Scion 2nd Edition: any thoughts?

[Nexus]

Has anyone tried or taken a look at it yet? From what I understand it uses a new iteration of the Storyteller rules: Storypath or something? Any comments?

I know, I'm looking into going back to an abusive relationship by even thinking about this looking into games from this crowd. But-but they promised it would be different this time... that they wouldn't get so mad and hurt me anymore... they promised... They've changed, they said so!

 

[Trippy]

I've got the PDFs, read through them, and on the strength of that I am most likely going to buy the hardcopy.

I'm not entirely in agreement with having the core rules (Origin) seperated from the setting book (Hero), but between them there is a lot of material. The rules work - which is not something you would say about every Storyteller (or Storypath as it's now called) game. It's a simple, dynamic and balanced dice pool system, which has a few sprinkles of ideas from some other modern systems, but handles high power levels well.

The game itself really shines in the Hero book though, with the focus on the various mythical Pantheons from all sorts of cultures. 'The World" of the setting assumes that all cultural beliefs are true, even if they contradict each other (as per games like RuneQuest) and as such it makes for a well thought out urban fantasy with plenty of depth to it. You can build on the various pantheons with your own research and make it into something highly immersive I think. The PCs are obviously on a path towards 'god' status as per the release of more books, and I'd assume a bunch more supplements are planned for some of the other mythical creatures (the main antagonists are the various old world Titans) but I think you could get by on the material in the Hero book alone for many campaigns.

I had to look around to find if there is anything comparible to it for other systems or other games. There is a number of games that have a similar premise of playing gods in urban fantasy settings, and plenty of games centred on historical myths, but few make any effort to incorporate real world myths into a modern setting. As such, there is a niche for it.

In all, I find it a very compelling game that is a natural counterpoint to the World of Darkness games, with a much more upbeat setting and system to match.

 

[Chris Brady]

You can do a better job cribbing from Neil Gaiman's American Gods TV series and using your favourite system (I believe that's Hero System.)

 

[Trippy]

You can do a better job cribbing from Neil Gaiman's American Gods TV series and using your favourite system (I believe that's Hero System.)

I think the HERO system is totally unintuitive myself (indeed, going on Champions Complete, it's actually one of the worst systems available on the market these days) and while American Gods is sourced as an inspiration, the material within the Scion:Hero book draws from a much wider range of cultures. Moreover, Champions/Hero hasn't gone to the effort as far as I can see, of actually doing the research and putting together a sourcebook that provides the setting that Scion does.

 

[Raleel]

I have it, backed the Kickstarter, but haven’t spent a lot of time with it. While waiting for the Kickstarter to get done, I did crib up a Cortex Prime Scion, however.

 

[The Butcher]

Never played it, but I like the fluff well enough. If the system’s as bad as it’s reputed to be, I’d probably use Godbound, though I see it working with supers games as well.

 

[Trippy]

It is remarkable that such a primal idea for an urban fantasy game hasn't been tapped by any number of systems. I'd seen a few things similar - like a few Fate supplements or the Amber spinoff, Lords of Olympus. However, few have managed to put a variety of pantheons together, competing in a modern setting.

 

[Raleel]

If the system’s as bad as it’s reputed to be

For Scion 1e, it is genuinely the most broken system I’ve seen. It was clear that someone did not go through and figure out how dice work.

2e, on the other hand, does a much better job.

 

[Trippy]

Never played it, but I like the fluff well enough. If the system’s as bad as it’s reputed to be, I’d probably use Godbound, though I see it working with supers games as well.

Why do people think this system is bad? It's not at all. It may have been in the previous edition, but in the second edition it works fine. I'm pretty certain there is a quickplay version for anybody wanting to check it out.

 

[Raleel]

Why do people think this system is bad? It's not at all. It may have been in the previous edition, but in the second edition it works fine. I'm pretty certain there is a quickplay version for anybody wanting to check it out.

I think he was saying Scion 1e.

 

[Trippy]

I think he was saying Scion 1e.

Which, to be fair, I never really even glanced at. The second edition is a pleasant surprise though. I'd regard it as stronger - in both premise and system - that most of the WoD games, in fact.

