as I find its character creation gimmick a ton of fun.

And hey, the setting pitch actually looks intriguing.
 
Looks like it was written by Shanna Germain rather than Monte.
 
I've played a few sessions of Numenera and the Strange. I've read some of the Cypher system book.

I personally find the class structure to be pretty artificial and very constrained - even more so than D&D in my mind. I would call it a system for advanced role players, despite its simplicity. It relies heavily on your imagination and initiative to define things. If you are lacking in those areas, there will not be a lot of things to hang your hat on.

From the GM side it's quite easy - pick a target number and that covers most everything. You can focus on scenery a bunch. Very little overhead to deal with.

I found their intrusion mechanic, previous to the Cypher system book, to be adversarial and ill defined. The name itself promoted confrontation, and the metrics for what made a good intrusion were highly subjective. My go to comparison was Cortex Plus, where a complication has a die size - its effect is quite well defined, even if it's flavor is large. "Only a little genicide" could be a thing. The Cypher book helped some, as I found they finally gave enough advice on it.

One complaint I've heard of Numenera is that the setting doesn't support what it purports to be - a setting about exploration. I can say this is somewhat true. Huge combat section, nothing on what exploration means. Very little to support that.

I think the cyphers themselves are a gimmick, and easily ignored. In some settings they are.

My feeling is that Numenera is an alpha and the Strange is a beta, both with worlds wrapped around them. They've clearly learned a lot as they've gone through it.
 
Looks like it was written by Shanna Germain rather than Monte.

You're right! She's also an award winning erotica writer.

I like the Numenera setting and am pretty deeply invested in it, but I ultimately never could get past my distaste for the Cypher system. So I wasn't eager get involved in another setting whose system I would lament.

What's lamentable about the system?

What's the draw of the Numenera setting?
 
What's lamentable about the system?

For me, it's mainly the attribute/resolution system. Not too keen on systems that have you spend points from you attributes to be good at the attribute, not am I keen on having damage and other resource pools being the same.

It also conflates short term "bennies" with long term XP, but that's easier to house rule around.

What's the draw of the Numenera setting?

I've always had a taste for far future fantasy a la Vance and Clark Ashton Smith, and conflating that with PA/weird future tropes works for me.
 
Hm I like the idea very much but I don't want to spend a fortune on the Cypher system core book. Numenera cost me a lot already so far (even though most of it I got used).
 
I'm not clicking that link. Before you know it my e-mail will be spammed with dino-porn products from Amazon at reasonable prices!

Tyrana-saurus with Rex!

Wanking with Dinosaurs

10 000 Years AC/DC
 
I'm buying this thing as soon as I can save enough money from my paper route.*

I want it known for the record that I'm an unofficial Cypher System fanboi, and I'm not ashamed of that fact.

* Damn you, Steam sale!
 
I want it known for the record that I'm an unofficial Cypher System fanboi, and I'm not ashamed of that fact.

I've been wanting to try it for a while. Keeps eluding us. Even considered a Day After Ragnarok conversion at the height of my SW burnout.

What do you like about it? And what have you played/ran with it?

* Damn you, Steam sale!

What did you get? I got two games I've been meaning to pick up since forever — Darkest Dungeon and Jotun.
 
What do you like about it? And what have you played/ran with it?.

I played in a few Numenera games, and haven't run it yet. So I don't have extensive experience with the system.

It's like Savage Worlds for me. Both systems hooked me at the same time. Both kinda resonated with me, and captured my interest, despite my lack of experience. And like SW, I'm in the Acquire / Read / Assimilate portion of my game preparation.

I plan on running a Gods of the Fall game as soon as I get this operational.

What I like:

Short answer: most everything. The whole damn system and all the settings I've read so far just jam for me.

Long answer:

I think CS is a lot like Fate; some people really like it, and others not so much. I don't like Fate, though I respect the system for its innovation and ease of use. I just find it far too narrative for my tastes.

Semi-narrative

CS is a fairly narrative system. More narrative than SW, but less so than Fate. Character creation is actually fairly structured, compared to Fate's more freeform approach. It hits a sweet spot for me in terms of freeform vs. structure. Players who like medium or higher crunch aren't going to like CS.

Innovative

Stat pools double as hit points. GM intrusions. Only the players roll dice. This kinda thing. I see a lot of bitching about this on THE GREAT PURPLE SITE. Most of them don't seem to really like these aspects of the game. Me? I'm like: "THiS IS FREAKING AWESOME!!!"

