Safety Tools in RPGs Meta-Discussion

[BedrockBrendan]

What would be the way of addressing that real problem in the context of RPGs?

I am not a therapist or a psychiatrist. I wouldn't attempt to deal with someones' real world psychological issues in a game. To me that isn't the place for it. I can give them my compassion, I can listen to them. But I can't turn the gaming table into a healing sessions. I don't have the expertise. Most GMs, most designers, most gamers, don't. That is something to talk with a therapist about.

 

[BedrockBrendan]

I read the Consent in Gaming document because it was brought up earlier in this thread, and it is abhorrent.

I may look down on Xcards, my general thought is a well-intentioned idea executed a little horribly and a little stupidly.

But the Consent in Gaming document is nothing short of infantilism and I think, predatory

And to be perfectly honest, most of my opinions are a reaction to the discussion that happened in the wake of consent in gaming. I was fairly neutral or disinterested in X Cards when they started coming around. But consent in gaming really shifted the discussion and it is when I really started to see some of the things I am talking about

 

[A Fiery Flying Roll]

This is where I disagree. I think the cards and the consent in gaming sheet are an invitation for people to find triggers they don't have. And I think you see this in discussions about it online and in live play where safety tools are used (where everyone in the group has way more issues then you would every naturally see crop up). And I think that has to do with these becoming things that are expected, even rewarded for having. That is why I see this as a negative trend. To me this trivializes the real issues, and it kind of makes all of gamer culture neurotic. I don't think that is good for us as a hobby. I just can't be dishonest about my feelings on this one. I am not trying to be hurtful or mean, or not show compassion if someone at the table has a real issue. I just think this kind of stuff is reaching an 'emperor has no clothes' level for me

Stop playing with wankers? Because I can't see why you'd want to play with the kind of people that would make up triggers in the first place.

Because I do agree that some of the language round "content checklists" is hyperbolic. But pretty much all it boils down to when you look at it is giving people a rundown of the kind of thing your game involves.

I'm not going to present a game as PG-13 and then go into detailed descriptions of body horror. But I'm not going to pitch a high fantasy game and then drop the players into Alpha Complex either. Letting people know what a campaign about is a good thing.

You don't even need to look at triggers particuarly. A lot of it comes down to "I wouldn't find this fun". If you hate Kender I'm not going to drop you into the Kender village to help you "get over it".

I don't have a problem with "anything goes" games, I just think they need to be advertised as such. And personally I'd need to know the GM very well, mostly because experience suggests that at least 70% of games calling themselves "adult" mean "puerile".

I would rather people weren't stupid enough to try and help me get over my only actual "trigger", which is strangulation in real life and stuff like people putting their hands near my neck. Mostly because last time someone unintentionally triggered it I swung back without meaning to and broke their nose. And I felt bad.

 

[BedrockBrendan]

I actually agree, but anyone who expresses any sort of "oh of course you're triggered by something, that's trendy right now, you're just faking it for attention" views counts as an asshole in my book.

I undetstand. This is why I don't think it is useful to get into specific examples, because I can't get into an individuals head and know with certainty whether they are legitimately having a problem with something or doing it for attention. Also I don't like singling people out, especially in the social media age. But I think it is useful to talk about how it seems more people are doing something like this for attention when it is becoming a trend. That is a pattern I feel like I am seeing very clearly (again, like I said in response to another post, really more in the wake of consent in gaming, than X Card, but those two things have been kind of bound up together now under the umbrella of 'safety tools')

 

[hawkeyefan]

I am not a therapist or a psychiatrist. I wouldn't attempt to deal with someones' real world psychological issues in a game. To me that isn't the place for it. I can give them my compassion, I can listen to them. But I can't turn the gaming table into a healing sessions. I don't have the expertise. Most GMs, most designers, most gamers, don't. That is something to talk with a therapist about.

Sure, I agree. I think that's part of the reasons behind these things.

So do folks who may have an issue of some sort, or even just a preference, just have to avoid RPGs in public? Like how do you think the industry should handle this if not through the use of formal safety tools?