 

[Raleel]

Which, to be fair, I never really even glanced at. The second edition is a pleasant surprise though. I'd regard it as stronger - in both premise and system - that most of the WoD games, in fact.

I believe that. My look over the rules several months ago, indicated something pretty well suited.

First edition had things like “points in epic stats gained you an ever escalating number of automatic successes and at some point the guy who was one rank below you could NEVER beat you in that stat” and allowing attack’s to increase damage and dex is the Uber stat and the like.

 

[Jetstream]

System’s pretty solid from what I’ve read of it. Presentation is a little confusing when stacked up against the Trinity books, but it’s perfectly serviceable.

 

[Belle Sorciere]

I backed it for the physical books (which are now sitting under my keyboard) and while I am disappointed that the books were printed without all of the errata, I do want to give this a try.

 

[Nexus]

I think the HERO system is totally unintuitive myself (indeed, going on Champions Complete, it's actually one of the worst systems available on the market these days)

Bastiche.

Christopher Brady was right. Hero System is my favorite system and has been for decades. I find i far more intuitive while being balanced and flexible that other systems even those sold on those merits. Its not perfect, nothing is but it works for me quite well, I respect you feel negstively towards it even if I don't get quite why but to each their own.

And actually, American Gods is one of the reasons I'm even given Scion a look. I have been consistently... less that impressed by Storyteller related products. But I've heard whispers that "Storypath" is supposed to notably the different than previous iterations of Storyteller (which were various flavor of Trainwreck, IMO). But from a sister thread and some comments in this one I'm not so sure about that, of the "research" they've done for the gm/players.

So, a bit of clarity to something.



Storypath is a system that belongs to Onyx Path Publishing. It is, officially, not a new version of the Storyteller/ing rules, because those belong to Paradox.



Of course, a lot of that is official/legal stuff. Storypath is very much a new take on the ST framework. Nobody is pretending otherwise, but it has to be different enough; not that the Onyx Path team seems to mind as a lot of the differences are stuff they seem to want to get away from with the older games.



--------------



As for Scion 2e?



It had a rough start (there was a major editing SNAFU), and there are definitely some clarity issues. Such are the pains of being the first game for a new system.



That said, beyond that it's very solid. The core Storypath system is a very good mix of more traditional RPG mechanics with some well thought out inclusions from what the indie and storygame crowds are up to. It's still a d10 dice-pool system, you still put points down in normally 0 or 1 to 5 ratings, and combine two for your pools. Storypath defaults to being very flexible about Skill + Attribute combinations (at least outside of things like combat). It's written with the expectations that players go for high ratings in a few places, and use those as much as possible, rather than worrying about trying to force people to spread out. This is countered by giving plenty of tools to make going about things in unconventional ways more interesting so there's value it having decent pools in other places too.



Something that's probably the most difficult for some people is that Storypath expects a lot of "fill in the blanks." It's not freeform exactly, but a few core mechanics are frameworks you need to fill in.



Paths are the first, but easiest to get into in this regard. An important part of character creation is picking three Paths. In Scion these are Origin, Role, and Pantheon (or Society for characters not part of a Pantheon at all or yet). The game has lots of examples, but you're supposed to flush them out into something more specific for your character. The Potemkin World Origin Path is for characters that were raised in a fashion that superficially look like normal ones, but included instructions on the secrets of the World, and classes that would prepare them to serve their Pantheons. But you don't write down "Potemkin World," you write down something more specific. Were you the "Top of the Class in Warrior High," where you went to a multi-Pantheon school that focused on direct combat with the Titans? Maybe you were "Loner in Theoi Classes," because you were adopted by Athena despite having parents that weren't part of the Theoi Pantheon. How you decide to specify your Path is important to what resources you can call on from them.



This is also important in combat. When you take damage, you don't just tick off a health box. Each time you take damage you take an Injury Condition which again, needs to have blanks filled in. You don't take a -1 Bashing Condition. You get a Black Eye. How the injury gets described then matters to what impact it has; both negative and positive.



When you get into Scion specific stuff?



