Sagas of the Galaxy Rangers - d20/OSR Space Fantasy

[Dammit Victor]

Continuing from this thread; starting a new thread because I've got a strong working title and a clearer picture of what I'm trying to accomplish.

Sagas of the Galaxy Rangers will be a space fantasy game/setting deeply in D&D tradition, planetary romance and space opera, and Japanese RPGs and anime. As a game specifically, I'm aiming for a hybrid of WotC/Paizo design with certain OSR principles-- looser, less gamish rules; focus on player ingenuity; objective oriented reward structures; fewer safety nets; referee tools to help support this playstyle.

Overview:

• Familiar d20 System, class/race/level, arcane/divine/primal magic with spell slots!
• "Psychic" powers and both mundane and magical "martial" maneuvers are common and part of the skill/feat system!
• "Bounded Accuracy" with more meaningful skill advancement!
• Aliens based on familiar D&D races/monsters with retro sci-fi twists!
• Realistic and dynamic social institutions based on late feudalism!

Appendix N:

• Multimedia Franchises: Star Wars (particularly Star Wars: Visions); Buck Rogers in the XXV Century; Star Trek
• Tabletop Roleplaying Games: D&D: Player's Option, Spelljammer, d20 Modern/Future, Dragonstar (FFG) PF: Pathfinder Unchained, Starfinder; Starjammer (d20PFSRD); Arcforge Campaign Setting (Legendary Games); Ultimate Psionics, Path of War & Path of War Expanded, Akashic Mysteries (Dreamscarred Press); Rogue Genius Games' Genius Guides to Talented Classes; Tipsy Tabby's Overhauling Multiclassing; Alternity Star•Drive (WotC); High Adventure Role Playing (ICE); Palladium's TMNT
• TV & Movies: Cowboy Bebop; Outlaw Star; Gene Roddenberry's Andromeda; BraveStarr; Record of Lodoss War; Firefly & Serenity; Jupiter Ascending; Battle Beyond the Stars; Message From Space; Marvel's Guardians of the Galaxy; Valerian and the City of 1,000 Planets;
• Video Games: Phantasy Star series; Final Fantasy series (especially Final Fantasy Tactics); Cosmic Fantasy 2; Metroid series; Jade Empire and Mass Effect series;

Details in the next couple of posts.

 

[Dammit Victor]

We'll start with the setting-- Sagas of the Galaxy Rangers takes places in a spiral galaxy, pretty similar to our own. The extradimensional cosmology is pretty simple: the Material Plane, the Churn (elemental planes), the Infinite Heavens and Hells-- legitimate theologians insist there's a difference-- and plane that's the Feywild and the Far Realm that also contains the Shadowfell and the Quasielemental Plane of Radiance as "poles". Only this last plane, and only the shallowest portions at that, are survivable by mortals employing mortal means.

---

Empires and Commonwealth

By conservative estimates, the $NAME Galaxy contains hundreds of billions of stars, and tens of millions of inhabitable planets. While this varies from species to species, most worlds are governed by monarchies-- by convention, the rulers of moons are Princes/Princesses or Dukes/Duchesses, the rulers of planets are Kings and Queens, and rulers of multiple planets are Emperors and Empresses. These rulers are not absolute, and they all have their own nobles, priests, guilds and other political interests they have to juggle if they want to keep their thrones and their heads.

The Galactic Commonwealth is a union between hundreds of thousands of these planetary governments, started centuries ago for the purposes of securing borders and trade routes, but has slowly evolved into a rudimentary federal republic and a genuine-- if inconsistent-- force for liberty and justice. The Commonwealth is governed by the Parliament, whose members are appointed by the recognized rulers of the Commonwealth's member-states-- and can not be recalled or expelled except by the Parliament itself.

The Parliament sponsors-- "administers" would be overstating-- the (pending name) Starfleet, the Commonwealth's peacekeeping force. The Starfleet is responsible for the actual enforcement of the Commonwealth's laws, and more importantly, upholding its ideals. Starfleet officers (or their sponsors) must purchase their commissions, and officers swear magically binding oaths of loyalty to the Commonwealth and Starfleet itself. Most Starfleet officers are honorable people, if not above taking a bribe or two; their oaths don't allow them to really go bad, which is a blessing since nobody else has the power to police them. When Starfleet officers do manage to go bad... nobody else has the power to police Starfleet, so Starfleet polices its villains like the fist of an angry God.

The titular Galaxy Rangers are teams of freelance mercenaries employed by Starfleet as troubleshooters. They're player characters. It's dangerous and thankless work, but it's a good way to save up for a shiny new starship-- and an officer's commission.

---

Church & State

The Commonwealth has two official State religions, but it denies it; the two religions are completely unrelated, and maintain separate organizations and hierarchies, but the government and the leadership of both churches insist they are the singular official religion of all of the people of the Commonwealth.

The Church (working title; the final title will be generic, but not that generic) is basically a form of Anime Catholicism, worshiping an all-powerful (but absentee) Crystal Dragon Jesus through personal relationships with Its angelic intermediaries. Laying the Catholic imagery on real thick here, but also filtering it heavily through anime tropes. There are dozens of priestly and knightly orders within the Church, covering most D&D stereotypes of "goodly" religions, though their angelic patrons have little influence over elemental or natural forces.

