Self-publishing thread (s)

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Who on this board has self-published material before? Who has acted in an editorial or production capacity for a game publisher? Care to share your experiences?
 
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I'll lead. I'm not a game publisher, although I did the production work and wrote a bit of content for some 'zines back in the late Jurassic. I also did a stint working as a typesetter in jobbing print shops around the same period - so I've got a bit of background in the technical ins and outs of print production.

I'm interested in folks' experiences with self-published material. What did you produce? How did you source artwork? What were your experiences with production and distribution? Did you do your own editorial? Was it a collaborative work with some other party?

What was your experience? Tell us your story.
 
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I haven't, but wouldn't mind doing so.

Trouble is, I don't have much in the way of design flair, can't get much out of DTP Software and am a crap Project Manager.
 
I'm trying to publish something as well... I just can't get it finished as I keep changing my mind. I'll have all the art done and the layout - Its just I keep changing the frikken content.
 
I've worked in publishing as well as self-published (and published others), but those were in the legal and literary fields. Whatever you guys do, make sure you have someone else proofread the work before you publish it. :thumbsup:
 
Who on this board has self-published material before? Who has acted in an editorial or production capacity for a game publisher? Care to share your experiences?

I've edited a few things for other publishers and edited other peoples' contributions to my projects. Probably most notable editorial-only job was Veins of the Earth. What I saw there accorded with what I saw as an author. This is what I've seen:

-GMing and playing experience isn't optional in most parts of the process from editing to proofreading to layout. It's optional for artists--but in every single other part of the process it allows you to catch problems other people won't see.

-It's good to have at least 2 different GMs look at any RPG thing--preferably more. Each one is going to catch things about playability and communicating playability the other won't because the implications of a text seem obvious to them.

-Most of the conventional wisdom in the field is wrong because its hand-me-down advice from adjacent kinds of publishing. An RPG book is like a cook book--it's being used quickly in the moment while things are on fire. It needs special kinds of attention. Usability is the most important thing and it's not well-explored.

-If you pay people well (and hire people you want to pay well) they'll do good work. If you skimp, so will they--they have a lot of other projects to do. And the public will notice eventually because RPG people online love to talk about what they are using. The more someone has to interact with a work, the more accurate the reviews of that work will be. If someone spends 3 seconds looking at a painting they might say anything about it--if they spend 50 hours running games out of a book, the experiences they report will be true to their life and detailed.

-Vidchat beats email for anything important.

-Readers don't know what they want before the fact. You have to give them something they didn't know they wanted--that's why you're the creative team. The more someone is polling readers to ask what they want out of x y z before putting it out the less they know what they're doing. Readers will be very skeptical, on paper, of projects they adore once they come out.

-Art is part of the world-building and artists should be brought on as early in the process as possible. before the writing in some cases.

-The best way to source writers and artists is to look at-, and listen to-, fans of things you like already then expand outward.

-If someone's a straight shooter online in RPG spaces--they respond to points, make their own, ask questions, refuse to dismiss easily--they'll be good on a project. If they ever take any excuse to evade--sooner or later they'll blow up a project. These behaviors are avoidance strategies.

-Postage changes and overseas shipping are a big deal.

-Layout and information design are incredibly important and totally underdeveloped. There are hundreds of semi-decent RPG products out there that are ignored because nobody can find the ideas in them. Give any random module a makeover in terms of color-coding, indexing, usability and it becomes 50% more useful right away.

-Better to treat people like creative partners than employees whenever you can. People in games want to create: let them.

-Most fans are drawn in to projects by factors they can't identify or articulate, including details of graphic design and illustration. Word-of-mouth, however, will focus on what they can articulate, which is usually going to be mechanics and ideas. So do both right if you want good sales.

-Customer service matters because nobody in any industry complains more online than gamers. Nobody.

-At the low end of the scale, the biggest outlay of time is graphic design--if it's any good.

-A lot of new people can write good RPG material if you give them a project with small, limited goals. If you give them too much to do they'll never finish because of babies and day jobs.

-Never ever be afraid to fire a customer. For every vocal squeaky wheel who wants your grease and claims you'll crash and burn if they dont' get it, there's 20 more who are rolling their eyes and wish they would shut up so they can give you their money.

-Print what's in the room on the map and the world will love you forever

-Ditto fit the entire goddamn table on the same spread--theres never an excuse to spill unless its over 100 results.

-Write for a reader who is smart and owns a dictionary but assume they are easily confused by any unclear phrasing.

-Assume there will be mistakes at every stage from everyone including you. Check each other.

-If you get any kind of moral panic criticism, go hard in against it, have no fear. Trying to mollify anti-fans only invites more into your audience and you don't need them.
 
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Who on this board has self-published material before?

I have as Bat in the Attic Games.