If you were running a convention, how would you handle it? Just leave it up to the individual GMs' judgment? Have a "PG-13" approach established from the start? Something else?

 

[BedrockBrendan]

This is a legitimate argument. I would have to think about it, because there is definitely a balance that needs to be struck between supporting people who need support at the table, and not-- as you point out-- encouraging people to make themselves more fragile than life has already made them. I think starting from a place of content disclosure, rather than trigger disclosure, is a good idea. I think having an informal "ratings system" on multiple axes, as proposed above, is a good idea.

That's a conversation that adults should have. It's too bad the conversation largely isn't being had by adults.

I greatly appreciate this kind of thoughtful response

 

[BedrockBrendan]

Domestic violence isn't covered by the premise of "Mafia game". Someone could sign up for a Mafia game that has specific trauma related to domestic violence and no trauma related to gun violence. They go "hey cool, robbers, hits, taking out rival gangs, and being part of the 'Family', sounds fun" and get hit with something that hits a personal trigger.

Again, it isn't about less or more damage. It is about the expectations of what a Mafia game will have in it, and not expecting their specific trauma to be a part of the game.

I think mafia genre is a bit tricky because it seems to operate in PG and R mode. But I've always run and expected mafia games to be run, in R: because characters are criminals and bad people. Domestic violence is a pretty common trope in mafia movies. It is a big plot point in the godfather. It comes up in Goodfellas and Casino, and in the Sopranos one of the characters kills a stripper he gets pregnant when she says she loves him. And that is just the issue of domestic violence. You have all kinds of other horrible things being done in mafia films. Characters kill each other, torture each other, torment local business owners and threaten them, frequent strip clubs, own brothels, etc. Plus mafia movies have a very dark, gallows humor about it all. So I think with mafia genre, that is one where if you are sensitive to any of these topics, it is one to avoid or one to make sure you are in a mafia PG group. It is a genre that revels in being transgressive and insensitive. But I think it doesn't really feel like mafia unless you are doing it in R mode.

 

[Dammit Victor]

Robocop had to be submitted to the MPAA eleven times before they'd give it an R rating. I have always wanted to run a real sleazy sword & sorcery game with that kind of energy, but... I've just never had a gaming group where I would have been really comfortable going there, for every value of there I'm thinking of.

 

[Ladybird]

I undetstand. This is why I don't think it is useful to get into specific examples, because I can't get into an individuals head and know with certainty whether they are legitimately having a problem with something or doing it for attention. Also I don't like singling people out, especially in the social media age. But I think it is useful to talk about how it seems more people are doing something like this for attention when it is becoming a trend. That is a pattern I feel like I am seeing very clearly (again, like I said in response to another post, really more in the wake of consent in gaming, than X Card, but those two things have been kind of bound up together now under the umbrella of 'safety tools')

My personal gut feeling is to give people the benefit of the doubt, unless they've made it clear they're taking the piss or are otherwise trying to exploit me. What have I got to lose? I either help someone or let them make a fool of themselves.

A few years back my employer was moving offices, and some of us got sent to the new place to look around and ask any questions folks had. One question I was asked to relay was "is there something to stop birds flying into the windows?", so I asked the question, got an answer, and included it in my presentation when I got back.

The guy that had asked me then burst out laughing, say that he'd only asked it as a joke. "I don't see what's so funny", I replied, "you had a question, and I got an answer for you. Because that was my job. Would you rather I had just ignored you?".

I think mafia genre is a bit tricky because it seems to operate in PG and R mode. But I've always run and expected mafia games to be run, in R: because characters are criminals and bad people. Domestic violence is a pretty common trope in mafia movies. It is a big plot point in the godfather. It comes up in Goodfellas and Casino, and in the Sopranos one of the characters kills a stripper he gets pregnant when she says she loves him. And that is just the issue of domestic violence. You have all kinds of other horrible things being done in mafia films. Characters kill each other, torture each other, torment local business owners and threaten them, frequent strip clubs, own brothels, etc. Plus mafia movies have a very dark, gallows humor about it all. So I think with mafia genre, that is one where if you are sensitive to any of these topics, it is one to avoid or one to make sure you are in a mafia PG group. It is a genre that revels in being transgressive and insensitive. But I think it doesn't really feel like mafia unless you are doing it in R mode.

