R. Talasorian's Cyberpunk 2020: Any House rules you enjoy or are really tempted to employ?

Nexus

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It's a pretty solid system for what it does, pretty 'old school' I guess but okay. I'm going to run a small game with some friend just because its that year and I'm planning on using it for a Solo role-playing experiment too when I work up the nerve. Does anyone have House rules they've adopted or even just really like and might put into play that they'd like to suggest?
 

Picaroon Jack

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I can tell you my favorite solo cybernetics combo. My brother had a solo named Pike and he had this: Two cyber eyes with smart link targeting in both eyes and hands, then he had the ambidextrous chip slotted for both eyes so his eyes could operate independently. I think he had the stutter chip too that allowed him to select non-targets. Add wired reflexes and it was brutal.
 

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I used the Shadowrun idea that Netrunning happened at the same time because the human brain cannot process information faster than people in meatspace (It allowed Netrunners to play the game with the rest of the party.)
 

Nobby-W

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It's a pretty solid system for what it does, pretty 'old school' I guess but okay. I'm going to run a small game with some friend just because its that year and I'm planning on using it for a Solo role-playing experiment too when I work up the nerve. Does anyone have House rules they've adopted or even just really like and might put into play that they'd like to suggest?
I'd be tempted to nerf the combat sense the solos get as it makes them a bit over powered when they have it at 9. Basically it's the god stat for solos and combat in general.

One houserule I saw in a game I played in was a multi-classing feature. You could take up to 3 points worth of class-specific abilities from another class.
 
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Nobby-W

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I used the Shadowrun idea that Netrunning happened at the same time because the human brain cannot process information faster than people in meatspace (It allowed Netrunners to play the game with the rest of the party.)
This. I've done net runners hacking the targets security as a party is breaking into the bad guy's building and it worked quite well. I think it would also be a good use for a flashback mechanic.
 

Nexus

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I'd be tempted to nerf the combat sense the solos get as it makes them a bit over powered when they have it at 9. Basically it's the god stat for solos.

One houserule I saw in a game I played in was a multi-classing feature. You could take up to 3 points worth of class-specific abilities from another class.
Character classes are a personal sore spot with me, one of my least favorite aspects of a game if hard: set up with special abilities no one else can have, often exclusive, etc and they really rub me the wrong in modern and science fiction games. Unfortunately, they're often to ingrained into the games to easily remove.
 

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Oh! That's another thing I do. I give other certain classes Combat Sense, but they can only go up to +5 with it and it's a trade off, the cap for the special ability is still 10. Usually Cop (as most beat cops are in the middle of CZ and deal with boosted gangers.) Nomads, and if the players can convince me (and that's not hard to do, I'm a coddler GM after all) I'll also allow Medtechs and Rockers.

Just to clarify, if you're a Cop and you want Combat Sense along with your Authority, you could go +5 in both. Although you can take CS at a lower level and increase your base ability to whatever max is left over (Like CS +2 and Auth +8) until you hit 10.

I almost forgot that one, as the last CP games I remember clearly was the Trauma Team one and one that was three solos on a revenge mission, which lasted a few months (That one I remember because we did the elevator scene from the Matrix first. I think they lifted the idea from an anime? But I've never been able to find that one.)
 

Stevethulhu

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The only house rules I really bothered with was, soft armour let's a point of damage through for every 6 rolled against it. So you SP 30 guys laughing because that punk with a 1d6 Mini Gat cant hurt you just took 6 damage off the 20 shots that hit you.

And because each one is a single point, BTM doesnt reduce it.

It makes for a meaningful difference between soft and hard armour.

As for Solo loadout, I go with Skinweave, a Reflex Boost, Smartgun Link and a heavy SMG with an under barrel Mini GL. Load with Electrothermal ammo and the mini grenades that ignore armour and do half stun, half real damage. Kill most things without getting too ludicrous.
 

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It really depends on what kind of game you want to run. I've never strictly run CP2020, but I've run Interlock system pastiches.