The Way (again, working title) is a more contemplative religion, based on cultivating personal virtue through discipline, reason, and compassion. They believe in getting closer to the Creator by trying to understand the Creator, and trying to understand the Creator by understanding Creation. They prefer simple clothing, shelter, and lifestyles-- but many Wayists feel spiritually compelled to travel the stars. In D&D terms, their priests look a lot like a cross between Monks (especially the Priest Monks in Spells & Magic) and Specialty Priests of deities like Celestian, Zuoken, or Ptah.

The Church has its Clerics and the Way has its Monks, though multiclassing between them is possible. Paladins must be priests of both religions, and may multiclass with either or both.

There are, of course, unofficial religions in the Commonwealth as well. While the Draconic Houses employ many mortal (or other) servitors in a strictly professional capacity, many people choose to worship the dragons they serve-- and the dragons coolly welcome this worship, and bestow magical power on their most competent and effective worshipers. Dragon worship is incompatible with the Church, though many dragon-worshipers follow the Way; dragons demand their agents show priests the same professional courtesy the dragons themselves do.

Something, something, genies.

Of course, in addition to the Infinite Heavens, there are also the Infinite Hells. Organized devil worship is very rare, but solitary nutcases frequently make pacts with devils and then do a lot of damage before dying horribly. Of the few that are taken alive, the more lucid ones try to justify their actions by claiming that they, too, serve the Creator as much as any humble servant of the Church.

There are some species-specific religious details, too: dwarves practice a form of ancestor worship that they assert is inseparable from proper worship of the Creator. Elves are incapable of worship-- or reverence, or awe-- on a biological level, and thus do not practice mortal religions and cannot pursue any of the divine or primal professions; draugh eladrin are an exception to this, by virtue of deliberate genetic modification, which is the reason for the Elven Civil War. Lizardfolk produce a significantly disproportionate number of Monk/Druids and Monk/Sorcerers.

Computer technology and cybernetics are very advanced in the Commonwealth, but true autonomous intelligence is impossible without a soul-- so any computer system that is required to act independently needs a mortal soul to supplement its programming. This has spawned a (mostly human) faith in its own right, is highly controversial within both the Church and the Way, and is anathema to the dragons. This religion doesn't have spellcasting priests, but its adherents do literally get to live forever, if they can afford it, so there's that.

 

[Simon Hogwood]

Have you considered just calling it the "Star Fleet"?

 

[Dammit Victor]

Have you considered just calling it the "Star Fleet"?

No. It doesn't really solve my problem, you know?

 

[Dammit Victor]

Peoples of the Galaxy

Of course, most of these are going to be the playable species.

Humans are the most populous species, because they're always the most populous species. I haven't messed with them much this time-- they get more general/cross-class widgets than other species, get extra ability score increases for their "off" stats, and get more technique and action points than other species. They dress like a Renn Faire, the Cheyenne Gunslingers, and a Star Trek convention played strip poker and got dressed in the dark.

Eladrin (elves, XPH elan and xeph) aren't native to the Material Plane. They are fey from the Outside who have slipped into the Material Plane through nebulas throughout Known Space. Their massive city-ships are not members of the Commonwealth, and they never will be; besides the centuries-long unanimous objection of the Draconic Bloc, a little over a century ago they launched an enormous, coordinated campaign that destroyed hundreds of urukhai homeworlds, along with their orcish and non-orcish inhabitants. Elves are pale, grey-skinned coneheads a little over six-and-a-half feet tall, with foot-long ears (you know what they say about an elfmaid whose ears are wider than her shoulders, don't you?) and glossy, jewel-toned hair that grows from the back of their heads, behind and below their ears.

Elves are fast, clever, and hypnotic; they have all of the standard elf/eladrin abilities. They have the ability to produce mageblades and perform short-range teleports without training. They're restricted from divine classes (they're neurologically incapable of worship) and primal classes (dragons hate them), and they are required to be both martial and arcane at character creation, however they accomplish it.

Dvergr (dwarves; singular dverg) are mortal humanoids, just under five-and-a-half feet tall, who look like angry grey-blue-black furbies. They have full manes and luxurious beards of a different color than their body fur, glowing red eyes, and mostly harmless beaks. Dvergr mostly evolved underground, and mostly on high-gravity planets with hellish sunlight; consequently, they can only see dimly in the infrared light spectrum and their primary sense is gravimetric. Dvergr are the only subterranean species to have independently developed space travel because, even deep underground, they could always see the stars-- and tell you how much they weighed.

Gnome (gnome, kender, Alternity fraal) are small, bulbous-headed gray humanoids with large black eyes and white or pastel-colored hair. Male and female gnomes alike wear tall conical hats at all times. Gnomes are relentlessly cheerful and optimistic, though they're better at emotionally understanding probabilities and risk than humans are. They do not feel sorrow, or anger, or fear the way other species do; their bodies register both minor and more serious injuries, but not in a way that other sentients would describe as "pain".