Only players rolling dice is awesome. Anything that spares me time as the GM is good. I like.

Stat pools as hit points is awesome. It's new, different, and interesting to me. I think this brings some very interesting tactical elements to the table. I also like.

GM intrusions is awesome. I see a lot of bitching about this. And I'm like, "Why?". It's a game mechanic that supports the GM in doing what'd he be doing anyway. It's also a soft, mechanical method by which a GM can get his players back on track and get the game moving. I like. It also allows the PCs to override these GM shenanigans with XP, which I also like. Anything that give the GM more options for influencing his game, and the PCs more power over their own stories, is awesome.

I'm a A B, that Cs

Character creation is based on the simple formula of: "I am an Adjective Noun that Verbs". From this you pick your type (class), descriptor (what kind of class), and focus (cool tricks). Simple, simple, simple.

What CS does here is it structurally forces the players to begin their character creation process from a concept, and build on that. In other games I've been in, that rarely happens. My players scour the books looking for chunks of character options, put them together, then slap a half-assed concept on top of that as an afterthought.

With this, I can tell them to come up with a concept based on the above structure, and then find the character options that are the best fit. Alter as needed, and BAM! You're done.

It's fast

Fast to prepare and fast to play. I did some testing with this a few weeks ago, and I found I could prep and do combat simulations faster than Savage Worlds. It's comparable to GenreDiversion 3E, which is a light system. I like a lot.

Settings

The settings for CS sing for me. Each one has been a treat to read. If I get bored with a setting book, I know I'm in the wrong place. Haven't had that problem with CS.

Numenera is sci-fi / fantasy hybrid with epic weirdness done right.

The Strange is good, not as good as Numenera, but still good. As a setting, it allows me to genre/world hop my players from world to world with ease.

I love Gods of the Fall. It provides rules for demigod-level play and is very similar in mechanical scale and tone to Godbound. Except GOF is dark. I mean, both literally and thematically dark. Half the game world in permanent darkness, and makes Godbound's Arcem look like downtown Los Angeles.

I think that's about it. Hope is was helpful.

EDIT:

What did you get? I got two games I've been meaning to pick up since forever — Darkest Dungeon and Jotun.

Ooh! I want DD! That looks cool.

I didn't get anything for myself. I bought a bunch of point-and-click games for a friend of mine.

I did hit up GOG's Summer sale, though, and picked up Civ 3 and 4. Just to round out my Civ collection and sustain my obsession with TBS games.
 
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Oh. I forgot to add...

Cyphers

Cyphers are freaking awesome!

Besides being a kinda neat, mechanical element in the game, it does something really cool.

I eliminates power gaming.

Yeah. You heard me.

I have powergame tendances. myself. I often examine any game I'm prepping for from that perspective. It took me a while to figure it out, but when I finally did, I was like, "Woot!"

The real, game-changing, DOT attack, one-shot kills, insta-figure-it-out powers...they all come from cyphers, not from character options.

The big guns are in the cyphers, which are plentiful, but controlled by the GM. If you want a powergamer design, stat your character to carry as many cyphers as possible. Even then, it's not game-breaking. This means players can build fun concepts rather than worrying about competing with the min-maxers.
 
It always makes me happy to see someone articulating what they like about game. :smile:

CS is a fairly narrative system.

Yeah, that's what is most immediately evident from your rundown. :smile:

I'm generally a very trad gamer but our group has taken to PbtA with gusto lately, and I have found both games we've played (Apocalypse World and Spirit of '77) very immersive.

Only players rolling dice is awesome. Anything that spares me time as the GM is good. I like.

Indifferent about this. To be honest, as a GM, I enjoy rolling dice.

Stat pools as hit points is awesome. It's new, different, and interesting to me. I think this brings some very interesting tactical elements to the table. I also like.

I like the idea, and I like it that they allow for distinction between innate aptitude (Edge) and effort.

GM intrusions is awesome. I see a lot of bitching about this. And I'm like, "Why?". It's a game mechanic that supports the GM in doing what'd he be doing anyway. It's also a soft, mechanical method by which a GM can get his players back on track and get the game moving. I like. It also allows the PCs to override these GM shenanigans with XP, which I also like. Anything that give the GM more options for influencing his game, and the PCs more power over their own stories, is awesome.