If you want more swingy shooting, then you can make them opposed roll Firearms versus Dodge skill checks. Although somewhere out there on the intarwebs I saw a post by Tenbones where he describes how extremely dynamic the gunplay system of CP2020 is without just the static difficulty numbers and an acrobatic player character. Hopefully he'll chime in and link that.

I always found the CP2020 armor values made players ignore everything except assault rifles. A standard armor jacket provides more than enough SP to pretty much eliminate the threat of a anything but the heaviest pistol. Admittedly, the CP2020 wounding system is extremely lethal, but the armor values blunt that lethality considerably, especially since armor only degrades when penetrated. If you want less of a military arms feel, and focus more on scary handgun shootouts on dark, slick, neon lit streets, perhaps consider halving all armor values, having them degrade by 2 points for every penetrating hit and 1 point per non-penetrating hit. I'd recommend having armor degrade something like that regardless of what else you do.

Or eliminate armor altogether if you really want to make players carefully consider getting into a shootout.

If I were to run Netrunning for CP2020, I'd probably turn it into something more like a hybrid of the defense frame system in CP v1.0 and Shadowrun's node system, but with an adaptation of CP2020's rules for most everything else. I'd probably have to come up with some entirely new procedure for Tracing, which I think has a really goofy rule in CP2020. I dunno, for me the "croosword dungeon" style of 2020 just creates more ambiguity and doesn't work well unless the GM makes fortresses as simple as possible anyway.
 

Stevethulhu

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If I were to run Netrunning for CP2020, I'd probably turn it into something more like a hybrid of the defense frame system in CP v1.0 and Shadowrun's node system, but with an adaptation of CP2020's rules for most everything else. I'd probably have to come up with some entirely new procedure for Tracing, which I think has a really goofy rule in CP2020. I dunno, for me the "croosword dungeon" style of 2020 just creates more ambiguity and doesn't work well unless the GM makes fortresses as simple as possible anyway.
Oh yeah, Netrunning. Dithch the crossword puzzle grids. Just use the list of what the system has to defend it, with appropriately vanilla (Int, Ref, Interface, any other relevant skill at 4-8) operators. Simples!
 

tenbones

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The only house rules I really bothered with was, soft armour let's a point of damage through for every 6 rolled against it. So you SP 30 guys laughing because that punk with a 1d6 Mini Gat cant hurt you just took 6 damage off the 20 shots that hit you

And because each one is a single point, BTM doesnt reduce it..

It makes for a meaningful difference between soft and hard armour.
I'd have to look - I've never seen anyone Soft-Armor stack their SP that high, LOL. It's a good rule. Personally SP has never been a problem in my games because anyone walking around with that kind of armor around usually looks like they're up to no good and it puts people on notice. There are tons of ways to bypass those SP Turtle characters (which I'm sure you are well aware of) - but I like this rule.

As for Solo loadout, I go with Skinweave, a Reflex Boost, Smartgun Link and a heavy SMG with an under barrel Mini GL. Load with Electrothermal ammo and the mini grenades that ignore armour and do half stun, half real damage. Kill most things without getting too ludicrous.
Yep. That's a solid loadout. It's inherently non-obtrusive and *very* lethal. That's the most dangerous edge-runner.

10/10
 

tenbones

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Heavy armor is not that big of a deal in CP2020. Remember walking around in Metal Gear #1 may not even be legal. Not to mention assault rifles on your backs.

Depends where your game is set... security zones have to be secure to the standard that you set. And you should stick to that. Outside of those zones - sure, let the PC's do what they want. But make the world react accordingly. Some people walking around armed to the teeth are a target for specialized gangs.

I've had gangbangers spray acid-filled paintballs at my PC's covered in Metal Gear(tm) or AP-goopballs that lowered their SP and gave all bullets fired at the gooped locations AP qualities after a round of hardening. There's LOTS of ways around armor. And heavy weapon *are heavy weapons*.

Again it depends on where your PC's are adventuring. Carrying gigantic hardware where subtlety is called for should matter. If you don't enforce those social norms and let them firepower their way through everything... well you know, guns hurt. Enforce your setting, everything will work out.
 