The setting was given far more thought than 1e, and the Pantheons themselves are far better written. Things were adjusted a lot in the lore and the mechanics to be flexible to the different ways myths express themselves instead of trying to force everything into one mold.



We haven't see the later stage books yet, but the early levels take a really fun path to the kind of powers these beings wield. Powers aren't on 1-5 lists or things like that. Improvement is more horizontal, letting you have more of your powers activated at once. A Legend 1 Scion can have some very cool powers, but can't use them all at once, or many times in a row. As their Legend grows, they get to have more things running, or use some more times in a row.



So, yeah, there's a bit of a hurdle to get past, but once you do it's a very fun game.

Sounds a little too far into "You make something up." (as it suits the story, situation, passing fancy, etc) for my tastes. If I'm going to just "roll dice and make stuff up." as rules I'd probably do better and enjoy it more with a system I find initiative and simple. And I can come up with e setting. ("Everything true, even if it contradicts." just sound Jenna Moran level headache inducing to me).

So, unless I heard something very different, its looking like a pass for me. I guess the restraining order holds.

 

[Trippy]

Bastiche.

It just is! The game appears locked in a time capsule these days, although the use of cards to help generate characters is a step in the right direction.

 

[Nexus]

It just is! The game appears locked in a time capsule these days, although the use of cards to help generate characters is a step in the right direction.

The right direction...? I must have missed the memo where you were declared Minister of RPGs.

Damn, its a good thing I finally met the one gamer that has Objective Facts not just opinions. I finally have someone to come to find out if my preferences are wrong. I'm sure I and the many others that play Hero System (and others systems you've deemed wrong) will be very grateful to find out they've been wasting their time for decades and can follow you to the one true way.

 

[Nexus]

You can do a better job cribbing from Neil Gaiman's American Gods TV series and using your favourite system (I believe that's Hero System.)

That's been my inclination since I first heard of the concept given how different my interpretations of concepts tend to be from the WW/OP/etc crowd. After getting into American Gods, the inclination to give Scion another looks (I did not care for the 1st edition). Sounds like my first instincts were likely correct though.

Edit: Like Exalted most superhero could a good job with the premise.

 

[FeralToaster]

Has anyone tried the new edition of Part Time Gods by Eloy Lasanta? I haven't gotten around to yet but somebody in my game group said they had fun playing it.

 

[Nexus]

Has anyone tried the new edition of Part Time Gods by Eloy Lasanta? I haven't gotten around to yet but somebody in my game group said they had fun playing it.

I'm sorry I hadn't heard of it. But I'd be interested in hearing about it.

 

[Chris Brady]

That's been my inclination since I first heard of the concept given how different my interpretations of concepts tend to be from the WW/OP/etc crowd. After getting into American Gods, the inclination to give Scion another looks (I did not care for the 1st edition). Sounds like my first instincts were likely correct though.

I like the concept of demigods running around like secret superheroes, but like you, my experiences with anything system based from White Wolf is spotty and lackluster at best.

 

[Nexus]

Some more comments from the other thread with mechanical details that don't sound like my cuppa but may interest others.

I'm also going to mention the two things that pretty much brought us to a screeching halt on it; both are addressable (but addressing one recreates a problem from the old Scion in milder form);

1. One of the mechanics interwoven with a lot of the game is use of "Momentum", a sort of pace-of-progress/metacurrency that is used to get things done and is yielded as the consequence of various failures. As written, this is a group pool, which I'm sure works fine for some groups but for others (and ours is among them) its a social stresser looking for a place to happen.

2. Less easily addressed is that Scion is pretty all-in on what's sometimes referred to as "approaches", which means when trying to get something done, you can, essentially, chose any attribute in the general category applicable to the task and add it to the appropriate skill. This is done to do two things: to try and reflect some elements of the fiction of the game, and to avoid certain problems where characters with a given focus being hopeless if needing to operate outside of those (the classic having been Eric from the first edition who had Epic Strength but not Epic Dexterity, yet carried a gun as part of his signature operating procedure, so he could never hit anything with it).