This is why up-front content warnings are an important tool; let people know you're running a mafia-inspired game, let them know the level you're going in for, explain what you mean by that for folk who might not already be familiar with the genre. In this case the safety tools are also helping you as a GM because you can let everyone know the level you're going for in advance, and get players who are keen for that sort of game.

 

[CRKrueger]

You don't even need to look at triggers particuarly. A lot of it comes down to "I wouldn't find this fun". If you hate Kender I'm not going to drop you into the Kender village to help you "get over it".

Neither Brendan or I ever suggested that you exercise someone’s triggers or phobias in an attempt to help them get over it. That’s the exact antithesis of the argument.

 

[Ravenswing]

I am not a therapist or a psychiatrist. I wouldn't attempt to deal with someones' real world psychological issues in a game. To me that isn't the place for it. I can give them my compassion, I can listen to them. But I can't turn the gaming table into a healing sessions. I don't have the expertise. Most GMs, most designers, most gamers, don't. That is something to talk with a therapist about.

+1.

I've gone through the topic, and hrrrmmm ... well. I have always had, respective to the rest of the hobby, an unusual number of female players, about a third of my player base over the years. To my certain knowledge, a third of them were sexually assaulted/molested (and I'd make no warranty about the other two-thirds). So I avoid rape tropes, beyond the abstract. My wife's best friend hanged himself on the main bridge in her hometown, so in groups she's in I avoid dwelling on hanging people.

But other than that, look: this is a hobby that involves a whopping lot of depictions of violence. There's certainly racism, and the whole spectrum of man's inhumanity to man. A player who really does have "triggers" so deep that he or she's likely to freak out at their depiction around a gaming table has a responsibility to talk it over with the GM in advance. Similarly, such players ought not be indulging in convention runs or one-shots, or if so need to pick out genres less likely to prove burdensome. A Toon, an original Star Trek game, Golden Age supers, 1930s pulp, those are genres less likely to run into some of those problems. (While, granted, coming into others: Thirties pulp, run straight, sure isn't the genre for those seeking to avoid casual and pervasive racism.)

When it comes down to it, though, around my table, is that I have a strong ethic that I run what I want, using the system I want, the genre I want, the style I want, at the time I want, in the location I want. Those who can buy in to that are welcome. Those who can't I wish well in finding campaigns more suited to their preferences. There've been times, in the adventures I present, where PCs have found the severed heads of NPCs of whom they were fond. There've been times when the cute 8 year old died horribly. There've been times when everyone in the sympathetic village has died of disease. Like any other dramatist, I know and use the power of pathos, where and as I feel appropriate. I would never think to question anyone who needs a more G-rated campaign for their escapism. Never. But they do need to find a table other than mine.

 

[AsenRG]

Look, man, I actually like you.

Why, thank you!
For the record, I mostly have positive associations about your handle as well.

I really am inclined to give you the benefit of the doubt, but you're not leaving me any doubt for you to benefit from. The callous and vapid position you've staked out, and the arguments you're using to justify it, all boil down to the fact because whatever serious personal trauma you've lived through in the past-- and man, I'm not trying to compare scars-- has led you to believe that you know better and have the moral right to override people who are telling you (hypothetically) that they're not ready to handle games about their shit, and want a way to inform you that they're punching out.

Ahem, no, that's not what I'm telling you. That's as much of misunderstanding as me misunderstanding Norton's position to mean "one of these scars is worse".
In fact, I don't think I've ever said what I would do in the hypothetic situation where someone might want to use an X-card... I only said it's theory to me.

