EmperorNorton

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Also, just to point out, I said "play by post freeform, the ones you'd find back on livejournal" which is very different than saying "all play by post games".

Though I feel Tristram would identify all of those as "interactive fiction".
 

Faylar

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I tagged along on a female toon with my wife and her friend on WoW.

Women definately are into the sex rp. Lol
 

Tommy Brownell

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Also, just to point out, I said "play by post freeform, the ones you'd find back on livejournal" which is very different than saying "all play by post games".

Though I feel Tristram would identify all of those as "interactive fiction".
That was the type of game we were playing, and why I didn't last very long. I was too much of a "traditional gamer" at that point. I needed more structure.
 

TristramEvans

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Made me sad because I was never a WolverJean guy, preferring Silver Fox, Mariko, or literally any other love interest.
I thought the Jubilee thing circa the 90s was a little weird.



I really wish they'd let Jean Grey stay dead. The Phoenix saga was such a high point, and I don't mind the Scott/Jean/Wolvie triangle in the context of that one epic storyline. It was a doomed attraction with an inevitably tragic end, which works. As a continuing thing though, yeah, it totally lost my interest.

Personally I like it when Wolverine's GF's are villains. Yukio, Viper, etc.
 
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TristramEvans

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Why? Generalized statements of course lose nuance, everyone is an individual, but large scale trends do exist.
I'm sure they do, but they rarely correspond to personal experiences. And, since they aren't universal, by nature, I kinda wonder what the point of them are outside of marketing?
 

TristramEvans

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Also, just to point out, I said "play by post freeform, the ones you'd find back on livejournal" which is very different than saying "all play by post games".

Though I feel Tristram would identify all of those as "interactive fiction".
I dunno, I'm talking about the completely freeform forum post games, or ones that used to inhabit AoL chatrooms, when those were a thing. Not at all familiar with Livejournal, though it does sound like it could be more of the participatory fanfic stuff.
 

Endless Flight

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Marvel Comics really hit rock bottom in the 90s and was about to go under. It looked good at the turn of the millennium until Queseda decided to make some of the worst decisions Marvel has ever seen.
 

Endless Flight

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I dunno, I'm talking about the completely freeform forum post games, or ones that used to inhabit AoL chatrooms, when those were a thing. Not at all familiar with Livejournal, though it does sound like it could be more of the participatory fanfic stuff.
I used to have fun in the late 90s doing freeform in AOL chats. Usually stuck to the Star Wars Cantina ones though.
 

EmperorNorton

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I'm sure they do, but they rarely correspond to personal experiences. And, since they aren't universal, by nature, I kinda wonder what the point of them are outside of marketing?
I find large scale trends like that interesting, especially when this forum is mostly (with the exception of ladybird and tulpa girl) dudes talking about games. Basically: I don't think we are getting a holistic discussion from the types of people who would be more likely to play this style of game. (Actually one of my players has run Apocalypse World. I wasn't in the game though, so no idea how they approached it).
 

EmperorNorton

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Marvel Comics really hit rock bottom in the 90s and was about to go under. It looked good at the turn of the millennium until Queseda decided to make some of the worst decisions Marvel has ever seen.
I'm a stupidly big X-Men fan. I've read literally every X-Men related comic from the 1960s through the mid 2000s. It took months. The 90s was literally death by X-Man. They had something like 20ish X-Related comics coming out every month, and Wolverine was in probably half of them.

It was very hit and miss though. Some were Ok, some were abysmal, some were ok but then had creative changes so often they got horrible (Generation X was actually good at some points then miserable at others because they kept changing the artists and writers).

I still like Age of Apocalypse (though, it is the most 90s of 90s things), but yeah, the 90s were so uneven.
 

