Tommy Brownell

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So it's the Silver Age?
I don't REMEMBER all the good guys turning bad in the Silver Age, and hero teams suddenly adding vicious murderers for Reasons, but maybe I'm wrong.

If so, then the real sin is apparently that The House of Ideas is - once more - just bland and unoriginal.

Eh, I think that Marvel has been up and down forever to be honest. Some of their stuff is pretty decent, some of it is bad, and a lot of it is destroyed by editorial meddling (event fatigue was definitely a thing during the 00s).

But you still get some really good stuff like Kieron Gillen's run on Journey into Mystery, or the Matt Fraction/David Aja Hawkeye run.
That Hawkeye run was both a fun book and exactly what I was talking about: Hawkeye went from being not only a competent superhero but the leader of the Thunderbolts (in an amazing arc), to a loser that basically nobody took seriously while we were shown in every issue that Kate Bishop (who I absolutely love) was Absolutely Better At Being Hawkeye And Being A Hero In Every Single Way.
 

EmperorNorton

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@Tommy Brownell I kind of disagree on that. Kate shows a lot of flaws in that run as well. She seems literally incapable of understanding how to live as not a rich person for instance.
 

Silverlion

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I've no ideas about the direction of women in RPG's because those I've played games with offline tended to want to play pretty much the same games as I do in the same way. That may say something more about my friends and family, then anything to do with "women," in general.

Example: My sister is one of the best GM's I know, a huge number of her players are male. She's a huge fondness for large groups and White Wolf, which is not explicitly her only preference just those are what happens when she offers to run a game. (She loves WW stuff, I don't think she cares about editions or anything.) But if she says she'll run a huge number of people will line up to play. She's also willing to play games I run (D&D, Atomic Highway which she adores for my take on the latter's "setting") as well.

Do her games differ from mine? Some, but not as much as you'd think, other than current choice for systems. (She was running some young teens for work via D&D 5E, but she had to step down and let someone else take over, because of said work. The goal is to get them to learn gaming well enough to run their own group.)

Others have varied--many I've played with offline include my ex-wife (who enjoyed my games but couldn't deal with my depression.) A couple of past girlfriends, and usually other people's S.O. Usually, they enjoyed my games just fine and my "fade to black" method just fine. I also listened to what they wanted. Albeit in some cases it was the women who were invited who dragged in their male SO's. (In one case we had a choice to keep one member of a split couple and kept the young woman, because honestly, she was a great player, though before the split we had to as a group step in and tell her S.O. that she could choose in character to do whatever she wanted, so stop telling her what YOU think she should do, and let her do what she wants to with her character.)

One friend's wife stopped playing entirely because she had other hobbies and interests to eat up her time.

Online? It's kind of more extreme. A lot of the women I know are game creators/writer's, some are not, often I play in games with them for some time and they like similar things (Note: For the most part I assume anyone I play with online is male unless explicitly directed to not do that, then I don't.) I try and treat everyone as just gamers.

I've had one tell me explicitly she didn't want her characters to be assumed to be automatically a 'caregiver' because she had bad experiences with men assuming because she was female that her female characters would want to do that. She tended to play male characters to avoid that. But that preference was taken into account.

I will tell you, honestly, that I've seen it be common in male players to adopt random NPC's who seem young and need help. This is notable because I don't try and foist it on anyone--but it is also how we have a mascot/pet Dragon (though quite small about large housecat size) in our Necessary Evil game entirely made up of guy players (and the female character didn't want to keep it.) So it is not above me to fall into adopting said critter either--though I at least can talk to the Dragon to find out what he wants. (A magic spell went awry and summoned a dragon, the counterspell reduced the power of the summoning--which shrank the dragon. So it is a BIG dragon normally.)

It's also why the cleric (noble) in my D&D hired two teens to be his entourage and was basically squiring them, though another player left the game and his character took them with him for safety reasons. To be fair, it wasn't the cleric or other PC that put them in dangerous situations but a third player who left and his character. Now the noble cleric has two more followers (both older a bit than the teens, but still young) though since we have a large playgroup they are literally left to do just the normal "take care of animals/help with camp." kind of things.

People like what they like, and gaming IS changing we're getting more and more female players--but, from experience of 39 years, they're all individuals just like we are and I can't really generalize too much.


I will note though that Pbta games and even D&D assume a limited group size of 4-5 people at most. (True of a lot of card and board games as well these days) and I've rarely had the option of such a small group--oh its the sweet spot for me, in giving players enough to do, and enough time to explore more than straight "adventure" options.
My D&D group started with four. Now its eight, not counting me. My friend's only game group is four though. (Despite one friends repeated attempts to get his SO into it, she really just doesn't seem interested, and that's alright.)
 