Gnomes are telepathic, and unlike most telepaths, sensitive enough that they can telepathically communicate with non-telepathic beings. (Telepathy is the darkvision of SGR.)

Gnomes have eidetic memories and highly advanced mathematical abilities-- and a passionate rivalry with the dverg for the title of best warp astrogators in the Commonwealth.

Dromite (XPH dromite, halfling) are small, bug-like humanoids with chitinous plates, faceted eyes, and antennae. Dromites are a telepathic, eusocial species; over 99% of dromites are gender-neutral squires, and each dromite hive has (at most) a couple dozen male princes and a single queen for tens of thousands of squires.

Dromites have limited flight abilities that can improve with level, and gain/grant additional bonuses when working together with allies. They are also even luckier than humans.

Gremlins (goblin/monkey goblin, AD&D kobold) are horrible, small monkey-people with large ears and tiny horns. Their skin, like all goblinoids, is mostly covered with lightly-colored fur. Gremlins can use their double-thumbed hands and feet, or their prehensile tails, to control several tools simultaneously and independently.

Gremlins' ability to build and repair mechanical and electronic systems is remarkable, but their ability to subvert and destroy those systems is downright supernatural. Gremlins have traditionally worked for offerings of food and parts left in the engine (or server) rooms of ships, but modern reforms have encouraged most of them to accept their payment in credits-- but only if left unattended in their workspaces.

Hobgoblins (hobgoblin, ogre mage) are tall, wiry humanoids that bear the same range of skin colors as gremlins-- without the layer of fur. Also like gremlins and bugbears, hobgoblins have horns sprouting from their foreheads, but hobgoblin horns are longer and thinner. Hobgoblins have the same rigidly hierarchical, militaristic culture they're known for in D&D, plus a penchant for stealth and illusion/anti-divination magic.

Hobgoblins occupy a tenuous place in the Commonwealth; hobgoblins serving in Starfleet or the Commonwealth's bureaucracies are among the best of the best, but hobgoblins who don't serve the Commonwealth are frequently among the worst of the worst exploiting it.

Bugbear (D&D bugbear, maybe more?) are the largest (M + powerful build) of the goblinoids, with the usual goblinoid traits (skin, ears, horns) and thick, shaggy fur. They are predators and bullies who savor-- and literally feed upon-- the fear of their victims. They enjoy the same fearsome martial reputation as their smaller cousins, but they don't play well with others or function well inside authority structures; thus, they are disproportionately represented in the Galaxy Rangers and other small paramilitary occupations.

Urukhai (orcs, trolls; orc sorcerer and arcane bloodrager bloodline) are twisted living weapons created by the ghaele eladrin to put an end to the draugh insurrection once and for all. They used eldritch biomantic magics and bleeding-edge genetic manipulation technologies-- far beyond what they've shared with the people of the Material Plane-- to transmute their political prisoners into terrible monsters and program them to hunt down their former associates. A little over a century ago, the elves tried to cover up their mistake by destroying hundreds of worlds that the orcs had settled (with other species) on.

Orcs are shaped very much like elves, though they are much more heavily muscled and their hunched posture makes them look shorter. The elves took away their external ears and their lustrous hair, and they replaced their delicate noses and mouths with the articulated mouth-parts of the arachnid creatures from draugh iconography. Over successive generations, their brainwashing has worn off-- leaving them free to hate the ghaele and the draugh on their own terms. After the Great Culling, the urukhai are an almost exclusively ship-bound culture; they don't have any homeworlds to call their own, and the survivors don't dare stop moving again.

Lizardfolk (real name pending; lizardfolk, DSP rana/ophiduan) are one of the most scientifically and technologically advanced species in the Commonwealth; the ruthless pragmatism of their D&D archetype has evolved into a form of hyper-rational but enlightened self-interest. Physically, they're the same six-foot-tall bipedal iguanas they've always been, but psychologically they're like a combination of the Nietzscheans from Andromeda and the Vulcans from Star Trek.

Lizardfolk are one of the major forces for good in the Commonwealth because, the longer term you consider civilization, what is the most good for the greatest number of people, logically, always becomes what's the most optimal for their own interests.

---

I'd like to have something similar to the thri-kreen, and I'd like to have a couple of larger species like half-ogres or goliaths.

I'd also love to hear some feedback about OGL-compliant monsters that would make good alien PCs.

Oh, also, Chaotic Good psychic cephalopod-headed humanoids with a deeply disconcerting Credo of monomaniacal altruism.