SavAce

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I kinda think this thread isn't really well suited for someone positively inclined towards the idea that "Sex Moves" could add anything interesting to a game. Like, the 1st couple pages had a few posts along those lines, but now is mostly "I don't get it", "I think it's ridiculous", "This kind of thing leads to conservatives having bad opinions of gamers", "Here are some cheap sex puns, ha, ha." Then it's moved on to arguing about if certain communities did or did not have sex stuff in their gaming. The unstated assumption seeming to be that their existence or lack of existence by proxy validates or invalidates the idea, or truth of the popularity of the idea or whatever. The few that that posted earlier on, that may have had curiosity or wanted to consider the subject saw the way the wind was blowing and bailed. I think, to address EmperorNorton's point of:
I don't think we are getting a holistic discussion from the types of people who would be more likely to play this style of game.
The reason is basically that. It's not the kind of thread a person interested in that kind of game would want to post in.
 

TristramEvans

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I find large scale trends like that interesting,
I mean, though, we're not talking about something that's been established, it's personal experience interpreted as a large scale trend.

Anyways, it's just a personal thing, I just tend to reject such things, by nature. If you find it interesting, that's cool. Just not something I'm into.


especially when this forum is mostly (with the exception of ladybird and tulpa girl) dudes talking about games. Basically: I don't think we are getting a holistic discussion from the types of people who would be more likely to play this style of game. (Actually one of my players has run Apocalypse World. I wasn't in the game though, so no idea how they approached it).
It's the internet, we really have no idea who we're talking to. Not that I'm saying the Pub is a demographic representation of anything.
 

TristramEvans

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I kinda think this thread isn't really well suited for someone positively inclined towards the idea that "Sex Moves" could add anything interesting to a game.
That's OK, though.
 

TristramEvans

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Is it though? In context of some discussions we've had just recently, is dumping on something or mocking it in the first few posts of a thread about it really OK.

Like either it is or it isn't.
I think it's about aggression. I don't think anything (RPG-related) is off-limits making jokes about.
 

SavAce

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That's OK, though.
I think it can be. Like, this thread just started with an info dump on what AW Sex Moves were, so those unfamiliar could maybe get a bit of a sense of what they were, so it was a more "general audience" kind of thing. If someone trying to start convos assuming interest in the idea kept having their threads follow the path of this one, it'd be kinda disappointing though. It'd be a kind of "Joker's Veto", which I think this kind of subject is very vulnerable to.
 

EmperorNorton

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Idk, I think that both do the same thing: Anyone who actually enjoys the mechanic is immediately either put on the defensive or just doesn't want to join in because they feel they will be mocked.

Plus, I 100% think that Gygax hiding behind a file cabinet is hilarious, but making fun of all the stories I hear about his GM style probably wouldn't be kosher in a thread about Gygax.
 

TristramEvans

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I think it can be. Like, this thread just started with an info dump on what AW Sex Moves were, so those unfamiliar could maybe get a bit of a sense of what they were, so it was a more "general audience" kind of thing. If someone trying to start convos assuming interest in the idea kept having their threads follow the path of this one, it'd be kinda disappointing though. It'd be a kind of "Joker's Veto", which I think this kind of subject is very vulnerable to.
If there's a PbtA thread and people are trying to have a serious conversation about these moves or any aspect of the games and are being mocked or threadcrapped, please report it. That is something we're trying to cut down on at The Pub.
 

TristramEvans

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Idk, I think that both do the same thing: Anyone who actually enjoys the mechanic is immediately either put on the defensive or just doesn't want to join in because they feel they will be mocked.
There has to be a distinguishment between people and their preferences though, otherwise we go to the position nothing can be mocked or criticized because someone feels personally invested in that external thing so they take it as a mocking or criticism of themselves. The Pub has an established culture of humour, and I don't want to sacrifice that because of what is ultimately a personal hang-up.

Plus, I 100% think that Gygax hiding behind a file cabinet is hilarious, but making fun of all the stories I hear about his GM style probably wouldn't be kosher in a thread about Gygax.
It would depend on the thread. You could drop it into the Gygax vs Realism thread no problem. If it was a thread about Old School playstyles, not so much.
 

