Sharing real world expertise as a gaming resource - AMA

[AsenRG]

I think he's saying, if you are too 'slow' to learn to read even from this excellent teacher, you'll get your money back.

Basel was a University town and a place with a high level of literacy, literacy was kind of needed for work. It was normal to send invoices and receipts and so on. In the second painting you can see two guys dressed as artisans trying pretty intensively (from their body language) to learn to read. I imagine it was pretty stressful to not have at least vernacular literacy if you were a burgher. For a peasant it would be perhaps more aspirational in terms of social mobility.

Nah, that's the last line. I'm referring to the previous sentence.

 

[Stumpydave]

Non-practising mental health nurse if you want some truth about psych units (typically not half as many serial killers, nor containing quite so many unethical superhuman experiments as Hollywood would lead you to believe).

 

[carpocratian]

These are all the towns with printing presses by 1500, the size of the circle indicates the number of books printed. Books printed before 1500 are called incunabla.

I once got to hold and leaf through an incunabula. The colors of the illustrations were just as bright and vibrant as they were hundreds of years ago. If I hadn't been in a rare book room at a university library, I would have sworn it was a modern creation.

 

[AsenRG]

Non-practising mental health nurse if you want some truth about psych units (typically not half as many serial killers, nor containing quite so many unethical superhuman experiments as Hollywood would lead you to believe).

You mean...Hollywood lied to us?

I once got to hold and leaf through an incunabula. The colors of the illustrations were just as bright and vibrant as they were hundreds of years ago. If I hadn't been in a rare book room at a university library, I would have sworn it was a modern creation.

"They used to make things to last".
...Actually, I fully believe that. That trend became more visible even in my lifetime, and I'm not even in the older segment of the Pub's population! And I'd bet a stone knife that never rusts and is hard to break would be even more durable than other tools!

 

[Sharrow]

I once got to hold and leaf through an incunabula. The colors of the illustrations were just as bright and vibrant as they were hundreds of years ago. If I hadn't been in a rare book room at a university library, I would have sworn it was a modern creation.

The oldest text I've ever got to lay my hands on was an original printing of Johnson's dictionary (1755) that my university had. These days you can look it up online, and enjoy entries such as that for 'oats'.

 

[Dyrnwyn]

Dyrnwyn
Human (Solomani) Age 44
Scholar 1 (Rank 1)/Merchant 5 (Rank 3)
Homeworld: Terra, Sol Subsector, Solomani Rim Sector

I don't want to go to the effort of determining the rest of the writeup for now.

But anyway, yes, I have a lot of experience in the mercantile world, at the big-company level and in various roles. I've seen the inner workings of a number of large retailers and manufacturers in the US and Canada and have helped bring various new products to market, along with finding ways to increase the sales of existing ones.

Academically, my background is in advertising/PR as well as business and tech writing, with an advanced degree in the latter. I wrote for a student publication in college and still do some copywriting in my current role, both for packaging design and e-commerce.

In my youth, I like to say I was a multiclassed Bard/Ranger, being an Eagle Scout who was very active in music and theatre. It's been a while since I've camped or performed music, but I feel I could get back into either pretty easily.

So I guess I'm your guy if you need someone to run your trade-heavy game, or someone who can convincingly depict a cyberpunk megacorporation.

 

[AsenRG]

Dyrnwyn
Human (Solomani) Age 44
Scholar 1 (Rank 1)/Merchant 5 (Rank 3)
Homeworld: Terra, Sol Subsector, Solomani Rim Sector

Hmm...Scholar 1 or University Degree at the start?

 

[Dyrnwyn]

Hmm...Scholar 1 or University Degree at the start?

I guess it depends on which version of the rules and books we're using. I just tried to come up with a rough approximation of my background.

 

[AsenRG]

I guess it depends on which version of the rules and books we're using. I just tried to come up with a rough approximation of my background.

Yes, I know, and I edition-nitpicked you!

 

[Teotwawki]

Three dozen in the whole solar system or three dozen of those currently identified?

Identified. There's a million--probably one point five or more--asteroids in the galaxy. Only about 15k named. Of those, about 1000 are tracked by JPL/NASA.