I understand what they're trying to do there, but I find it just a bit of a bridge too far in destroying the meaning of the attributes involved; yet if you go back to a more traditional approach, you have some of the same old problem.

The 2nd in particular feels pretty far off my previous, similar in a way to Marvel Heroic which really didn't click for me. I guess I should stay in my time capsule.

More related commentary:

The really big difference which leapt out at me was combat. As has been touched on above, it's less about dealing out X hit points' worth of damage than it is inflicting status effects on people, some of which happen to be damage.

So, for example, if I get 4 successes on my attack roll against the defender's defence of 2, I have two successes to spend on effects. It's free to inflict damage, but you can usually only do that once per turn, so I could, say, inflict damage and spend the two successes to disarm my opponent. Or inflict damage (free) and knock him back two metres (costs 1 success per metre). Or inflict damage (free), blind him (costs one success) and trip him up (costs one success). All of the different options have different game effects.

Now, I haven't actually played it yet, but I can see half my potential players taking to this like a duck to water and the other half asking me why they can't just damage their opponent.

Edit: I'm sorry I have no idea why the picture was there.

 

[FeralToaster]

I'm sorry I hadn't heard of it. But I'd be interested in hearing about it.

Fortunately I have a pdf tucked away, I'll give it a skim through on the train this evening and get back to you. Please if anyone has played the game either edition I'd loved to hear their impressions. My friend said that it has a retro white wolf feel in how the poltics of the part-gods is setup but the developer really likes tinker with stuff so there their were a lot of neat ideas tucked into the system.

 

[Ghost Whistler]

The feedback on Drivethru suggests there are lots of errors. Is this true?

Are both books necessary?

 

[Trippy]

The right direction...? I must have missed the memo where you were declared Minister of RPGs.

Damn, its a good thing I finally met the one gamers that has Objective Facts not just opinions. I finally have someone to come to find out if my preferences are wrong. I'm sure I and the many others that play Hero System (and others systems you've deemed wrong) will be very grateful to find out they've been wasting their time for decades and can follow you to the one true way.

At this point, one has to explain the nature of personal opinion being implicit in any post anybody makes on this forum - as if any adult needs this to be explained, but there we go….

The current Champions/Hero system is bad for these reasons:

- The layout and art direction of the Champions Complete is practically non-existant. Just plain B&W text, no borders, and occasional line drawn art. The layout from Champions books made 30 years ago looks better. For a game that emulates comics, in a crowded field of competition, it is notably weak.
- The editing is so rushed, many paragraphs and sentences are incoherent. Terms are often defined badly, or not at all; because the layout is bad, some sections of writing are seemingly intersected with others, so it can be hard to follow text. It's badly written, and no first time buyer of the Champions game can legitimately run the game from it. The large HERO books, which were dropped for being too large and offputting to casual gamers, were actually better presented and written - and the Champions Complete book was an attempt to condense them down into a slimmer volume. It hasn't worked.
- The system development in 6th edition chose to uncouple the calulated attributes from the core characteristic scores. While this gives more flexibility to veteran players, again it leaves new players hanging. The Character generation process has no real guidance, beyond a few tips and a brain freezing catalogue of stuff. Even the templates are just loose suggestions, rather than something that new players can build ideas from in any accessible way. The character generation cards ARE a step in the right direction because they give new and old players alike a quick method for building characters in a visual and intuitive way.
- The system remains convoluted - too many skills, combat manoeuvres, talents, perks, powers and stipulations. There hasn't been any thought to pruning these down, and a lot of the skills in particular are overly specific and unnecessary.
- The core mechanics are stuck in their ways, and haven't developed on. The roll under basis actually makes the system as a whole less intuitive, where the core combat roll is stated as "Attacker’s OCV + 11 - 3d6 = the DCV the attacker can hit". The mechanic is upside down, where it would be easier to say: "Attackers OCV + 3D6 vs Defenders DCV +10", but even calculating combat scores goes through eight steps. The whole thing needs an overhaul in the same way D&D got when they flipped THACO over. The game involves too many unnecessary calculations to work out things that are much more intuitively done in other games.
- The core game doesn't have much support these days. While a game like Scion, or any other other the multitude of interesting potential settings from all stripes of comic books could theoretically be done with the game, there are hardly any supplements for the current game to give inspiration or show you how.