Tommy Brownell

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I'm a stupidly big X-Men fan. I've read literally every X-Men related comic from the 1960s through the mid 2000s. It took months. The 90s was literally death by X-Man. They had something like 20ish X-Related comics coming out every month, and Wolverine was in probably half of them.

It was very hit and miss though. Some were Ok, some were abysmal, some were ok but then had creative changes so often they got horrible (Generation X was actually good at some points then miserable at others because they kept changing the artists and writers).

I still like Age of Apocalypse (though, it is the most 90s of 90s things), but yeah, the 90s were so uneven.
I still prefer the 90s to almost everything that came after, but that's a whole rant.

Idk, I think that both do the same thing: Anyone who actually enjoys the mechanic is immediately either put on the defensive or just doesn't want to join in because they feel they will be mocked.
I didn't actually understand sex moves until this thread, having never read Apocalypse World, and having only skimmed Monsterhearts.

After this thread, I'm way more okay with the idea. And I have pretty thick skin about people being judgy.
 

TristramEvans

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I still prefer the 90s to almost everything that came after, but that's a whole rant.
I pretty much stopped reading supers comics in the 90s, with a few rare exceptions since., so I haven't really seen how far down the rabbithole the new stuff is. From what I've glimpsed, I doubt I would recognize any of the characters I grew up with. I think Quesada effectively brought an end to the Marvel Universe I grew up with.
 

Tommy Brownell

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I pretty much stopped reading supers comics in the 90s, with a few rare exceptions since., so I haven't really seen how far down the rabbithole the new stuff is. From what I've glimpsed, I doubt I would recognize any of the characters I grew up with. I think Quesada effectively brought an end to the Marvel Universe I grew up with.
The good guys all became bad guys, the bad guys all joined the good guy teams, and everyone got replaced by someone who could do their job "better", as we were constantly reminded in every issue of every book the replacements appeared in.
 

EmperorNorton

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Eh, I think that Marvel has been up and down forever to be honest. Some of their stuff is pretty decent, some of it is bad, and a lot of it is destroyed by editorial meddling (event fatigue was definitely a thing during the 00s).

But you still get some really good stuff like Kieron Gillen's run on Journey into Mystery, or the Matt Fraction/David Aja Hawkeye run.
 

Silverlion

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I pretty much stopped reading supers comics in the 90s, with a few rare exceptions since., so I haven't really seen how far down the rabbithole the new stuff is. From what I've glimpsed, I doubt I would recognize any of the characters I grew up with. I think Quesada effectively brought an end to the Marvel Universe I grew up with.

To some extent, I agree with you though Ms. Marvel and Squirrel Girl, and surprisingly recent Spider-Man have done well so far in bringing back my interest.
 

Justin Alexander

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The good guys all became bad guys, the bad guys all joined the good guy teams, and everyone got replaced by someone who could do their job "better", as we were constantly reminded in every issue of every book the replacements appeared in.
So it's the Silver Age?
 

Baeraad

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this forum is mostly (with the exception of ladybird and tulpa girl) dudes talking about games.
I tried to recruit another a while back, but she doesn't seem to have stuck around. For what it's worth, I think she blanched less at the blokeyness and more at the wall of roleplaying jargon. :tongue: Possibly we should keep some sort of lexicon somewhere...
 

Ladybird

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Yep, all girls are perverts.
In my Mazes and Minotaurs game last year, our bard slept with the big villain, before he revealed his villainy. She was pretty embarrassed about that. We spent weeks making fun of her.

...and then they get to the final scene of the adventure, where a bunch of men, naked except for bull masks, rush in to the king's throne room and try to murder him. Naturally, a fight ensues. At the start of her turn, I ask the bard to make a Mystic Fortitude save - no reason.

Until she makes it.

"Hey, that guy in the mask over there. You recognize that penis."
 