 

[Dammit Victor]

Systemic Nonsense

This is, for all intents and purposes, a D&D game. The system's going to be real familiar to anyone who enjoys Midwestern folk art, but there are some specifics:

• I'm using eight ability scores (splitting DEX and WIS), and borrowing the ICE trick of adding two ability modifiers to every check.
• Race/Class/Level. Unified XP tables, levels go up to 36. Multiclassing is 4e style, both PHB1 and PHB3.
• Skill system is based on the Grouped Skills and Skill Unlocks variant from Pathfinder Unchained, leaning more on the unlocks than the bonuses.
• All the class-based "numbers go up" stuff (BAB, defense, saves, skills) go up +1/3 levels. Classes give starting bonuses at 1st level and different options for widget bonuses.
• This game uses progression widgets. I'm not calling them feats, but they're totally feats. They come in tiers:
  • Talents: These are skill slots, boring little bullshit feats, and so forth. Bunch of them at 1st, plus one every odd level.
  • Edges: These are big juicy feats, scaling feats. A few at 1st level, one at 2nd, plus one every fourth level.
  • The third, biggest tier of widget is the equivalent of kit, archetype, subclass, prestige class, paragon path, epic destiny. One at 1st, one every ninth.
• I don't know how I want to handle level-based Ability Score Increases, besides knowing I want to have them. Generally, I'm thinking either something like Conan d20 with +1 to X abilities alternating to +1 to all abilities at specific levels, something like Dragon Fist's primary/secondary/tertiary increases, or tying them to Talents.

Hit Dice

I'm still working out the details, but I'm using the concept of Hit Dice from 5th Edition except, like healing surges in 4th Edition, all healing requires the expenditure of Hit Dice. The "tough class" and dvergr have improved self-healing, healers can allow characters to heal in combat or improve their resting healing, and Paladins can spend their own HD to heal other characters.

Hit Dice are not tied directly to hit point total. Characters get (quite a bit) more than one at 1st level, and gain them at a rate less than one per level.

General Combat & Magic Stuff

• Critical hits will be a thing, probably starting from 3.X and modifying from there.
• I want to use the massive damage threshold concept from d20 Modern, and I want to use the condition track concept, but I'm not sure about the implementation. Bloodied will be a significant mechanic.
• Weapons will do damage based on class of weapon and class of wielder. Proficiency will modify this, somehow.
• Energy weapons will do 2dX damage, as a general rule, and pouring more shots into an attack will increase the number of dice.
• AC from armor/natural armor stacks with class defense; armor also grants damage reduction and bonuses on saves versus massive damage.
  • DR from armor is more effective against multi-shot attacks and area-of-effect attacks; yes, DR applies to (most) energy damage.
• Energy Resistance is a hybrid of 3.X and 5e. You have "(energy) resistance x"; energy damage less than or equal to X is negated, energy damage greater than X is halved. At no point is subtraction involved.

Spellcasting Stuff

• Spellcasting generally works like 5e (minus cantrips) with some caveats:
  • Ritual spells always take time but might not always cost money. Utility spells that replace/enhance skill checks are especially suspect-- but I approve of how 5e has already nerfed the shit out of the ones I've seen.
  • Arcane spellcasters always prepare spells like 5e Wizards.
  • Divine spellcasters always know their entire spell list, like 3.X Warmages, but their spell lists are pared down and they rely heavily on their (multiple) Domains.
  • Primal spellcasters have limited spells known. But know more spells than arcanists prepare.
  • Cantrips are either promoted to 1st level spells or made part of the skill system.
  • Spells can scale with talent/edge selection as well as spell slot, but not typically with caster level.
• Really rudimentary versions of Path of War (the PF version of Tome of Battle) and Akashic Mysteries (the PF version of Magic of Incarnum) are baked into the default classes and the talent/edge system. These are called "techniques" and are less class-restricted than spells.
  • This is where mageblades fit into the system-- they're not really common in the world, but should be fairly common amongst NPCs of a certain level. Elves and Paladins get this ability for free.
  • The gist is that all characters have a small number of Techniques, and a small pool of essentia they have to balance between the potency of their Techniques and the frequency with which they can use usage of them. Essentia points refresh on a short rest... minus the ones invested in Techniques. Investing more essentia into a Technique is a bonus action... withdrawing them is a short rest at least.
• Psionic feats (in both their 3.X and 5e incarnations) are baked into both the technique and spellcasting systems, which include concepts like "psionic focus" and "reserve feats".
  • Yes, I am aware that's just cantrips with more steps, but I'm going somewhere with it.

 

[Simon Hogwood]

Gnome (gnome, kender, Alternity fraal) are small, bulbous-headed gray humanoids with large black eyes and white or pastel-colored hair. Male and female gnomes alike wear tall conical hats at all times. Gnomes are relentlessly cheerful and optimistic, though they're better at emotionally understanding probabilities and risk than humans are. They do not feel sorrow, or anger, or fear the way other species do; their bodies register both minor and more serious injuries, but not in a way that other sentients would describe as "pain".

Gnomes are telepathic, and unlike most telepaths, sensitive enough that they can telepathically communicate with non-telepathic beings. (Telepathy is the darkvision of SGR.)

Gnomes have eidetic memories and highly advanced mathematical abilities-- and a passionate rivalry with the dverg for the title of best warp astrogators in the Commonwealth.

Most of the time trying to attach traditional fantasy-race names to more alien creatures irritates me, but I do like the modern trend of conflating gnomes with the Greys.