Stevethulhu

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Heavy armor is not that big of a deal in CP2020. Remember walking around in Metal Gear #1 may not even be legal. Not to mention assault rifles on your backs.

Depends where your game is set... security zones have to be secure to the standard that you set. And you should stick to that. Outside of those zones - sure, let the PC's do what they want. But make the world react accordingly. Some people walking around armed to the teeth are a target for specialized gangs.

I've had gangbangers spray acid-filled paintballs at my PC's covered in Metal Gear(tm) or AP-goopballs that lowered their SP and gave all bullets fired at the gooped locations AP qualities after a round of hardening. There's LOTS of ways around armor. And heavy weapon *are heavy weapons*.

Again it depends on where your PC's are adventuring. Carrying gigantic hardware where subtlety is called for should matter. If you don't enforce those social norms and let them firepower their way through everything... well you know, guns hurt. Enforce your setting, everything will work out.
I tend to let players set the pace when it co.es to weapons in 2020. They want Metal Gear and M60s, they get it. Nothing is of the table, set the bar where you want.

But then, there's a Rep stat. As it creeps up, you get more and more notoriety. And you typical tactics and gear become better known. And enemies start to find ways around them both.
 

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I haven't played this game since ~1993 but I played it very heavily before then (starting from when I bought a copy of CPv1.0 at GenCon in 1988). The main house rule I remember was that I made the highest skill and stat levels (anything above a 7, IIRC) cost more in point-buy chargen because I got bored seeing nothing but min-maxed combat-optimized PCs. I think I maybe also added some sort of "critical hit to ignoren (or at least reduce) armor" rule because, again, I got bored with heavily-armored characters being effectively immune to anything less than military-grade weaponry.
 

Chris Brady

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I capped Skills at +6 (not special abilities) for beginning characters... I thought that was in the system... I'll have to break out my books...
 

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I capped Skills at +6 (not special abilities) for beginning characters... I thought that was in the system... I'll have to break out my books...
Yeah, I would have been on the path for the same. In v1.0 getting anything that high via the lifepath method in that earlier edition required serious specialization.

Most of this happened in Mekton for me. I went for a +5 cap there for starting characters. Plus, the special ability chart in CP2020 for salary seems to imply beginning characters should be in the 1-5 range.
 

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For Mekton, I made the cap +12 (for Stats and Skills in any combination), I shoulda brought it over for CP2020.
 

Stevethulhu

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I haven't played this game since ~1993 but I played it very heavily before then (starting from when I bought a copy of CPv1.0 at GenCon in 1988). The main house rule I remember was that I made the highest skill and stat levels (anything above a 7, IIRC) cost more in point-buy chargen because I got bored seeing nothing but min-maxed combat-optimized PCs. I think I maybe also added some sort of "critical hit to ignoren (or at least reduce) armor" rule because, again, I got bored with heavily-armored characters being effectively immune to anything less than military-grade weaponry.
Theres so many ways round armour that I never worried about Stopping Power.

As.for combat optimised gun bunnies, put a locked door in front of them. Or a car chase. Or someone with essential information in a bar they need to find. And watch the players suddenly reformat their approach to character creation.

Another slightly less heavy handed way to encourage diversity was the subordinate careerpackages from Interface magazine. Which were basically a secondary set of themed skills to pick from. Made your character a tad less two dimensional.
 

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Man, this thread is kind of talking me out the idea of the game, reminding me of allot of the issues I had with it at once time. LOL

I'll get a more detailed response out in a bit.
 

Stevethulhu

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Man, this thread is kind of talking me out the idea of the game, reminding me of allot of the issues I had with it at once time. LOL

I'll get a more detailed response out in a bit.
It's having the opposite effect for me. Reminding me of the fun I had with 2013 and 2020 for most of the 90s.
 

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I think... in terms of system, and particularly in terms of mechanical character detail, Interlock is just boring.

That's not to say that it's bad. But there's not much there. The only thing is just making a small set of numbers higher.

My experience is mainly with Mekton. I imagine CP2020 modifies things somewhat with Cyberware. But that still strikes me as the same issue as Mekton has: the only thing mechanically cool about the character is their equipment. Everything else is just making numbers higher.

