Rainbow Crystal Utopia

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Venger Satanis

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So, this time it took about one hour for DTRPG's protocols to trigger a pull from the shelves and review of my latest Cha'alt adventure. Only 6 downloads, but a number of complaints.

It's called Rainbow Crystal Utopia. I take a few satirical jabs at prevailing concerns of the day. Obviously, a certain segment of the gaming population doesn't like that very much... or me. That's why I have to wait another 2 business weeks to see if they'll "blacklist" it, like they did The Good Syma'arian.

If you want it, there's a way... https://vengersatanis.blogspot.com/2022/06/rainbow-crystal-utopia.html

Thanks for your continued support, hoss!

VS
 

AsenRG

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...wait, you managed to get pulled from DTRPG/OBS again:grin:?
Man, you should try to find a way to monetize on the pulled stuff:shade:!
 

Torque2100

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Again? Really?
You should talk to Grim Jim. James is able to run his own website complete with an online store he owns from which his stuff can't be pulled.
 

Baulderstone

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Again? Really?
You should talk to Grim Jim. James is able to run his own website complete with an online store he owns from which his stuff can't be pulled.
The guy's whole shtick at the moment is writing stuff that he knows they will reject so that he can run around and make a big deal about it. How would he get any attention or sales if he went about it a professional?
 

Torque2100

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The guy's whole shtick at the moment is writing stuff that he knows they will reject so that he can run around and make a big deal about it. How would he get any attention or sales if he went about it a professional?
I know, I just think he could go about it better. There's definitely demand for "Too Hot for DTRPG" material. Having his own site would allow him to monetize that stuff more easily instead of just giving it away or making people jump through hoops to send him money.
 

Black Leaf

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Again? Really?
You should talk to Grim Jim. James is able to run his own website complete with an online store he owns from which his stuff can't be pulled.
Without wanting to be nasty about it, the stuff on Jim's website is a lot more, um, polished, to put it mildly.
 

TristramEvans

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Without wanting to be nasty about it, the stuff on Jim's website is a lot more, um, polished, to put it mildly.

TBF, DIY-looking gaming material does have a certain appeal to a certain hobby demographic, particularly those with a long memory in the hobby. Not quite as fetishized as it is among certain wargaming grognards, but it's there
 

Venger Satanis

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Without wanting to be nasty about it, the stuff on Jim's website is a lot more, um, polished, to put it mildly.

Why not do a side-by-side comparison? Let's put something like The Good Syma'arian and Rainbow Crystal Utopia up against two recent PDFs self-published by Grim. If someone wanted to do a full write-up, I'd be happy to supply my titles.
 

Black Leaf

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Why not do a side-by-side comparison? Let's put something like The Good Syma'arian and Rainbow Crystal Utopia up against two recent PDFs self-published by Grim. If someone wanted to do a full write-up, I'd be happy to supply my titles.
I'd be up for that, but someone more OSR/D&D orientated might be fairer on you. (The other question is if you think either of them is possible to review while leaving the political parts out. If not, it's still a good idea but someone's blog would be a better place).

I'd suggest a good comparison would be Absolute Fucking Monsters, which obviously has that kind of 'edge' element as well.
 

Venger Satanis

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I know, I just think he could go about it better. There's definitely demand for "Too Hot for DTRPG" material. Having his own site would allow him to monetize that stuff more easily instead of just giving it away or making people jump through hoops to send him money.

I'm sure you'll be happy to know that things are in the works. ;)

Also, I like having an actual relationship with my customers. They're real people behind those digital dollars and download codes. I consider most of them friends and family.
 

Venger Satanis

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I'd be up for that, but someone more OSR/D&D orientated might be fairer on you. (The other question is if you think either of them is possible to review while leaving the political parts out. If not, it's still a good idea but someone's blog would be a better place).

I'd suggest a good comparison would be Absolute Fucking Monsters, which obviously has that kind of 'edge' element as well.

Fairer? I think you misunderstood what I was proposing. I'm talking about just showing actual pages, without commentary, of both (or multiple) products side... by... side. Big enough that folks can click on pages and actually read what's written, as well.

That way people can judge for themselves. Obviously, there are forums and social media sites where people can give their own subjective commentary.
 

Black Leaf

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Fairer? I think you misunderstood what I was proposing. I'm talking about just showing actual pages, without commentary, of both (or multiple) products side... by... side. Big enough that folks can click on pages and actually read what's written, as well.

That way people can judge for themselves. Obviously, there are forums and social media sites where people can give their own subjective commentary.
At least one of yours is free I think so people can get hold of it? (I don't think we should post up large amounts of Jim's work without his permission).
 