Yeah, this strikes me as the most immersion-breaking, author-stance mechanic in the ruleset — not the intrusion itself but the fact that the PC can buy his or her way out with XP. Whether it's going to be a dealbreaker or not, well, I guess I'll only know in actual play.

I'm a A B, that Cs

No question there. Love this. I even downloaded the character generator and create characters just for kicks. And to be honest I'm kind of bitter I won't get to play my Learned Nano who Talks to Machines, my Doomed Glaive who Consorts With The Dead or my Vengeful Jack who Fights With Panache. ;)

Fast to prepare and fast to play. I did some testing with this a few weeks ago, and I found I could prep and do combat simulations faster than Savage Worlds.

No contest there either. Love the minimalist NPCs.

Numenera is sci-fi / fantasy hybrid with epic weirdness done right.

I admit I was initially underwhelmed by the setting as presented in core, but the Ninth World Guidebook and the Into The ___ series do have some interesting stuff. I wonder what Into The Beyond will look like.

The Strange is good, not as good as Numenera, but still good. As a setting, it allows me to genre/world hop my players from world to world with ease.

Dunno, the dimensions (recursions?) in the core book look super meh.

I love Gods of the Fall. It provides rules for demigod-level play and is very similar in mechanical scale and tone to Godbound. Except GOF is dark. I mean, both literally and thematically dark. Half the game world in permanent darkness, and makes Godbound's Arcem look like downtown Los Angeles.

How does it handle mortal vs. divine scales of power, and what can I mine from it for Godbound?

Hope is was helpful.

It was! Helped me figure out some things about Cypher. :smile:

Cyphers are freaking awesome!

How are they justified in-setting outside Numenera? (I own The Strange but don't recall how they did it)
 
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I'm generally a very trad gamer but our group has taken to PbtA with gusto lately, and I have found both games we've played (Apocalypse World and Spirit of '77) very immersive.
Sometimes you worry me friend. :grin:
 
Sometimes you worry me friend. :grin:

Lemme tell you a little secret: it's mostly a trad RPG. The narrative bits are less obtrusive than FATE's or Heroquest's.

Sure, it's got the whole "conflict resolution" thing where you assume an authorial stance at every roll (we like negotiating these stakes before each roll, but it can be done after), but once that's settled we slip immediately back in character.

It's no more disruptive than, say, establishing everyone's precise position in a D&D3 combat to see who's flanked and who gets an AoO to the face.
 
Lemme tell you a little secret: it's mostly a trad RPG. The narrative bits are less obtrusive than FATE's or Heroquest's.
Oh I know. Mostly is the part that makes the Kruge's teeth itch. :grin:

Sure, it's got the whole "conflict resolution" thing where you assume an authorial stance at every roll (we like negotiating these stakes before each roll, but it can be done after), but once that's settled we slip immediately back in character.
Right, until you slip back out again...

It's no more disruptive than, say, establishing everyone's precise position in a D&D3 combat to see who's flanked and who gets an AoO to the face.
Depends on how you handle it. If people stay in character and just move to flank or move behind, etc, there's nothing about that their character wouldn't be doing for the exact same reasons. 3e didn't have all of 4e's dissociated powers that forced you OOC for tactical considerations. It did have some though, and if you choose to play 3e like Chess, or a tactical skirmish wargame, then yeah it's gonna be just as much OOC, if not more than an Xworld game.

The difference to me is that I can play 3e without that OOC tactical element, you can't really play some versions of xworld without the OOC.

But, I was just hackin' on ya anyway. :grin:

2d20 and Cypher...we'll have to keep an eye on you.
FATE...we're staging an intervention. :cool:
 
The difference to me is that I can play 3e without that OOC tactical element, you can't really play some versions of xworld without the OOC.

That's mostly true, but my point is, in my experience, that you can "switch" momentarily into an authorial (or bird's-eye tactical) POV and back into character without much fuss.

Though I can see how some people might have a hard time doing so, and how this might be a dealbreaker.

But, I was just hackin' on ya anyway. :grin:

I know. :smile:

2d20 and Cypher...we'll have to keep an eye on you.
FATE...we're staging an intervention. :cool:

I don't do 2d20, that's your kink. And I did try FATE once but... let's say I didn't inhale. ;)
 
Probably one of my favourite aspects of Cypher System games (as a GM, anyway) are the NPC and monster rules. You can just give them a rating from 1 to 10. For any abilities that they're good at, they count as one or two levels higher (and the opposite for areas that they're weak in). Since only players roll dice, any rolls to interact with these beings uses the same DC, whether it is to socially manipulate them, hit them with a blaster or to dodge their acidic vomit spray.