The game itself should be held up as one of THE archetypal RPGs, in the same way that D&D, Traveller and Call of Cthulhu are for their respective genres. Yet the game is stuck in a bubble, where it has ceded market leading status in the Superhero genre to Mutants & Masterminds. The Champions market IS diminishing, and this is sad. It's only the work of Darren Watts, who was involved in the Character Creation cards, the live action book and the excellently written Golden Age Champions that is keeping the game alive in my view. But the core book remains a problem, which is not helped when fans of the game who have been playing it for 30 years and already know the system like the back of their hands, promote it as being a clear, well presented and supposedly flawless set of rules. It's anything but - it is literally the worst supers book on the market for new players to get.

 

[Nexus]

At this point, one has to explain the nature of personal opinion being implicit in any post anybody makes on this forum - as if any adult needs this to be explained, but there we go….

I asked about opinions on Scion 2nd Edition. Discussing Hero System wasn't the point. At the only point Hero System came up was Christopher Brady mention it as my possible favorite when he said he thought I could do better cribbing from American Gods and using my favorite system. Most adults don't see that an invitation to take shots at the Hero rules for being "Worst game evar!!!111" Or to double down after an attempt was made to joke about it and move on then post a long screed about how I'm "wrong" in my preferences As I assume other people don't like Hero System on this board yet didn't do it...

But here we are....

So I think use of the Ignore function would work best for us as it will spare us from our mutual "immaturity".

Best wishes.

 

[Trippy]

I asked about opinions on Scion. At the only point Hero System came up was Christopher Brady mention it as my possible favorite when he said he thought I could do better cribbing from American Gods and using my favorite system. Most adults don't see that an invitation to take shots at the Hero rules for being "Worst game evar!!!111" Or to double down after an attempt was made to joke about it and move on then post a long screed about how I'm "wrong" in my preferences

But here we are....

So I think use of the Ignore function would work best as it will spare us from our mutual "immaturity".

Best wishes.

Yes, and then somebody made a comment about Champions which I responded to. You then responded to me in a personalised way, and now we are here. Don't try and claim a moral high ground on the situation - you made it. Don't try to claim I hadn't given any thoughts on Scion either - I had.

And I didn't state "Worst game evar!!!111', if you cared enough to read what was said. I've made criticism of the game - mooted as an alternative to Scion. Whether people can handle the criticism is a measure of their maturity.

 

[Chris Brady]

I was just pointing out/asking that Nexus likes Hero System. I apologize if it set people off.

Anyway, just today, at my local game shop, I saw two Scion books, Origins and Heroes, is this Second Edition? And did it just come out?

 

[Trippy]

I was just pointing out/asking that Nexus likes Hero System. I apologize if it set people off.

All good.

Anyway, just today, at my local game shop, I saw two Scion books, Origins and Heroes, is this Second Edition? And did it just come out?

Yep. They've just been released to a retail market, which is unusual for Onyx Path releases as they usually just rely on Kickstarter/PDF/POD.

 

[Chris Brady]

Interesting. I didn't have time to flip the books.

 

[Trippy]

Interesting. I didn't have time to flip the books.

There is a jump-start version of the rules called 'A Light Extinguished' although this may just be available to backers currently.

 

[Nexus]

Bit more about the mechanics (how the differ from Storpath's "parentage".

I might repeat some things:



1) Reduced Skill list (16 is the shortest of any so far), and Skills as the greater focus than Attributes. This is kinda subtle on reading, but a big impact on how to approach deciding dice-pools.



2) Removal of Willpower, one of the few constant traits across the ST family games.



3) The addition of a more explicit metacurrency in Momentum.