Venger Satanis

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The guy's whole shtick at the moment is writing stuff that he knows they will reject so that he can run around and make a big deal about it. How would he get any attention or sales if he went about it a professional?

I seemed to get a fair amount of attention prior to my red-pilling and pushback against the woke. Ever heard of The Islands of Purple-Haunted Putrescence or How To Game Master Like A Fucking Boss? Yes, that was rhetorical; of course you have. I believe they're both platinum best-sellers on DTRPG.
 

robertsconley

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I seemed to get a fair amount of attention prior to my red-pilling and pushback against the woke. Ever heard of The Islands of Purple-Haunted Putrescence or How To Game Master Like A Fucking Boss? Yes, that was rhetorical; of course you have. I believe they're both platinum best-sellers on DTRPG.
Don't be disingenuous. Don't try to bullshit us that your latest round of promotion is anything special beyond what you have been doing since the early 2010s. It follows a well-worn path of exploiting controversy as a means of gaining attention. Whether it is focusing on the occult, "green slime and tentacles" or the latest political issues.
 

Black Leaf

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I seemed to get a fair amount of attention prior to my red-pilling and pushback against the woke. Ever heard of The Islands of Purple-Haunted Putrescence or How To Game Master Like A Fucking Boss? Yes, that was rhetorical; of course you have. I believe they're both platinum best-sellers on DTRPG.

I don't think anyone's questioning the fact you have strong beliefs held sincerely for commercial reasons.
 

TristramEvans

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I seemed to get a fair amount of attention prior to my red-pilling and pushback against the woke. Ever heard of The Islands of Purple-Haunted Putrescence or How To Game Master Like A Fucking Boss? Yes, that was rhetorical; of course you have. I believe they're both platinum best-sellers on DTRPG.

No, I havent heard of them (but probably as I'm not your target demographic - I have no interest in D&D so never paid much attention to the OSR), but congrats on that. I'd love to have a bestseller on there some day.
 

Gringnr

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I seemed to get a fair amount of attention prior to my red-pilling and pushback against the woke. Ever heard of The Islands of Purple-Haunted Putrescence or How To Game Master Like A Fucking Boss? Yes, that was rhetorical; of course you have. I believe they're both platinum best-sellers on DTRPG.
plat.png
 

Rob Necronomicon

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Venger, I think this is going to become the new norm for you sadly. Because I suspect that you're the target of a few individuals. Who will flag all your products just to be nasty.

But don't let the bastards grind you down... At best they will be delaying your products by a couple of weeks, that's about all they can do.
 

Ladybird

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Venger, I think this is going to become the new norm for you sadly. Because I suspect that you're the target of a few individuals. Who will flag all your products just to be nasty.
Given they're a core part of his marketing plan, if not the entirety thereof, I'd rather see him add them to his payroll... if they are actually other people, of course, and not him submitting the complaints under an alt account.
 

Black Leaf

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Venger, I think this is going to become the new norm for you sadly. Because I suspect that you're the target of a few individuals. Who will flag all your products just to be nasty.

But don't let the bastards grind you down... At best they will be delaying your products by a couple of weeks, that's about all they can do.
It's going to be a delay of two weeks unless Venger has knowingly broken TOC again.

Venger said:
I read DriveThruRPG's email yesterday and the upshot is that The Good Syma'arian one-shot Cha'alt adventure won't be allowed back onto their virtual shelves without several changes.

Specifically, the child endangerment portions. While I fully understand, after all, it's written in their rules, taking that stuff out dilutes the message.

Puts a bit of a different perspective on it than Venger's spin, no?

He put up a one shot that, in his own words, knowingly broke the rules. Charitably, they didn't just tell him to sod off, they offered to put it back on if he edited it so it was no longer in breach of the rules.

I am hard pressed to think of a store that would let people put up stuff that breaks the TOC. Amazon certainly won't.

If you want to use another business you're going to need to follow their rules on content. That's just the way the real world works.

In the same way that Venger has rules for his own convention:

Continually disruptive, harassing, or antagonistic attendees will be asked to leave.

Is Venger censoring people there or is he reasonably setting out the rules convention goers need to abide by?

I wish I had some fake Rolex to see some of you, you're such marks.
 
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Venger Satanis

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It's going to be a delay of two weeks unless Venger has knowingly broken TOC again.



Puts a bit of a different perspective on it than Venger's spin, no?

He put up a one shot that, in his own words, knowingly broke the rules. Charitably, they didn't just tell him to sod off, they offered to put it back on if he edited it so it was no longer in breach of the rules.

