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Even without any sales, the Patreon is bringing in over $8000 monthly.Anyone know how Foundry is doing financially?
I would contact OBS customer service via the email on DriveThru. I’ve only ever seen people say that OBS is generally quite reasonable about stuff like this.God dammit. I just subscribed to them. In terms of sheer functionality, they absolutely blow Roll20 out of the water. This is really frustrating and a huge black mark against One Book Shelf, frankly.
Seriously, I sign up for a subscription to use a product only for them to pull the rug out from under me. It makes me feel cheated.
I am fairly certain the response to my request for a refund will be "we've already got your money. Eat shit." Not sure if $120 is worth pursuing through a chargeback that will likely result in my DriveThruRPG account getting banned.
I guess I'll be switching to Foundry VTT since I already have it and Roll20 sucks a big fat one.
Yeah I think you could easily get your money back. They're usually good people.God dammit. I just subscribed to them. In terms of sheer functionality, they absolutely blow Roll20 out of the water. This is really frustrating and a huge black mark against One Book Shelf, frankly.
Seriously, I sign up for a subscription to use a product only for them to pull the rug out from under me. It makes me feel cheated.
I am fairly certain the response to my request for a refund will be "we've already got your money. Eat shit." Not sure if $120 is worth pursuing through a chargeback that will likely result in my DriveThruRPG account getting banned.
I guess I'll be switching to Foundry VTT since I already have it and Roll20 sucks a big fat one.
Yes, my customer service experience with them is flawless.Yeah I think you could easily get your money back. They're usually good people.
They got back with my very quickly and good on them for that. I should be getting a refund within 5-7 days.Yes, my customer service experience with them is flawless.
Agreed. Roll20 you have to depend on their infrastructure, and I've had problems with that. Fantasy Grounds, you have to deal with connection issues. It's supposedly better; though I have FGU, I haven't tried again, because Foundry was just start up and worked. And that was with the added complexity of getting it on an EC2 instance (which is actually genius!)I've never used Astral, but I've used Roll20, Fantasy Grounds and Foundry.
Of the 3 I've used, if you are looking to get into one, I'd heavily suggest Foundry. It is by far the most slick and easy to use of the three.
I've been using FGU since it came out. Early on in the beta it had some issues. Now that it's put of beta I've had no problems. I'd say most of the complaints on connectivity were related to FG Classic and firewalls. Those don't seem to be an issue anymore. If I remember right FG Classic used some custom or old networking libraries from when Smiteworks bought FG. The Unity version uses modern libraries so a lot of the issues are gone.Agreed. Roll20 you have to depend on their infrastructure, and I've had problems with that. Fantasy Grounds, you have to deal with connection issues. It's supposedly better; though I have FGU, I haven't tried again, because Foundry was just start up and worked. And that was with the added complexity of getting it on an EC2 instance (which is actually genius!)
I never really liked Astral- didn't really give me a good first impression when I used it, then saw their TOC and it struck me the wrong way. They cleared it up, but by then, I was done with it.
That's fair. I'd tried it with FGC, and was grandfathered in from my ultimate license to FGU.I've been using FGU since it came out. Early on in the beta it had some issues. Now that it's put of beta I've had no problems. I'd say most of the complaints on connectivity were related to FG Classic and firewalls. Those don't seem to be an issue anymore. If I remember right FG Classic used some custom or old networking libraries from when Smiteworks bought FG. The Unity version uses modern libraries so a lot of the issues are gone.
Mythic Tabletop is the other that I want to try. It does look pretty cool, and FOSS is good. Foundry just worked though, which took my focus off of Mythic, though I did back the KS.My Saturday night group switched from Roll20 to Foundry a couple of weeks ago. Too early to say how I feel about Foundry, although it does look nicer than Roll20 and my friend that GMs really likes it.
Myself, I think that I will try Mythic Tabletop the next time I GM. It’s open source, which is a huge selling point.