4) Stunts and Complications to help figure out what to do with a roll's results. Earlier games gave vague charts about how many successes (past the difficulty in the ones where difficulty is a number of successes needed rather than TN for the roll) mean what in terms of how well you did with your action. Storypath has you spend successes after those needed to succeed on either getting Stunts (positive effects to enhance you roll, or help your friends, etc.), or eliminating Complications (negative aspects of what you're doing that don't directly influence success/failure). Sneaking past a guard on ground with lots of clutter has a Difficulty of, say, 3. After having 3 successes to do so, you could spend successes to aid less stealthy characters, and cover your tracks as well as just sneak past the guard there now.



5) Paths incorporate a lot of thing formerly put in Backgrounds/Merits. Though this changes a bit game to game (the Trinity games have Paths flat out giving you more Edges on top of the looser things Scion does). You have a mix of automatic things they provide (such as equipment your character would obviously have or have access to), things you can use sometimes but too often could be detrimental (calling on friends/allies/contacts), and occasional boosts (players of Scions can call on Twists of Fate to boost rolls relative to their characters' Paths).



6) Tier and Scale to help deal with characters of differing power levels without blowing up the system with huge numbers. Every character is assigned a Tier from 1 to 4. Tier sets the TN for your rolls (so high Tier characters get more successes out of the same number of dice), and in many cases acts as plot armor (ex: PCs can't be killed by characters of a lower Tier). Tier is a constant passive benefit of just being one a different level then someone else. Scale is a situational/relative mechanic. Character's do not have "Scale ratings," or anything like that. Instead you use the guidelines to determine if there's a Scale difference at all, and if so what the total difference is, for that specific situation. If two characters are racing, one with super-speed and one with a magical motorcycle, the SG might say the super-speed is Scale 3, and the motorcycle Scale 2, so the mechanical benefits are the super-speed getting the Scale 1 bonuses and the motorcycle getting Scale 0.



7) Complex actions (normally called Extended actions in previous games) are more flexible in application. You're not inherently rolling the same thing each time (though you can depending what you're doing), and makes sure that the rolls and permutations make sense to the narrative and allow more flavor and interest than just rerolling until you get enough successes. So a character lost in the woods might have to make a Survival check to get their bearings, an Athletics check to climb a major obstacle, A Science check to purify some water, etc. until they navigate to safety.



8) Combat has a bunch of touches. One shot kills are only generally possible on trivial targets as doing more than 1 or 2 damage against a target in a turn takes having a Scale advantage over them that applies, shifting the focus to being more creative with combat than maximum damage all the time. The noted way Injuries work over just ticking off damage tracks. Combat has more explicit Attribute assignments than the base system, and ensures a wide array of Attributes can be relevant in combat instead of Dexterity being king. Another structural change is that players don't have to declare special effects like trips, disarms, etc. before they roll. You attack, roll, see how many successes you get, and then get to pick what to do with the attack. There's no sitting around wondering "do I take a -2 to attack the leg, or just save it and hope for more damage?" and that sort of number crunching to worry about. Weapons and Armor are purely Tag based, with no stat blocks or weapons with inherently better stats than others (at least mundane weapons, magical weapons are better than mundane ones obviously).



-----------------



On the momentum thing:



1) Momentum is designed to be very easy to come by, and the base mechanics reward the whole group for Momentum getting used. You're supposed to be getting a lot of it, and spending a lot of it rather than it being a precious resource players will fight over. There's actually a cap on Momentum so if you're not spending it, it's wasted.



2) If you don't find the base Momentum rules fun or at least fun for your current group, there are optional rules such as individual momentum in the later parts of the book.

 

[FeralToaster]

I'm sorry I hadn't heard of it. But I'd be interested in hearing about it.

okay back home, train ride was a beast with the heat and the thunderstorm looming. Got about 60 pages in to Part-Time Gods 2ed, book held my attention I'll give it that. Oh let this get this outta the way first-

The feedback on Drivethru suggests there are lots of errors. Is this true?

Are both books necessary?

I'm sorta sure this wasn't meant addressed to me but it kinda does apply so I'll treat it like was. I notice one or two typos, nothing to be concerned about really minor stuff, new game terms are brought out without being defined first but if you ever read an old white wolf book you should be able to roll with it. while the 1st ed did have more books in the line and the kickstarter unlocked a bunch of cool stuff currently only the corebook is available, if you want angels and dragons stuff that was unlocked you'll have to wing it (you see what I did there) until the companions are out.

