R. Talasorian's Cyberpunk 2020: Any House rules you enjoy or are really tempted to employ?

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Me, I house ruled as little as I had to to make the game work. And I paid attention to the underlying maths.

You, you want a different game from the one in front of you. And that's fine. But don't ask for advice that you don't want.

We're going to just have to agree to disagree then.

I think I just interpreted things differently and found different things fun just like anyone else playing the game. I don't think you're wrong and deviating from one One True Way of playing the game. But yes, I wasn't looking for corrections to be told the Right way but for suggestions to correct things I found problematic before. There's been some in the thread so far (hopefully more will come up) and I'm grateful for that, but you'll have to forgive e for not tossing out what I've enjoyed over the yrs in favor the assumption you're preferences are the Correct Ones.

The thread itself was asking about house rule that were enjoyed and were tempted to use. It wasn't about supposedly 'mandatory changes or making the game 'work'. Heck I noted the opening post that they game 'works' fine as it is.
 
We're going to just have to agree to disagree then.

I think I just interpreted things differently and found different things fun just like anyone else playing the game. I don't think you're wrong and deviating from one One True Way of playing the game. But yes, I wasn't looking for corrections to be told the Right way but for suggestions to correct things I found problematic before. There's been some in the thread so far (hopefully more will come up) and I'm grateful for that, but you'll have to forgive e for not tossing out what I've enjoyed over the yrs in favor the assumption you're preferences are the Correct Ones.

The thread itself was asking about house rule that were enjoyed and were tempted to use. It wasn't about supposedly 'mandatory changes or making the game 'work'. Heck I noted the opening post that they game 'works' fine as it is.
The thing is, the game works fine. But how much do you need to change before it becomes a different game?

Special Abilities, cybernetics and humanity cost, social interaction rules. Combat. Technology. Netrunning. The structure of the Net itself. What you've got is what I call Trigger's Broom.

 
The whole point of the Trigger's Broom (or My Grandfather's Axe) allegory is that if the individual still thinks it's that thing, it's that thing, and it's not for other people to tell them they're wrong.
 
The whole point of the Trigger's Broom (or My Grandfather's Axe) allegory is that if the individual still thinks it's that thing, it's that thing, and it's not for other people to tell them they're wrong.
It's an internal/external allegory. The whole point of the Trigger's Broom scene is the fact that not only has this brush, no original parts left by several generations, but that he claims he's got a picture and therefore has proof that it is in fact the same. Despite having just said it's had 17 new heads and 14 new handles.

To Trigger, it's the same thing. Yet it demonstrably isn't.

Edit: My point being, why ask for house rules when you are in fact going to take the chassis and put all new bodywork on it? To restate, how much of a thing do you have to change before it becomes a new thing?
 
I felt like the OP was along the lines of

"Hey, I have this cool car I'd like to put some work into restoring and updating. What have you guys done to your cars that made them cool and interesting?"

while your response is

"If you're not restoring it to stock you're talking about a different car, quit asking."
 
I felt like the OP was along the lines of

"Hey, I have this cool car I'd like to put some work into restoring and updating. What have you guys done to your cars that made them cool and interesting?"

while your response is

"If you're not restoring it to stock you're talking about a different car, quit asking."
It's more the OP says:

"Hey, I have this cool car I'd like to put some work into restoring and updating. What have you guys done to your cars that made them cool and interesting?"

And I responded with:

"I try to keep it as close to stock as possible, but here's a few tweaks to make it run smoother and handle better."

To which the OP responded:

"Well I want to replace the engine, upgrade the suspension, change the steering geometry and chop the roof off to make it into a convertible."
 
I felt like the OP was along the lines of

"Hey, I have this cool car I'd like to put some work into restoring and updating. What have you guys done to your cars that made them cool and interesting?"

Yes, that's essentially what I meant. I ran into some things I found problematic in playing and running the game and read of some others and I wanted to see if anyone had come up with interesting House rules or had ideas for any. I really didn't want to get into some kind of pissing contest about who was more Right in their view or who could sticking closer to RAW.
 
Has anyone had Exotics play a major role (like as a player character) or have they been a weird setting element (or less)? I've seen some people say they felt like a detraction from the grim and gritty mood of the setting, too cartoonish but they always struck me as something that made sense and were a sign of how odd and somewhat decadent society had become with some treating their bodies like fashion accessories and plausible in a world where people go perfectly functional parts cut off to be replaced gun mounts and Cuisinarts.
 