If they wanted to put people on Mars, wouldn't they need to live underground?

Initially, probably quonset hut/geodesic domes. But for viability, underground with a water source would be required. But my knowledge of this aspect would be the field research who could tell you where to dig, but not what to put in the hole once it's dug.

What military issues do you see around asteroid mining? The existing rivalries on earth spreading into space or something more than that?

Nope. The existing rivalries and political claims are the big issues. This would get shadier as corporations became involved.

Hurricane Katrina cured me of all my dystopian future fantasies. Nobody ever showed how boring and uncomfortable it is.

A statement that guides our games like T2k. A lot of boring hungry discomfort mixed with brief bouts of pants-shitting terror is the actual post-apocalypse world. Miraculously clean hair, cute girls with make up, engine lubricants & un-evaporated fuel, convenient stockpiles of food, and no shortage of ammo is the fetish dream. But other people's game worlds evidently vary.

 

[AsenRG]

A statement that guides our games like T2k. A lot of boring hungry discomfort mixed with brief bouts of pants-shitting terror is the actual post-apocalypse world. Miraculously clean hair, cute girls with make up, engine lubricants & un-evaporated fuel, convenient stockpiles of food, and no shortage of ammo is the fetish dream. But other people's game worlds evidently vary.

"This picture of the World Before is unrealistic! Everybody has clean hair!"

 

[Teotwawki]

I actually have a computer game about the siege of Sarajevo, but found that I couldn't bring myself to really play it. Post-apocalyptic survival games can be fun, but a game based on some fictional nonsense about zombies, or whatever, has a very different feel to one based on real events.

And while I've happily played games based on real life wars, in those you're typically playing a soldier or a general. Gamifying the life of a civilian just trying to survive felt oddly exploitative.

I understand that computer game (War of Mine) is quite well done, amazingly respectful, and donated some profits to War Child charity. While in comparison, Sniper Ghost Warrior 2: Sarajevo Urban Combat is an example of an exploitive and fetishized weekend warrior lust killing game. Then there is the ethical quandary of Spec Ops: The Line ... which is intentionally Conradian in encouraging the player to commit war crimes and then revealing the emotional and spiritual trauma of having done so. These opinions is from a non-VGer.

I first played T2k during the Siege. For what it's worth, gaming real life tragedies is, in my opinion, not morally "wrong" ... but personal ethics which speak otherwise are not something to be questioned by another. Not to go too academic about it, but Theodor Adorno wrote in 1949 that "to write a poem after Auschwitz is barbaric." Sarajevan film director Danis Tanović referenced that quote in saying that "If there can be no poetry after the Holocaust, there can be no art of any kind after Sarajevo." Of course, he, like most Sarajevans who survived, have made art from gruesome tragedy. Games can be literature and art. Literature and art holds an inimical power against authoritarianism; it invites and encourages the habit of moral reflection.

Reflecting upon our own morals and ethics is how morals and ethics get exercised. Without exercise, our morals and ethics can grow weak and dogmatic.

Personal advice: Don't let someone else, especially people who have not experienced such situations, tell you that it's morally wrong to game real life events. Likewise, don't let anyone (including me) convince you to game a setting you find to be problematic. Being pushed a bit out of your comfort zone is sometimes a very, very good thing. And a great thing about games and art and fiction is that we can experience such discomfort in relative safety. Films like Come and See or Mississippi Burning show us real life horrors so that we might learn how to not inflict them upon each other anymore. But too few people assimilate such lessons.

Maybe some of this is worth two pennies, depending on local exchange rate.

 

[Teotwawki]

"This picture of the World Before is unrealistic! Everybody has clean hair!"

While I absolutely appreciate the apropos sarcasm, the World Before would indeed have people with clean hair. However, the World After would not necessarily. If we-as-audience are shown how and why survivors have clean hair after their relevant apocalypse, it becomes part of their survival story. If they have clear hair and make up because... Hollywood... then it's hardly realistic, let alone authentic to the story setting. Compare Stephen Fingleton's 2015 film The Survivalist against almost all other apocalyptic movies.