Okay first impression is this is pulpier urban fantasy/modern mythology there is an in game mythological story that drive things forward rather then having doing an overview of a couple of mythologies and leaving it to the storyteller to build a campaign around it. Once again going back to old white wolf trappings cool if you like it irksome if you don't. basically all mythologies descend from one cavewoman and they tricked her out of power centuries ago. Now everything is a mix of The Highlander series and the X-Files with the part-time gods fighting each other for more power (in a nice easter egg they even call the source of their power "the source" like in highlander) while a bunch of weird monster types are creeping in because the cavewoman was the only god really good about keeping them out.
I noticed there is a lot of potential with ingame political intrigue with players picking a theology and a pantheon. theologies are how the character choices to interact with the world and they are a varied bunch so you got the wizard option next to the building a pocket dimension option which I like. Panthenions are sorta the structure the player comes from combined with the business relations they have (it's kinda weird and I have to read more to understand it).
After I got to the beginning of character creation. it sorta reminds me of d20 modern with how it has the player pick out an occupation and then giving out boons and curses based on that also you start getting attachments based on your occupation and thta reminds me of 3rd ed Exalted. and that's where I left off, on the whole I understand now why my friend was so interested in the book its hard to go wrong with a Highlander-X Files mashed up like this.

 

[Trippy]

if you want angels and dragons stuff that was unlocked you'll have to wing it (you see what I did there) until the companions are out.

I'll have to go and check the Kickstarter campaign again - honestly, I just backed it for the PDFs and didn't think I'd want any more, but I've been impressed with what I've had delivered (moreso than the the Trinity stuff, TBH, which is a bit old hat in that there are a lot of similar products/settings these days). However, one of the things I would like to see is integrating monotheistic 'pantheons' as such, by detailing the angelic heirarchy of angels rather than Gods, per se. There is a sidebar essay on Monotheism (and Atheism) in the Hero book, but I could see it being included.

I did note the Dragons sourcebook is upcoming, which is interesting too, and I think there would also be a place for some modern 'pantheons' - new gods, akin to those in American Gods - where we can creatively establish our own pantheons too.

 

[FeralToaster]

Oh you backed Trinity too ay. yeah kinda felt that they played it a bit too safe on that. They own the Trinity license outright they could have flexed their creativity and frankly I didn't see it in the trinity book. The new mechanics are nice the new system makes everything smoother and having the meta plot all in one place are all good things... but is Trinity on the same level as say Eclipse Phase or 40k's Dark Hersey? Personally I was really hoping to have the Aberrants in the Trinity era fleshed out or have the "Days of future past"/Time War alternate setting made official with players actively fighting for control in each era but I digress.

But back on subject yeah Eloy Lasanta is really worth a look if you like early Wod stuff. He is creative, prolific, and hard working if he sets a stretch goal he will more then likely fulfill it in a reasonably time frame. He just delivered a call of cthulhu mash up with Hogwarts that has a buzz going on in my social circles. Oh if your interested in a Monotheistic stucture laid out in a form playable for pcs you could look at In Nomine from Steve Jackson. Bunch cool stuff worth mining in their.

 

[Jetstream]

All good.

Yep. They've just been released to a retail market, which is unusual for Onyx Path releases as they usually just rely on Kickstarter/PDF/POD.

They've been working to get books back in stores for several years now. Pugmire, Scion, Trinity, all of 'em.

They're still doing PoD, and the Kickstarters are funding the print runs.

 

[Trippy]

They've been working to get books back in stores for several years now. Pugmire, Scion, Trinity, all of 'em.

They're still doing PoD, and the Kickstarters are funding the print runs.

Well, I don't think they made any approach over the WoD/CoD titles to get them into retail (which was why V5 was a big return). I asked Richard Thomas directly about it on the Onyx Path site, and he basically said it wasn't their business model. That said, WoD/CoD/Exalted isn't their IP (they are owned by WW), but Trinity and Scion were all bought out totally and now belong to them, while Pugmire was original to them.