I am hard pressed to think of a store that would let people put up stuff that breaks the TOC. Amazon certainly won't.

If you want to use another business you're going to need to follow their rules on content. That's just the way the real world works.

In the same way that Venger has rules for his own convention:



Is Venger censoring people there or is he reasonably setting out the rules convention goers need to abide by?

I wish I had some fake Rolex to see some of you, you're such marks.

I didn't realize the full extent of DTRPG's terms/code/rules until after I publicly released The Good Syma'arian. So, my comment that you quoted was based on hindsight. Showing the dangers, that affect babies and small children (like abortion), if the heroes don't act, didn't seem like an offense that could get an adventure "blacklisted". If that's not allowed, you wouldn't be able to replicate The Beastmaster or maybe even the Dungeons & Dragons cartoon series.

I am grateful that DTRPG at least gives me the chance to be heard. That's better than a lot of overly political RPG sites and platforms, these days.

VS
 

VisionStorm

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I didn't realize the full extent of DTRPG's terms/code/rules until after I publicly released The Good Syma'arian. So, my comment that you quoted was based on hindsight.

Figured.

Showing the dangers, that affect babies and small children (like abortion), if the heroes don't act, didn't seem like an offense that could get an adventure "blacklisted". If that's not allowed, you wouldn't be able to replicate The Beastmaster or maybe even the Dungeons & Dragons cartoon series.

That rule pretty much throws out content based around traditional dark fairytales about changelings stealing babies and stuff like that...assuming they truly apply it evenly and ban everything that features "child endangerment", and aren't just being selective about it.
 

Venger Satanis

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At least one of yours is free I think so people can get hold of it? (I don't think we should post up large amounts of Jim's work without his permission).

How about 3 random pages? If you want Grim's permission, ask. Or I can ask for you. Essentially, if you haven't guessed, I reject the notion that Grim's self-published PDF material is more "polished" than mine.
 

Black Leaf

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How about 3 random pages? If you want Grim's permission, ask. Or I can ask for you. Essentially, if you haven't guessed, I reject the notion that Grim's self-published PDF material is more "polished" than mine.
Or we could just compare your frontpage with his for what I'm talking about.

Venger.jpg

Postmortem Studios.jpg

Maybe you can't be bothered sorting out a landing page which is fair enough. But I'd be extremely surprised if something more like the second wouldn't sell more copies of your work, on top of which you'd be keeping 100% of the profits. I assume you're using the exclusivity agreement with Drivethru? If so, not much that can be done about it. Or don't do anything obviously. It's no skin off my nose.
 

robertsconley

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I didn't realize the full extent of DTRPG's terms/code/rules until after I publicly released The Good Syma'arian. So, my comment that you quoted was based on hindsight. Showing the dangers, that affect babies and small children (like abortion), if the heroes don't act, didn't seem like an offense that could get an adventure "blacklisted". If that's not allowed, you wouldn't be able to replicate The Beastmaster or maybe even the Dungeons & Dragons cartoon series.
Again you are being disingenuous. The Good Syma'arian was a product designed to exploit a current divisive political topic. If you had a history of publishing products that were social commentary that would be par for the course. But you don't have such a history.

In addition, you have participated extensively in the hobby and industry often commenting on what was happening on a variety of topics related to the hobby and industry. I find it hard to believe that you didn't know this product would provoke a reaction from the staff of Onebookshelf or its customers when you posted it. A reaction beyond its merits as an RPG product.

And it doesn't help that the whole "Oops" attitude displayed by your reply has been used countless other times in other contexts with similar situations. You are not a novice but an experienced publisher with over a decade of experience. An individual who has successfully created and promoted multiple successful products. Who is known to have a specific style and voice when it comes to the writing and presentation of these products.

In short, you have been "Publishing and Promoting like a Fucking Boss" so sorry I don't buy your explanation.


I am grateful that DTRPG at least gives me the chance to be heard. That's better than a lot of overly political RPG sites and platforms, these days.

VS
 

Black Leaf

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If you're going to use outrage marketing, for goodness sake just embrace it. Don't complain when it has the predictable effect.

Do you think The Meteors cried about their gigs being banned? Did GG Allin complain that people were misunderstanding him? No, they doubled down and went on the Jerry Springer Show.
 

AsenRG

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How about 3 random pages? If you want Grim's permission, ask. Or I can ask for you. Essentially, if you haven't guessed, I reject the notion that Grim's self-published PDF material is more "polished" than mine.
Sorry, man, but having read both your material and Grimm's, and in a pretty similar genre at that...you can reject it all you like, but the assertion remains true:thumbsup:!