What I did do was telling you what I, as a "lay person" (as in, "not a medical professional") think would benefit them most. But you'd note that I don't insist they should follow said advice. I'm talking on a forum.
What I'd do in a real game? Well, either stop running or, if it's just one person, suggest he's not the good fit for the group...because in all likelihood, one of us isn't a good fit for the other, if we managed to reach that level of "not clicking" in a convention game! (That's what we're talking about, right? Because in a regular game I'd probably know about those issues...and there would have been Session Zero).

But above all: I'd consider it a failure of my pre-game speech/game pitch (for convention games) if it ever came up. That would mean someone didn't get the message somehow (and I need to be more explicit, or possibly add some content warnings).

Of course, I'm talking about games with adults, here. When someone doesn't show consideration in the presence of people below the age of majority - my personal threshold - fun things can happen...well, fun to me as GM, at any rate.

It's not a matter of being a Good person or a Bad person, it's a matter of speaking Right or Wrong. If your beliefs and your attitudes and your actual in-game practices are not cruel and stupid, you are expressing them cruelly and stupidly, and I am responding to your argument with all the respect it is due.



See, man, nobody's asking you or Dr. Kreuger to be their therapist. I'm asking you to stop appointing yourself to that position because you think you know what they need better than they're telling you what they need.

Yes. See above or the misunderstanding: I'm neither planning to be their therapist, nor am I willing to be anyone's ward.
I'd have to add, however, that people who talk about "wrongspeech" are slowly starting to create a negative trigger in my mind!

You run your games for fun, your players join your games for fun, so if someone tells you that you're making them too uncomfortable to have fun... I'm not going to tell you to change your game to accommodate them, man, but don't sit there and tell me that maybe their real therapeutic needs justify pushing them through something they're telling you they don't want to deal with.

But luckily, I'm not telling you that at all. Or like, I'm telling you that in my experience - I'm not willing to share what the problem was - avoiding it had only hurt me. But how anyone deals with his or her issues is not my job - it's the therapist's job!
What I'm not willing to become is a ward of anyone's psychic condition... I'd like to give as good content warnings as I can, because I'm not looking for a way to upset anyone. But after that holding me responsible for anyone's possible reaction...ain't going to fly.

Also: Everything Ravenswing wrote while I was posting.

 

[Dammit Victor]

I'd have to add, however, that people who talk about "wrongspeech" are slowly starting to create a negative trigger in my mind!

Just because all speech should be allowed doesn't mean that speech isn't subject to right or wrong. In fact, it is the very rightness or wrongness of speech that makes it so important that all speech must be allowed.

 

[Ladybird]

But above all: I'd consider it a failure of my pre-game speech/game pitch (for convention games) if it ever came up. That would mean someone didn't get the message somehow (and I need to be more explicit, or possibly add some content warnings).

Remember : the use of an in-session safety tool is not a failure state and is not a failure of either the player or GM. If someone uses an x card in your game then you haven't done anything wrong, it's just a communications glitch or an accidental stepping over the line. No blame or malice is being asserted, everyone has tried their best, there was just a mistake which needed fixing.

However, if someone uses an x card on something, and you then do double that thing in the next scene, yeah, that's your fault. Don't do that.

 

[CRKrueger]

I read the Consent in Gaming document because it was brought up earlier in this thread, and it is abhorrent.

I may look down on Xcards, my general thought is a well-intentioned idea executed a little horribly and a little stupidly.

But the Consent in Gaming document is nothing short of infantilism and I think, predatory

 

[Ladybird]

I may look down on Xcards, my general thought is a well-intentioned idea executed a little horribly and a little stupidly.

How do you feel that the concept could be improved?

 

[Skywalker]

That particular incident would not have been solved by safety tools. That GM was a dick and would have continued to be so with safety tools. This actually is one of my issues with them; they're presented as much more of a universal panacea then they actually are.

They wouldn’t have avoided the problem, but they would have helped. Even if from the perspective of the organisers who were reviewing the situation afterwards.

I mean it’s not like a Code of Conduct actually makes people act in compliance with it at all times. Yet having shared understanding of what is acceptable and what isn’t is a useful and commonly adopted tool in many organised group activities.