Interlock is very much one of those "what you do in play is important" games. Character build is trivially and unsatisfyingly optimizable. The real character generation in Interlock is via Lifepath. I'm not talking about the Lifepath methods where you build your skill levels up. I'm talking about the Lifepath where you roll family, friends, enemies, vendettas, etc. I'm talking about the Lifepath that generates all those things that create drama, or more mercenarily would be considered ads/disads in point build games.

So, now that I'm really thinking about this, my advice is USE LIFEPATH. Make sure the characters have enough drama in their backgrounds to make an anime character go "whoa." Then use that shit in play. Turn that melodrama all the way up and snap the knob off. What direct experience I do have with CP2020 tells me that is the way the system and setting truly work. Once all that drama and tension is in place, the rest snaps into place near automatically.

Ultimately, Interlock is one of those systems you largely just use to eyeball shit and make a ruling. It's not really a system you truly game for effect.
 

tenbones

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I tend to let players set the pace when it co.es to weapons in 2020. They want Metal Gear and M60s, they get it. Nothing is of the table, set the bar where you want.

But then, there's a Rep stat. As it creeps up, you get more and more notoriety. And you typical tactics and gear become better known. And enemies start to find ways around them both.
Depends on the starting point of the game. If the players are on the street-level, unless they start with the necessary contacts, like real life, if they want mil-spec gear they gotta "know someone". It's inevitable that someone goes out of their way to make those contacts - which can be good adventure material in and of itself. It's fine if someone has those contacts from the start, or on their lifepath I might let them have some mil-spec keepsakes that fell off the back of a truck.

The real point for me is making that gear mean something contextually. Out in the wild - outside of "civilized" space... anything goes.
 

tenbones

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My experience is mainly with Mekton. I imagine CP2020 modifies things somewhat with Cyberware. But that still strikes me as the same issue as Mekton has: the only thing mechanically cool about the character is their equipment. Everything else is just making numbers higher.

Interlock is very much one of those "what you do in play is important" games. Character build is trivially and unsatisfyingly optimizable. The real character generation in Interlock is via Lifepath. I'm not talking about the Lifepath methods where you build your skill levels up. I'm talking about the Lifepath where you roll family, friends, enemies, vendettas, etc. I'm talking about the Lifepath that generates all those things that create drama, or more mercenarily would be considered ads/disads in point build games.

So, now that I'm really thinking about this, my advice is USE LIFEPATH. Make sure the characters have enough drama in their backgrounds to make an anime character go "whoa." Then use that shit in play. Turn that melodrama all the way up and snap the knob off. What direct experience I do have with CP2020 tells me that is the way the system and setting truly work. Once all that drama and tension is in place, the rest snaps into place near automatically.

Ultimately, Interlock is one of those systems you largely just use to eyeball shit and make a ruling. It's not really a system you truly game for effect.
Lots to unpack here.

Interlock is something I'd classify as "Less is More" with the proviso that you're playing contextually as a GM and you know what you want. If you approach Cyberpunk 2020 (and therefore Interlock) like a D&D game, for instance, you're going to get limited mileage. Sure there are lots of modules etc. But the game is designed for sandbox play where the players are encouraged to explore the setting. And that requires the GM be prepared to serve up the Dark Future(tm) thematically - Interlock is just the handholds for you to engage in that space.

So you're not wrong when you as a GM have to "Eyeball shit" - that's the core of all sandbox play. But good sandbox GMing means you *know* the conceits of the sandbox. The "rules" that transcend the system - who's who, and what goes where and how they go about doing "it". The Eyeballing (as you call it) should be minimal.

All that melodrama in Lifepath you mentioned - you nailed it. It's there to dial up until then nobs snap off, and that's what's cooked into your F'ed up PC's to deal with in game. Good or bad.

In my experience - doing all of this creates the "effect" of Cyberpunk 2020 as its own thing. My players, until the advent of Witcher - associated Interlock with CP2020 synonymously, which I maintained that Interlock could be used for nearly any gritty genre - including fantasy. It took them a couple of decades to prove me right... heh but better late than never. Interlock is a solid system for the right kind of game.