 

[Trippy]

Oh you backed Trinity too ay. yeah kinda felt that they played it a bit too safe on that. They own the Trinity license outright they could have flexed their creativity and frankly I didn't see it in the trinity book. The new mechanics are nice the new system makes everything smoother and having the meta plot all in one place are all good things... but is Trinity on the same level as say Eclipse Phase or 40k's Dark Hersey? Personally I was really hoping to have the Aberrants in the Trinity era fleshed out or have the "Days of future past"/Time War alternate setting made official with players actively fighting for control in each era but I digress.

But back on subject yeah Eloy Lasanta is really worth a look if you like early Wod stuff. He is creative, prolific, and hard working if he sets a stretch goal he will more then likely fulfill it in a reasonably time frame. He just delivered a call of cthulhu mash up with Hogwarts that has a buzz going on in my social circles. Oh if your interested in a Monotheistic stucture laid out in a form playable for pcs you could look at In Nomine from Steve Jackson. Bunch cool stuff worth mining in their.

I've got In Nomine, and that is exactly what I'm thinking of - but it would be cool to have them all fully integrated under the same system.

But yes, when you have things like Eclipse Phase or 2300AD, or even some of the scifi supplements for Fate or Savage Worlds, Trinity isn't quite so distinctive anymore, although the system is a lot better than it used to be. Aberrant was actually a cool satirical supers setting - but better than other supers games? Not so sure. Adventure! was largely supplanted by Fate (Spirit of the Century) and Savage Worlds! too, essentially. There was some talk of doing other historical/future settings on the same continuum, but again, there is just so much competition for them now. Scion, however, has built up it's own little niche - largely on the strength of actually researching real world pantheons and making a viable premise out of them all interacting.

 

[Nexus]

I like the concept of demigods running around like secret superheroes, but like you, my experiences with anything system based from White Wolf is spotty and lackluster at best.

I think most supers systems could handle the premise. Its basically "supers" but with limited origin of power, at least for PCs.

 

[Nexus]

okay back home, train ride was a beast with the heat and the thunderstorm looming. Got about 60 pages in to Part-Time Gods 2ed, book held my attention I'll give it that. Oh let this get this outta the way first-

I'm sorta sure this wasn't meant addressed to me but it kinda does apply so I'll treat it like was. I notice one or two typos, nothing to be concerned about really minor stuff, new game terms are brought out without being defined first but if you ever read an old white wolf book you should be able to roll with it. while the 1st ed did have more books in the line and the kickstarter unlocked a bunch of cool stuff currently only the corebook is available, if you want angels and dragons stuff that was unlocked you'll have to wing it (you see what I did there) until the companions are out.

Okay first impression is this is pulpier urban fantasy/modern mythology there is an in game mythological story that drive things forward rather then having doing an overview of a couple of mythologies and leaving it to the storyteller to build a campaign around it. Once again going back to old white wolf trappings cool if you like it irksome if you don't. basically all mythologies descend from one cavewoman and they tricked her out of power centuries ago. Now everything is a mix of The Highlander series and the X-Files with the part-time gods fighting each other for more power (in a nice Easter egg they even call the source of their power "the source" like in highlander) while a bunch of weird monster types are creeping in because the cavewoman was the only god really good about keeping them out.
I noticed there is a lot of potential with in-game political intrigue with players picking a theology and a pantheon. theologies are how the character choices to interact with the world and they are a varied bunch so you got the wizard option next to the building a pocket dimension option which I like. Pantheons are sorta the structure the player comes from combined with the business relations they have (it's kinda weird and I have to read more to understand it).
After I got to the beginning of character creation. it sorta reminds me of d20 modern with how it has the player pick out an occupation and then giving out boons and curses based on that also you start getting attachments based on your occupation and thta reminds me of 3rd ed Exalted. and that's where I left off, on the whole I understand now why my friend was so interested in the book its hard to go wrong with a Highlander-X Files mashed up like this.

Does 'Cavewoman' being adept keeping out monsters explicitly tie into how caves were some of humanity's first shelters from the beasts the hunted us in the night as explicit symbolism?