 

[CRKrueger]

How do you feel that the concept could be improved?

 

[AsenRG]

Oh, and I just received an answer from the GM I mentioned before. Transcribing by memory and translating, because it was a conversation.

"If it helps them, sure...personally, I see it as useless, because I don't see how a person with such heavy anxiety would ever go to a con game with strangers - and if it's a game with a regular group, you've got better options, like pre-campaign discussion, where you should really let the GM know if you find some content triggering".

I suspect she also sees you as w.e.i.r.d. people!

Remember : the use of an in-session safety tool is not a failure state and is not a failure of either the player or GM. If someone uses an x card in your game then you haven't done anything wrong, it's just a communications glitch or an accidental stepping over the line. No blame or malice is being asserted, everyone has tried their best, there was just a mistake which needed fixing.

However, if someone uses an x card on something, and you then do double that thing in the next scene, yeah, that's your fault. Don't do that.

Sorry, I'd still see it as failure of my pre-game speech. (Not to mention that there are exactly zero "in-session safety tools" in my games). I put (up with) content warnings in order not to bother with such worries during the session.

So if it ever happens, I suspect the existence of the next scene would be under question.

 

[CRKrueger]

Hey AsenRG , I just heard about the “Bulgarian Carrot” which is about as hot as Arbol Chiles. Is Bulgarian cuisine particularly spicy? Do you guys have your own version of Goulash or something else which uses these peppers?

 

[EmperorNorton]

"If it helps them, sure...personally, I see it as useless, because I don't see how a person with such heavy anxiety would ever go to a con game with strangers - and if it's a game with a regular group, you've got better options, like pre-campaign discussion, where you should really let the GM know if you find some content triggering".

Heavy anxiety isn't the issue? Like, I'm not sure what that is even about. People can have specific things that they have problems with, and not have heavy anxiety. People can have internalized the tendency to "not rock the boat" if everyone is having fun without having heavy anxiety?

Like, this it just such a weird jump that X-Cards are for people with heavy anxiety when that... isn't what it is about?

 

[Voros]

I think there would be less pushback against the X card if it wasn’t called a “safety” tool. As a tool for helping ensure everyone is happy and comfortable it’s fine. Especially if you’re playing a game like Kult that pushes boundaries.

But “safety” is hyperbolic and naturally receives pushback.

I’m not convinced that is unintentional.

Considering that the guy who designed the x-card is also the exact same guy who investigated and disproved the wild online claims about Grim Jim that was widely shared and help stop the internet mob in its tracks, I think you're making a huge assumption about the creator's intentions.

If you are referring to some vague 'they' on the net I think most would say a tool is not responsible for those who misuse it.

 

[TJS]

Considering that the guy who designed the x-card is also the exact same guy who investigated and disproved the wild online claims about Grim Jim that was widely shared and help stop the internet mob in its tracks, I think you're making a huge assumption about the creator's intentions.

If you are referring to some vague 'they' on the net I think most would say a tool is not responsible for those who misuse it.

I'm not really making any assumptions about the creator. For all I know he never called it a 'safety tool' itself'. My assumptions are more about the discourse around the topic itself.

 

[AsenRG]

View attachment 28717
Hey AsenRG , I just heard about the “Bulgarian Carrot” which is about as hot as Arbol Chiles. Is Bulgarian cuisine particularly spicy? Do you guys have your own version of Goulash or something else which uses these peppers?

Food...OK, we're on thePub after all!
You got me in the thread again by talking about food! Curse you, CRK, I'll get you for that!

More to the point: Bulgarian cuisine is varied as all hell - we're on a crossroad, for good and ill...
Many fooddstuffs have spiced and not-spiced versions. You can live your whole life here and eat spicy every day...or never in your life. There's enough options!