People were mentioning stat-max at character-gen. I used to cap my players at +7. For some reason that made them feel more "special". From my perspective it only spread them a little thinner... so when the inevitable occurs, they realize their potential mistake. Often too late.

This thread is getting me hyped for CPRed.
 

Stevethulhu

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Depends on the starting point of the game. If the players are on the street-level, unless they start with the necessary contacts, like real life, if they want mil-spec gear they gotta "know someone". It's inevitable that someone goes out of their way to make those contacts - which can be good adventure material in and of itself. It's fine if someone has those contacts from the start, or on their lifepath I might let them have some mil-spec keepsakes that fell off the back of a truck.

The real point for me is making that gear mean something contextually. Out in the wild - outside of "civilized" space... anything goes.
I think Night City is pretty wild. Look at the random encounter tables in the core book.

Which now I mention them, I'm reminded how much of a work of genius they are. Divided up by time of day and in tandem with the region specific tables in the Night City Sourcebook, theres enough material to sustain months of play.
 

Nexus

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I'd be tempted to nerf the combat sense the solos get as it makes them a bit over powered when they have it at 9. Basically it's the god stat for solos and combat in general.

One houserule I saw in a game I played in was a multi-classing feature. You could take up to 3 points worth of class-specific abilities from another class.
I've thought about something like that or just dropping the Roles all together. Capping skills seems like a good idea. I saw allot character with 10 <role skills> and 10 <combat skill> and little else.

It really depends on what kind of game you want to run. I've never strictly run CP2020, but I've run Interlock system pastiches.

If you want more swingy shooting, then you can make them opposed roll Firearms versus Dodge skill checks. Although somewhere out there on the intarwebs I saw a post by Tenbones where he describes how extremely dynamic the gunplay system of CP2020 is without just the static difficulty numbers and an acrobatic player character. Hopefully he'll chime in and link that.
I'd prefer to use defense rolls, but I don't have the modifiers for it. I'd be curious to see that article as well. IIRC in 2013 Combat Sense added to defense rolls but it made Solos almost unhittable

I always found the CP2020 armor values made players ignore everything except assault rifles. A standard armor jacket provides more than enough SP to pretty much eliminate the threat of a anything but the heaviest pistol. Admittedly, the CP2020 wounding system is extremely lethal, but the armor values blunt that lethality considerably, especially since armor only degrades when penetrated. If you want less of a military arms feel, and focus more on scary handgun shootouts on dark, slick, neon lit streets, perhaps consider halving all armor values, having them degrade by 2 points for every penetrating hit and 1 point per non-penetrating hit. I'd recommend having armor degrade something like that regardless of what else you do.

Or eliminate armor altogether if you really want to make players carefully consider getting into a shootout.
Weren't there some official new rules to layering armor? I've that abused quite a bit and the armor values did seem pretty high to my memory...
 

Nexus

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Here are some suggestions from another thread, thoughts?

Starting skills max out at (age/3), lifepath bonus not considered

No selling out option

No layering external armor. If you also have skinweave or plating, add 1/2 its SP to the armor you are wearing.

Revised staged penetration: if the weapon deals at least half the armor's SP in damage, SP drops by 1. If the armor gets penetrated, it loses as much SP as the weapon deals dice of damage, twice that for d10 based weapons.

Drop BTM and instead add its value as a positive bonus to each wound level.
 

Chris Brady

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Here are some suggestions from another thread, thoughts?
The first makes for a uniform character build, but it does keep it reasonable.

Part of the issue, I guess, is if you read the short story, the named characters are ridiculously overpowered, most of them them (except maybe Silverhand should have a +10 to his Charismatic Leader, and maybe Alt) are way too high. Hell, even the 'average goons' are a tad high in terms of stats. +2/3 is trained level. +5 is close to professional killer level for combat skills, and the average 'goon' shouldn't be anywhere near that.

Layering armour should be capped and the more you wear, the less mobile you become. So no more than maybe 20SP no matter how much you wear.