Rhetorical apocalyptic questions: How come in most every zombie movies no one suffers from hepatitis, strep, meningococcus, etc al that would exist due to all the openly decaying bodies? How come no one has made the masterpiece waiting-to-happen of Walking Dead meets A Modest Proposal?

 

[Peter Von Danzig]

Nah, that's the last line. I'm referring to the previous sentence.

Sorry I was just geeking out on more history there....

 

[Peter Von Danzig]

I once got to hold and leaf through an incunabula. The colors of the illustrations were just as bright and vibrant as they were hundreds of years ago. If I hadn't been in a rare book room at a university library, I would have sworn it was a modern creation.

Yes I have seen some too. You have to be careful with some of the colored illustrations, for example yellow and orange can be made of orpiment which has a lot of arsenic in it....

 

[Lofgeornost]

I once got to hold and leaf through an incunabula. The colors of the illustrations were just as bright and vibrant as they were hundreds of years ago. If I hadn't been in a rare book room at a university library, I would have sworn it was a modern creation.

The oldest text I've ever got to lay my hands on was an original printing of Johnson's dictionary (1755) that my university had. These days you can look it up online, and enjoy entries such as that for 'oats'.

I've spent more time than I care to think about looking at charters and various legal records, mainly from the 12th-13th centuries, though I've dealt with a few documents from before 1100. Some were in absolutely fine shape and very legible, once one learned the paleography. Others not so much, depending on the vagaries of storage conditions over the centuries. These were almost all written on vellum or other parchments, not paper, of course.

One of the more frustrating experiences in that regard was a file of writs I once examined in the British Public Record Office, back when you accessed them in the lovely Victorian round room in central London. These writs were 'filed' by being bored through at the top and then arranged on a short cord. The cord was clearly not original (it was modern string) and every time I moved one of the writs it cut somewhat into its top, enlarging the hole. I asked for permission to untie the cord and spread the documents out to avoid this damage. Despite my heartfelt promises to keep them in original order (which had been marked on them, probably in the nineteenth century, in pencil anyway) I wasn't allowed to do so. I cringed every time I turned over one of those writs.

 

[Peter Von Danzig]

I first played T2k during the Siege. For what it's worth, gaming real life tragedies is, in my opinion, not morally "wrong" ... but personal ethics which speak otherwise are not something to be questioned by another. Not to go too academic about it, but Theodor Adorno wrote in 1949 that "to write a poem after Auschwitz is barbaric." Sarajevan film director Danis Tanović referenced that quote in saying that "If there can be no poetry after the Holocaust, there can be no art of any kind after Sarajevo." Of course, he, like most Sarajevans who survived, have made art from gruesome tragedy. Games can be literature and art. Literature and art holds an inimical power against authoritarianism; it invites and encourages the habit of moral reflection.

That's quite interesting, I'm not up on the latest acronyms but if T2K is Twilight 2000, I played that back in the 80s with friends in my unit in West Germany, at a time of very heightened fear and tension (among soldiers in Theater anyway, I don't think as much for the people back in the States) of the possibility of imminent war and apocalypse. We were playing with real maps and a lot of inside information about resources and so on, enough that it attracted the attention of some some military intel people at one point and we had to stop playing for a while. I found it helped me cope with my own fear and stress at the time.

On the other hand, i can't watch any film about Katrina, they all feel fake to me, and I find myself rolling my eyes at almost all post apocalyptic films, which I think kind of fetishize the idea in a very unrealistic and implausible way.

Reflecting upon our own morals and ethics is how morals and ethics get exercised. Without exercise, our morals and ethics can grow weak and dogmatic.

Personal advice: Don't let someone else, especially people who have not experienced such situations, tell you that it's morally wrong to game real life events. Likewise, don't let anyone (including me) convince you to game a setting you find to be problematic. Being pushed a bit out of your comfort zone is sometimes a very, very good thing. And a great thing about games and art and fiction is that we can experience such discomfort in relative safety. Films like Come and See or Mississippi Burning show us real life horrors so that we might learn how to not inflict them upon each other anymore. But too few people assimilate such lessons.