Like, you can get some "ghoulash-like" meals - there's options - made with spicy peppers, or with non-spicy peppers. There's garlic, pepper, chilli, onions, products from them, and combinations of them. And there's some less spicy stuff, too.
As an example, pickled spicy peppers are used quite a bit as "small bites" to go with hard alcohol (nothing else, just pickled spicy peppers and vodka/rakia/whisky/rhum). Or were, the younger generation doesn't do that as often, I think.
Due to young kids, I usually consume most food with raw garlic and/or raw chilli peppers instead of going for special spicy recipes. That should change as they grow up. But alas, for now I'm making do with what's available!


As to how spicy it can get...I'm one of those who eat the spicy variety whenever possible. When in Thailand, I was able to consume the local food without issues (though I suspect they were holding back the good stuf on me)...and as a result, my verdict was "slightly spicy unless you add lots of it".
The other people I was travelling with had...different estimates. But then I noticed they often didn't go for the spicy options.
Indian and Mexican restaurants are among my favourites for this very reason. In Indian ones, I usually stay within 3-4 peppers for best results: I like the taste of 5-peppers stuff, but I'm not used to consuming it, so I'd need about a week of "preparation" before going there.
OTOH, I really, really, really like my Habanero and Jalapeno sauces...all rumours that I'm only saying that until I get them in the bed are totally untrue and are being spread by the evil tongues!

Heavy anxiety isn't the issue? Like, I'm not sure what that is even about. People can have specific things that they have problems with, and not have heavy anxiety. People can have internalized the tendency to "not rock the boat" if everyone is having fun without having heavy anxiety?

Like, this it just such a weird jump that X-Cards are for people with heavy anxiety when that... isn't what it is about?

Come on, man, she only heard about that concept today, by me...
That's as much as I was able and willing to explain, especially while we were both at work.

 

[Silent Green]

Well, what I'm taking away from this kerfuffle it that you all are playing far darker and edgier games than I've ever encountered.

And the way my playground acquaintance talks about her cooking, I'm not looking forward to a next life as a Bulgarian laying hen.

 

[Skywalker]

Well, what I'm taking away from this kerfuffle it that you all are playing far darker and edgier games than I've ever encountered.

There are a bunch of factors that I am guessing separate the kinds of games where safety tools are more commonly used. Games that deal with dark and edgy topics is one, but I think its not the main one.

Instead, I think the primary factors are games played with strangers. This used to be limited to conventions, clubs and store demos. However, there has been a recent explosion of remote gaming with strangers due to the pandemic.

Another is the rise of games where all players are contributing to and creating the story directly not just the GM. In these cases, the GM doesn't have the level of control of game content the same way that they may have in a more traditionally run game.

Obviously, if you are a GM who always runs games in a traditional way for your home group, then these ideas may seem obvious and even unnecessary in your experience. However, most people do use these kinds of measures to some extent even if they don't characterise them as such. This is just one more example of an attempt to demystify one aspect of the relatively complex hobby we enjoy.

 

[Silent Green]

However, most people do use these kinds of measures to some extent even if they don't characterise them as such.

Oh yes, much of what I've seen of these safety tools are just expressions of the common sense people have been using all along. That may be part of the reason why many react to them in a negative fashion.

 

[Ravenswing]

Just spoke to my wife about the topic, so I could get her take on it. As I mentioned uptopic, she does have a trauma for which I ease off a bit in my games. Beyond that, she’s an elementary school special needs teacher, who deals routinely with traumatized children. (And we’re not talking “Oooh, I get squicked out at the subject of violence” kids. We’re talking about kids who’ve been sexually assaulted from infancy, or kids who get smacked around by their abusive parents. THAT kind.)

She doesn’t have any use for X-cards. For one thing, she echoes the bit about players who feel their traumas are so deep they cannot abide their depiction around a gaming table needing to be selective in their gaming. She also said (echoing other comments posted here) that squicked out players can just take a walk or choose that time for a bathroom break, that it strikes her as a very easily abused mechanic, and that people with such traumas shouldn’t be gaming with utter strangers, and hold Session Zero discussions.