 

[Dammit Victor]

Classes and Class Stuff

I am definitely using "power source" and "role" just because these are convenient and orderly ways to understand how classes fit together.

Power Sources:

• Technique: These are powers derived from "pure" cultivated skill and intense training... but this also includes a lot of psychic/psionic nonsense which is, in-universe, the same thing.
  • Martial refers to classes with a lot of martial arts training and improved access to martial techniques which range from "just hit them, but like, really really hard" to "cut them with the abstract concept of your sword's sharpness".
    • Martial classes include the Juggernaut, Hunter, and Maverick. Semi-martial classes are the Paladin, Monk, Warlock, and Sorcerer.
  • Expertise refers to classes that have a lot of non-combat, non-magical skills like the Technician and the Diplomat. Expertise is more about narrative permissions than higher check bonuses.
    • Expertise classes include the Maverick, Technician, and Diplomat. Semi-expertise classes include the Magician and Hunter.
• Arcane classes create magical effects through manipulation of internal and ambient magical energy, which by extension means they pick up all of the psychic bullshit that Technique didn't claim first.
  • The Arcane classes are the Magician and Warlock.
• Divine classes channel the power of Creation through communion with (or emulation of) angelic beings. These powers mostly focus on healing, wisdom, and protection but sometimes wisdom is knowing when healing and protection start with wrecking a monster's shit.
  • Divine classes are the Cleric and the Monk. The Paladin is semi-divine.
• Primal classes are imbued with power over the raw elemental forces-- and living beings-- of the galaxy by beings of immense power: most often, either one of the scheming heads of the Draconic Houses or the mysterious extradimensional genies.
  • Druids and Sorcerers are primal.

Roles

Roles are more-or-less identical to their presentation in 4e, though I'm subdividing a little further just to keep my thoughts organized.

• Defenders protect their teammates by preventing opponents from reaching them, taking hits intended for them, and punishing enemies that try to attack them.
  • Juggernauts, Paladins, and some Technicians are primarily Defenders. Druids and Sorcerers can easily function as secondary defenders.
• Strikers end fights quickly by dealing massive damage.
  • Hunters, Mavericks, Warlocks, and Sorcerers are primary strikers. Juggernauts, Paladins, and Monks are solid backup strikers.
• Leaders keep their teammates alive and carry them to victory by healing them and granting them combat bonuses.
  • Diplomats, Clerics, and Druids are primary leaders. Monks, Paladins, and Juggernauts can be good secondary leaders
• Controllers help their allies in combat by disabling their enemies and setting them up for effective attacks from their allies.
  • Magicians, Druids, and Monks are primary controllers. Diplomats, Warlocks, and Sorcerers are good back secondary controllers.

The Classes Themselves:

• Juggernaut: Technique (martial) Defender, striker/leader. Biggest Hit Die, most Hit Points, Heavy Armor. Most effective with melee or short-range weapons.
• Hunter: Technique (martial/expert) Striker. Mediumarmor. Quarry, sneak attack, most effective at either melee range or extreme long range. Combines the D&D Ranger and Ninja/Assassin classes, can learn both spell lists.
• Maverick: Technique (martial/expert) Striker. Light armor. Rapid fire, hit and run, swashbuckler. More of the "trickster" side of D&D Rogue.
• Technician: Technique (expert) Controller/defender. No armor or heavy armor with armor training. Lots and lots of technical skills.
• Diplomat: Technique (expert) Leader/controller. No armor. Free multiclass. Lots of lots of social skills, leadership/support abilities. Educated.
  • "Social skills" are one of the biggest sticking points between OSR and non-OSR games; "play the world, not your sheet" and all that. My intent is for Diplomats to have more tools for learning how to convince NPCs, rather than "roll to convince".
• Magician: Arcane Controller, leader/striker. Prepares spells, excels at ritual and utility magic.
• Warlock: Arcane Striker, controller. Not the 5e Warlock. Prepares spells, excels at destructive and debilitating magic spells and techniques. Light armor, can upgrade.
• Cleric: Divine Leaders. Classic D&D Cleric, casts from their whole spell list, plus Domains, (optional) more Domains at higher levels. Turn Undead. There are evil Clerics, but there are no Clerics of Evil. Light armor, can upgrade.
• Monk: Divine Leader, striker/controller. Enlightened contemplative, no armor. Different spell knowledge mechanic than Cleric? Unarmed fighting skills, exorcism, telepathy.
• Paladin: Divine Defender, leader/striker. Heavy armor. Ordained priest in two different religions. Minor spellcaster. Radiant smite, lay on hands, mercies. Free mageblade.
• Druid: Primal Leader/Controller. Spontaneous caster. Light armor, no metal/plastic/electronics. Draconic or Genie specializations. Very limited wild shape and animal companion.
• Sorcerer: Primal Striker/Controllers. Spontaneous caster. No armor. Draconic or Genie specializations.

I am probably going to have to rethink the relationship between armor and spellcaster because, even though I favor the "jumpsuit and fishbowl" school of extravehicular couture I'm still pretty sure that still counts as armor. Certainly, while I think Druids should probably be limited to duraweave longcoats in combat, I'm also pretty sure that they should be able to cast spells on the Moon.