Their DC number also dictates their HP (multiply the DC number by three, which is the same target number for all of those rolls that I mentioned earlier).

Beautifully elegant, in my opinion. I wish 5e was that streamlined, to be honest.
 
It always makes me happy to see someone articulating what they like about game. :smile:

Not sure if I'm articulating, or spewing a rainbow-colored stream of consciousness lovefest for the game. Because honestly, I write like a methhead with with ADHD who can't spell.

But I freaking love this game so far. I'm in the prep phase for a GOTF campaign, and this crazy easy.

Two things I don't like about the system, which may be incorrect as I've not run it yet, is:

(A) Combat strikes me as being almost boring in that it seems pretty macro; there isn't much in the way of tactical options.

(B) XP is mostly gained through exploration. I can see this as being a potential speed bump in player advancement. Need to think and consider possible modifications.

These weren't really an issue in the game I played. But I don't have a lot of experience, so take all of this with a grain of salt.

How does it handle mortal vs. divine scales of power, and what can I mine from it for Godbound?

GB seems to be on a higher scale of power than GOTF. In both games, characters are fledgling badass gods. However, GB has hardwired systems that allow the godbound to affect the environment in large-scale, dramatic ways (miracles and dominion). As far as I can see, GOTF character's don't have this option.

It's also a lot more dangerous for starting godlings. Yeah, Arcem is deadly as hell, but in GOTF, nobody believes in gods anymore and the only real civilized kingdom has their own army of bad guys who seek and destroy anything remotely divine. It's a lot like Exalted in that you're going into the game hot...except if Exalted's setting was evil and wanted your characters dead.

One thing GOTF has over GB though is divine obligations -- feats each god has to achieve in order to reach the next tier, even if they've got the XP to do so (as with dominion points for character advancement in GB).

They start off easy, such as actually choosing your divine dominion at tier 2 (you can put this off at tier 1), then get harder as you progress, such as performing some epic task, converting believers (a lot harder to do in GOTF compared to GB), and so on. This is something I'd like to try out in my next GB game.

How are they justified in-setting outside Numenera? (I own The Strange but don't recall how they did it)

They're changed thematically depending on the setting. In Numenera, they're weird magi-tech gizmos. In GOTF, they're magical items, rare substances (a special herb or the heart of the monster you just killed), etc. etc. The items change in nature if moved from one world to another, so magical wand in GOTF become techo-magical gizmo in Numenera. Because recursions.
 
No, really. You got me in the mood to look at Cypher and/or Numenera again. I might use it if I gather the courage to run an online game.
 
No, really. You got me in the mood to look at Cypher and/or Numenera again. I might use it if I gather the courage to run an online game.

Wait? I was actually helpful?

On the Web?!

*Look of shock*

This has never happened to me before!

Is this even real life?

:grin:

Seriously, glad I could help. :smile:
 
As an aside, I impulse-bought the Cypher system core book from an awesome used game store here in Gatineau.

I already own and love Numenera, but I admit that I like what I see in Cypher core. There's tons of useful stuff in there even if you want to stick with the former.

I cringed at the impulse purchase, but I don't regret getting this book. Shrug.
 
The basic concept reminds me of the Cadillacs & Dinosaurs RPG

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noman said:
Innovative

Stat pools double as hit points. GM intrusions. Only the players roll dice. This kinda thing. I see a lot of bitching about this on THE GREAT PURPLE SITE. Most of them don't seem to really like these aspects of the game. Me? I'm like: "THiS IS FREAKING AWESOME!!!"

Only players rolling dice is awesome. Anything that spares me time as the GM is good. I like.

Stat pools as hit points is awesome. It's new, different, and interesting to me. I think this brings some very interesting tactical elements to the table. I also like.

GM intrusions is awesome. I see a lot of bitching about this. And I'm like, "Why?". It's a game mechanic that supports the GM in doing what'd he be doing anyway. It's also a soft, mechanical method by which a GM can get his players back on track and get the game moving. I like. It also allows the PCs to override these GM shenanigans with XP, which I also like. Anything that give the GM more options for influencing his game, and the PCs more power over their own stories, is awesome.

Stats as hit points was something I liked in the Doctor Who RPG. "Only Players Roll" and "GM Intrusions" both sound like elements taken from Dungeonworld.
 