There are a few other war films which are (almost) as honest as Come and See but they don't usually resonate very well. Saving Private Ryan was realistic for the first ten minutes and then reverted to the usual tropes. Which is why it sold. The first ten minutes were for the veterans, the rest was for the paying audience.

Maybe some of this is worth two pennies, depending on local exchange rate.

Definitely is to me...

 

[Peter Von Danzig]

While I absolutely appreciate the apropos sarcasm, the World Before would indeed have people with clean hair. However, the World After would not necessarily.

Very true! I think it says a lot about our current popular culture that we invariably depict the past, and the lives of our own ancestors as filthy, backward, slow plodding, impossibly difficult, hopelessly ignorant, and generally lacking in any prospects; while we depict post apocalyptic societies as clean, fun, brisk, relatively easy to get by (until the zombies show up), fast-moving, and full of adventure.

I think the fetish for the apocalypse is pretty creepy to be honest. I have a theory about zombies and vampires though...

If we-as-audience are shown how and why survivors have clean hair after their relevant apocalypse, it becomes part of their survival story. If they have clear hair and make up because... Hollywood... then it's hardly realistic, let alone authentic to the story setting. Compare Stephen Fingleton's 2015 film The Survivalist against almost all other apocalyptic movies.

I'll have to look for that one

Rhetorical apocalyptic questions: How come in most every zombie movies no one suffers from hepatitis, strep, meningococcus, etc al that would exist due to all the openly decaying bodies? How come no one has made the masterpiece waiting-to-happen of Walking Dead meets A Modest Proposal?

And just basic sepsis. Nobody ever seems to notice a smell. Nobody seems to worry about food. Nobody seems to have any trouble finding clean water. nobody seems to suffer from the weather (all the Zompoc films and shows seem to perpetually exist in early fall or late spring). All very challenging things historically!

 

[AsenRG]

While I absolutely appreciate the apropos sarcasm, the World Before would indeed have people with clean hair. However, the World After would not necessarily.

Actually, my point was - unclearly conveyed, alas - that in the World After the clean hair would be seen as something that only happens rarely. And we all know how prone our contemporaries are to calling things "unrealistic" because they don't fit their understanding of the world.

Like, abstaining from possibly political examples, think of the people who speak at length about infested wounds.
Nobody reacts when I explain that yes, our ancestors knew how to deal with those using simple homemade recipes. I've tested one of those when a wound on my knee had pus in it (and it was late at night, and I didn't fancy a late walk in winter).

Bottom line: I didn't have pus in my knee by the morning. (The recipe is, BTW, honey and flour with just enough water to mix them to a paste).

Rhetorical apocalyptic questions: How come in most every zombie movies no one suffers from hepatitis, strep, meningococcus, etc al that would exist due to all the openly decaying bodies? How come no one has made the masterpiece waiting-to-happen of Walking Dead meets A Modest Proposal?

I tried running a PA game one. The players were kinda surprised at the need to stock medicine and make alliances...which resulted in a TPK.

Sorry I was just geeking out on more history there....

No need to be sorry, I really appreciate you posting this. I just found it funny due to how it compares to our society.

Very true! I think it says a lot about our current popular culture that we invariably depict the past, and the lives of our own ancestors as filthy, backward, slow plodding, impossibly difficult, hopelessly ignorant, and generally lacking in any prospects; while we depict post apocalyptic societies as clean, fun, brisk, relatively easy to get by (until the zombies show up), fast-moving, and full of adventure.

Yup, it is funny. If anything, it's the other way around, IMO...or possibly "plus ça change, plus c'est le même".

I think the fetish for the apocalypse is pretty creepy to be honest. I have a theory about zombies and vampires though...

My pet theory is how zombies and vampires own their popularity to being like MTV stars and their fans...

And just basic sepsis. Nobody ever seems to notice a smell. Nobody seems to worry about food. Nobody seems to have any trouble finding clean water. nobody seems to suffer from the weather (all the Zompoc films and shows seem to perpetually exist in early fall or late spring). All very challenging things historically!

Well, zombies have very little open skin to bite in winter!

