Scion 2nd Edition: any thoughts?

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There’s a PbtA RPG called Demigods that could do Scion that is just being KSed. The moves and playbooks are released and it looks good if you like the PbtA approach.

 
There’s a PbtA RPG called Demigods that could do Scion that is just being KSed. The moves and playbooks are released and it looks good if you like the PbtA approach.

I'm honestly not sure what that approach is. :-/
 
Nexus' reaction to "all religions are correct simultaneously" reminded me of the Freefall webcomic that I'm reading now. One of the robots there believes the same thing, and explains it with technobable:smile:.

I'm one of those that read Scion 1e and because of this probably won't give 2e a fair chance, but this might just change if the quickstart is decent, when it becomes available to non-backers:wink:.
 
Does 'Cavewoman' being adept keeping out monsters explicitly tie into how caves were some of humanity's first shelters from the beasts the hunted us in the night as explicit symbolism?
Yep, I''m quoting from the book now

"No two gods tell the same story about how their kind came into being. A few things tend to carry through, from story to story and culture to culture, however: there is always a woman, a cave, and the light of creation."

I'm guessing somebody thought up an awesome campaign during there college anthropology class and so this game came to be. I'm not even saying that is a bad thing either if somebody wants to make the Venus of Wilendorf the center of their cosmology for their game and its a cool game I'm not going to complain, I've played weirder premises easy. Oh and the game's name for Cavewoman is First Mother and she seems to play the same as role Caine does in Vampire The Masquerade. Distant parental figure that is mostly likely hostile but has the remote possibility to be helpful after a fashion.
 
I'm honestly not sure what that approach is. :-/

The approach as seen in most other PbtA RPGs.

As said the move and playbooks are available to view for free and cover nearly all of the system elements. You may need to look at a PbtA RPG or grab the free Dungeon World Guide to place it all, but it should give you a good look at what will be in there.

 
Yep, I''m quoting from the book now

"No two gods tell the same story about how their kind came into being. A few things tend to carry through, from story to story and culture to culture, however: there is always a woman, a cave, and the light of creation."

I'm guessing somebody thought up an awesome campaign during there college anthropology class and so this game came to be. I'm not even saying that is a bad thing either if somebody wants to make the Venus of Wilendorf the center of their cosmology for their game and its a cool game I'm not going to complain, I've played weirder premises easy. Oh and the game's name for Cavewoman is First Mother and she seems to play the same as role Caine does in Vampire The Masquerade. Distant parental figure that is mostly likely hostile but has the remote possibility to be helpful after a fashion.

Thanks, that does seem pretty interesting
 
Nexus' reaction to "all religions are correct simultaneously" reminded me of the Freefall webcomic that I'm reading now. One of the robots there believes the same thing, and explains it with technobable:smile:.

well, according to Jung, the human mind's ability to conceive of and accept a paradox is the fundamental essence of religious belief...
 
Nexus' reaction to "all religions are correct simultaneously" reminded me of the Freefall webcomic that I'm reading now. One of the robots there believes the same thing, and explains it with technobable:smile:.

I'm one of those that read Scion 1e and because of this probably won't give 2e a fair chance, but this might just change if the quickstart is decent, when it becomes available to non-backers:wink:.

It does sound a way of handling material that's driven me nuts with this crowd before "Oh, its all true. You figure it out!". Its right up there with the"from some a certain point of view" excuse that's been given for other books (written with little hint they are in-character) but at least that's easier for me to wrap my head around... 'we're unreliable narrators."

I'm looking for a role playing game, not philosophy or comparative Theology and Human Psychology course. If "Oh, its all true" is an example of the thought and research that was "done for me" in Scion, I'll pass. I have a better system for me and I can homebrew a setting I'd enjoy more.
 
It does sound a way of handling material that's driven me nuts with this crowd before "Oh, its all true. You figure it out!". Its right up there with the"from some a certain point of view" excuse that's been given for other books (written with little hint they are in-character) but at least that's easier for me to wrap my head around... 'we're unreliable narrators."

I'm looking for a role playing game, not philosophy or comparative Theology and Human Psychology course. If "Oh, its all true" is an example of the thought and research that was "done for me" in Scion, I'll pass. I have a better system for me and I can homebrew a setting I'd enjoy more.
*Gets pencil and character sheet ready*
 
It does sound a way of handling material that's driven me nuts with this crowd before "Oh, its all true. You figure it out!". Its right up there with the"from some a certain point of view" excuse that's been given for other books (written with little hint they are in-character) but at least that's easier for me to wrap my head around... 'we're unreliable narrators."
If it makes it any easier accept even the real world fundamentally (microscopic scale) has aspects of contradictory things being simultaneously true and different perspectives not lining up together (with this being nothing to do with the perspectives being unreliable). A world consisting of "facts" which are the same from all reliable perspectives only emerges on the large scales. So if the real world is like this, it might be easier to accept in a fantasy world.
 
okay back home, train ride was a beast with the heat and the thunderstorm looming. Got about 60 pages in to Part-Time Gods 2ed, book held my attention I'll give it that. Oh let this get this outta the way first-

I'm sorta sure this wasn't meant addressed to me but it kinda does apply so I'll treat it like was. I notice one or two typos, nothing to be concerned about really minor stuff, new game terms are brought out without being defined first but if you ever read an old white wolf book you should be able to roll with it. while the 1st ed did have more books in the line and the kickstarter unlocked a bunch of cool stuff currently only the corebook is available, if you want angels and dragons stuff that was unlocked you'll have to wing it:angel: (you see what I did there:clown:) until the companions are out.