 

[Dammit Victor]

Bounded Accuracy

Running into a bit of a problem here. I am deeply committed to the "two ability scores" thing, so, I've got the following "basic" modifiers to any d20 roll:

Two Ability Modifiers: just like d20, these range from about -2 to about +5 at low levels, ranging to about +8 or +9 at higher levels.

Proficiency Bonus: looking at something between +2 and +6 at 1st, maybe +2 or +3 per extra slot.

Level Bonus: +1 every 3 levels, so +0 to +12.

So... looking at that, that leaves ability modifiers almost doubling proficiency bonuses at 1st level, and outpacing them from there, and non-level bonuses potentially falling off the d20 in the single-digit levels. This is less than ideal, isn't it?

Generally, I think I want maximum ability and maximum proficiency to maintain rough parity from level 1 to level 36 and I want the difference between zero investment and maximum investment to be less than +/- 20 for at least most of the level progression.

I'm really not sure how to accomplish these goals without abandoning the d20 and changing the system scaling entirely-- I think I can make this work in d%, like a heavily simplified ICE game, but I'm really trying to stick with the d20 and D&D-adjacent mechanics. I've actually got half an idea for making a slot-based ICE/dWd mashup hang together... but I want to avoid constantly changing engines in the middle of the race.

 

[Dammit Victor]

I've decided I have to kill my darlings, here: comparing all of the design goals I'd have to give up to keep my two-ability system, it just doesn't make sense.

So I'm going to try to trim down my list of abilities and only use a single ability per check. Probably going to go the 5e route of a single saving throw per ability score.

For definite, I am combining STR and CON and I am splitting dodge/initative DEX from precision/control DEX.

 

[thebigh]

I am splitting dodge/initative DEX from precision/control DEX.

Yes, there is definitely an argument to be made for not having Usain Bolt and David Helfgott controlled by the same attribute.

 

[Silverlion]

I've decided I have to kill my darlings, here: comparing all of the design goals I'd have to give up to keep my two-ability system, it just doesn't make sense.

So I'm going to try to trim down my list of abilities and only use a single ability per check. Probably going to go the 5e route of a single saving throw per ability score.

For definite, I am combining STR and CON and I am splitting dodge/initative DEX from precision/control DEX.

Speed, Coordination or Speed/Agility would work. Might works for Strength/Con merger. I think sense should be split from Wisdom, and Charisma from "mental strength" but you can go overboard and end up with 20 stats that way, or Palladium. Neither one are goals, I promise.

 

[Dammit Victor]

Might works, though I generally lean toward Physique.

I get agree with you about perception and "Wisdom"; I can see either folding it in with all of the technical and professional skills (which I normally make INT/WIS anyway) or separating educated intellect from natural instinct.

Likewise, I struggle with the boundary between "Wisdom" and "Charisma", especially when it comes to things like saving against charm versus saving against compulsion/abjuration, or where to put empathy/rapport skill. (If it helps, imagine the difference between a typical dwarf and a human paladin.)

I am still struggling with how to handle "social skills" as these are both the least OSR of all skills, and also an avenue of roleplay that I wish to provide mechanical support.

 

[VisionStorm]

Minor pet peeve and YMMV, but...

I'm not a fan of splitting up attributes, TBH. Specially if their functionality is already kinda limited already, like Wisdom in D&D. How many skills can you get out of Willpower and Perception, for example? And how extensive do you want or truly need skills to be?

IMO, that just tends to overcomplicate the system and stretch your resources when building your character by forcing you to pick between a dozen overly specific attributes and minute traits when prioritizing which abilities you want higher than the rest. Overly specific skills tend to create similar problems as well, plus they tend to rarely come up in actual play and create knowledge gaps in interrelated areas unless you invest in a dozen similar skills to avoid missing out.

If anything I'd limit attributes to just four abilities— Physical Power (Strength/Constitution), Physical Speed (Dexterity), Mental Power (Charisma/Willpower), Mental Speed (Intelligence/Perception)—and handle all specific stuff through skills and advantages (Feats, Talents, whatever you might call them). And make skills general, with specializations to handle specific stuff as extra bonuses.

 

[Dammit Victor]

If anything I'd limit attributes to just four abilities— Physical Power (Strength/Constitution), Physical Speed (Dexterity), Mental Power (Charisma/Willpower), Mental Speed (Intelligence/Perception)—and handle all specific stuff through skills and advantages (Feats, Talents, whatever you might call them). And make skills general, with specializations to handle specific stuff as extra bonuses.

I reckon that I can live with the Sacred Six if I make some adjustments-- Dexterity never, ever, ever adds to damage; professional skills, perception, and initiative go to Intelligence; Wisdom gets more stuff to do in terms of mysticism and sheer grit.

Looking at Weapons. As is my wont to do, I am attempting to put the finishing touches on something before I've even halfway figured out the foundations; this never works, but to my credit I am very, very stupid. I am not really satisfied with the traditional "weapons deal damage based on weapon type", but neither am I particularly satisfied with the basic implementation of "weapons deal damage based on wielder". I am going to have to figure out some compromise between the two, and... blaaah.