 

[Ravenswing]

And my (hopefully) final thoughts are these:

* First off, it’s lazy. People using such a mechanic aren’t attempting to mitigate their issues. They’re not attempting to find sympathetic GMs, or sympathetic genres, or – heck – avoiding the hobby altogether. They don’t have to use their words (and this in a hobby utterly, entirely dependent on words). And they’re unlikely to be seeking the professional help they really do need if they have traumas bubbling that hotly on the surface.

* Secondly, to some degree, I don’t buy it. I have a strong phobia: a near-paralytic fear of falling. You cannot get me to climb a tree higher than a couple dozen feet. I’m white knuckled just driving up a mountain, on a graded, paved autoroad. The bravest thing I’ve ever done? I’ve done high seas rescues in howling winter storms. I’ve been between warring parties in a drive-by shooting. I’ve been in knife fights. But the real bravest thing I ever did was during a college chorus party on the roof, and one gal was drunk out of her mind and dancing on the parapet, five stories above Huntington Avenue. I was the only sober one up there, and I went over to drag her off. The last dozen feet, I was on my hands and knees, because I couldn’t force myself to stand. (Probably if I hadn’t had a huge crush on her, I might not have been able to do it at all.)

But I’m a grown-ass adult. I can withstand a GM talking about us climbing a mountain. I can roleplay a mariner clinging to a topmast. I’m not actually there, and I don’t actually see it, and even though the mere subject has me breathing shallowly and quickly – remembering that terrified young guy pulling Di off the parapet, 41 years ago – I don’t need to shut down the screen and play solitaire instead.

And if I just couldn’t mitigate it, couldn’t control those images, felt them so strongly that a casual mention of heights had me shaking ... then I’d be in serious therapy right now, and likely avoiding such a potentially damaging hobby as RPGs.

 

[Skywalker]

Oh yes, much of what I've seen of these safety tools are just expressions of the common sense people have been using all along. That may be part of the reason why many react to them in a negative fashion.

Possibly, though I expect that many of them are coming from an environment where you can be safe in assuming a level of common sense that isn't found in all environments.

 

[Skywalker]

She also said (echoing other comments posted here) that squicked out players can just take a walk or choose that time for a bathroom break, that it strikes her as a very easily abused mechanic, and that people with such traumas shouldn’t be gaming with utter strangers, and hold Session Zero discussions.

People seem fixated on the X-Card, but its important to stress that it is probably the most rudimentary tool in this discussion.

In regard to walking away, that is a example of a safety tool. As I said above, we all seem to agree that a player leaving the table of things get uncomfortable for them is a good thing. So is there an issue with stating the obvious at the start of a game? It’s a relatively common part of such experiences for those in that situation may not actually want to get up and leave for fear of upsetting the rest of the group. Making an express statement at the start assists in helping that person doing what we all seem to agree is a good thing.

 

[TristramEvans]

How do you feel that the concept could be improved?

By not attempting to make it into a game mechanic.

I recognize the necessity in public functions, such as conventions, or other situations where strangers are gaming together, for certain standards to be addressed as far as generally appropriate content, potential conflicting social standards, and accomodating varyng comfort levels. I think, like any complex issue, the mistake is always accepting a simplistic answer as a "patch". Complex problems require complex answers.

Providing basic training in communication and arbitration skills, having games periodically monitered, and having clearly labelled content warnings and listed expectations are all, in my opinion, far more effective methods for a public venue to handle a variety of diverse situations, and also places more of the onus (rightly) on players taking responsibility for themselves and what game content they choose to expose themselves to. If a player attending a convention has specific special needs, then I think it would be good for a con to provide a method of matching special needs players up with GMs that will accomodate them from the outset.

 

[David Johansen]

I wonder if what's really needed is a gaming etiquette book. It seems to me that some of this stuff should be codified and written down somehow. Maybe playing in an open store group or a convention should require a terms of service contract or something. I don't know, I've seen some awful stuff over the years. Playing with disaffected youth who love transgressive humour only excuses so much depravity.

 

[TristramEvans]

I mean, there's no reason that needs to be gaming specific. Basic social etiquette lessons is something I greatly advocate being added to school curriculums...Y'know, if I didn't expect the concept to be co-opted immediately by ideologues.