Stats as hit points was something I liked in the Doctor Who RPG. "Only Players Roll" and "GM Intrusions" both sound like elements taken from Dungeonworld.

I'm not familiar with either game system, so I can't really compare them. I'm not surprised that there'd be cross-pollination between games (like fiction). When I refer to Cypher System as being 'innovative', I mean it's not like anything my players or I have encountered before.

If anyone's interested, Bundle of Holding is doing two Numenera bundles. Here and here.
 
I like the Numenera setting and am pretty deeply invested in it, but I ultimately never could get past my distaste for the Cypher system. So I wasn't eager get involved in another setting whose system I would lament.
This is my feeling about most of Cook's material.

1) he has good ideas, or at least very interesting ones.
2) But his executions on those ideas are always flawed to me - which I believe are for external meta-gamey reasons (not necessarily mechanical - see below). Certainly his 3e material was horribad mechanically, but I've always found he was trying to do things that while novel in intent, tended to bog the games down.
3) The Cypher System does *nothing* for me.
 
I really like the Cypher system, it’s not my favourite but it’s a nice tidy system that I’d be happy to use to run their settings with (as opposed to converting it). Numenera and Gods of the Fall are good reads and Numenera was an absolute blast to play in as a Nano.
 
I’ll have to hand it to Cook. He has yet another “way too New School Narrative Engine House System”, but he creates a bunch of new and interesting settings to apply the system to, instead of acquiring IP after IP.
 
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This is my feeling about most of Cook's material.

1) he has good ideas, or at least very interesting ones.
2) But his executions on those ideas are always flawed to me - which I believe are for external meta-gamey reasons (not necessarily mechanical - see below). Certainly his 3e material was horribad mechanically, but I've always found he was trying to do things that while novel in intent, tended to bog the games down.
3) The Cypher System does *nothing* for me.
I bought this and I like this setting, very interesting, but I don’t like the system.
I’ll have to hand it to Cook. He has yet another “way too New School Narrative Engine House System”, but he creates a bunch of new and interesting settings to apply the system too, instead of acquiring IP after IP.

See, I loved Arcana Evolved, enough to have tinkered with porting it to Mythras, and I like the concepts of Numenera and Predation and The Strange. I have felt that he would be best left to think up crazy ideas and needed to be paired with a hard systems person. Someone who could create novel and interesting and rational mechanics. As I said above, it feels like a game for roleplayers who know each other well. I feel like this is the sort of thing he runs at his own table, but his view didn't go much past that.

Oh well, perhaps after the current batch of projects, Mythic Arcana Evolved will float to the top.
 
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I like the Numenera setting and am pretty deeply invested in it, but I ultimately never could get past my distaste for the Cypher system. So I wasn't eager get involved in another setting whose system I would lament.

Kevin Crawfords new Kickstarter/RPG "Worlds Without Number" to me at least seems like a perfect replacement for the Cypher Engine to use with the Numenara setting.​

The basic concept reminds me of the Cadillacs & Dinosaurs RPG

Damn ya beat me to it.​
 
Sorry for the thread necro, but my local game store just got copies of the core rulebook and several setting books, so I was searching on the Pub for a thread on the Cypher system and landed here. Good to see so much discussion on the system. I think I may pick up a setting book and download the free quickstart rules and see if I can avoid buying a $70 core rulebook. :grin:

The setting books look pretty neat, but I will have to decide if they get a convert to some other system or if I want to try running a Cypher System game. My crew isn't very receptive to new game systems. :sad:
 
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Sorry for the thread necro, but my local game store just got copies of the core rulebook and several setting books, so I was searching on the Pub for a thread on the Cypher system and landed here. Good to see so much discussion on the system. I think I may pick up a setting book and download the free quickstart rules and see if I can avoid buying a $70 core rulebook. :grin:

The setting books look pretty neat, but I will have to decide if they get a convert to some other system or if I want to try running a Cypher System game. My crew isn't very receptive to new game systems. :sad:
Cypher is really different and if you have traditional players the odds of bouncing hard off it are pretty high I think. Play a quick start game to advancement before buying.
 
I'm half interested in getting the Cypher System Revised Core book and the We Are All Mad book.
The cost of them prevented an impulse buy, but I've put them in my wishlist
I've not played any Cypher game, so want to see how they go at the table
Just itching to pull the trigger out of curioisity...
 
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