And it's incredibly rare for modern kevlar armour to be penetrated short of AP rounds. In fact, it takes a HELL of a lot of combat to even wear it down and have lose it's impact dispersal ability. That said, maybe the values for single pieces are too high. Just because a bullet doesn't break the armour, doesn't mean no damage gets through.

Never consider that BTM house rule. On the surface, I like it. How it functions in game, however... I have no idea.
 

Stevethulhu

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Here are some suggestions from another thread, thoughts?
Got to say, none of these rules actually address any of the issues I had in play. Certainly, I never bother about people maxing out skills at character creation. Whoopee, you have four skills at 10 and potentially another four at 5. You're barely capable of functioning in a near future society, despite the fact that you're a capable killer.

I've never met a player who considered selling out as a viable option, even after I've tempted them with it. Too many gamers are wise to the idea that if someone else owns your ass, they may (will) have fitted all kinds of command and control options to you. So selling out becomes a lot less attractive.

Armour layering rules are built into the game anyway, with SP capped at 30 and subsequent layers adding both EV and less SP.

We had our own staged penetration rules, which were more like armour ablation. Each hit reduced SP by 1 regardless of whether it penetrated or not. And a 6 on a damage dice did a point of damage through Soft Armour.

The BTM house rule, apart from it meaning that character sheets would need to be altered due to the way the Wound Track is printed in groups of 4, seems ok, but something doesn't quite feel right about it.
 

tenbones

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I've thought about something like that or just dropping the Roles all together. Capping skills seems like a good idea. I saw allot character with 10 <role skills> and 10 <combat skill> and little else.
In reference to Solos "Combat Sense" being a Godstat in combat. Two things: Solo generally are going to win the binary result of Initiative (*Generally*) and there is a good chance you're not going to get the drop on them unless you're a Ninja since they add their skill to their Awareness checks (or whatever it's called - I've been reading too many different systems these days).

The reality of it is that it depends entirely on the kind of game you're running. If it's high-combat sorts of fare with Solos doing merc-werk and stuff like that. Yeah - non-Solos better keep their heads down. BUT the reality of the game is that they're not inherently better at actual combat, only they tend to go first and/or are aware of you, before you're aware of them. If the game is a "normal" CP2020 game and civilization is a thing, then security zones, social norms are going to dictate a LOT of what happens. And being the Solo that skilled only in the ways of killing people - and not much else, is probably going to be very boring until it's not.

Proliferation of cyberware, gear etc. exacerbates the "problem" if the GM isn't keeping things contextual. Case in point... when I first started playing CP2020 - everyone wanted to be a Solo. They stacked Combat Sense, usually over their actual combat skills, our GM capped things at +6, the Solos in the group sunk their money into heavy armamanets - FN-RAL's and other assault weapons, Metal Gear armor etc. Only to find out that much of the game required us going in and out of very secure areas of the city which prohibited a LOT of their firepower. And ultimately they sunk most of the money into external firearms and obvious cyber-wear, arms, optics and most missed out on the speedware upgrades because they couldn't afford it.

But me, I decided to be a Fixer. I was good at a couple of things - melee, and Pistols. While they geared the hell up. I geared down. Pistols are legal everywhere - so I got a nice hefty Superchief revolver, found the rules for quickdraw (+3 to initiative with -3 penalty to hit), quickdraw holsters, AND I had the opportunity to get speedware boost for my Reflex. Effectively in a face-to-face encounter, with my pistol I was as good as a Solo with a Combat Sense +7 in a direct faceoff. On *average* most Solos aren't using these items in game - they could, and it could easily remove my "advantage" off the table, but it allowed me to look at my non-Solo not only as perfectly viable - but more useful. I didn't *need* to be a Solo to get much of their schtick in play. Not only that - it made people who played Solos more subtle - the Pistol Solo, *far* more dangerous because they could kit-themselves accordingly without being the hyper-military-arms carrying goon.