They just had a successful Kickstarter, so had some cash infusion. They don't seem to have ramped up from that, however.Anyone following Mythic Table? I just signed into it today. Probably about the same as Owlbear Rodeo in function, but they appear to be moving forward with some extra bells and whistles, albeit at a slow pace.
This.I would be surprised if this is the last we’ve seen of OBS in the VTT segment.
With the official purchase of D&D Beyond by WoTC and the D&D Beyond roadmap already hinting at a full VTT, I'm not surprised that some of the players in the space are looking to see if it's still worth the investment.
My entirely uneducated prediction is that 2025 is when D&D Beyond will hit hard on the VTT Front. Should allow plenty of time for the Former Microsoft execs to scout talent and point them in the right direction. They'll spent 2023 getting the In-person play and theater of the mind tools in order. That gives them all of 2024 to develop battlemap experience/flow of play online experience, and then they launch at some point in 2025 just as the hype of the new edition is starting to drop off. During that time I suspect they'll be horse racing different video call companies to be integrated into the experience, because the past VTT efforts have proven that it's better to just use dedicated software for that experience. My guess is that it will be Teams because of all the former Microsoft execs.Yeah. The only ones that seem safe are D&D Beyond, Roll20, Fantasy Grounds, and Foundry.
It won't kill the other VTTs. They have worked just fine before official content. FG for years had no partnership with D&D and simply made virtual rules implementations of the written rules. Far easier to do without getting sued since it's not copying text. They might have to scale down their operations but the companies going to keep running.My entirely uneducated prediction is that 2025 is when D&D Beyond will hit hard on the VTT Front. Should allow plenty of time for the Former Microsoft execs to scout talent and point them in the right direction. They'll spent 2023 getting the In-person play and theater of the mind tools in order. That gives them all of 2024 to develop battlemap experience/flow of play online experience, and then they launch at some point in 2025 just as the hype of the new edition is starting to drop off. During that time I suspect they'll be horse racing different video call companies to be integrated into the experience, because the past VTT efforts have proven that it's better to just use dedicated software for that experience. My guess is that it will be Teams because of all the former Microsoft execs.
I also guess that the upcoming VTT will be announced as part of the new edition festivities and that WoTC will not sell licensed content on the other VTT's. This is what will kill the other VTT's. If they can't get official D&D support, the majority of their player base will vanish.
There are others that are pretty safe- mostly because they're fan creations. I don't see Mythic going anywhere, and Role has a lot of support.Yeah. The only ones that seem safe are D&D Beyond, Roll20, Fantasy Grounds, and Foundry.
It won't kill the other VTTs. They have worked just fine before official content. FG for years had no partnership with D&D and simply made virtual rules implementations of the written rules. Far easier to do without getting sued since it's not copying text. They might have to scale down their operations but the companies going to keep running.
True but at this point people now have a lot of sunk cost into them. It's going to be interesting to see what a semi new edition does if it trys to cut off support for other VTTs. Do those players just stay with the 5e edition vs 5e+?But those years weren't competing against the official VTT of D&D, which will also be the sole official source of official content (In my hellscape prophecy).
There's a whole new generation of folks who've probably never been subjected to the edition treadmill, where WotC suddenly renders all of your books and paraphenalia "obsolete". I'm curious to see how they'll respond? If I had to guess, I'd say chances are they'll probably gobble it up and be excited for something new and shiny. As for the old hands who've been at it this RPG thing a long time, they very well might stick with the tried and true if the planned obsolescence is too deep.True but at this point people now have a lot of sunk cost into them. It's going to be interesting to see what a semi new edition does if it trys to cut off support for other VTTs. Do those players just stay with the 5e edition vs 5e+?