 

[Peter Von Danzig]

Just think how hard it is to stay warm in most of the United States during winter! Who is going to chop all that wood.... where is the fireplace or stove and what happens when refugees (or zombies?) see the smoke...

My theory on vampires and zombies is that vampires (the romantic / cool / fun kind portrayed in a lot of media and some games) are the zombies from their own perspective, while zombies are vampires from the ostensible victims perspective.

Like the zombies think they are beautiful and romantic, and downplay the 'need to feed' on humans, one never thinks about smells of rotting flesh of the undead etc. But if you aren't already 'infected', the rose colored glasses fall away...

 

[Peter Von Danzig]

Maybe some other people with military experience will relate to this (maybe not) - but another thing which bugs me about Zompoc films and shows is that the people, particularly the military and the more organized communities, always seem completely hopeless in dealing with the zombies. Fortifications consist of chain link fences or a ten foot high corrugated metal wall. Sandbags at ground level. Etc.

One of the things years of study of military history has taught me, is that once a war gets going for a while, people tend to become fiendishly cunning. First, there is a lot of ineptitude. Soon, people perfect the easiest ways to kill. Then, as surviving veterans learn the hard way, and people adjust tactics, strategy, and gear, all the easy ways of killing the enemy stop working after a while. Then everyone becomes much more sneaky and devilish in their plans, and everything has to be raised to another level of sophistication in order to survive and have any hope of being able to prevail. .

Zombies however, if they aren't intelligent, will always be in the 'easy to kill' mode, arguably. So if anyone survives long enough to adjust to the problem, they should become very efficient at taking them out (if history is any guide). Maybe some real fortifications, designed to lure and / or channel them into a particular spot that is already a TRP for mortars or artillery (or even say, offshore naval guns) would seem like a way to just wipe out vast numbers of zombies. Proper fortifications should be able to keep them out. Artillery and mortars are not one of the weapons that Hollywood seems to be aware of, but it seems like that would be an easy way to dispose of the hordes.

I guess I'm one of those 'party poopers' who fails to engage with this genre any more, basically because it's just so implausible or internally consistent that I just can't suspend disbelief by say, the second act of a film, or the third episode of a series...

 

[Sharrow]

Very true! I think it says a lot about our current popular culture that we invariably depict the past, and the lives of our own ancestors as filthy, backward, slow plodding, impossibly difficult, hopelessly ignorant, and generally lacking in any prospects; while we depict post apocalyptic societies as clean, fun, brisk, relatively easy to get by (until the zombies show up), fast-moving, and full of adventure.

I think the fetish for the apocalypse is pretty creepy to be honest. I have a theory about zombies and vampires though...

Apparently The Apocalypse has employed some cleaners since I played post-apoc games in the 80s.

Of course, in a zombie apocalypse once you've cleaned the zombies out there's a whole lot of stuff lying round for the taking, and most such games are set during or right after the apocalypse, so things haven't had time to rust, get overgrown, or run out yet. There's a country full of supermarkets full of soap, shampoo, makeup, toothpaste, breath freshner, and deodorants still there for the using (maybe that's how zombies find the living so easily - they just follow the scent of modern hygiene products).

Twenty years, or 200 years after (the two times recommended in Aftermath!) anything but recently made soap (with local herbs for fragrance if you're lucky) is going to be in really, really short supply (20-years) or long gone (200-years). Which doesn't mean people won't be as clean as their jobs allow, of course. Just not generally with great hair.

And just basic sepsis. Nobody ever seems to notice a smell. Nobody seems to worry about food. Nobody seems to have any trouble finding clean water. nobody seems to suffer from the weather (all the Zompoc films and shows seem to perpetually exist in early fall or late spring). All very challenging things historically!

Zombie shows, like horror, are full of people with no sense of smell, or touch, terrible hearing, and tunnel vision.

 

[Sharrow]

Maybe some other people with military experience will relate to this (maybe not) - but another thing which bugs me about Zompoc films and shows is that the people, particularly the military and the more organized communities, always seem completely hopeless in dealing with the zombies. Fortifications consist of chain link fences or a ten foot high corrugated metal wall. Sandbags at ground level. Etc.