And frankly it made perfect sense. Solos in actual play, at the high-end of the game - like the mythical Angels in the Eurostates - whom many believe wore no cyberware (of course they did - it was all bioware) but they're never described going around with assault weaponry etc. because they don't really need to. A good pistol, good aim, and maybe a good bullet (if you can get them - hence I was a Fixer with military quartermaster contacts) and you can work wonders. Not that this kept me from hiring Solos as my bodyguards - let's keep it straight. I'm just illustrating that the *vast* advantage of Solos is simply shooting first. You *can* close that gap partially and significantly.

In other words - Solos are the top-shelf combat guys, but not for the reasons most people think. They're not overpowered - they're just highly specialized. And that should inform you as a GM on serving up content with context. Because if PC's think their Solos are going to go around shooting the fuck out of everyone - they may well do that. But all it takes is one good roll in Interlock, and pop!-goes-the-jackass. It's definitely a balancing act. The role of a Solo is that of the skilled killer - so in that realm, they should be holding the extra card.

I'd prefer to use defense rolls, but I don't have the modifiers for it. I'd be curious to see that article as well. IIRC in 2013 Combat Sense added to defense rolls but it made Solos almost unhittable
The solution you're looking for is Mekton (which is Interlock too, modified for a more anime/cinematic feel). The way they handle it in Mekton, if you want your "Cyberpunk" to be more anime style... You let people use their Evade skill to *actively* roll against the shooter. Highest roll wins (or if you wanna make it more granular you can based on range, or static skill to range etc.)

Weren't there some official new rules to layering armor? I've that abused quite a bit and the armor values did seem pretty high to my memory...
Layering armor was first in Interface Magazine - which as I recall fairly basic. Then they added them in the revised last printing of CP2020. They went something like this:

You can have 3-layers of armor. Only 1 layer can be hard armor. Every additional layer gives you a -1, then a -2 (for a total -3) on your Reflex. Skinweave didn't count. You subtract the layer differences from A, to B, from inside out and consult the table:

1579639281463.png


You add that bonus number from the table to the higher of the two armors. Then you do it again with layer C. Can you get your SP up there? Sure. But most players I know aren't going to lose 3 points of Reflex to waddle around when you can simply get cover.

MOST layered combinations aren't going to have Hard Armor on the torso. It's too conspicuous. If you can afford it you might have a tailored trenchcoat/jacket that's heavy kevlar armor (SP20), and a kevlar t-shirt underneath (SP10) - so total of SP23. Pretty respectable. But let's be realistic - this is arms and torso. Are you *really* walking around Night City with helmet on your head? I guess it depends. If so - well then it's clear you're probably out there doing something skanky and probably looking for trouble (or know trouble is coming). SP23 is very good, but certainly not going to stop someone with AP rounds. It's not even really a deal-breaker to be honest.

Plus they added, along with the optional rules of Layering Armor, the extra optional rule of Staged Penetration. Everytime your armor gets hit - that location loses 1SP of value. Yeah... so while you're armored up to the gills... that's one full-auto-spray of ass-kicking damage to reduce your armor to shreds.
 
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tenbones

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Granted - if your PC's wearing whatever they want "just because" it's in the book - bank on them getting Metal Gear, + Heavy Flak + T-shirts for SP31.

And they'll be waddling around like tanks wondering why everyone is steering clear of them and their enemies will long-range them or do a drive-by with some AP rounds and ruin their day. You only have to halve that SP value to make it the staged penetration cost them.

If there was a "tweak" - I'd rule the Layered armor doesn't impact staged penetration as a whole. So you might have SP31... but that outer layer is only 25 when that first AP 7.62NATO round comes your way, followed up by his 29 other buddies.
 

tenbones

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Or you know... just go Heavy Weapons on them - where the AP effects don't halve the damage that get through. 10-gauge Shotguns at close range are 5d6+3 per round. Auto-shotguns will mow heavily armored PC's into hamburger.
 

Chris Brady

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Wait, the rolling for Evade is a Mekton thing? Not a CP2020? Oh, oh dear. Well, oops.
 

Chris Brady

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That's what I get for playing Mekton 2 first. I assumed. Still, I don't recall anyone complaining. :tongue:
 
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