What kind of advice you are looking for?

In general the process is straightforward but it is work. Unlike running a campaign, you have to take prep for a product to another level. You have to keep in mind that people can't read your mind and that it is going to be used in some way in actual play. So there is tension to find a balance between to terse or being too verbose. In general people start off being too verbose for a gaming product.

Every self-publisher has to bootstrap so they have to capital to plug the gaps in their skill sets. For example I always need a editor and outside of cartography I need art. I admit I half-assed it in those two department in my first project, the Majestic Wilderlands, but set aside the fund to make sure I can hire or buy (art) what I need.

If you can make a 100 sales a year at $5 net per copy, you will probably find the experience a worthwhile use of your hobby time. The $500 is enough to do something better next time and still have some money to pay for something nice for your hobby or for a dinner with the significant other.

Don't over promise and set realistic expectations. If want to see what amount of work it takes to be successful enough to earn a living look at what people like James Raggi do. Otherwise work at a pace that works with the time you have to devote to your hobby. And there is a spectrum of options one can choose.

You will have to promote yourself and your work at some level. And learn to play nice with the larger community. Everything that happens with your works lives and dies by what you do or don't do.

There is a certain amount of luck involved so if you remain interested keep developing your skills and options so you can take advantage of the opportunities that arise.

I can answer stuff on a wealth of technical details if you have questions.

Finally every choice you make in publishing has consequences. The key to make the experience fun and interesting for you is to understand those consequences so you can pick what works best for you.
 
I have as Bat in the Attic Games.

What kind of advice you are looking for?
Collected wisdom. I'm reasonably comfortable with the technical ins and outs of production as I used to work in that space at one point (although at that point bromide cameras and macs with 68k chips were still current tech).

Mostly, I like world building. I've got a nice line in I.T. contracting that would (I think) earn enough money to pay for artists and editorial assistance if I ever got enough down time to focus on it. This would let me bootstrap something and at least be able to tell if there was any sort of market for it. I know a couple of folks who do freelance editorial work and could get artwork done through the usual channels, or their Indonesian equivalents (My wife is Indonesian and her ex does freelance work for DC). If I were to conclude that the stuff I've been working on has really transcended the realm of being a heartbreaker then I might have a crack at self-publishing it.

Additionally, I suspect there are a number of regulars on this board who might be interested in self-publishing as well, so I think it might be good to stir up a bit of collected wisdom here. The idea was prompted by spittingimage spittingimage's question here where he asked about what to do with his bath house adventure.

So, for a start, I'd like to hear your stories - what did you do, what happened, what worked, what didn't work.

Maybe this (or another) thread could also go into some of the nuts and bolts later, but asking an open question will (I hope) also get people's views on what's important, what they had trouble with, what worked for them. I'm really looking to start with people who have done this telling their story.
 
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[ . . . ]
-Art is part of the world-building and artists should be brought on as early in the process as possible. before the writing in some cases.
I think I can see where you're coming from - Would you care to discuss some specific examples of how this has worked for you?
 
I think I can see where you're coming from - Would you care to discuss some specific examples of how this has worked for you?
I mean i'm the artist and writer on almost all my books so im not a good example, but when like Scrap Princess and Patrick Stuart work together often Scrap comes up with the art first and then PAtrick tries to describe what the creatures are.

Art makes an idea charismatic and communicable and, often, concrete. Also: if the art is specific enough, that's less you have to describe in the text and you can put effort elsewhere--how many times in a terrible old TSR module have you had to read through a description of a person you're looking right at?
 
Great thread. I'm hoping to self publish some adventures modules this year. I've also purchased Campaign Cartographer and hope to put that to good use as part of the process.
 
I worked in newspaper and magazine publishing for years and I’m familiar and comfortable with the software and printing requirements.
 
I've published a few things for fun and continue to do so and keep learning along the way. I do everything by myself (write, mapping, layout), but also collaborate with some friends (new and old) who usually help with the writing, ideas, and editing. It can be a lot of work....I say 'can be' because I don't really consider all of it work. In fact, sometimes I find it more fun to create them instead of playing the actual game! I enjoy getting all these ideas out of my head and typed up, but I also discovered a new pleasure--- learning how to do layout. I'm still a beginner, but looking back at my first few pieces of work, I feel like I have been steadily improving as I learn. I like doing layout so much that instead of waiting on my partners to finish their 'to do' lists, I bust out monthly 15+ page (biggest was 50+) adventures on a patreon...just so I can look for art and do layout. Sick, right?

I think the only thing I hate about the publishing gig is the advertising part. I suck at it, it makes me feel dumb, and I hate it...did I mention I hate it? So I'm actually considering to not advertise anymore because I do this for fun...and that's not fun.....and I hate it.