They are also terrible at quarantines. Which is daft because it's something the military should be good at once any need to 'be nice' has gone along with the media and civil government. Ask some experts, enact their recommendations, allow no exceptions. Give your troops training in the procedures and orders to effect them, and as long as discipline holds, you're good.

And yet, somehow, very often the military are shown doing really dumb things, getting whole bases infected, etc.

 

[Peter Von Danzig]

I was a medic in the US Army, at a time when bio weapons were considered a real threat. Supposedly Warsaw pact had artillery shells full of Anthrax etc. just waiting for the balloon to go up. I bet we did too. They did for sure have contingencies for imposing draconian quarantine measures, and I suspect they would have worked. The military has a certain type of institutional stupidity, but when it comes to something like that, or say, obliterating hordes of mindless enemies, that's right in their wheelhouse.

Some of the early Zompoc films did a fairly good job of portraying or at least suggesting the kind of blunders and knack for institutional blindness that characterized the US military during the later Vietnam era. That's an aspect of where those films were at their best IMO, as a vehicle for social criticism. More recent ones strike me a bit more as soap operas, or in some cases of course comedies. Not all are bad of course.

How was Aftermath by the way, i always wondered about that game. I had made my own homebrew post apocalyptic game and named it the same thing,and I was a little non-plussed when I saw that there was a game called Aftermath in a catalog. I always wondered how good it was and if it was fun.

 

[ffilz]

No hunters or hikers, spelunkers or martial artists around? Soldiers and sailors? Thru hikers? Primitive campers? Archers or archeologists?

I’m a caver (we say cavers rescue spelunkers). I have sometimes used my knowledge of real caves in RPG play, but mostly, PC parties would hate exploring real caves. They much prefer "Star Trek" caves that have flat floors, and not much in the way of tight squeezes or low ceilings.

 

[Peter Von Danzig]

I’m a caver (we say cavers rescue spelunkers). I have sometimes used my knowledge of real caves in RPG play, but mostly, PC parties would hate exploring real caves. They much prefer "Star Trek" caves that have flat floors, and not much in the way of tight squeezes or low ceilings.

I did some (probably spelunking is more accurate than caving) as a kid at summer camp one year, and absolutely loved it. No two were alike. That is a whole vast subject for exploration and discussion without a doubt. Quite relevant in many historical periods as well.

I also did a fair amount of what is now called 'urbex' as a teenager later on, there not having any natural caves where I lived. Also really interesting to me at the time, but would probably be pretty boring for gamers as there were no kobolds or hobgoblins.

 

[Teotwawki]

On the other hand, i can't watch any film about Katrina, they all feel fake to me, and I find myself rolling my eyes at almost all post apocalyptic films, which I think kind of fetishize the idea in a very unrealistic and implausible way.

NOLA was where I first stayed when I moved to the US circa 1997. The Husband grew up on the Gulf Coast (in Mobile--Fredric '79 was his first hurricane) and lived for a while in New Orleans. We both visited 3-4 years after Katrina. Heartbreaking and hopeful. Heartbreaking to see modern carpetbagging. Hopeful in that the Quarter still never had a moment without music. A Top Three City of the World for me.

Our most recent feline child was with us for about a month before he attached a name to himself: Lagniappe; he's a little something extra just because...

 

[Peter Von Danzig]

Great name for a cat. A cat is always a little lagniappe.

 

[Sharrow]

How was Aftermath by the way, i always wondered about that game. I had made my own homebrew post apocalyptic game and named it the same thing,and I was a little non-plussed when I saw that there was a game called Aftermath in a catalog. I always wondered how good it was and if it was fun.

It had a highly detailed rules system, though as an early 80s game it's page count was small by today's standards. The task system was very good for the time, and still better than not a few today when it comes to extended tasks. Much is made of the combat flow-chart ("OMG! You need a flow-chart for combat!"), but if you put a whole bunch of modern, supposedly simpler, games' combat sequence and rules on a flow chart it would be nuts, because of the modern love of 'dinctinction by exception'.