D&D 5.5 could easily be a board topic all on its own. I can't speak for new gamers but I am pretty certain people like myself who have been around the block a few times aren't going to rush out and buy a new set of $150 corebooks unless the changes warrant it. Which I doubt.There's a whole new generation of folks who've probably never been subjected to the edition treadmill, where WotC suddenly renders all of your books and paraphenalia "obsolete". I'm curious to see how they'll respond? If I had to guess, I'd say chances are they'll probably gobble it up and be excited for something new and shiny. As for the old hands who've been at it this RPG thing a long time, they very well might stick with the tried and true if the planned obsolescence is too deep.
5e has expanded beyond it's usual hard core fans and geeky people. The current market is a wider economic scope that especially for the next few years might not be able to afford a rules switch. A mishandled switch this time could be as bad as the 3.5 to 4 transitionD&D 5.5 could easily be a board topic all on its own. I can't speak for new gamers but I am pretty certain people like myself who have been around the block a few times aren't going to rush out and buy a new set of $150 corebooks unless the changes warrant it. Which I doubt.
After an initial read-through I almost never use my 5e core and expansion hardcopies, preferring to use 5e.tools for a reference. I don't have any moral qualms as I have paid for all it and am simply accessing the content in a more convenient manner since WotC does not offer pdfs.
Within a week, someone will come out with a detailed list of changes, like class tweaks. For people who don't want to repurchase, I bet it will be easy to make note of the changes relevant to their game. I never bought any of the 3.5 stuff and wasn't lost.D&D 5.5 could easily be a board topic all on its own. I can't speak for new gamers but I am pretty certain people like myself who have been around the block a few times aren't going to rush out and buy a new set of $150 corebooks unless the changes warrant it. Which I doubt.
After an initial read-through I almost never use my 5e core and expansion hardcopies, preferring to use 5e.tools for a reference. I don't have any moral qualms as I have paid for all it and am simply accessing the content in a more convenient manner since WotC does not offer pdfs.
5e has expanded beyond it's usual hard core fans and geeky people. The current market is a wider economic scope that especially for the next few years might not be able to afford a rules switch. A mishandled switch this time could be as bad as the 3.5 to 4 transition
And with VTTs as long as you don't copy the text exactly you can make and "Extension" that makes all the changes in the background.Within a week, someone will come out with a detailed list of changes, like class tweaks. For people who don't want to repurchase, I bet it will be easy to make note of the changes relevant to their game. I never bought any of the 3.5 stuff and wasn't lost.
Good points have been made by you and Stan but this is the one that is the real wildcard for me. RPG hobbyists are accustomed to edition churn and have either accepted it or developed ways to work around it. Springing this on a generation of young gamers who are quick to call out blatant cash grabs could easily blow up in WoC's face.5e has expanded beyond it's usual hard core fans and geeky people. The current market is a wider economic scope that especially for the next few years might not be able to afford a rules switch. A mishandled switch this time could be as bad as the 3.5 to 4 transition
There is no generation alive that is completely unfamiliar with edition treadmills if only because of video games. Even my 6 yr old knows about edition changes for Minecraft.Good points have been made by you and Stan but this is the one that is the real wildcard for me. RPG hobbyists are accustomed to edition churn and have either accepted it or developed ways to work around it. Springing this on a generation of young gamers who are quick to call out blatant cash grabs could easily blow up in WoC's face.
The amount of change is going to be wierd. When 2e came out I felt it was simultaneously too little and too much. The mechanics seemed mostly the same but the tone went from wild and arcane to safe to show to mom. That rubbed me the wrong way at the time and I never bought a book for 2e until long after 3e came out.D&D 5.5 could easily be a board topic all on its own. I can't speak for new gamers but I am pretty certain people like myself who have been around the block a few times aren't going to rush out and buy a new set of $150 corebooks unless the changes warrant it. Which I doubt.
After an initial read-through I almost never use my 5e core and expansion hardcopies, preferring to use 5e.tools for a reference. I don't have any moral qualms as I have paid for all it and am simply accessing the content in a more convenient manner since WotC does not offer pdfs.