Has anyone had Exotics play a major role (like as a player character) or have they been a weird setting element (or less)? I've seen some people say they felt like a detraction from the grim and gritty mood of the setting, too cartoonish but they always struck me as something that made sense and were a sign of how odd and somewhat decadent society had become with some treating their bodies like fashion accessories and plausible in a world where people go perfectly functional parts cut off to be replaced gun mounts and Cuisinarts.
I had a gang of Exotics in my Teen Years game (like when I was running between 16 and 19) that were based on the Panther Moderns (a la Gibson) but with some extra weirdness tossed in. They were a sideline thing, so not important to the plot, but didn't distract much from it. As an adult, I later wondered where the gang would have gotten the expensive genetic analysis and clone-growth modifications done; that's the extent of the "does it fit with the gritty feel" for me.. if there were some kind of Secret of NIMH justification that I'd thought of then, I don't think there's an issue.
 
Before the Pacific Rim book came out, I made a 'Neo-Tokyo' and their version of Kabuki-cho had an escort industry that specialized in animal themed Exotics.
 
All this talk of 2020 and then Altered Carbon (including the 'Resleeved' animation) has got be back into wanting to run a CP game. :grin:
 
I ran across this.. It seems to be a fan made compilation of published material from the game that could prove useful. I think its all legit, but please tell me if there's a problem with it!

Cyberpunk 2020 reference book: v5
 
I ran across this.. It seems to be a fan made compilation of published material from the game that could prove useful. I think its all legit, but please tell me if there's a problem with it!

Cyberpunk 2020 reference book: v5
The node 16 stuff is legit. It's a list of everything in the various books that were out at the time the compilation was made. Here's a zip file with the whole thing broken up into the various chapters, instead of one massive document.
 
The node 16 stuff is legit. It's a list of everything in the various books that were out at the time the compilation was made. Here's a zip file with the whole thing broken up into the various chapters, instead of one massive document.

Thanks, I'm sure allot of folks will find that helpful :0

I also ran across Electric Dreams Fall Season Catalog, which seems to be a fan made source book with some new (and odd) cybernetics, bioware, etc, options frame as a catalog for one cutting edge and another underground clinic.
 
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Has anyone had Exotics play a major role (like as a player character) or have they been a weird setting element (or less)? I've seen some people say they felt like a detraction from the grim and gritty mood of the setting, too cartoonish but they always struck me as something that made sense and were a sign of how odd and somewhat decadent society had become with some treating their bodies like fashion accessories and plausible in a world where people go perfectly functional parts cut off to be replaced gun mounts and Cuisinarts.

I dunno. I always found it more distracting there were canonical gangs full of people biosculpted to look like cast members from Giligan's Island, and a gang full of circus clowns.

Maybe it's just my latent furry showing, but someone wanting to look like a dragon made a lot more sense to me than some of what I considered the goofy shit in Night City.
 
It's the complete archive from Datafortress 2000. Theres a hell of a lot of stuff in there.
There is, but I never really liked most of the DF2020 stuff. Something about his presentation just killed it for me, and I didn't like some of the rules adjustments he had. Cyberpunk.asia always felt better, and I REALLY like some of his lifepath stuff.
 
There is, but I never really liked most of the DF2020 stuff. Something about his presentation just killed it for me, and I didn't like some of the rules adjustments he had. Cyberpunk.asia always felt better, and I REALLY like some of his lifepath stuff.

Its a trove and the administrator seems like a nice guy, but you do want to pick and ch chose with thought, they have their own preferences and conceptions and they may not match yours.
 
The other thin with the Datsfortress archive is, it's got things like Blackhammer and Ocelot saved with it. There's a good cross section of the 2020 commu city that was in there.
 
I had a gang of Exotics in my Teen Years game (like when I was running between 16 and 19) that were based on the Panther Moderns (a la Gibson) but with some extra weirdness tossed in. They were a sideline thing, so not important to the plot, but didn't distract much from it. As an adult, I later wondered where the gang would have gotten the expensive genetic analysis and clone-growth modifications done; that's the extent of the "does it fit with the gritty feel" for me.. if there were some kind of Secret of NIMH justification that I'd thought of then, I don't think there's an issue.