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EmperorNorton

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My experience, we've always had female players and GMs. Nothing has really changed as much there, other than maybe them being more visible.

And nothing about what I said had anything to do with them not being capable GMs, so I don't know why you seemed to take that perspective. My wife is a fine GM. So is one of my other players. Just neither of them care as much about the system nuance and endless minutia of categorization and delineation that characterizes pretty much all RPG forums I've ever seen.

And honestly: Probably for the better. I often wonder if anything we talk about here has any real meaning in games. I like to think that all the navelgazing and pontificating and defending points and all that makes for better designed games. That people understanding the why's of design helps them in designing stuff that matches the audience they want better.

But... Idk, has it really? I can point to a lot of games that I like that do descend from some of the online babbling, but did they descend from the babbling, or the general ideas just expressed through other games already.

Or how much has any "help with a game situation" thread ever actually helped anyone. Cause the answers almost never be about helping the GM find their style, but with foisting the style they like onto them. And if the person asking for help expresses a different style preference... well that generally doesn't' go well.

Basically: The fact that I've found women tend to not care as much about this side of the hobby is in no way a condemnation of women. I kind of think they may have the right idea of it to be honest.
 

Tommy Brownell

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I've had one tell me explicitly she didn't want her characters to be assumed to be automatically a 'caregiver' because she had bad experiences with men assuming because she was female that her female characters would want to do that. She tended to play male characters to avoid that. But that preference was taken into account.
Lone female gamer in our current group tends to veer towards playing the combat monster (no matter the game).

I have a sneaking suspicion as to why, but also little desire to psychoanalyze her.

And honestly: Probably for the better. I often wonder if anything we talk about here has any real meaning in games. I like to think that all the navelgazing and pontificating and defending points and all that makes for better designed games. That people understanding the why's of design helps them in designing stuff that matches the audience they want better.
I hang around RPG forums and groups a lot more when I’m not actually gaming. I have no illusions about what it is: I have friends and acquaintances here, and it very slightly scratches an itch by being gaming-adjacent, but it’s not impacting the industry or usually even my own game.
 
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EmperorNorton

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Just calling me out there :tongue: (I'm here a lot the last week because both of my games got cancelled due to various unavoidable circumstances. Luckily doesn't happen that often).
 

Tommy Brownell

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Just calling me out there :tongue: (I'm here a lot the last week because both of my games got cancelled due to various unavoidable circumstances. Luckily doesn't happen that often).
We’re on a dry spell due to Real Life and my refusal to just plow on with a missing player.
 

Silverlion

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My experience, we've always had female players and GMs. Nothing has really changed as much there, other than maybe them being more visible.

And nothing about what I said had anything to do with them not being capable GMs, so I don't know why you seemed to take that perspective. My wife is a fine GM. So is one of my other players. Just neither of them care as much about the system nuance and endless minutia of categorization and delineation that characterizes pretty much all RPG forums I've ever seen.
I hope that wasn't directed at my post specifically, because I know they're all capable GM's. I just want to iterate my sister is fantastic, and one of the best I know. She and I don't always get along, but I know she's got a talent there, and I'm proud of her (for a lot of things, and no she doesn't read this forum so she'll never know it.)
 

Toadmaster

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I've skimmed through AW due to my love of all things PA, but it doesn't really do much for me. I do find it kind of interesting though how much of a rise the "sex moves" gets out of people even though it is strictly fade to black. I'm not aware of any game that actually has "sex mechanics" that isn't of the fade to black type, for all its faults I don't think that the "most offensive game ever" FATAL went there.

AWs sex moves just nudge the line of making a seduction roll which prudes can dismiss as sweet talk and horn dogs can make OOC innuendos about to just saying, here is what you get for going there, but your character did a little more than whisper sweet nothings. This can have in game ramifications if that wasn't the best idea. No backing out from sleeping with the mayors daughter by saying, I just said she was cute. no you full well got the info for doing what the mayor is having you charged with.


These threads always bring out the comments from people who don't want detailed sex acts in their game (which is fine, I'm not into players describing how they counter the NPCs Canadian Short Bus with their own Undercover Trampoline at the table either). In reality though that seems to be along the lines of a Tijuana Donkey Show, everybody has a friend who no shit saw one, but nobody actually has first hand knowledge of it.

This is my new favorite random table, watch out for the Russian Crock-Pot and Mississippi Snowblower. Not even going there with the Angry Patty Melt.
 