I'm still learning and may have bad advice (lol, but not on purpose), but happy to help anyone who might have questions or is struggling with something. I consider myself more a collaborator than a competitor.
 
I've published a few things for fun and continue to do so and keep learning along the way. I do everything by myself (write, mapping, layout), but also collaborate with some friends (new and old) who usually help with the writing, ideas, and editing. It can be a lot of work....I say 'can be' because I don't really consider all of it work. In fact, sometimes I find it more fun to create them instead of playing the actual game! I enjoy getting all these ideas out of my head and typed up, but I also discovered a new pleasure--- learning how to do layout. I'm still a beginner, but looking back at my first few pieces of work, I feel like I have been steadily improving as I learn. I like doing layout so much that instead of waiting on my partners to finish their 'to do' lists, I bust out monthly 15+ page (biggest was 50+) adventures on a patreon...just so I can look for art and do layout. Sick, right?

I think the only thing I hate about the publishing gig is the advertising part. I suck at it, it makes me feel dumb, and I hate it...did I mention I hate it? So I'm actually considering to not advertise anymore because I do this for fun...and that's not fun.....and I hate it.

I'm still learning and may have bad advice (lol, but not on purpose), but happy to help anyone who might have questions or is struggling with something. I consider myself more a collaborator than a competitor.
You like to type, have your own ideas and are doing layout by yourself. Have you considered getting a partner with good advertising skills:grin:?
 
I self publish. Not claiming to have any communicable knowledge due to being utter crap at it.
 
You like to type, have your own ideas and are doing layout by yourself. Have you considered getting a partner with good advertising skills:grin:?
A good thought, but then I would have to advertise that I'm looking for a good advertiser....it's a vicious circle..can never get away from it...:tongue:
 
I have a question for you self-publishers (let me know if I should move this to a new thread): I have created four editions of the same adventure for four different game systems (DCC, 5e, LotFP, and my own system). Should I release them all at once, or should I stagger them? I'm leaning towards the former, but someone advised the latter, so I want to hear what more experienced people say.
 
I have a question for you self-publishers (let me know if I should move this to a new thread): I have created four editions of the same adventure for four different game systems (DCC, 5e, LotFP, and my own system). Should I release them all at once, or should I stagger them? I'm leaning towards the former, but someone advised the latter, so I want to hear what more experienced people say.
I'm not a publisher of any kind but I could see publishing one and trying to drive it up the drivethrurpg ranks so it gets noticed before publishing more. Seems like you could end up being your own competition for attention putting them all out at once.
 
I have a question for you self-publishers (let me know if I should move this to a new thread): I have created four editions of the same adventure for four different game systems (DCC, 5e, LotFP, and my own system). Should I release them all at once, or should I stagger them? I'm leaning towards the former, but someone advised the latter, so I want to hear what more experienced people say.

It would make sense to release them all at once so customers can grab the game system they want....BUT...on Drivethrurpg, your adventure is alive for a month or 2...then it gets lost in the void. By releasing it by a new game system, you can potentially get more exposure--and your adventure could be alive for 5-6 months. Being a new adventure, and having it on that front page of new release--is a big deal. That's where all the eyes will be....so the longer you have something there, the better. It's why Deal of the Day, even if its 50% off is so great, cause all eyes are on it for a day and that exposure is key. I'd probably release one a month...and would start with the most popular system (5e?) cause when you re-release it, people will remember the cover if they were interested or put it in their wishlist and forgot about it.
 
Everyone is pretty much suggesting I stagger, and not just here. So thanks for making it pretty unanimous.

My next questions are ordering and interval, but Malrex Malrex already beat me to the punch.
I'd probably release one a month...and would start with the most popular system (5e?) cause when you re-release it, people will remember the cover if they were interested or put it in their wishlist and forgot about it.
I was thinking of leading off with DCC just because I thought a 5e product could get lost in the constant flood. You don't think that's a danger?

Also, I had been thinking of breaking releases up by a week, just because I figured things fall off the new releases list pretty quickly. I figured a completely un-hyped release falls off peoples' radars pretty quickly.
 
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I recall a blog post where an OSR adventure designer noted that his 5e versions far outsold his LL versions so take that as you will.
 
I recall a blog post where an OSR adventure designer noted that his 5e versions far outsold his LL versions so take that as you will.
I would definitely expect that to be the case, if I can capture anyone's attention for more than a second.
 
Should he start with 5E? I was kind of thinking an OSR system first to build buzz and have a smaller community get excited. Then once it has positive ranking release it for 5e.

But this is just my guess not based on any actual experience.
 
Should he start with 5E? I was kind of thinking an OSR system first to build buzz and have a smaller community get excited.
That's my initial instinct but I don't have enough experience to trust my instincts for this.
 