Venger likes wearing a short skirt.
TMI, dude, really TMI:shade:!
 

Rob Necronomicon

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Absolute Fucking Monsters is an absolute gem of a game; Grim on top form. It's how you do 90s style "edge" in a fun rather than annoying way. I may have heard rumours some bloke called Rob Necronomicon Rob Necronomicon did the illustrations and those are pretty good as well. ;)
If that dude did any of the artwork I'd start burning those books immediately. ;)

But seriously AFM is great and it's really well thought out. It's a shame that it doesn't get more talked about.
 

JAMUMU

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Machinations of the Space Princess is a brilliant game. Agents of S.W.I.N.G. is one of the few RPGs I wish I'd written myself. The Islands of Purple Putresence is a great sandbox module, but is also the peak of Venger's output, imho. I don't want to split hairs, but Grim Jim's work is streets ahead in terms of concept and execution. Also, he seems to manage to keep his ouvre on DTRPG on a pretty reliable basis.
 

Black Leaf

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Machinations of the Space Princess is a brilliant game. Agents of S.W.I.N.G. is one of the few RPGs I wish I'd written myself. The Islands of Purple Putresence is a great sandbox module, but is also the peak of Venger's output, imho. I don't want to split hairs, but Grim Jim's work is streets ahead in terms of concept and execution. Also, he seems to manage to keep his ouvre on DTRPG on a pretty reliable basis.
Interestingly, the AFM Companion is only on his webstore. I suspect he may be seeing if he keeps more money overall that way.

For other cool Grim games I recommend Neverwhere (also pretty mechanically innovative) and Colony Moon (Grim does storygames). A lot of his comedy stuff like Invaderz and Urban Faerie is also fun.

As I recall saying to him on here before he's at his creatively most interesting when he stops fighting with his "enemies" and lets his games talk for themselves.
 

JAMUMU

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As I recall saying to him on here before he's at his creatively most interesting when he stops fighting with his "enemies" and lets his games talk for themselves.
Tell him and VS there are no "enemies", man. We're all just one big hyper-consciousness enjoying itself in the quantum-foam party of creation.
 

VisionStorm

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Tell him and VS there are no "enemies", man. We're all just one big hyper-consciousness enjoying itself in the quantum-foam party of creation.

Technically true, but unfortunately most people don't realize that and like to make life miserable for the rest of us, and I can't help but get caught up fighting them. Plus Grim doesn't believe in the hyper-consciousness cuz he's a hard fedora tipper.
 

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Interestingly, the AFM Companion is only on his webstore. I suspect he may be seeing if he keeps more money overall that way.

For other cool Grim games I recommend Neverwhere (also pretty mechanically innovative) and Colony Moon (Grim does storygames). A lot of his comedy stuff like Invaderz and Urban Faerie is also fun.

As I recall saying to him on here before he's at his creatively most interesting when he stops fighting with his "enemies" and lets his games talk for themselves.
Makes sense. I'm not a fan because I don't get on with his style of humor, but he's at his best when writing his own things, rather than the hypercynical outrage bait.
 

JAMUMU

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Technically true, but unfortunately most people don't realize that and like to make life miserable for the rest of us, and I can't help but get caught up fighting them. Plus Grim doesn't believe in the hyper-consciousness cuz he's a hard fedora tipper.
It's hard, I know. Even I, a level 11 ascended Jupitron-JAMUMU-being, can be drawn into the quagmire that is the Interwebs. It's why psychedelics should be a short, experiential-led course taught in public schools.
 

AsenRG

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It's hard, I know. Even I, a level 11 ascended Jupitron-JAMUMU-being, can be drawn into the quagmire that is the Interwebs. It's why psychedics should be a short, experiential-led course taught in public schools.
Also the reason why posting on social media should require a governmental license, akin to driving, but with more stringent requirements:thumbsup:.
 

VisionStorm

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It's why psychedelics should be a short, experiential-led course taught in public schools.

I unironically approve of this message (with proper guidance and such, since bad trips are a thing, plus there can be downsides to spiritual experiences, like the Dark Night of the Soul, which I didn't know was a thing when I experienced it, and it went bad for me).

Also the reason why posting on social media should require a governmental license, akin to driving, but with more stringent requirements:thumbsup:.

Nah, I don't trust the state to get involved in that. They're already trying to crack down on it to maintain their own political power. Not that I disagree that there are negative aspects to social media and children probably shouldn't be in it, but that should be the parents' responsibility. But the government can't wait to dictate who gets to post in it and what.
 
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