Yeah, Exotics gangs have the same 'mystery' inherent in them that some Boosters do, specifically "Where are they getting the funds for this/who do they owe favors to for it?" They could be anything from twisted wealthy out "wilding" in an almost literal sense to some sort of undercover ops group using the bizarre look as cover.

I dunno. I always found it more distracting there were canonical gangs full of people biosculpted to look like cast members from Giligan's Island, and a gang full of circus clowns.

Maybe it's just my latent furry showing, but someone wanting to look like a dragon made a lot more sense to me than some of what I considered the goofy shit in Night City.


As popular as Anthro/Furry culture is, I can easily imagine people taking on that look in RL if it was people. Some try to get close now. Exotic gangs share some of the possible hooks as booster due to the expense. Posers fit to me as symptom of the decreasingly distant, decadent society, the body as canvas/style over substance idea and the drive to belong, to have meaning and also oddly, for a degree of anonymity, cultist-like devotion to some figure or even fiction, etc.

Given the streak of prankster dressing like clowns to freak people out and Juggaloes, the Bozo don't bug me. I think I'd present them as nihilistic anarchists with a virtually religious dogma devoted to pointing the chaos if life and how funny it is, a gang of Jokers (but it might be cribbing a little much from Batman Beyond :grin: )
 
I dunno. I always found it more distracting there were canonical gangs full of people biosculpted to look like cast members from Giligan's Island, and a gang full of circus clowns.

Maybe it's just my latent furry showing, but someone wanting to look like a dragon made a lot more sense to me than some of what I considered the goofy shit in Night City.
Well, it WAS written by people who lived in the 80's. I've never used Poser gangs. If I ran the game now, I'd be more focused on the Exotics, as I am a HUGE fan of Batman Beyond and the 'splicing' thing they did in the series.
 
Exotics are an example of something about the game that I liked. Items aren't always detailed and priced that are "adventurer" items, weapons, armor, adventure gear, etc. But items that are present in the setting and paint a picture of what they world is like and 'realistically' expensive (or cheap) not priced based on the meta concept of 'game balance'.
 
Looking through the fan material and offerings has reminded me what a ruckus Humanity caused among the fan-base over the years. It is incredibly arbitrary and even more so among fan creations as their isn't even advise is determining it and everyone has opinion. In mine, biological and largely cosmetic procedure should have next to none. Sure, unstable people might get them but they, in and of themselves, probably don't tax your sanity if willing to adopted...barring other factors. Engineered adrenals that offer bonuses well beyond the norm but cause emotional roller coaster, very well might.

Some additional guidelines, maybe even sanity rules with other things that could affect it and more varied results. I stand by my opinion that Humanity is okay Quick and Dirty kludge for a complicated subject and tool for balance but it could bear some work as their asset of it that don't precisely click. GM attentiveness and thought can help allot as with most things.

"Yeah, Razor Anne is a hardcase, but I don't think getting the game equivalent of a fancy tattoo is gonna send her one a killing rampage...even with the poor HL rolls for those metal limbs she has... so lets just say she's troubled by nightmares of accidentally crushing her dream child or being endlessly rejected romantically because she looks a sort of like a Soviet war machine, ok"
 
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Random thought maybe if you want to reduce/drop Humanity require that the surgery, even the hospital time must be paid for even for cybernetics taken at chargen. though this might make them prohibitively expensive requiring an increase in funds... and I can sse this leading to viscous circle.

Maybe let PCs go into debt for the hospital, surgery and cyberware. They have them and some immediate reasons to find some funds... Having your Limbs and organs repossessed is a major PItA*....

*literally if that's where the implants are...
 
I prefer a more abstract approach to tracking wealth or debt as I find tracking actual funds closely always kind of breaks down in actual play.
 
I prefer a more abstract approach to tracking wealth or debt as I find tracking actual funds closely always kind of breaks down in actual play.