It also had quite extensive 'sample' tables for what you might find when scavenging, and so on and decent rules for what condition stuff was in. It was very much a game about resources, finding them, managing their use, etc.

One handy thing the character sheet had was a list of 'slots' you could put gear in, so players couldn't claim everything was to hand on their belt - one's belt only had a certain amount of space.

The thirty hit locations were a bit of overkill though.

The authors wrote several other rpgs at the time (Bushido, Daredevils) using streamlined and customised versions of the same system. Later they were the primary authors of Shadowrun.

Here's a modern remake of the original charactersheet (same layout, original hit location manikin):

And yes, you started the game with 3d6 matches, etc. You also rolled to see how good your backpack (if any) was, and your basic clothing (which included details like how many pockets your clothes had). Getting trousers with large pockets and a good jacket with the same was a normal early goal if you rolled crap starting clothing. Also wet weather and cold weather kit - getting that before the GM declared it was winter was important, unless it was an Aussie based campaign (and the published campaigns were mostly set there because their author was an Aussie).

 

[AsenRG]

I've always wanted someone to explain me the Aftermath flowchart.

Also, I don't think zombies would fare for long against a modern army, and I mean "basically any modern army". Their appearance becoming an apocalypse at all is just a genre conceit, IMO.

Also, not that few people know how to make soap. It might take a few tries, but it's doable - and keeping clean is rather easier than dealing with stomach bugs!

 

[SJB]

I’m an academic and thus spend my life trying to avoid useful practical experience. I suppose I know how to write a book. I’ve mentioned before that I did the very early adaptations of Fighting Fantasy gamebooks for computers.

 

[E-Rocker]

I haven't done it for roughly a decade, but I did do Filipino martial arts for ~14 years, and one thing I discovered there from first-hands experience is that ambidextrousness can be learned.

 

[Peter Von Danzig]

Lots of FMA people in the HEMA world especially in the early days, the FMA drills are very helpful for learning the use of the off-hand weapon and also for footwork.

 

[Peter Von Danzig]

It had a highly detailed rules system, though as an early 80s game it's page count was small by today's standards. The task system was very good for the time, and still better than not a few today when it comes to extended tasks. Much is made of the combat flow-chart ("OMG! You need a flow-chart for combat!"), but if you put a whole bunch of modern, supposedly simpler, games' combat sequence and rules on a flow chart it would be nuts, because of the modern love of 'dinctinction by exception'.

It also had quite extensive 'sample' tables for what you might find when scavenging, and so on and decent rules for what condition stuff was in. It was very much a game about resources, finding them, managing their use, etc.

One handy thing the character sheet had was a list of 'slots' you could put gear in, so players couldn't claim everything was to hand on their belt - one's belt only had a certain amount of space.

The thirty hit locations were a bit of overkill though.

The authors wrote several other rpgs at the time (Bushido, Daredevils) using streamlined and customised versions of the same system. Later they were the primary authors of Shadowrun.

Here's a modern remake of the original charactersheet (same layout, original hit location manikin):

And yes, you started the game with 3d6 matches, etc. You also rolled to see how good your backpack (if any) was, and your basic clothing (which included details like how many pockets your clothes had). Getting trousers with large pockets and a good jacket with the same was a normal early goal if you rolled crap starting clothing. Also wet weather and cold weather kit - getting that before the GM declared it was winter was important, unless it was an Aussie based campaign (and the published campaigns were mostly set there because their author was an Aussie).

Quite interesting that these were the same people who developed Shadowrun. I played that a couple of times, it's not my favorite genre but I thought the combat system was quite interesting.

Can you elaborate on what you mean by 'distinction by exception' in game design?

 

[Ravenswing]

I guess I'm one of those 'party poopers' who fails to engage with this genre any more, basically because it's just so implausible or internally consistent that I just can't suspend disbelief by say, the second act of a film, or the third episode of a series...

Beyond that, there's a certain staple to the post-apoc genre, going back sixty years or more: that there's often some Wise Throwback Farmer/Scholar/Visionary who patiently educates the survivors in, well, how to survive.