EmperorNorton

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I tried to recruit another a while back, but she doesn't seem to have stuck around. For what it's worth, I think she blanched less at the blokeyness and more at the wall of roleplaying jargon. :tongue: Possibly we should keep some sort of lexicon somewhere...
This is also another trend I notice: I've very rarely met women who are is into the geeky navelgazing of rpg theory/mechanics. A lot of female PLAYERS and even GMs, but the kind of stuff we do here, for some reason, just doesn't resonate.

I don't know why specifically that seems to be a trend, but *shrug*.

(I mean, I did make a comment on TheRPGSite once about my theory of the low amount of female posters over there, but this forum doesn't have that same problem.)
 

TristramEvans

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Most girls I know won't engage in volatile conversations with men, regardless of what they are interested in. But one only need stop by any of the major knitting forums to instantly disprove the notion that groups of (majority) women don't enjoy the same amount of geeky navelgazing regarding hobby minutia and terminology.
 

EmperorNorton

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Most girls I know won't engage in volatile conversations with men, regardless of what they are interested in. But one only need stop by any of the major knitting forums to instantly disprove the notion that groups of (majority) women don't enjoy the same amount of geeky navelgazing regarding hobby minutia and terminology.
They do, but I've rarely ever seen it be about RPG Mechanics/History. Even in places that are predominately women discussing tabletop rpgs (which may also be because the only place that I know that is predominately women and discussing tabletop rpgs is my play groups (and I know that these people will enter volatile conversations with me, as we've had them on other subjects, like the fact that I called In-N-Out overrated once (they were from Cali)). The whole division of stuff like traditional games/story games/etc, narrative mechanics, disassociated mechanics, all that stuff they don't seem to really care about, and only seem to know about because I've mentioned it.

Granted, part of that could be a combination of things. Like you say, most women don't want to engage in volatile conversations with men, which keeps them out of a lot of the places who would get into the kind of minutia we get into, so they tend to know less of it, which makes them care less about those kinds of conversations, and then its turtles all the way down. And to be completely honest: most of the stuff we talk about has no actual relationship to gaming at the table.

I mean, to be honest, before I started discussing the differences on RPG forums, I didn't really differentiate the "categories" of games either. And still for my own enjoyment I don't really care about the differences other than that they can be used to identify a game that might fit the style I'm going for at the moment.
 

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I started to write a post about how all the women I've roleplayed with at length seemed to be all about the fluff and having an aggressive disinterest in the crunch, but then it occurred to me that that actually describes most of the men I've roleplayed with at length, also. So it may be more about the sort of campaigns I run than anything else. :tongue:
 

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I like Urban Shadows’ Intimacy moves, because they’re broadened to be any downtime interaction between characters that build up their relationships. It can be hanging out at the bar and the PCs let their defences down to reveal motives and background details. It can be the characters bonding over research or car repair.

And yes, it can be sexy time too if players wanna go there, but I admit that I don’t expect any of my friends to go there, but you never know.
 

EmperorNorton

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I like Urban Shadows’ Intimacy moves, because they’re broadened to be any downtime interaction between characters that build up their relationships. It can be hanging out at the bar and the PCs let their defences down to reveal motives and background details. It can be the characters bonding over research or car repair.

And yes, it can be sexy time too if players wanna go there, but I admit that I don’t expect any of my friends to go there, but you never know.
That does sound more like something I'd use in a game.
 

silva

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I started to write a post about how all the women I've roleplayed with at length seemed to be all about the fluff and having an aggressive disinterest in the crunch, but then it occurred to me that that actually describes most of the men I've roleplayed with at length, also. So it may be more about the sort of campaigns I run than anything else. :tongue:
In my own experience men do have some interest in mechanics, only not to the degree we forum rats do. Women though? Zero interest. Fluff only.

And it was clear from our PbtA games that its queer/girly stuff totally excited them. "What, am I supposed to say how do I look like in detail? Who I'm in love with and who is my rival? Sex moves? Cool!"
 
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