Fair enough mileage is going to vary and it was a rough idea. I've mostly made my peace with Humanity and. I haven't had any problem with tracking currency personally, but like Abstract Movement, I tend to prefer things more literal and concrete (Ironically both issues I ran into with Exalted. Why oh why can't I quit you!?), particularly in genre's like cyberpunk where money, how to get it, what you do with and will do for it can provide such good hooks and motivation (And genre fitting), IME;
 
Fair enough mileage is going to vary and it was a rough idea. I've mostly made my peace with Humanity and. I haven't had any problem with tracking currency personally, but like Abstract Movement, I tend to prefer things more literal and concrete (Ironically both issues I ran into with Exalted. Why oh why can't I quit you!?), particularly in genre's like cyberpunk where money, how to get it, what you do with and will do for it can provide such good hooks and motivation (And genre fitting), IME;

I get that but I think a more abstract system can still lead to pushing play and do it more effectively. When it is actual currency down to the dollar so much gets handwaved away anyway and gets abstracted as well ($ per day to live, etc.). To really be accurate would almost require its own minigame and few would want to play Accounting The RPG to accomplish it.
 
Here is an idea I had for Cyberpunk:

Icons

This is an age of the manufactured celebrity. Where gossip columnists used to base stories on real people (well in theory anyway), Icons allow any story to be told about them, for a fee. Artificial roles played by a series of actors, Icons have complex lives that are spun off into the real world or into fiction as needs and interest demand.

There are two classes of Icons. The Olympians are the protagonists and generally have positive and generally acceptable qualities and personalities tailored for the status quo. Olympians are generally acceptable to society and their quirks, foibles and failings are similarly within the range of societal acceptability. They are designed for people to identify with and to sell them things that people want. In wrestling Olympians would be called ‘Faces’.

The Titans are the antagonists and the adversaries of the Olympians. They act as foils, dark mirrors and are designed to show fringe elements of the culture in disrepute or to co-opt their concerns. Many of the Titans are portrayed as Edgerunners, Nomads, Refugees or other opponents of the status quo. In wrestling the Titans would be known as ‘Heels’.

Being an Icon grants fame. An Icon is referred to by their role’s name, but outside their local area, they will be called by their region as well: A Zeus in New York might refer to himself as ‘Night City Zeus’, whereas the local Zeus would just be ‘Zeus’. Truly famous Icons may even put their own stamp on the role reflected by being referred to their name with the name of their role such as Zeus-Washington, or Hermes-Manfred. An Icon is provided with an Agent program who manages their life.

Icons get free clothes, jewelry, cosmetics, vehicles while in character except they are not their property and they can generally only have really expensive things while in character. Clothes and some jewelry might be given to an Icon as part of their payment. An Icon with a major role will be busy 5 days a week for 3-4 hours. A minor role will take 2-3 days a week for the same time. Some icons livestream their lives. Confabulation is the term for what is true within the fictional realm. Within the Confab, Zeus and Hera are husband and wife. Out of Confab, they may not even know each other well.

***

In game terms being a minor Icon lets the PC have small amounts of fame and a regular salary for a small amount of work per weekthat can be explained as downtime. If they go out as the Icon they have to comport themselves a certain way, but they can dress down and be anonymous to a degree. Its like being a professional wrestler with a soap opera drama instead of a wrestling rivalry.
 
A Cyberpunk 2020 irony: You get all 'ware to say, you the ultimate seducer/seductress mega lover (or other Empathy driven skill) and due to Humanity Loss you're less good at than you were without or at best break even. :grin:
 
Here is an idea I had for Cyberpunk:

Icons

This is an age of the manufactured celebrity. Where gossip columnists used to base stories on real people (well in theory anyway), Icons allow any story to be told about them, for a fee. Artificial roles played by a series of actors, Icons have complex lives that are spun off into the real world or into fiction as needs and interest demand.

There are two classes of Icons. The Olympians are the protagonists and generally have positive and generally acceptable qualities and personalities tailored for the status quo. Olympians are generally acceptable to society and their quirks, foibles and failings are similarly within the range of societal acceptability. They are designed for people to identify with and to sell them things that people want. In wrestling Olympians would be called ‘Faces’.

The Titans are the antagonists and the adversaries of the Olympians. They act as foils, dark mirrors and are designed to show fringe elements of the culture in disrepute or to co-opt their concerns. Many of the Titans are portrayed as Edgerunners, Nomads, Refugees or other opponents of the status quo. In wrestling the Titans would be known as ‘Heels’.