I've taken a very good bit of inspiration from Starfinder: in addition to the expected (and necessary) bit of having "energy weapons" for all of D&D's myriad energy damage types, SF also introduces a system where different weapons have different riders on critical hits. It also uses the Star Wars Saga system for multi-attacking, where you make however many attacks all at the same attack penalty. Unless I missed something, it seemingly lets you do this starting at 1st level.

Maybe do it by proficiency slots? Every weapon has a "basic" and a "martial" track, martial track's faster and deeper. Increases attack bonus, base damage dice, flat damage bonus, critical threat, critical multiplier/rider effect. Surprisingly, much shorter weapons list than BECMI, so I think I can pull this off.

I also want to do a thing, where iterative attacks/multi-attack isn't necessarily the default mode and maybe different "fighter builds" have different options for crowd-control and single-target striking-- like cleaving strikes, strafing fire, the classic backstab/sniper shot, and so on. Want to do this separately from the weapon proficiency slots...

Aesthetically... I think rayguns are rayguns. Probably not going to use any standard ballistics, but I will definitely have the Buck Rogers needler.

I have a thing, where I want to have a lot of common equipment, especially including standard swords and most armor types, made from ceramic and polymer composites. I just think they're nifty. And mageblades are mageblades. But if lightsabers exist, and I'm not using any fanwank about how only Jedi (or Sith) can use them... why would any wealthy, swashbuckling pirate captain choose to carry an oversized cocktail sword instead of one?

Maybe I just don't want to use lightsabers at all?

 

[Simon Hogwood]

I have a thing, where I want to have a lot of common equipment, especially including standard swords and most armor types, made from ceramic and polymer composites. I just think they're nifty. And mageblades are mageblades. But if lightsabers exist, and I'm not using any fanwank about how only Jedi (or Sith) can use them... why would any wealthy, swashbuckling pirate captain choose to carry an oversized cocktail sword instead of one?

Make them power hogs that will only last a set amount of time/uses before needing to be recharged. Maybe mystics can recharge them on the fly, mystically, but everyone else either needs several, or needs something else to back them up.

 

[VisionStorm]

I reckon that I can live with the Sacred Six if I make some adjustments-- Dexterity never, ever, ever adds to damage; professional skills, perception, and initiative go to Intelligence; Wisdom gets more stuff to do in terms of mysticism and sheer grit.

Pretty much agree with all of this. The idea that Dex adds to damage is silly symmetrical design nonsense (melee attacks get a stat-based bonus so ranged attacks should get one too!) that doesn't take into account WHY Str ever gave melee attacks a damage bonus in the first place (melee attacks are muscle-powered and require you to get up close to even inflict damage; ranged attacks aren't/don't).

Also think that Wisdom should be the core mystical attribute. This is balanced out if Int gets all the professional/practical skills.

Looking at Weapons. As is my wont to do, I am attempting to put the finishing touches on something before I've even halfway figured out the foundations; this never works, but to my credit I am very, very stupid. I am not really satisfied with the traditional "weapons deal damage based on weapon type", but neither am I particularly satisfied with the basic implementation of "weapons deal damage based on wielder". I am going to have to figure out some compromise between the two, and... blaaah.

One thing I'm doing in a game I'm currently working on is basing weapon damage on broad weight categories: Light, Medium or Heavy. All weapons do their weight class damage as a base, modified by whatever special properties it might have (two-handed weapons do extra damage, firearms do as well, etc.). That way it's easy to remember how much damage every weapon does, and differences are based on properties that may give extra bonuses or situational advantages (certain damage types may do more or less damage against certain enemies, etc.).

It also uses the Star Wars Saga system for multi-attacking, where you make however many attacks all at the same attack penalty. Unless I missed something, it seemingly lets you do this starting at 1st level.

...
I also want to do a thing, where iterative attacks/multi-attack isn't necessarily the default mode and maybe different "fighter builds" have different options for crowd-control and single-target striking-- like cleaving strikes, strafing fire, the classic backstab/sniper shot, and so on. Want to do this separately from the weapon proficiency slots...

One thing I've been considering is having one attack per round be the standard, and making multiple attacks be a combat option that gets declared in advance. Each attack (including the first) adds a cumulative -2 to all attacks that round. So three attacks would be a -6 penalty to all attacks. If this is too low might go with -4 per attack beyond first instead (two -4, three -8, four -12, etc).

I have a thing, where I want to have a lot of common equipment, especially including standard swords and most armor types, made from ceramic and polymer composites. I just think they're nifty. And mageblades are mageblades. But if lightsabers exist, and I'm not using any fanwank about how only Jedi (or Sith) can use them... why would any wealthy, swashbuckling pirate captain choose to carry an oversized cocktail sword instead of one?

Maybe I just don't want to use lightsabers at all?

Yeah, only logical reason not to use a lightsaber is if you don't feel confident enough to get up close, at which point all melee weapons are out of the question anyways. Unless they're literally powered by your own magic it makes no sense non-Jedi/magic individuals not being able to use them.