Hehe, honestly, I don't have enough experience with it either with conversions. I think there is something there with starting with the OSR product first but my thought process is that you do 5e first to address the concern of your adventure getting lost in the flood. You post the 5e version first....maybe it gets lost...you post DCC and people recognize that cover, they may remember it has a 5e version or had put it in their wishlist....you keep flashing that title page on New products, even if different ruleset, and it may capture that attention you are worried about losing. Whereas, if you start with an OSR product, the 5e people may not even bother looking at it...

In your adventure description, make sure you add a line that the adventure follows all the rule formats (DCC, Flame, 5e, etc.) Your biggest crowd (in my opinion) will be the 5e people.
 
That's a terrific post, and a lot of it looks like it will apply once I've been on DTR for a month or so and accumulated some PPP. So I'm definitely going to go over in more detail. The fact that it sounds like some of these tools come online after a month or so is an argument for greater staggering.

To be honest, my goal and expectation is not to make any significant money on this. Rather, it's to reach the maximum number of people. It just so happens that those goals are very well aligned, although I really don't expect anything worth calling income.
I’d also suggest sending a pdf or physical copy to B bryce0lynch for review if it is OSR as he is the best known online reviewer for that niche.
I think Bryce and PrinceofNothing PrinceofNothing know that they're going to hear from me once I put this out; I've corresponded a little with them both. Prince gave me a little feedback which was quite useful even though he got only a third of the way in so far as I last heard. And even though he hasn't seen this yet, I already know that Bryce will take me to task for the length. What can I say? It's warranted.

I think there's only one last step before I publish; DriveThruRPG has a good FAQ on how to prepare your PDF for release - issues like compression and compatibility. I'm going to run my docs and previews through those steps, open them up in a few viewers on my PC and ipad, and I think that's it.
 
I've read that article like 7 times in the past few years...and figuring out the Featured deal on DTRPG has always been on my To Do list, but I get too busy to get into it an figure it out.

I will say this though...that article, in my opinion, is great, but I think it mainly deals with new games, not necessarily new adventures. I definitely think it has some good advice, but the 12,000 copies and such for an adventure may not be the norm. Probably because as an adventure writer, your sales are mostly from DMs, whereas games have sales from players and DM's. I've looked at Kickstarters...usually it seems around 100-200 people might donate to a kickstarter for an OSR adventure and more if you are well known.That could be totally off though from own novice observations. Mr. Zweihander blew it out of the water which is cool to see and he may have better insight on adventures for his game.

I haven't tried the kickstarter route yet, I plan too this year for some art, but I do agree it takes awhile to get PPP's on DrivethruRPG. As an unknown person (I didn't have a blog and barely posted on a forum), it took me about 2 years to have enough PPP to do a Deal of the Day. But, as I've stated above, I suck at advertising. The Deal of the Day is amazing...you get a lot of people looking at your product. If I figure out the feature thing, maybe I can offer up a comparison.

If you don't plan to do a kickstarter, and dont have any PPP...then getting a review from Bryce and Prince will be your lifeblood. Getting a review from them is like having your adventure put on the front page of Drivethru again...especially if it gets a good review. I'd consider reaching out to Melan too.There is also a list of reviewers on MeWe: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/17M0QSXF1taslfVFe8JGI68S6-csIVOwInUg6TMzb_to/edit?usp=sharing

There is also bundles with other publishers. I've never been approached or have asked anyone to do a bundle, and not sure how it all works, but I'm sure donating an adventure to a bundle for a good cause--you can get on more email lists...or bundling with another publisher for profit may be a good way to expand your audience.

Finally--release your adventure during the weekday and not the weekend. Picked that up from Bryce's boards.

What's your own system Edgewise?
 
If you don't plan to do a kickstarter, and dont have any PPP...then getting a review from Bryce and Prince will be your lifeblood. Getting a review from them is like having your adventure put on the front page of Drivethru again...especially if it gets a good review. I'd consider reaching out to Melan too.There is also a list of reviewers on MeWe: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/17M0QSXF1taslfVFe8JGI68S6-csIVOwInUg6TMzb_to/edit?usp=sharing

There is also bundles with other publishers. I've never been approached or have asked anyone to do a bundle, and not sure how it all works, but I'm sure donating an adventure to a bundle for a good cause--you can get on more email lists...or bundling with another publisher for profit may be a good way to expand your audience.

Finally--release your adventure during the weekday and not the weekend. Picked that up from Bryce's boards.
Thanks! That all sounds like solid advice, and I will heed it.
What's your own system Edgewise?
Funny you should ask...Lark Fantasy just went live!
 
Cool. I look forward to checking it out. Do you intend to support it?
Beyond releasing my adventure for that ruleset, I have no long term plans as of yet. But if and when I put out other fantasy content, it will appear for Lark Fantasy among others.
 
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