Justin Alexander

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I don't REMEMBER all the good guys turning bad in the Silver Age, and hero teams suddenly adding vicious murderers for Reasons, but maybe I'm wrong.
You kinda moved the goal posts there from "bad guys joining the good guy teams" to "vicious murderers." But...

That Hawkeye run was both a fun book
Oh, you're a Hawkeye fan! Man, you're a member of the lucky 10,000 today! Go check out the early Avengers issues where the team was literally made up of Captain America and three former villains. (Two of them literal terrorists!)
 

Gabriel

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Stuff like The Marauders living at the X-Mansion was a bit much for me.

but cool, you win this internet argument bro.
Wait.. what???

Scalphunter, Riptide, Harpoon, Prism, Arclight, Blockbuster, Vertigo, Malice? As in living at the X-Mansion as welcome guests? Is that what you're saying? The guys that murdered hundreds of Morlocks, maimed Nightcrawler, Shadowcat, and Angel, and nearly punched Colossus's ticket?

'sok, we're buds now.

When the hell did this happen?
 

Tommy Brownell

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Wait.. what???

Scalphunter, Riptide, Harpoon, Prism, Arclight, Blockbuster, Vertigo, Malice? As in living at the X-Mansion as welcome guests? Is that what you're saying? The guys that murdered hundreds of Morlocks, maimed Nightcrawler, Shadowcat, and Angel, and nearly punched Colossus's ticket?

'sok, we're buds now.

When the hell did this happen?
after House of M. all known remaining mutants - even sadistic ones that hunted Morlocks for sport - were brought to the mansion. Not as prisoners of the X-Men (like Sabertooth once was), but under watch from the government.

just another mess in a long line of them.
 

Faylar

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I've noticed no difference in game style or play at any table with women. The only real difference is in experience. Most women I played with are wives who decided to try.
Some are brilliant roleplayers, others not. Some love the dice play, others not so much.
They geek out and tangent like all other gamers and are as lewd as anyone else.
We dont do rape jokes or scenarios around them but we never really did anyways and those of us who were prone to it outgrew it anyway.
 

TristramEvans

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I've noticed no difference in game style or play at any table with women. The only real difference is in experience. Most women I played with are wives who decided to try.
Some are brilliant roleplayers, others not. Some love the dice play, others not so much.
They geek out and tangent like all other gamers and are as lewd as anyone else.
We dont do rape jokes or scenarios around them but we never really did anyways and those of us who were prone to it outgrew it anyway.

My experience as well.

They're just people, y'know. A collection of individuals, same as everyone. While I'm sure there's areas in life gender matters, I can't imagine "playing games" ever being one of them.
 

soltakss

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I have only played Monsterhearts once, at a convention. I played a seedy, sad little Fonzalike who had a group of friends who hung out in the flat above his father's autoshop. Basically, he knew that after High school finished, he would be joining his 4 older brothers as a mechanic in his dad's firm, so took shop as about the only thing he was good at. He was also the Hive, so the people he had sex with became part of his collective. he had two blokes and a girl as followers, what happens in the flat above the garage stays in the flat above the garage. anyway, they were at a dance, he rolls up in his van with a mattress in the back and his cronies in the front, they hang out a bit and he tries to chat up this hot cheerleader, rolling a 15 (12 + 3 hot) "Is that good?", so she disappears upstairs with this sleazy chap. The Vampire in the party, my archenemy, sends a girl to my room armed with a secret camera, he had enthralled her to have sex with me and to use the film as blackmail.So, she meets me dressed in bondage gear, as I took the cheerleader to a room and I invite her along. When I use my Sex Move on her, she joins my gang, but is enthralled, so passes out. We go back downstairs, when the girl member of my gang gets jealous and mouths off, so I backhand her, being a really classy guy, then take another couple upstairs, with my gang members. as we get down to business, we hear snarls and screams, so we just barricade the door and have an orgy. The rest of the high schoolers are slaughtered and when the police come, we are the only survivors. The Vampire, who legged it, sells the film and I become an internet porn sensation.

Possibly the most satisfactory ending to a Convention game I have ever had.

So, I really liked Monsterhearts as a fun and entertaining game.
 

Voros

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I could see using MH for a game of Heathers or Massacre at Central High.

 

David Johansen

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So now I'm thinking about Rolemaster sex skills. Athletic Endurance category probably. Maybe some specific maneuvers in Athletic Gymnastic. Seduction is in the Influence cateorgy but would prostitution be in Tech/Trade General or Tech/Trade Professional? But more importantly rolling on the sex fumble table. I'm thinking I could probably fill the entire chart. E00 Partner dies of a heartattack while on top it takes three rounds to get out. The 66 column might need to be replaced with 69.
 
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