Okay first impression is this is pulpier urban fantasy/modern mythology there is an in game mythological story that drive things forward rather then having doing an overview of a couple of mythologies and leaving it to the storyteller to build a campaign around it. Once again going back to old white wolf trappings cool if you like it irksome if you don't. basically all mythologies descend from one cavewoman and they tricked her out of power centuries ago. Now everything is a mix of The Highlander series and the X-Files with the part-time gods fighting each other for more power (in a nice easter egg they even call the source of their power "the source" like in highlander) while a bunch of weird monster types are creeping in because the cavewoman was the only god really good about keeping them out.
I noticed there is a lot of potential with ingame political intrigue with players picking a theology and a pantheon. theologies are how the character choices to interact with the world and they are a varied bunch so you got the wizard option next to the building a pocket dimension option which I like. Panthenions are sorta the structure the player comes from combined with the business relations they have (it's kinda weird and I have to read more to understand it).
After I got to the beginning of character creation. it sorta reminds me of d20 modern with how it has the player pick out an occupation and then giving out boons and curses based on that also you start getting attachments based on your occupation and thta reminds me of 3rd ed Exalted. and that's where I left off, on the whole I understand now why my friend was so interested in the book its hard to go wrong with a Highlander-X Files mashed up like this.
The comments in the DTRPG entry seem to agree there are a lot of mistakes. Not knowing the game, I don't know whether thats true or not. I don't think it just means typos either. I can forgive a couple of those
 
I was just pointing out/asking that Nexus likes Hero System. I apologize if it set people off.

It's okay. Reminded by the good old days on rpg.net. :grin:

Edit: I don't want to give the impression I'm trying to stifle anyone. If a board member wants to start a thread about how horrific Hero System is and how much they hate it they should feel free. I'm not going to come in and carpet bomb it with pro Hero propaganda. Tastes vary. Hell, I started to thread that's pretty negative about Exalted.But I like think its been pretty balanced by the positive posters and I've been clear these are my opinions and reactions not some objective judgment on the game and its fans. And more relevantly (IMO) I didn't start on my screeds in a, say, a thread on Godbound because some suggested Exalted as a viable alternative to an Exalted fan.

Honestly, I probably should have quietly put Trippy on IL at first and moved on but I thought I could pass over with a joke. There'd be laughs and we'd move on

It didn't work...

So setting the situation escalating as it did lays at least some what on me. It takes two to argue (barring serious mental issues...). I'll try to make this my last comment on the matter. Apologies for another display of grouchiness, but I wanted to be certain what prompted things on my issue were clear if possibly misguided.
 
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If it makes it any easier accept even the real world fundamentally (microscopic scale) has aspects of contradictory things being simultaneously true and different perspectives not lining up together (with this being nothing to do with the perspectives being unreliable). A world consisting of "facts" which are the same from all reliable perspectives only emerges on the large scales. So if the real world is like this, it might be easier to accept in a fantasy world.

I don't follow.
 
Maybe I was confused about what you meant, no worries. Just that the real world has a bit of "mutually contradicting things are true".
Are you talking quantum where a bit can be both on and off at the same time? What are real world examples that show two contradictory things being true? Just curious!
 
Are you talking quantum where a bit can be both on and off at the same time? What are real world examples that show two contradictory things being true? Just curious!

Its Schrodinger's world and we're just living/not living in it... :grin:
 
There are no real world examples on a macroscopic scale that we know of, yet. Although there are macroscopic scale examples of systems with quantum proprieties (Einstein-Bose condensates).

But the quantum mechanics rabbit hole goes a lot deeper than just "two contradictory things can be true at the same time". First of all: a system in a state of quantum coherency does not simply exist in two different and contradictory states; rather, the system simultaneously follows all possible paths, each with a "percentage of itself" which is equal to the probability of the system to be in that particular state.

Second: once you lose quantum coherency due to external observation by a sapient consciousness (i.e., a human), the system collapses into the state in which it was observed *and the whole universe behaves as if the system has always been in that state*.

This implies, among lots of other funny things, that every time you go and look up the sky at night, since you're observing photons emitted by stars at millions or billions light years of distance, at least a few of which have not interacted with anything and are thus still in a state of quantum coherency, and those photons were emitted millions or billions of years ago... the universe, to comply with your observation, instantly and retroactively adjusts itself for billions of years into the past.

Welcome to the fun of quantum philosophy!
 
The comments in the DTRPG entry seem to agree there are a lot of mistakes. Not knowing the game, I don't know whether thats true or not. I don't think it just means typos either. I can forgive a couple of those
I'd say the pdf is at a professional level even with a few typos but I'm a generous sort when I find an Indy product that I like.

well, according to Jung, the human mind's ability to conceive of and accept a paradox is the fundamental essence of religious belief...
Were breaking out the Jung and nobody is lamenting that Persona has no Tabletop equivalent:shock:?!?! Oh I have traveled far from my homeland to come to reach this distant shore.
 