 

[VisionStorm]

Make them power hogs that will only last a set amount of time/uses before needing to be recharged. Maybe mystics can recharge them on the fly, mystically, but everyone else either needs several, or needs something else to back them up.

Yeah, I always wondered about a lightsaber's power usage. It usually gets handwaved away, but having a continuous laser sticking out of a handle sounds like it would drain a lot of energy. More stuff to track, though, but still...

 

[WillPhillips]

I've decided I have to kill my darlings, here: comparing all of the design goals I'd have to give up to keep my two-ability system, it just doesn't make sense.

A hard call to make, but an important one. Good on you for recognizing that.

 

[dj2145]

Great thread! I've really gained a lot of insight into my approach reading on your progress. My system tends to deviate from OSR where AC and hit points are concerned but otherwise some really great ideas.

I like the multiple/iterative attacks turning into combat options piece. Might get a little crunchy but imagine a fighter sacrificing an attack to gain an AoO. Or maybe stretch his threat range by 5'. Makes it more of a chess match tactically which is what I am driving for. I know not all players enjoy that style, however, so enter at your own risk.

 

[Silverlion]

Yeah, I always wondered about a lightsaber's power usage. It usually gets handwaved away, but having a continuous laser sticking out of a handle sounds like it would drain a lot of energy. More stuff to track, though, but still...

Meh. Look it's a laser 'sword', anything beyond that is overthinking it's a sword you can 'turn on' instead of unsheathe (and people seem to wait for that.) Setting wise just let it be a sword--in turns of use. Heck, I don't like tracking ammo for anything but games where resources are meant to be scarce. I prefer dramatic moments of running out over mechanical ones.

 

[VisionStorm]

Meh. Look it's a laser 'sword', anything beyond that is overthinking it's a sword you can 'turn on' instead of unsheathe (and people seem to wait for that.) Setting wise just let it be a sword--in turns of use. Heck, I don't like tracking ammo for anything but games where resources are meant to be scarce. I prefer dramatic moments of running out over mechanical ones.

It depends on the type of game you want to play or are designing, so it's a stylistic thing to a certain extent. I sometimes get tired of tracking ammo as well, but at the same time have a hard time letting go of things that don't make "realistic" sense. And infinite ammo seems kinda iffy, plus it can give an undue advantage to characters using firearms in games where firearms are actually deadly. If guns barely do the same damage as a sword, though, tracking ammo starts to become a tedious complication.

Similarly, tracking laser sword energy seems kinda like pointless bookkeeping and overthinking it from a certain perspective, specially if that "laser" sword is mechanically just a sword and does the same or marginally better damage than a normal sword. But it's still kinda iffy, and if that sword does significantly more damage than a normal sword and can cut through metal doors, like in the movies, it starts bringing questions of balance and "realism".

TL; DR: "It depends".

 

[Silverlion]

Well for me--I don't ever have 'infinite' supplies, a failed roll can in many games I run simply mean "out of ammo" aka a dramatic failure. Read as you pull the trigger and the gun fails to fire! You've run out of shots!

 

[Simon Hogwood]

Well for me--I don't ever have 'infinite' supplies, a failed roll can in many games I run simply mean "out of ammo" aka a dramatic failure. Read as you pull the trigger and the gun fails to fire! You've run out of shots!

That's an interesting approach.

 

[Dammit Victor]

So, I wouldn't normally worry about a 35-year-old cartoon that I hadn't even heard of... but it does turn out, unfortunately, that Adventures of the Galaxy Rangers is owned by Hasbro. So... I'm down one working title, twenty-seven dollars, and about five hours of my life.

This show's really good, though, and really close to how I imagined that PC teams of Galaxy Rangers were supposed to work, though.

 

[Silverlion]

So, I wouldn't normally worry about a 35-year-old cartoon that I hadn't even heard of... but it does turn out, unfortunately, that Adventures of the Galaxy Rangers is owned by Hasbro. So... I'm down one working title, twenty-seven dollars, and about five hours of my life.

This show's really good, though, and really close to how I imagined that PC teams of Galaxy Rangers were supposed to work, though.

I actually thought I'd mentioned it! But nope not in this thread. Must have been when my post ate itself and I got distracted. Seriously.

 

[VisionStorm]

So, I wouldn't normally worry about a 35-year-old cartoon that I hadn't even heard of... but it does turn out, unfortunately, that Adventures of the Galaxy Rangers is owned by Hasbro. So... I'm down one working title, twenty-seven dollars, and about five hours of my life.

This show's really good, though, and really close to how I imagined that PC teams of Galaxy Rangers were supposed to work, though.

Damn! Didn't you think to make a Google search first? That's always the first thing I do whenever coming up with names for stuff.

How did you lose twenty seven bucks over this? Domain names?

 

[Simon Hogwood]

That's rough, man.

How did you lose twenty seven bucks over this? Domain names?

Sounds like a trademark search fee to me.

 

[Dammit Victor]

No, no, none of that. It's just what the 16 episode "greatest hits" collection cost on Amazon.