... and that the WTF isn't talking out of his ass. And even if he isn't, that the people listen to him (and it's almost always a "him," isn't it?), and not to the nearby charismatic blowhard who promises them ample crops, abundant game and clean water with half the effort.

Because, of course, this an era where people jump down amazing rabbit holes based on what populist rent-seekers, politicians and pretty social media "influencers" tell them to believe. One in which self-important bloviators are eager to pontificate about subjects upon which they're ignorant. Certainly not one in which people are willing to accept hard truths and sacrifice their own short-term comfort to make tough decisions.

Beyond that, there's another staple of post-apoc: that some/all of the protagonists survive and thrive. Except as cautionary one-offs, there's not much of a market out there for likes of On The Beach or Threads. Netflix isn't too likely any time soon to make a series in which the plucky survivors make all the right decisions, only to see that raging post-apoc pandemic/crop blight/nuclear winter to kill them all anyway.

 

[Ravenswing]

I'm not sure precisely what you are comparing to, but it sounds like you are a pretty hard core camper (a week midwinter in Maine is not a gentle experience). I don't think you need to be a winner of the last season of "Alone" in order to know useful and interesting things about sleeping out in the woods.

Hunting and gathering, making shelters etc. are a different and overlapping skillset. I don't think everyone in the pre-industrial world routinely camped alone with no gear or supplies.

Nope. But as a gaming resource, that kind of experience is limited. Except for games that are heavily into resource management, how much more do people want than a "Standard camping kit, 50 lbs, 100 silver pennies" entry on their character sheets, without which they take a penalty to survival rolls?

For those who want a bit more, here's a blogpost of mine on the subject: https://ravenswing59.blogspot.com/2021/07/the-survival-game-fantasy.html

 

[carpocratian]

I have a professional and educational background in the social sciences, tech (particularly programming and database work), education, children's entertainment/programming, storytelling, and librarianship.

I have a lot of hobbies and research interests, some of which grew out of professional involvement with things, and some of which are just things I enjoy. Those include the history of community formation among various sexual minority groups, animal behavior, horror fiction, puppetry, dolls and figurines, the history of magical beliefs and the development of scientific thought, folklore and mythology (many cultures), and a lot of other things. When you really get down to it, my biggest hobby/interest is doing deep, long dives into research on whatever catches my interest. I end up reading a lot of academic books and research papers, on various subjects.

I have done a fair amount of foreign travel, including working for short periods in Southeast Asia and Eastern Europe.

Edit: I have found that most of my interests and bits of knowledge come in handiest with games like Call of Cthulhu. Being a semi-professional storyteller has led me to develop improv skills that help with all rpgs, though.

 

[carpocratian]

Oh, also, I live in Chicago, and have done since June 2007. I know Chicago's a popular adventure location, so if you have questions about what real-life Chicago is like, I can probably answer those, too.

I am a librarian, too

 

[dragoner]

I could probably still assemble or do a malfunction check on an AK blindfolded. Otherwise, I wrote an sfrpg source book called Solis People of the Sun and a supplemental one Andromeda Dragons where spots has probably the most accurate star list, and maps in an rpg that I know of (there is a 3D map on blender by Justin Aquino that is also very accurate). I used sources such as simbad, and exokyoto to also make the star systems as accurate as possible while conforming to the Traveller/Cepheus Engine core rules.

 

[Sharrow]

Can you elaborate on what you mean by 'distinction by exception' in game design?

It's probably best exemplified by D&D4. The core system is really simple, and even the core rules for combat are quite straight-forward. However, then all these exceptions get layered on top. Everyone's powers, even quite basic attacks have an exception to the basic rules. Characters are made distinct, not by differences in strength or wit, or by different personalities, but by what powers (and thus exceptions to the rules) they have.

This makes the game seem simple to an initial read-through, and to players with beginning characters. However, it's really not, and for a GM running a game for a large group of high-level characters the level of system mastery required, and the sheer quantity of things they must know can be overwhelming. In this respect D&D4 is actually a poor example - it limits the number of powers a character can have at any one time, and it's fairly robust balance makes knowing them all less important for the GM. D&D3.5 with all splatbooks would be a good example of how all the exceptions and special rules can utterly overwhelm people.