I'd say the pdf is at a professional level even with a few typos but I'm a generous sort when I find an Indy product that I like.


Were breaking out the Jung and nobody is lamenting that Persona has no Tabletop equivalent:shock:?!?! Oh I have traveled far from my homeland to come to reach this distant shore.

 
I had to think about this a bit, because I could blather forever but wanted a succinct enough answer. I've a little aside on Schrodinger's cat in a spoiler since it's a tangent to the main point.

Are you talking quantum where a bit can be both on and off at the same time? What are real world examples that show two contradictory things being true? Just curious!
Firstly many expositions of quantum mechanics (QM for short) are bad for claiming stuff like "the particle is in two places at once" or even "everywhere at once". QM doesn't say anything of the sort. What it gives are chances for finding a "particle" in various locations. I have particle in quotations for a reason that will be apparent in a minute.

So if you turn on a silver oven and put a certain type of glass plate next to it, QM will predict the likelihood of different parts of the glass plate developing defects. Stuff like "there's a 17% chance the plate will develop a mark in the lower right corner".

That's the reason for Schrodinger's cat paradox. Early on when QM first appeared some people argued that these probabilities were really the particle being in several places at once. Schrodinger argued that QM can be used on anything, not just particles but even large objects like cats. So when QM is applied to the cat it spits out something like "50% dead + 50% alive". His actual point was then that this means there is even odds for it to be dead or alive. Not dead and alive, because dead and alive cats don't exist. So this whole "dead and alive", "here and there" stuff has been outdated for decades, but still appears in many books. Even worse they present it with the opposite conclusion to the intended one "Wow the cat is dead and alive!"

The real problem with QM is that when you try to use different detection equipment on the same object the results don't make sense together. So if you have microwaves confined in a box certain equipment will show it to be made of little "lumps" called photons. Furthermore the results you get from equipment measuring the heat properties of the box demand that it must be entirely made of these little lumps and nothing else. However use different equipment, like one that measures the effect of the microwaves in the box on electric wires, and their results can only be explained if the microwaves are continuous fields.

So for some equipment its made of particles, for others it's made of fields. The apparent composition of objects depends on the methods of observation. Strictly speaking for example hydrogen isn't really made of a proton and an electron, that's just a useful "fiction" to explain certain experiments.

Even worse the results are random. So if you try to detect the number of photons in a beam of light using a photodetector, the same beam of light can give the result that it's made of 10 photons and two seconds later the result that it's made of 10 million photons.

To not belabour this post more, the ultimate position you're driven to is that the light and matter aren't really made of particles or fields or any of the other concepts we developed in classical physics or everyday language. Based on the equipment you're using you're allowed use certain concepts and QM will tell you this, e.g. "Oh you're using a photodetector, well you can use that particle concept from classical physics to understand the results you get".

However no concept can be used in all experiments and due to Bell's theorem (and others) there's no way to combine the experiments to figure out the truth of what's going on.

Two dumb analogies.

A programming analogy:
QM gives you the API for the microscopic world, but not the real code for it which is "closed source" forever

An RPG analogy:
QM is the player's handbook for the microscopic world, but we know the DMG is written in a Lovecraftian language we can never understand
 
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well, according to Jung, the human mind's ability to conceive of and accept a paradox is the fundamental essence of religious belief...
IMO, there's no need for Jung when the concept can be clearly explained in a webcomic:tongue:!

Are you talking quantum where a bit can be both on and off at the same time? What are real world examples that show two contradictory things being true? Just curious!
My example, but let's refrain from giving actual examples of the above:
Have you ever watched a political debate where both sides claim victory over the same results:shade:?
 
From the discussion here and in the sister thread on Rpgnet, I don't think game (or its default setting) are really want I'm looking for. Going with Hero System and cribbing material from similar settings seems like it might work better for me. Thanks for participating everyone
 
Bit of a newcomer to hero systems but I have done my share of high point Gurps games (Owod vampire, werewolf and a kitbashed mage with heavy influence from Gurps Cabal). Assuming that hero system is as robust and universal as Gurps and yes there shouldn't be a problem with a demigod level campaign that retains the "flavor" of the mythology or pantheon or whatever elements you want. Just always have an eye open for neat ideas or mechanics to poach from other games.

example

I think scion has something cool with Ichor (the divine essence of gods) and being able to take it from fallen foes to heal your character or refresh their power pool. For the record I've all read scion 1ed many years back so it might've been changed since. but it is a cool way to add a reason for formalized dueling rules to my campaign where otherwise it would be a open brawl type combat.
 
From the discussion here and in the sister thread on Rpgnet, I don't think game (or its default setting) are really want I'm looking for. Going with Hero System and cribbing material from similar settings seems like it might work better for me. Thanks for participating everyone
Honestly, I don't think any Storytell-er/ing/ish game is the right fit for you.
Did you check Part-time Gods:devil:?
 
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