It seems like social etiquette these days is pretty much just sink or swim rather than actually taught or adhering to a cultural standard. We had Emily Post when I was growing up. I know of no modern equivalent.

 

[Skywalker]

By not attempting to make it into a game mechanic.

I recognize the necessity in public functions, such as conventions, or other situations where strangers are gaming together, for certain standards to be addressed as far as generally appropriate content, potential conflicting social standards, and accomodating varyng comfort levels. I think, like any complex issue, the mistake is always accepting a simplistic answer as a "patch". Complex problems require complex answers.

Providing basic training in communication and arbitration skills, having games periodically monitered, and having clearly labelled content warnings and listed expectations are all, in my opinion, far more effective methods for a public venue to handle a variety of diverse situations, and also places more of the onus (rightly) on players taking responsibility for themselves and what game content they choose to expose themselves to. If a player attending a convention has specific special needs, then I think it would be good for a con to provide a method of matching special needs players up with GMs that will accomodate them from the outset.

Safety measures are part of the social contract between players that has always existed in RPGs. Talking about them explicitly doesn't suddenly make them game mechanics.

I find it weird that the critics of safety measures in this thread focus on the X-Card, despite it being recognized as one of the most rudimentary measures available, and now you criticise the discussion of safety measures as being too simplistic. No one even suggested that this discussion should just be about and end with the X-Card. Its just one tool available.

In regard to your suggestions, they are all great but you are setting the bar so high for most RPG conventions and online gaming groups that they aren't all that helpful in practice. If you genuinely think that such ideas could actually be helpful because safety is a concern, then surely more practical measures that go someway toward helping the situation are still worthwhile considering, even if they aren't quite the level you suggest?

 

[TristramEvans]

Safety measures are part of the social contract between players that has always existed in RPGs. Talking about them explicitly doesn't suddenly make them game mechanics.

No...making them game mechanics does.

I find it weird that the critics of safety measures in this thread focus on the X-Card, despite it being recognized as one of the most rudimentary measures available, and now you criticise the discussion of safety measures as being too simplistic. No one even suggested that this discussion should just be about and end with the X-Card. Its just one tool available.

That IS what we're discussing though. If you want to bring up other "Safety Mechanics" there's nothing stopping you, and I'll give my reactions to those individually, but you are responding to my response to the Xcard mechanic itself.

In regard to your suggestions, they are all great but you are setting the bar so high for most RPG conventions and online gaming groups that they aren't all that helpful in practice.

Wow, I am really not. As someone involved in the organization of many business and corporate conventions and workshops, as well as corporate networking events through school, this is like bare minimum stuff in comparison.

 

[Endless Flight]

I don’t really see any downsides to the X card as long as it’s an optional safety tool. I’ve seen it mentioned in a couple RPGs but it’s nowhere near universal yet. It’s just a sort of formalized way of handling certain situations.

 

[xanther]

And now I'm picturing the shire is just full of stoned hobbits. OH MY GOD that's why they have so many meals! Second Breakfast is the munchies!

Now you know why Lord of the Rings motifs found there way into so many rock songs....

 

[xanther]

This thread is the first I have ever heard of X-Cards and safety measures, but wouldn't they just be a simple way for strangers to come up with some bounds on what we role play?

One could almost have the cards be short hand for what you are interested in and just group up with like minded people. I thinking conventions and pick up games here, perhaps even when you registered or the person running a game can check off which things are included.

 

[Skywalker]

Wow, I am really not. As someone involved in the organization of many business and corporate conventions and workshops, as well as corporate networking events through school, this is like bare minimum stuff in comparison.

Many RPG conventions and online gaming groups are run by volunteers and not for profit. It would be great to see them having the kinds of resources available in the corporate space that you are suggesting here, and I understand that some do, but many do not.

Regardless, my only real concern with what you said is a suggestion that there should be no safety tools unless they are at a certain standard. Though I agree that there can be risks in misusing them, having discussion and taking measures about these matters is generally a positive step forward. If you weren't suggesting that, then that's cool.