Being an Icon grants fame. An Icon is referred to by their role’s name, but outside their local area, they will be called by their region as well: A Zeus in New York might refer to himself as ‘Night City Zeus’, whereas the local Zeus would just be ‘Zeus’. Truly famous Icons may even put their own stamp on the role reflected by being referred to their name with the name of their role such as Zeus-Washington, or Hermes-Manfred. An Icon is provided with an Agent program who manages their life.

Icons get free clothes, jewelry, cosmetics, vehicles while in character except they are not their property and they can generally only have really expensive things while in character. Clothes and some jewelry might be given to an Icon as part of their payment. An Icon with a major role will be busy 5 days a week for 3-4 hours. A minor role will take 2-3 days a week for the same time. Some icons livestream their lives. Confabulation is the term for what is true within the fictional realm. Within the Confab, Zeus and Hera are husband and wife. Out of Confab, they may not even know each other well.

***

In game terms being a minor Icon lets the PC have small amounts of fame and a regular salary for a small amount of work per weekthat can be explained as downtime. If they go out as the Icon they have to comport themselves a certain way, but they can dress down and be anonymous to a degree. Its like being a professional wrestler with a soap opera drama instead of a wrestling rivalry.

Sort of like Pro-wrestling Heels and Faces writ large and across society at large. I like it, takes Style over Substance to an entertaining extreme :grin:
 
Sort of like Pro-wrestling Heels and Faces writ large and across society at large. I like it, takes Style over Substance to an entertaining extreme :grin:

Thanks. You can have at lot of fun with the archetypes in use. I loosely based mine on the Olympians and Titans but you could substitute your favourite/most hated soap opera (I originially considered using Bold and the Beautiful after being forced to watch several episodes on holiday with the mother in law) or even some real world reality TV show like the Kardashians.
 
Here is an idea I had for Cyberpunk:

Icons

This is an age of the manufactured celebrity. Where gossip columnists used to base stories on real people (well in theory anyway), Icons allow any story to be told about them, for a fee. Artificial roles played by a series of actors, Icons have complex lives that are spun off into the real world or into fiction as needs and interest demand.

There are two classes of Icons. The Olympians are the protagonists and generally have positive and generally acceptable qualities and personalities tailored for the status quo. Olympians are generally acceptable to society and their quirks, foibles and failings are similarly within the range of societal acceptability. They are designed for people to identify with and to sell them things that people want. In wrestling Olympians would be called ‘Faces’.

The Titans are the antagonists and the adversaries of the Olympians. They act as foils, dark mirrors and are designed to show fringe elements of the culture in disrepute or to co-opt their concerns. Many of the Titans are portrayed as Edgerunners, Nomads, Refugees or other opponents of the status quo. In wrestling the Titans would be known as ‘Heels’.

Being an Icon grants fame. An Icon is referred to by their role’s name, but outside their local area, they will be called by their region as well: A Zeus in New York might refer to himself as ‘Night City Zeus’, whereas the local Zeus would just be ‘Zeus’. Truly famous Icons may even put their own stamp on the role reflected by being referred to their name with the name of their role such as Zeus-Washington, or Hermes-Manfred. An Icon is provided with an Agent program who manages their life.

Icons get free clothes, jewelry, cosmetics, vehicles while in character except they are not their property and they can generally only have really expensive things while in character. Clothes and some jewelry might be given to an Icon as part of their payment. An Icon with a major role will be busy 5 days a week for 3-4 hours. A minor role will take 2-3 days a week for the same time. Some icons livestream their lives. Confabulation is the term for what is true within the fictional realm. Within the Confab, Zeus and Hera are husband and wife. Out of Confab, they may not even know each other well.

***

In game terms being a minor Icon lets the PC have small amounts of fame and a regular salary for a small amount of work per weekthat can be explained as downtime. If they go out as the Icon they have to comport themselves a certain way, but they can dress down and be anonymous to a degree. Its like being a professional wrestler with a soap opera drama instead of a wrestling rivalry.
So what would be their 'Special Ability' called and what would it do?
 
So what would be their 'Special Ability' called and what would it do?

Its hard to know without character generation rules. Have they been released yet? Im thinking that Icons are a job that a Rockerboy could do. You don't want to be a performer? Be an Icon! You can be famous for being famous.... but now I think of it there isn't really a class that couldn't play an Icon. At present they are just a potential way to justify fame and employment and provide all manner of adventure hooks.
 
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